The Jameis Winston Investigation Thread

[Irish Insanity]

Ya, I thought they would sit him to be honest.

I thought the media pressure would be enormous based on the autographs. I know they had no proof cash like they do with Gurley, but I just thought they would cave based on the fact that its pretty clear that that he did get cash for them.

Plus they already pulled him for the Clemson game as Whiskey noted. And that wasn't any sort of potential violation.

Plus Vegas pulled the game on Monday. Early in the week, I 100% thought they were going to sit him for this game. By about Wednesday it was clear they wouldn't. I'm surprised the sportsbooks haven't put this game back up yet. Maybe they were waiting for the Friday PM bad news dump from FSU that never came?

Edit: meant to respond to phork

I never thought THEY would sit him. I though if it happened at almost any other institution, he would've sat. I think their lack of a back-up has something to do with the decision as well. Plus, at this point, if/when he sits for something, the program is partially responsible. Their lack of serious action on any of his previous issues has allowed it to continue, and showed their are no repercussions for his actions.

 

[dad4aa]

NCAA bylaw 12.5.2.1 says student-athletes cannot permit their names or likenesses to be used for commercial purposes, including to advertise, recommend or promote sales of commercial products, or accept payment for the use of their names or likenesses.

Can someone please clarify for me why FSU and all the JW defenders say he is innocent because he did not get paid? This does not state he has to get paid to violate the rule. With the authentification proving that most of the items signed were done with the intent to be sold, isn't that exactly what the bold statement is saying cannot be done...cannot permit their names to be used for commercial purposes to promote sales of commercial products?

 

[connor_in]

I didn't like JW or their coach to begin with, but for me the reality of this situation came to light with the 1 game suspension. JW comes out dressed for a game he was told he was suspended for. He is told to change and does so. But as Jimbo is talking to him after he comes back from changing, you can clearly see him apologize to JW and take the blame for the situation. The coach apologizes to his player for being suspended and how he was treated when he blatantly ignored his suspension. It's pathetic.

Plus the look on Jimbo's face when he is trying to explain to him is priceless. You can tell Jimbo has been thru this before and knows Jameis is super thick.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I still can't for the life of me figure out how this kid had a committable offer to Stanford.

 

[Pachuco]

I still can't for the life of me figure out how this kid had a committable offer to Stanford.

 

[phork]

NCAA bylaw 12.5.2.1 says student-athletes cannot permit their names or likenesses to be used for commercial purposes, including to advertise, recommend or promote sales of commercial products, or accept payment for the use of their names or likenesses.

Can someone please clarify for me why FSU and all the JW defenders say he is innocent because he did not get paid? This does not state he has to get paid to violate the rule. With the authentification proving that most of the items signed were done with the intent to be sold, isn't that exactly what the bold statement is saying cannot be done...cannot permit their names to be used for commercial purposes to promote sales of commercial products?

Its not what you know its what you can prove. No one can prove he sat down and signed hundreds of items at once. The likelyhood is that he did, there is no proof. So Jimbo's story is skrong.

 

[Classic Irish]

I really dislike Shaw. I don't know if anyone saw his halftime interview during the Washington State-Stanford game. The sideline reporter asked him if he was frustrated by his team's performance in the first half. He replied, "I don't live in a world of frustration." Oh, really, Dave? Then why are you constantly whining to officials throughout every game and why did you practically storm out of the post-game press conference after your team lost to ND? Fraud.

 

[Emcee77]

I really dislike Shaw. I don't know if anyone saw his halftime interview during the Washington State-Stanford game. The sideline reporter asked him if he was frustrated by his team's performance in the first half. He replied, "I don't live in a world of frustration." Oh, really, Dave? Then why are you constantly whining to officials throughout every game and why did you practically storm out of the post-game press conference after your team lost to ND? Fraud.

All of this, but especially the bolded.

I want to like Shaw because I respect what he has done as a coach, but I just don't like him. His whining about officiating and his general smugness are really off-putting. Glad it's not just me.

 

[Emcee77]

NCAA bylaw 12.5.2.1 says student-athletes cannot permit their names or likenesses to be used for commercial purposes, including to advertise, recommend or promote sales of commercial products, or accept payment for the use of their names or likenesses.

Can someone please clarify for me why FSU and all the JW defenders say he is innocent because he did not get paid? This does not state he has to get paid to violate the rule. With the authentification proving that most of the items signed were done with the intent to be sold, isn't that exactly what the bold statement is saying cannot be done...cannot permit their names to be used for commercial purposes to promote sales of commercial products?

