The Hand Maid's Tale

[phork]

So this was a book I read a very long time ago. Now they have made it into a TV series. They have done a hell of a job so far in the first 4 episodes. Worth checking out.

 

[wizards8507]

Nope.

 

[AdmiralBackhand]

Nope.

True.

 

[NorthDakota]

Maybe if it was The Lusty Argonian Maid....

 

[IrishLion]

Wow, I thought "The Handmaid's Tale" was literally one of the stories from Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales," and that this show was just an expansion of one of the stories.

Guess I haven't paid enough attention lol

 

[woolybug25]

Nope.

True.

 

[Emcee77]

Nope.

True.

What's the story behind these responses? I've heard a lot of buzz about the show and I was thinking of checking it out. Is it not good? Genuinely asking. I don't know much about it.

 

[wizards8507]

What's the story behind these responses? I've heard a lot of buzz about the show and I was thinking of checking it out. Is it not good? Genuinely asking.

It's fourth-wave feminist propaganda.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Maybe if it was The Lusty Argonian Maid....

I can't believe we haven't seen HBO pick this up yet.

 

[ACamp1900]

I can't believe we haven't seen HBO pick this up yet.

Brazzers beat them to it...

 

[irishog77]

The only adjective I've seen to describe the show is "timely." Which makes me not want to watch it. At all.

 

[phork]

Lol you guys crack me up.

 

[wizards8507]

Lol you guys crack me up.

That this is feminist propaganda or that it should be Chaucer porn?

Because it is and it should be.

 

[Emcee77]

It's fourth-wave feminist propaganda.

What do you mean by fourth wave? I'm skeptical there is such a thing. I do read where some young feminists use it to describe themselves, but I don't see any meaningful distinction between their ideas and the ideas of third-wave feminists; the main distinction seems to be in using social media and like tools to organize and express ideas, which strikes me as a poor basis for giving it separate "wave" treatment.

So I guess my question is, when you say "fourth-wave", do you mean anything about the content of the show? Or do you just mean it's a latter-day feminist article?

Maybe this belongs in the Feminism thread.

 

[wizards8507]

What do you mean by fourth wave? I'm skeptical there is such a thing. I do read where some young feminists use it to describe themselves, but I don't see any meaningful distinction between their ideas and the ideas of third-wave feminists; the main distinction seems to be in using social media and like tools to organize and express ideas, which strikes me as a poor basis for giving it separate "wave" treatment.

So I guess my question is, when you say "fourth-wave", do you mean anything about the content of the show? Or do you just mean it's a latter-day feminist article?

Maybe this belongs in the Feminism thread.

The main difference is intersectionality. Third wave feminists say men are bad. Fourth wave feminists say they're extra bad if they're cis, hetero, white, and/or Christian. Fourth wavers are the ones who get mad at the third wavers because they believe problematic things like "women have vaginas."

 

[Emcee77]

The main difference is intersectionality. Third wave feminists say men are bad. Fourth wave feminists say they're extra bad if they're cis, hetero, white, and/or Christian. Fourth wavers are the ones who get mad at the third wavers because they believe problematic things like "women have vaginas."

So the show the Handmaid's Tale, it's about intersectionality, or it touches on it? My question was not so much about the difference between third wave and fourth wave feminism (fwiw, I still don't think there's a meaningful difference, and I think you've mischaracterized third wave feminism) as it was about what you meant by saying the show was fourth wave feminist propaganda.

 

[wizards8507]

So the show the Handmaid's Tale, it's about intersectionality, or it touches on it? My question was not so much about the difference between third wave and fourth wave feminism (fwiw, I still don't think there's a meaningful difference, and I think you've mischaracterized third wave feminism) as it was about what you meant by saying the show was fourth wave feminist propaganda.

Sorry, I muddied the water and should have just called it "feminist propaganda." It's definitely feminist propaganda and it's 2017, and in 2017 feminism is in its fourth wave, ergo...

 

[Emcee77]

Sorry, I muddied the water and should have just called it "feminist propaganda." It's definitely feminist propaganda and it's 2017, and in 2017 feminism is in its fourth wave, ergo...

Ah ok, I follow you. Thanks.

