UFOs, Paranormal, Pseudoscience Thread

[Old Man Mike]

Making guesses about non-human mental processes is pretty arrogant by me, so I'll say something here but say it with the assurance that I'm completely full of crap.

Here's a dollop of BS on that issue: the entirety of our experience with these objects points to the idea that who/whatever is behind the (now) 70-year-old phenomenon does not want to present a spectacular culture-shifting display, but create displays in more limited ways nevertheless. Why? I refuse to guess other than advanced societies would clearly know that invasive interaction essentially shuts down the inferior culture's individual evolution. "They" may not want to do that.

Individual UFO encounters can be extremely overt, while not crossing the line to become culture-shifting. Our own culture is so arrogant, prejudiced, fearful etc that you could do almost anything and still get full denial --- so "their" job might be easier with clowns like us.

Anyway, the phenomenon excels in avoiding patterned behaviors and predictability, while maintaining a robust presence. Quite brilliant in my estimate. But like I said, the "advanced" portions of our human race are so screwed by organizational restrictions, organizational biases, underlying profound fears about worldviews being fundamentally wrong et al, that we must seem to be a near-joke of a species compared to others they've studied.

 

[Irish#1]

Making guesses about non-human mental processes is pretty arrogant by me, so I'll say something here but say it with the assurance that I'm completely full of crap.

Here's a dollop of BS on that issue: the entirety of our experience with these objects points to the idea that who/whatever is behind the (now) 70-year-old phenomenon does not want to present a spectacular culture-shifting display, but create displays in more limited ways nevertheless. Why? I refuse to guess other than advanced societies would clearly know that invasive interaction essentially shuts down the inferior culture's individual evolution. "They" may not want to do that.

Individual UFO encounters can be extremely overt, while not crossing the line to become culture-shifting. Our own culture is so arrogant, prejudiced, fearful etc that you could do almost anything and still get full denial --- so "their" job might be easier with clowns like us.

Anyway, the phenomenon excels in avoiding patterned behaviors and predictability, while maintaining a robust presence. Quite brilliant in my estimate. But like I said, the "advanced" portions of our human race are so screwed by organizational restrictions, organizational biases, underlying profound fears about worldviews being fundamentally wrong et al, that we must seem to be a near-joke of a species compared to others they've studied.

I wouldn't call it arrogant, but more like an educated opinion based on your knowledge. Not disagreeing, but couldn't one argue that by only displaying in certain areas they are somewhat predictable? I agree our society isn't ready for a full display or encounter that paints a clearer picture.

One of my favorite Sci-Fi movies is the original "The Day The Earth Stood Still". It's basic theme is exactly what you described.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I assume that you mean nearly the opposite of what I'm describing --- i.e. Michael Rennie chooses to take the most overt culture-changing display location that he can.

And believe me, this phenomenon is NOT predictable. We've been trying to do that for decades and it sidesteps us every time.

 

[mudskipper2]

Michael Pollan’s book “ How to change your mind “ he states mushrooms are intelligent and trees communicate with one another

 

[Wild Bill]

UFO incident concentrations have never been worldwide at any era. "Flaps" occur, always somewhat geographically restricted. Specific flaps have limited themselves to the US, to Europe, to northern South America, to Australia/Tasmania, even to Antarctica. Some flaps are very localized; some smeared out.

This recent Navy stuff isn't even what we in the business would call a Flap. It is a series of very striking high credibility military sightings, which somehow are freely leaking out. The old Project Blue Book (then called SIGN or Grudge in 1947-1951) had all sorts of similar things reported by pilots to the USAF. (concentrations of incidents around White Sands/Alamagordo --- the scientists there set up their own reporting system --- nicknamed themselves "The Bird Watchers" , Oak Ridge, Hanford, Korea etc.) These incidents happened so often that the Chief of Intelligence of the Air Force had to issue a binding directive to ALL services as to how to handle reporting them. This directive had serious punishments specifically stated for violating this. If anyone doubts these statements, just get my and Robert Powell's book, UFOs and Government, it's in over 150 academic libraries the last I heard three years ago.

The breakthrough leakage in these recent encounters came partly because this CIA guy Elizondo got released from his project as it was (allegedly anyway) defunded. This allowed a pilot (Fravor) to leak his encounter. Robert Powell was on this before the hullaballoo began in the press, and he and his team have written a 270pp report, and spoke about it to the Huntsville AL rocket base personnel among other invitees (I couldn't make it because of my housemate's cancer and just me being old, but Robert and about 20 others will be here in Kalamazoo in three days for a weekend UFO "retreat" at my house.)