I don't get it either, man. What you are saying makes sense but I just read this article:

Florida State says it is reviewing Jameis Winston autographs - ESPN

which suggests that the signings aren't a problem unless he was paid for them but it doesn't really explain the rules. I guess I'm hearing conflicting things about whether it matters if he was paid.

Its not what you know its what you can prove. No one can prove he sat down and signed hundreds of items at once. The likelyhood is that he did, there is no proof. So Jimbo's story is skrong.

It seems to me that there's more than just a likelihood. There's overwhelming circumstantial evidence, viz. hundreds of autographed items with the autographs identical and in the same place and sequentially numbered by the offering site. Anyone with common sense can infer that the items came from an autograph signing.

A lot of people seem to think that if you need common sense to reach the conclusion that someone is guilty of something, he can't be convicted. Like, it has to be so obvious he's guilty that someone with no sense at all could see it. Nothing could be further from the truth. Juries are instructed to use their common sense all the time, every day, and people get convicted of murder based on circumstantial evidence, i.e. evidence that requires them to make inferences, all the time, every day. So I have no problem with the conclusion that this stuff came from an organized autograph signing. It certainly oughta be enough to hold him out as a precaution.

 

[Irish YJ]

 

[irish1958]

Steve Alford was suspended by the NCAA because he allowed his picture to be used in a sorority fund raising promotion for charity on the IU campus.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Steve Alford was suspended by the NCAA because he allowed his picture to be used in a sorority fund raising promotion for charity on the IU campus.

And he didn't have the luxury of hiding under his coach's skirt either.

 

[Irish YJ]

And he didn't have the luxury of hiding under his coach's skirt either.

Bobby doesn't wear a skirt

 

[connor_in]

SIAP

NCAAF Winston's attorney meets deadline - ESPN

 

[stlnd01]

A lot of people seem to think that if you need common sense to reach the conclusion that someone is guilty of something, he can't be convicted. Like, it has to be so obvious he's guilty that someone with no sense at all could see it. Nothing could be further from the truth. Juries are instructed to use their common sense all the time, every day, and people get convicted of murder based on circumstantial evidence, i.e. evidence that requires them to make inferences, all the time, every day. So I have no problem with the conclusion that this stuff came from an organized autograph signing. It certainly oughta be enough to hold him out as a precaution.

And a significant number of convictions based solely on circumstantial evidence are later overturned. Either way, this isn't a criminal court. It's a matter of NCAA regulations, and rather toothless ones at that (What, FSU might have to vacate a win or two? Big whoop.)

If they had video evidence, or even just testimony, that Winston was paid, like with Gurley, they'd probably hold him out. But they don't. If they were playing Florida Atlantic in the 12:00 Eastern ESPN2 special instead of Notre Dame in the Game of The Week, they might hold him out, "as a precaution." But doing so this week would make that a Very Big Story, too, not to mention putting them at risk of losing. And they don't want that either.
No FSU has clearly decided that Jameis Winston is the horse they're riding to glory, and barring obvious clear evidence of serious violations or other malfeasance, they're not going to dismount unless someone forces them to. And nobody's gonna.
Except for our defense.

 

[South Jersey Domer]

Jameis Winston broke the rules of the NCAA, no sugar coating it. How the Seminoles can allow Winston to play after all he did is disgusting. At least Georgia had the integrity to suspend Todd Gurley and is a Heisman favorite. And we all know about our players getting suspended. I never liked Florida State, ever, but this gives me another reason to dislike them. No integrity from that overrated shithole whatsoever.

 

[bkess8]

I never liked Florida State, ever, but this gives me another reason to dislike them. No integrity from that overrated shithole whatsoever.

I never really had a problem with FSU pre JW era. Now I can't stand the sound of FSU or JW and my dislike for Jimbo is growing as we speak.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

But your whole premise is based on opinion, assuming that he did indeed commit rape. Are you saying you know something prosecutors and investigators could not reveal? Were you an eye witness?

Making an argument based on pure assumption is a weak argument at that.

My whole premise is based upon the fact that this kid is a socio-path.

In my statement I am saying for all to hear rape is a deviant behavior, not a shortcoming or immaturity; that is the old school way of looking at things. Never did and doesn't now work.

As far as witnesses and all the other conflated or misdirected parts of your quote that you speak of, I don't need a "witness."