 

[connor_in]

Plot-
In a dystopian near-future, the totalitarian and Protestant fundamentalist government of Gilead rules the former United States amidst an ongoing civil war and subjugation of women, who are not allowed to work, control money, or even read. Widespread infertility due to environmental contamination has resulted in the conscription of young fertile women—called Handmaids, according to Biblical precedent—who are assigned to the homes of the ruling elite, where they must submit to ritualized rape with their male masters in order to become pregnant and bear children for those men and their wives.
The main character, Offred, is the Handmaid assigned to an elite Gileadean Commander and his wife, and as such is subject to the strictest rules and constant scrutiny; an improper word or deed on her part can lead to her execution. Referred to as "Offred" because her master is named Fred, she can remember the "time before", when she was married with a daughter and had her own name, but all she can safely do now is follow the rules of Gilead in hope that she can someday live free.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale_(TV_series)


To the posts about timely...There is a segment out there that says this is timely because this is what DJT wants as far as the treatment of women. See articles like: Hillary Clinton references 'Handmaid's Tale' in women's rights speech - Business Insider

 

[wizards8507]

To the posts about timely...There is a segment out there that says this is timely because this is what DJT wants as far as the treatment of women. See articles like: Hillary Clinton references 'Handmaid's Tale' in women's rights speech - Business Insider

Mike Pence more than DJT. Mike Pence says scary things like "societal collapse was always brought about following the advent of the deterioration of marriage and family."

Never mind the fact that he's demonstrably 100% correct on that.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The book was written in 1985, in the middle of the Reagan administration. Atwood was alarmed at the rise of the Religious Right, and wrote about a Protestant theocratic dystopian future in which those political forces have gone very wrong.

Despite acclamation of "timeliness", it seems somewhat out of sync with current events because: (1) Atwood's scenario requires a previous catastrophe (mass infertility) to bring about the dystopia of Gilead, and liberalism is much more likely to do that than environmental contamination; and (2) the Religious Right is all but spent as a political force in this country.

Dystopian fiction tends to only be compelling to the extent that it accurately comports with current anxieties. I don't think Atwood's story has aged well in that regard.

 

[ACamp1900]

It'd be much more 'timely' had it been about the violence towards or subjugation of opinion(s) that dissent from current narratives.

 

[IrishLion]

Gilead is a real place geographically, right?

Or is it a "catch-all" used for writings in the Bible?

It's a funny coincidence that Gilead represents a nightmarish dystopia in this work, while representing the "true good" in Stephen King's Dark Tower series, since both are now in the pop culture spotlight.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Gilead is a real place geographically, right?

Or is it a "catch-all" used for writings in the Bible?

It's a funny coincidence that Gilead represents a nightmarish dystopia in this work, while representing the "true good" in Stephen King's Dark Tower series, since both are now in the pop culture spotlight.

Well I hear there's a balm there.

 

[Domina Nostra]

The book was written in 1985, in the middle of the Reagan administration. Atwood was alarmed at the rise of the Religious Right, and wrote about a Protestant theocratic dystopian future in which those political forces have gone very wrong.

Despite acclamation of "timeliness", it seems somewhat out of sync with current events because: (1) Atwood's scenario requires a previous catastrophe (mass infertility) to bring about the dystopia of Gilead, and liberalism is much more likely to do that than environmental contamination; and (2) the Religious Right is all but spent as a political force in this country.

Dystopian fiction tends to only be compelling to the extent that it accurately comports with current anxieties. I don't think Atwood's story has aged well in that regard.

How about this. It's just stupid BS. It's not particularly imaginative. The compelling part of the story is the weird sex crap. Its tantalizing to bored audiences to watch paid actresses who aren't actually living in a real-life dystopia, act out weird sex stories.

Dystopian fiction tends to only be compelling to the extent that it takes a current premise and draws it out to a place that is both believable and consistent with the current trends, policies, and philosophies. The idea that Pat Robertson and company were setting the stage for some theocratic take-over that would make women sex slaves does not meet that criteria on any level. Seems like Christianity, not science, would be the voice stating that a rational end (propagation of the human race) can't justify an evil means (forced sex slavery). That's the point of religion, absolutes and all. Transcendent truths.

Here is the creative process: "We--meaning all the awesome people I hang out with--all know for a fact that conservative religious people are crypto-Nazis that hate women and want to make them into slaves... let's make a dystopian story where conservative set up a Nazi-like regime, get there way, and make women into sex slaves. And let's make it really perverted, but associate the made-up perversion with them."

Wow! Creative! DEEP!

 

[wizards8507]

Well I hear there's a balm there.

Is there--is there--balm in Gilead?--tell me--tell me, I implore!

 

[zelezo vlk]

Is there--is there--balm in Gilead?--tell me--tell me, I implore!

No joke, I love that old spiritual. All of the old spirituals really

 

[Whiskeyjack]

How about this. It's just stupid BS.

Well...

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I was trying to be a little more irenic in my response.

 

[wizards8507]

No joke, I love that old spiritual. All of the old spirituals really

My quote was from The Raven, but based on the same spiritual.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Well...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uQl5aYhkF3E?ecver=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I was trying to be a little more irenic in my response.

LOL! True enough. But to be fair, the premise of the Hand Maid's Tale is that a large portion of Bible-believing American men are fascists, so I thought a little a--hole was in order.

For a country that is so hyper-sensitive about offending anyone, we certainly don't seem to be sensitive about offending the most persecuted group on the planet: Christians. The Most Persecuted Religion in the World | HuffPost