UFOs, Paranormal, Pseudoscience Thread

IrishLion

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calvegas04 said:
same here, love hearing how creative these stories can be
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tenor.gif
 
Irish#1

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Irish YJ said:
If/When something finally goes public from the gov, or if something happens that makes things crystal clear (that the gov can not splain away), one of my biggest curiosities will be the impact to religions, and the response from heads of religion.
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"It's God's Will".

Irish YJ said:
It certainly doesn't invalidate them automatically, but it would raise a lot of questions. There is no doubt that first contact would bring a lot of new revelation and call into question many things. What would be very interesting in itself, is how our new neighbors would view the concept of religion. Do they have similar concepts, or not at all.
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Or, maybe they are God!
 
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BobbyMac

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koonja said:
Any telescope junkies out there?

I've been considering getting one for a few years, and we finally moved out enough where we have a really good platform for viewing.
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Damn, I missed the... Building an observation deck thread?
 
Section20Row27

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koonja

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NDCrusader said:
Damn, I missed the... Building an observation deck thread?
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Our new place is about 25 miles out of the city.

Didn't build it, but I have a big 'ole deck. It's 30 x 18. I catch my neighbors wife always looking at my deck.

My wife doesn't really care about my deck.
 
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BobbyMac

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koonja said:
Our new place is about 25 miles out of the city.

Didn't build it, but I have a big 'ole deck. (So we've heard)

It's 30 x 18. (SAE or Metric?)

I catch my neighbors wife always looking at my deck. (Are you thinking she wants to apply a coating on it? Depending on her schedule next month, she may try to stain it. I'd wait a week and opt for the clearcoat.

My wife doesn't really care about my deck. (Girlfriend --> Wife --> Mother of your children... ah yes, the downhill scenario. But don't worry, the kids will be off to college in no time and one day out of no where you'll come home and she'll be dressed head to toe in black leather, holding a whip and assorted other goodies. You'll have 5 seconds to disrobe or she'll become the Chief Deck Inspector for the Greater Minneapolis/St Paul Metro area)
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.
 
Old Man Mike

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if you're serious about this then the best way to get a very good telescope is to locate a "local" amateur astronomers club. These people are always trying to upgrade the power of their systems and thereby selling off really good "lesser" equipment. Buying someone's used telescope is one of the few can't-miss second hand purchases if you know at all what you're doing.
 
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koonja

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Old Man Mike said:
if you're serious about this then the best way to get a very good telescope is to locate a "local" amateur astronomers club. These people are always trying to upgrade the power of their systems and thereby selling off really good "lesser" equipment. Buying someone's used telescope is one of the few can't-miss second hand purchases if you know at all what you're doing.
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Thanks OMM. I am serious about this. I live near minneapolis so I imagine they have a club. Thanks for the tip!
 
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I've been researching and here's what I understand in comparing these telescopes.

Both essentially the same, but one comes with a table set up (seems inconvenient) and the other a traditional tripod. The scope is the same, but the lens are different, which results in different magnification if I'm understanding this correctly.

450 Focal Length of the scope, and lens FL of 17mm and 6mm. Using the calculation, I get 27x magnification (450/17mm) and 75x (450/6mm).

Am I understanding this correctly? What is the aperture then (114mm on this piece)? And is that good for this price?

https://www.amazon.com/Orion-10015-...&qid=1542722450&sr=8-4&keywords=4.5+telescope


Then this one is essentially the same scope, but the lens is different. I'm wondering if this is worth getting instead.

450 Focal Length of scope. But the lens are 25mm and 10mm. So this gives me magnification of 18x and 45x, but it has a 2x shorty zoom, so the magnification is actually 36x and 90x making it more powerful than the above.

https://www.amazon.com/Orion-StarBl..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=N7738ZYJ1GJW2QGPDZE3

The last one I'm looking at (and know less about) is this one. It claims a focal length of 1,000 mm, which seems fraudulent because that's huge. So I'm skeptical of this one, but it seems like it may be a good deal.

https://www.amazon.com/Celestron-31...450&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=4.5+telescope&psc=1
 
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nlroma1o

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Project Blue Book show on History channel premiered tonight. First episode was entertaining. I imagine it is not very accurate, but its a fun watch.
 