These cases are the real deal. We in the UFO study business have lots of such unexplainable cases and have had them for years. It is the moronic sociology of this country and academia which blocks our field of study from even getting an open listen. I have case files containing over a thousand incidents at least hundreds of which I defy any non-moron to give reasonable explanations for which do not involve technology beyond our current abilities.

But that's who "we" are. I am looking forward to a weekend talking with non-morons.

I can't recall if you mentioned it earlier in this thread, if I read it somewhere else, or if I'm completely off here - is there a pattern of sightings near nuclear facilities and our military bases?

Do you have any reason to believe our military has been aggressively engaged by a UFO or that we engaged a UFO? Obviously that wouldn't be public info but you seem to know quite a bit on the topic and was just curious if that is something you've explored.

According to the pilot in the article, a UFO flew between two of our jets and there was a near mid air collision. If that's the case, it seems almost probable that an incident has occurred or will occur in the future.

I appreciate your posts on this stuff. Interesting stuff.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Let me take the questions one at a time:

1. Captain Edward Ruppelt, chief of Project Blue Book 1951-53, made a map for the USAF Pentagon staff in early 1952 showing that there was a concentration of sightings near USA nuclear facilities in that early era. This obviously worried them. That particular overabundance got swamped by the huge numbers of sightings which occurred thereafter in the 52, 54, 57, and mid/late 60s waves.

There is a current researcher named Hastings who still believes that there are overabundances of such "nuclear area" sightings. I'm not so convinced that this is true today.

2. The brief answer is "no." We don't have anything like that in our policies nor our documents. Occasional cases have occurred, but these tend to be in warzone areas like Korea. Here a "bogie" is naturally presumed to be a potential dangerous enemy. UFOs have very little record of having acted aggressively in any violent fashion. There are cases where they did something seeming to show what they can do (like literally flying circles around jets, or shining a beam into a cockpit) but there are to my knowledge no cases of collision despite many reports of close passes. USAF considered a SHOOT order in, I believe, 1952 or shortly thereafter, but that was deemed a bad idea, especially over US soil. Ed Ruppelt was told of an incident of a pilot who fired on a UFO without direct orders and was reprimanded but the incident kept quiet.

3. Dr. Richard Haines of NASA Ames had a project (not part of NASA) which collected pilot cases on the grounds that these sorts of things could be air safety hazards. No such incident was ever logged, despite many outstanding in-air encounters collected by Haines' organization.

 

[Irish#1]

I assume that you mean nearly the opposite of what I'm describing --- i.e. Michael Rennie chooses to take the most overt culture-changing display location that he can.

And believe me, this phenomenon is NOT predictable. We've been trying to do that for decades and it sidesteps us every time.

I wasn’t clear enough. My point about The Day The Earth Stood Still was that the citizenship couldn’t handle a large display or presence as you described.

 

[Old Man Mike]

true. That concern is specifically stated in released documents of that era.

 

[nlroma1o]

Bob Lazar was on Joe Rogan last week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEWz4SXfyCQ&t=7429s

 

[Old Man Mike]

Really don't like the role of "policeman" here, but Lazar is a widely discredited fraud and con-man throughout the serious and even semi-serious UFO community. He's even a nasty one capable of involvement in pornography schemes (installing covert video in brothels --- sentenced and ordered to psychotherapy) and direct cash taking lies about promised tech breakthroughs with no glimmering of coming through on them (to the then-naive Vegas billionaire Bob Bigelow.)

{{I was loosely employed by Bigelow as a UFO consultant just after this latter incident. ... my consultancy fees went to The Center for UFO Studies to try to keep it afloat in an age of rejection of on-the-ground citizen organizations by people wanting free information on the internet; almost none of the small group independents survived the Internet Effect. Bigelow was a very tough guy to work with, but he wanted to be at the edge of UFO knowledge so badly that he was vulnerable to scams like Lazar's.}}

 

[nlroma1o]

Really don't like the role of "policeman" here, but Lazar is a widely discredited fraud and con-man throughout the serious and even semi-serious UFO community. He's even a nasty one capable of involvement in pornography schemes (installing covert video in brothels --- sentenced and ordered to psychotherapy) and direct cash taking lies about promised tech breakthroughs with no glimmering of coming through on them (to the then-naive Vegas billionaire Bob Bigelow.)

