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Bogtrotter07
Guest
That's a lot better! But I don't know any Democrats than think Trump is an 'illegitimate president.'
I know some that whine that if it weren't for the electoral college skewing one vote to equal more in certain states, HRC would have won. And I tell them the same thing : where were you when the Republicans totally raped the system?
Now I have heard a lot of people talk about what the congress did or didn't do in 2010, 2011, 2012, etc. Where were the Democrats, where was Obama, and where were you when the Republican congress totally dominated plans to update congressional districts throughout the decade, based upon 2010 census results?
Because that was it. It wasn't a populist pro-conservative, or anti-liberal uprising. It wasn't the Russians. It was about Republicans being able to gerrymander the entire election map. It didn't pay immediate dividends, but it helped Romney a bit in 2012, but it really provided 'umpf' in '14 mid-terms, and poised the Republicans to own things in both Congressional chambers.
There are about twenty states now that are over-represented with Republicans in the House, and a growing list in the Senate, based upon analysis of all voting patterns. And it isn't jut that these states have a majority of Republican, it is that they have an overwhelming majority of Republican Congressmen!
Now instead of talking in little, or individual terms, about specific actions or whatever, I believe what is happening is congressional candidates are being driven further and further to the right to be successful. I will not accept this hypothesis disproved until we see a massive, long-term increase in congressional popularity. (That would indicate peoples political view is changing, the same bad actors doing the same bad job, and people liking it.)
One of the scenarios that is likely is congress and the DJT administration setting in opposition. (That is what we all get when we elect a candidate that lies, because, basically DJT isn't any more a 'conservative,' than a 'liberal.' Use any definition of liberal and conservative you want; DJT is a pragmatist with a mercenary political agenda, and he is going to come to conflict with ideologues of any stripe.)
Obama did undermine the narrative of his own party. As president he went off on his own and fought oppositionally with Republicans. He also fought a losing war with the press. And then he dropped the ball with the mid-terms.
If you don't think he saw the bull-shit in the primaries with Debbie Wasserman-Shultz, et all, you are crazy! What did he do? Nothing. So that is where I fault Obama.
Not about whether to continue to torture a pathetic individual that really thought they were doing the best possible thing in a difficult situation. I was never in favor of all those documents being released, and I doubt I would have had the guts to do what Manning did, but I have to tell you, what the government was doing was wrong. I am glad those actors were exposed, and I think they should pay for their own evil and immoral acts.
Which brings up the real personal ideological difference you and I are trying to overcome. Is everything in life so simplistic that one set of preprogrammed rules works?
I mean is it really worth saying : '[all] that leaks are dangerous and evil.' Because I don't believe that. Never risk anyone's life if possible. Yes. Don't sell your own side out. Don't ever leak for love or money. But if you face a true moral, ethical dilemma, and you can save more individuals by breaking the law, and you are so convinced that it is the right thing to do, that you will give your life, or your future. Do it responsibly.
So that only leaves Manning. Manning is broken. Manning was tortured, and broken. Manning already had problems I wouldn't ever wish on anyone. But see, and here may be the difference between you and me, I cannot project my own hatred on this person. I think they have given everything they have, Manning's future is ruined, and there is no need these years later to continue. He never acted maliciously, without deep thought, and he never will be in a position to do anything like that again.
Bottom line, I hope you see I am really ambivalent toward Barack Obama, because I don't care for some of the character I have seen reflected in a few of his decisions, but within context, I see his commuting Manning as a very Christian thing to do, and maybe one of his better moves.