1) Bowden was acknowledging the whole body of charges against Winston, and I think people have to separate out allegations as serious as rape, and not address them as Bobby did, whether they happened or not.

2) The witnesses are Darby and Casher. Both of them were lucky to get probation. They both taped the thing! And since they were called in by Winston's attorney for "prep" and to make a statement, which resulted in deleting the taping, we can assume there was nothing in that tape that proved consensual sex.

3) It has become clear that the TPD through the FSU police department shared everything uncovered in the investigation with Winston's attorney before Darby or Casher made a statement. Which is significant, because Winston didn't have to open his mouth to get his story out. His attorney spoke and Darby and Casher lips moved!

4) The girl and those that forensically examined her have made an extremely compelling case. The two narratives are consistent with each other.

 

[woolybug25]

What I still can't figure out is why the burden of proof has to be more than the actual legal description of reasonable doubt? Everyone acts like it has to be indisputable evidence in order to take action, but why?

Last I checked, the NCAA is a private organization that should have the power to make rules and enforce them to their choosing within the laws that any other private organization does. Somehow, over time, they seem to have fallen under the belief that they can't protect their shield.

 

[Emcee77]

What I still can't figure out is why the burden of proof has to be more than the actual legal description of reasonable doubt? Everyone acts like it has to be indisputable evidence in order to take action, but why?

Last I checked, the NCAA is a private organization that should have the power to make rules and enforce them to their choosing within the laws that any other private organization does. Somehow, over time, they seem to have fallen under the belief that they can't protect their shield.

Yes, this is what I was trying to say earlier. The evidence is almost never undisputed in any controversy, and it doesn't have to be here. The inference is clear and obvious. Why can't the NCAA just be honest with itself, use some common sense, and make that inference.

 

[Irish#1]

After listening to his bull crap about "us against them", then Jumbo speaking in his ear after the game to "watch what he says", the Jumbo saying he told him something else made me laugh and cry at the same time. How pathetic is this mess? No respect for anyone at that school including the administration.

 

[FLDomer]

After listening to his bull crap about "us against them", then Jumbo speaking in his ear after the game to "watch what he says", the Jumbo saying he told him something else made me laugh and cry at the same time. How pathetic is this mess? No respect for anyone at that school including the administration.

What has the school done to be given respect? Their silence and turning of blind eyes is makes them worthy of disrespect.

 

[aubeirish]

Yea, that acting scene at the end was horrible. I really wanted to puke all over the TV(partly alcohol related). These sleazeballs did not deserve to win. We will meet again. I have faith in that.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Half way through Monday and still not a peep out of FSU. There goes my theory about Winston getting suspended today.

My only silver lining after this weekend's debacle is that the next time we play FSU, they'll be operating with a different coaching staff and bare bones roster. Assuming they get hammered the way they deserve. 55-7 ND Heard it here first.

 

[NDohio]

Half way through Monday and still not a peep out of FSU. There goes my theory about Winston getting suspended today.

My only silver lining after this weekend's debacle is that the next time we play FSU, they'll be operating with a different coaching staff and bare bones roster. Assuming they get hammered the way they deserve. 55-7 ND Heard it here first.

I think it's interesting that up until Saturday every sports news agency was talking about Winston and his transgressions. Today, not a peep. They are all talking about ND. Did ND inadvertently take the spotlight off Winston?

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Yea, that acting scene at the end was horrible. I really wanted to puke all over the TV(partly alcohol related). These sleazeballs did not deserve to win. We will meet again. I have faith in that.

I may hang that picture of JW and Jimbo S-hitheel hugging and smiling post game in my office. Just looking at it motivates me to slit throats and get s-hit done.

 

[Irish#1]

After listening to his bull crap about "us against them", then Jumbo speaking in his ear after the game to "watch what he says", the Jumbo saying he told him something else made me laugh and cry at the same time. How pathetic is this mess? No respect for anyone at that school including the administration.

What has the school done to be given respect? Their silence and turning of blind eyes is makes them worthy of disrespect.

I agree completely.

 

[Seanthornton]

Did you here what buddy Jimbo was telling Ernest T. Bass at the end of the game ?? to be humble.....humble pie..........what a moron !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ACamp1900]

I totally expect them to sit Jameis now and get beat somewhere....

 

[Irish#1]

Did you here what buddy Jimbo was telling Ernest T. Bass at the end of the game ?? to be humble.....humble pie..........what a moron !!!!!!!!!!!!

That little scene only confirmed that Jumbo knows that Winston is a problem regardless of what he keeps telling the media.