Irish YJ

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nlroma1o said:
Project Blue Book show on History channel premiered tonight. First episode was entertaining. I imagine it is not very accurate, but its a fun watch.
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watching it now on the DVR.
thumbs up so far.
 
Old Man Mike

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I'll watch the tape.

Since I literally wrote a book about Blue Book, and have Captain Edward Ruppelt's files in my basement archive, I should be able to competently critique this (even if people PROPERLY don't think I know what I'm talking about vis-a-vis football. :=})
 
nlroma1o

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If OMM is watching and providing his expertise, we should live chat the episodes! Even more excited for this now!
 
Irish#1

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Old Man Mike said:
I'll watch the tape.

Since I literally wrote a book about Blue Book, and have Captain Edward Ruppelt's files in my basement archive, I should be able to competently critique this (even if people PROPERLY don't think I know what I'm talking about vis-a-vis football. :=})
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Excellent

Young people are always smarter. amirite? Once they get up in age, they'll change their mind. lol
 
NDohio

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Old Man Mike said:
I'll watch the tape.

Since I literally wrote a book about Blue Book, and have Captain Edward Ruppelt's files in my basement archive, I should be able to competently critique this (even if people PROPERLY don't think I know what I'm talking about vis-a-vis football. :=})
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Welp, this will get me to watch it now. Look forward to your critique.
 
Old Man Mike

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Ok folks; I watched my DVD of this. I'm going to belabor you with information, figuring that you can always click off if it's too much. But first a few bottom lines:

1. This is pretty good television, but not much of a "Faction" piece. That is, if I had to give a percentage of accuracy it would be way under 10%.
2. Do I have a right to critique this? It's up to you to judge, but I knew Allen Hynek and Mimi Hynek personally (though not as well as some of my close research associates did), worked for Hynek's Center for UFO Studies many years, and have, as I said, Ed Ruppelt's files, and have a personal file of the George Gorman "Fargo, ND Dogfight" that is over 100pp thick --- this was a very famous 1948 case.

A. The TV show is loosely based on the Gorman case. What happened in that case is that Lt. George Gorman (here called "Fuller") was returning to land when confronted by an unknown (in his opinion) white sphere which was "round and somewhat flat". It's odd motions made him investigate, but he couldn't keep up with the thing's maneuverability. There were times of chasing the thing, times of being out-circled by the thing, and times when it seemed to Gorman to be just toying with him. Other witnesses existed to the "dogfight" (but only a straight line flight part) on the ground and in the field tower.

B. This incident occurred in 1948, and was investigated then. The opinion of the USAF at the time was that Gorman had his dogfight with a balloon. Some records of a balloon release were found, but that explanation was never really followed through with actual data on wind direction and launch observations, so the explanation was put into record as a guess as it seemed the simplest one. Gorman didn't believe it, nor did the others in the tower.

C. It was not Blue Book but its predecessor Project SIGN that investigated the case. Hynek was not involved even though he was just being hired out of Ohio State to do a paper work job of reading case files (not traveling to North Dakota) and evaluating them for possible Astronomical explanations. His report, the astronomy section of the Project's final report in 1949 (now called Project Grudge), suggested "no astronomical explanation" (his job) but also likely balloon close pass (not his job.)

D. When Captain Ruppelt took over the now named Project Blue Book (names changed when the task would go in and out of favor), he decided that the Gorman case was interesting, but, to my records, no new trip to North Dakota occurred, and certainly not with Hynek --- after finishing his paper study in 1949, Hynek went back to his astronomy job, until being hired by Ruppelt in early 1952 as a semi-permanent consultant. Ruppelt for some reason retained a true interest in the Gorman case, getting notary public testimony on record after he retired from Blue Book. This later testimony is dated 1955.

So.... now the "insider" stuff most of which is bogus: I'll just list this.
1. Gorman did not deliberately buzz a ball game, but did chase the object over it. He certainly didn't fire at it over US soil --- a court martial offense without high orders --- since he was National Guard I'm not sure that his plane was equipped to fire. Gorman did not spin out nor crash but landed safely and normally at the airfield. There was no collision.

2. The scene with the big wigs worrying about civilian emotions could represent something which might have occurred, as it has precisely the USAF and CIA concerns voiced by the so-called Robertson Panel of early 1953. Gorman's case however provided no role in that top secret meeting (of which we have the proceedings.) (Hynek attended.)