{{I was loosely employed by Bigelow as a UFO consultant just after this latter incident. ... my consultancy fees went to The Center for UFO Studies to try to keep it afloat in an age of rejection of on-the-ground citizen organizations by people wanting free information on the internet; almost none of the small group independents survived the Internet Effect. Bigelow was a very tough guy to work with, but he wanted to be at the edge of UFO knowledge so badly that he was vulnerable to scams like Lazar's.}}

Police away! I insist. I find all of this fascinating, and just saw the podcast, so I thought I would drop it into this thread. Is there any truth to any of his story? Such as the element not being discovered/acknowledged yet? The one really interesting line he said, that left me saying, "I've never heard that one before" was his comment that he thought he heard someone at the base say one of the crafts was found on an archaeological dig. Meaning it was possible from a previous undiscovered lost civilization. Everyone is always thinking they come from outer space.

 

[Old Man Mike]

His claims of a super-heavy element have no back-up support scientifically or even hinted at anywhere. What little he BS's about seems unlikely for an element at that atomic weight.

Any random comment about "archaeological digs" almost has to be another sloppy reference to Roswell, where it has been (long) claimed that one of two Roswellian saucers was stumbled upon by an archaeological team in the Corona/Magdalena area north of Roswell. Their alleged discovery was not a dig, but bumping into a crash which either already or shortly thereafter was dominated by Army units barrier-ing it off.

 

[IrishLion]

I think this is the fourth different version of this story that I’ve seen in the past year or two...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It isn’t a question of whether humankind will have to confront the prospect of a destructive asteroid hurtling our way; it is only a question of when <a href="https://t.co/TGNdgk6PBr">https://t.co/TGNdgk6PBr</a></p>— The Wall Street Journal (@WSJ) <a href="https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1147709336317300736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 7, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

THEY. ARE. CONDITIONING. US.

Some big space news is coming. Impending doom? Alien technology heading for us? Both?

 

[Legacy]

UFO Festival in Roswell is finishing up. Any of these speakers legit? https://www.roswellufomuseum.com/

Speakers schedules. https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/87f0bd_0682b4bc6fc14f30af2b3466f9fa9eed.pdf

 

[BobbyMac]

UFO Festival in Roswell is finishing up. Any of these speakers legit? https://www.roswellufomuseum.com/

Speakers schedules. https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/87f0bd_0682b4bc6fc14f30af2b3466f9fa9eed.pdf

Holy Schmokes!

I just clicked on their link and saw Stanton Friedman died. How in the hell did I miss that??? Then again, I've been working adult hours and going to bed by 10p which means I haven't heard Coast to Coast in over 6 months.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I can't characterize all of those speakers, but here's a partial rundown of opinion:

1. Don Schmitt --- close personal friend so I'm biased. Don makes errors by being too involved with the Roswell chase for too long and intensely. In my opinion, he is the Roswell expert however.
2. Tom Carey --- Don's tagalong posse now that Kevin Randle isn't traveling anymore. Tom and I don't like each other --- I'll leave it there.
3. Kevin Randle --- Don's former partner and the world's second leading expert on Roswell. Kevin is a bit more conservative than Don, and a friend.
4. Mike Bara --- a nut but not too serious of one as far as I know. Believes in alien civilizations on the Moon and Mars.
5. Travis Walton --- very famous witness allegedly taken on board a craft in the mountains of Arizona. Most of these stories are obvious bunkum, but this one just might have a shot at truth. I've heard him talk, as did Dr. Hynek. He's different than the obvious nutjobs.
6. Derrel Sims --- another nut case.
7. Don Burleson --- some of his work isn't bad, but connecting UFOs with Marilyn Monroe is a stunning howler.
8. Frank Kimbler --- geology prof from NMTech. Good scientist. Tried to archaeologically sift some of the Foster Ranch "crashsite" north of Roswell for unusual materials. Found a few unconvincing things, but didn't react in overboard way. Interesting fellow.
9. Yvonne Smith --- nice person who wants to help people. She has bought into the Hopkins/Jacobs CE4 scenario totally however (when I last knew her anyway) and so, in my mind, is chasing a very large red herring.