3. Ed Ruppelt (called Michael Quinn in the show) did not have pictures of aliens in his office. His "office" was a shared space in the ATIC HQ building on Wright-Pat AFB, and his desk was beside the one with intel officer keeping track of Soviet MIG reports.

4. The actor does look a bit like the young Hynek, but the actress is prettier than Mimi --- though I thought that Mimi was nice looking and very nice --- their son Paul would not have yet been born, let alone be polluting Dad's files with Flash Gordon comics.

5. Allen would not have resisted the USAFs offer of a paid consultancy for a second. That is how almost all young astronomers made ends meet.

6. Ruppelt didn't smoke. No idea why they did that --- maybe the actor needed a crutch.

7. Hynek's involvement with satellite tracking cameras didn't start until the later 1950s and the money came through Harvard, not OSU.

8. Project SIGN DID send officers to Fargo, ND in 1948 to test Gorman's plane for enhanced counts of radiation. They DID find enhanced readings, but nowhere near dangerous ones.

9. The Close Encounters of the Third Kind "communication by music" is (sadly) bogus.

10. Ruppelt more or less invented the term "unidentified flying object" not Allen.

11. Needless to say at this point, the entire episode in Dakota (Hynek's presence, test flight, second crash, Gorman sequestering and mental problems) is entirely fiction.

12. Allen driving back home following an MIB into an outwardly derelict facility where some musical and numerical codes are going on, is so far out of Allen's naturally Scaredy Cat personality that all of us who knew him would LOL immediately. Allen believed that UFO research was best done over a good meal with a glass of wine.

13. The idea of a blonde Soviet undercover spy would be quite "normal" for the era, though it never happened with either Mimi nor Allen, and would be better timed to 1947-50 and around nuclear-related installations.

14. the black-and-white post-drama trailer was fairly accurate on the Gorman case, but even there the writers couldn't resist the invention of BS. The last phrase was saying that Gorman (never sequestered nor injected etc) never spoke of his incident again, is utterly false. Dr. Jim McDonald interviewed him in 1970 for instance. Gorman did say that for several years following the incident he did not talk about it, as he had been told by his authorities that talking would be a courtmartial offense. That WAS true way back then due to a decree put out in those early years by Intelligence Director Charles Cabell. Gorman, by the way, retired peacefully as a Colonel.

......... so it is. Ain't art beautiful?
 
nlroma1o

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Old Man Mike said:
Ok folks; I watched my DVD of this. I'm going to belabor you with information, figuring that you can always click off if it's too much. But first a few bottom lines:

1. This is pretty good television, but not much of a "Faction" piece. That is, if I had to give a percentage of accuracy it would be way under 10%.
2. Do I have a right to critique this? It's up to you to judge, but I knew Allen Hynek and Mimi Hynek personally (though not as well as some of my close research associates did), worked for Hynek's Center for UFO Studies many years, and have, as I said, Ed Ruppelt's files, and have a personal file of the George Gorman "Fargo, ND Dogfight" that is over 100pp thick --- this was a very famous 1948 case.

A. The TV show is loosely based on the Gorman case. What happened in that case is that Lt. George Gorman (here called "Fuller") was returning to land when confronted by an unknown (in his opinion) white sphere which was "round and somewhat flat". It's odd motions made him investigate, but he couldn't keep up with the thing's maneuverability. There were times of chasing the thing, times of being out-circled by the thing, and times when it seemed to Gorman to be just toying with him. Other witnesses existed to the "dogfight" (but only a straight line flight part) on the ground and in the field tower.

B. This incident occurred in 1948, and was investigated then. The opinion of the USAF at the time was that Gorman had his dogfight with a balloon. Some records of a balloon release were found, but that explanation was never really followed through with actual data on wind direction and launch observations, so the explanation was put into record as a guess as it seemed the simplest one. Gorman didn't believe it, nor did the others in the tower.

C. It was not Blue Book but its predecessor Project SIGN that investigated the case. Hynek was not involved even though he was just being hired out of Ohio State to do a paper work job of reading case files (not traveling to North Dakota) and evaluating them for possible Astronomical explanations. His report, the astronomy section of the Project's final report in 1949 (now called Project Grudge), suggested "no astronomical explanation" (his job) but also likely balloon close pass (not his job.)

D. When Captain Ruppelt took over the now named Project Blue Book (names changed when the task would go in and out of favor), he decided that the Gorman case was interesting, but, to my records, no new trip to North Dakota occurred, and certainly not with Hynek --- after finishing his paper study in 1949, Hynek went back to his astronomy job, until being hired by Ruppelt in early 1952 as a semi-permanent consultant. Ruppelt for some reason retained a true interest in the Gorman case, getting notary public testimony on record after he retired from Blue Book. This later testimony is dated 1955.

So.... now the "insider" stuff most of which is bogus: I'll just list this.
1. Gorman did not deliberately buzz a ball game, but did chase the object over it. He certainly didn't fire at it over US soil --- a court martial offense without high orders --- since he was National Guard I'm not sure that his plane was equipped to fire. Gorman did not spin out nor crash but landed safely and normally at the airfield. There was no collision.

2. The scene with the big wigs worrying about civilian emotions could represent something which might have occurred, as it has precisely the USAF and CIA concerns voiced by the so-called Robertson Panel of early 1953. Gorman's case however provided no role in that top secret meeting (of which we have the proceedings.) (Hynek attended.)

3. Ed Ruppelt (called Michael Quinn in the show) did not have pictures of aliens in his office. His "office" was a shared space in the ATIC HQ building on Wright-Pat AFB, and his desk was beside the one with intel officer keeping track of Soviet MIG reports.

4. The actor does look a bit like the young Hynek, but the actress is prettier than Mimi --- though I thought that Mimi was nice looking and very nice --- their son Paul would not have yet been born, let alone be polluting Dad's files with Flash Gordon comics.

5. Allen would not have resisted the USAFs offer of a paid consultancy for a second. That is how almost all young astronomers made ends meet.

6. Ruppelt didn't smoke. No idea why they did that --- maybe the actor needed a crutch.

7. Hynek's involvement with satellite tracking cameras didn't start until the later 1950s and the money came through Harvard, not OSU.

8. Project SIGN DID send officers to Fargo, ND in 1948 to test Gorman's plane for enhanced counts of radiation. They DID find enhanced readings, but nowhere near dangerous ones.

9. The Close Encounters of the Third Kind "communication by music" is (sadly) bogus.

10. Ruppelt more or less invented the term "unidentified flying object" not Allen.

11. Needless to say at this point, the entire episode in Dakota (Hynek's presence, test flight, second crash, Gorman sequestering and mental problems) is entirely fiction.

12. Allen driving back home following an MIB into an outwardly derelict facility where some musical and numerical codes are going on, is so far out of Allen's naturally Scaredy Cat personality that all of us who knew him would LOL immediately. Allen believed that UFO research was best done over a good meal with a glass of wine.

13. The idea of a blonde Soviet undercover spy would be quite "normal" for the era, though it never happened with either Mimi nor Allen, and would be better timed to 1947-50 and around nuclear-related installations.

14. the black-and-white post-drama trailer was fairly accurate on the Gorman case, but even there the writers couldn't resist the invention of BS. The last phrase was saying that Gorman (never sequestered nor injected etc) never spoke of his incident again, is utterly false. Dr. Jim McDonald interviewed him in 1970 for instance. Gorman did say that for several years following the incident he did not talk about it, as he had been told by his authorities that talking would be a courtmartial offense. That WAS true way back then due to a decree put out in those early years by Intelligence Director Charles Cabell. Gorman, by the way, retired peacefully as a Colonel.

......... so it is. Ain't art beautiful?
Click to expand...

OMM, you are truly a treasure of knowledge on this subject. Thank you for your detailed analysis of the episode, its awesome. If you have the time, I would love to hear your insight on episodes as the come out.
 
BobbyMac

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Is this show you guys are talking about already on video?
 
Irish#1

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Old Man Mike said:
Ok folks; I watched my DVD of this. I'm going to belabor you with information, figuring that you can always click off if it's too much. But first a few bottom lines:
Click to expand...

Appreciate the analysis. Very insightful. You have to question why they would change a lot of the facts when this occurred so long ago? This is why I question a lot of "Making a Murderer". These documentaries like to change or omit a lot of facts to boost viewership.

Looking for more analysis after the next episode. Thanks OMM.
 
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