If I were there, I'd show-the-flag for Don and Kevin, listen to Kimbler and Walton and go out for lunch during the rest of it. ...... but what do I know?

Concerning Friedman --- ever since he jumped on the (stupid) MJ-12 bandwagon, he was an impediment to Roswell investigation. His ego was planetary in size and he would not openly cooperate (particularly with Don and Kevin) in information sharing. I chaired a "secret" conference featuring a face-down between the two schools of Roswell thought (the Moore/Friedman/Plains of San Agustin school vs the Schmitt/Randle/Rodeghier Foster Ranch plus school.) Friedman deliberately withheld evidence there, but fortunately a more open-minded friend from "their side" immediately handed over the missing audiotape.) Later in years, he mellowed at least enough where he could have civilized collegial discussions with Schmitt and they were on pretty good terms when he died.


On the asteroid crash thing --- very old news, and nothing to do with aliens nor hidden agendas. The only hidden agenda ever connected here was the governmental push for "bombs-in-space" (Reaganesque thinking) using destroying rogue asteroids as an excuse. If we could ever trust politicians/warmongers to keep the weapons pointed away from Earth, it wouldn't be a bad idea. Note: we cannot trust that.

 

[koonja]

I recently watched the Bob Lazard doc on Netflix. Ans followed it up with the Bob Lazar Joe Rogan.


Hmmmm. Wow.

 

[Meatloaf]

I recently watched the Bob Lazard doc on Netflix. Ans followed it up with the Bob Lazar Joe Rogan.


Hmmmm. Wow.

Just watched the documentary. The only thing I came away with is that Bob Lazar is a pathological liar.

 

[shortynd01]

There is exteresstial life out there. The government knows it and covers it up. If exposed, religions around Earth would be exposed. Money would be lost and religious zealots would be exposed.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

There is exteresstial life out there. The government knows it and covers it up. If exposed, religions around Earth would be exposed. Money would be lost and religious zealots would be exposed.

post more

 

[Irish#1]

There is exteresstial life out there. The government knows it and covers it up. If exposed, religions around Earth would be exposed. Money would be lost and religious zealots would be exposed.

Or it could drive more to religion.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

There is exteresstial life out there. The government knows it and covers it up. If exposed, religions around Earth would be exposed. Money would be lost and religious zealots would be exposed.

Do they know what Davonte did?

 

[Old Man Mike]

... and you can hear the brain cells dying all over IE.

 

[Irish#1]

Bob Lazard. Notice you only see the hand. Those aliens are sneaky.

 

[IrishLion]

It would be hilarious to me if thousands of people actually show up to storm Area 51 on September 20, and all the guards are just like "come on in" and then the people see that there's nothing in there but some old planes and some mops, and they have coffee and donuts set out for everyone that say "I Want To Believe" on the icing.

 

[Irish#1]

It would be hilarious to me if thousands of people actually show up to storm Area 51 on September 20, and all the guards are just like "come on in" and then the people see that there's nothing in there but some old planes and some mops, and they have coffee and donuts set out for everyone that say "I Want To Believe" on the icing.

Air Force has sent out a warning.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Area 51 isn't even where we test our most sensitive, sophisticated stuff anymore. They moved that to another area.

 

[IrishLion]

Area 51 isn't even where we test our most sensitive, sophisticated stuff anymore. They moved that to another area.

Idk about testing the sophisticated stuff, but I know the alien technology is *allegedly* all at Wright-Patterson AFB.

These folks are planning on storming the wrong base if they want to make friends with aliens.

 

[NDBoiler]

It would be hilarious to me if thousands of people actually show up to storm Area 51 on September 20, and all the guards are just like "come on in" and then the people see that there's nothing in there but some old planes and some mops, and they have coffee and donuts set out for everyone that say "I Want To Believe" on the icing.

I say let them try it. Would be a great way to “thin out the herd” with the old Darwin Award

 

[RDU Irish]

Idk about testing the sophisticated stuff, but I know the alien technology is *allegedly* all at Wright-Patterson AFB.

These folks are planning on storming the wrong base if they want to make friends with aliens.

My uncle picked up a lot of frequent flier miles in the 70s/80s going from Omaha to Lawrence Livermore in CA - pretty sure that is where, on some supposedly top secret stuff. He was a physics prof by trade and a bit of a UFO researcher on the side. He never admitted if any of his work was related to UFOs or not but we always suspected it sparked his interest in the side work.