The case for an 8 Team Playoff

[fightingirish26]

If #8 won all three playoff games, I'd have no problem with them being crowned the champ

 

[IrishLion]

If they go with every conference champion getting a spot, it means Notre Dame will only be competing for one of three at-large spots instead of one of four in the current format.

True, but they basically need to be perfect to get one of the current four spots.

They would just need to be 11-1 or even 10-2 for one of three at-large spots.

Less spots to potentially fill, but a lighter resume required.

 

[stlnd01]

An eight team playoff with conference championships and a 12-game season means two teams are playing 16 games. That’s what the pros do.

I love my college football but something has to give there. That’s too much for injuries, etc.

I’d say scrap the stupid conference title games but I think that ship has sailed. So maybe scale back the regular season to 11 games and say no more playing FCS teams?

 

[Ndaccountant]

8 team playoff this year would mean OSU getting spanked at Purdue means nothing. It means that Michigan losing their two most important games means nothing. It means debating whether a 10-3 Washington teams gets a change to play Bama versus UCF.

In 2017, it would mean Wisky gets in despite not beating a team in the final CFP rankings. OSU getting bent over in Iowa City would be meaningless. It would give you USC in the playoffs despite the ass-whooping ND gave them.

In 2016 it would have meant the awesome OSU/Michigan game wouldn't have mattered beyond playoff seeding. Ditto for UGA this year.

I think 8 is tragic. No matter what happens, the argument between last one in and first one out will take place. But the farther down the list you go to make sure each P5 conference has a seat at the table will make it so that nobody will want to take risks OOC. After all, if you end up going 10-2 but "look good" doing it, you probably will make the playoffs. FTS

 

[ACamp1900]

8 team playoff this year would mean OSU getting spanked at Purdue means nothing. It means that Michigan losing their two most important games means nothing. It means debating whether a 10-3 Washington teams gets a change to play Bama versus UCF.

I would mean the vast majority of cfb's schedule, rivalries, and such would be largely pointless... it would also ultimately kill the bowls. Say what you what about the toilet bowls but you'd miss the Rose Bowl, The Sugar Bowl and others... they at best will be relegated to a shell of what they were, if they'll even exist at all.

 

[ulukinatme]

Mike Leach already has this figured out:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/y_nuMEtwUW4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I really don't get why anyone is advocating for 4 or 6 (Why the hell 6? First round byes are generally lame). Minimum we should be pushing for is 8, and possibly even 16.

For one, there's no reason we can't have a larger playoff. Right now teams included in the playoff don't play until nearly January, you can weed plenty of teams out in December. Second, as an Irish fan we only play for a National Championship, and if only 4 teams are getting in there is a very, very small chance we get in during a given year. We basically have to run the table, that's the only guarantee we get in, so a larger format is better for us. Some might say that bringing in 16 teams or even 8 teams waters it down, but in college football just about ANY team can win on a given Saturday. Sure, there will be teams that are outmatched from the get go...but underdogs that play have a 5% chance to win, underdogs that don't get to play have absolutely no chance.

If we want to win National Championships again, we need every opportunity to get into the playoff as often as possible. You can't do that if you're on the outside looking in.

 

[gkIrish]

8 team playoff would have made the SEC title game moot. Both would make it And, well, since most other conferences have one division that sucks the championship games are pointless.

People keep saying 8 teams would have worked "this year". But what about next year? Do we change it every year to accomodate that years scenario? I say stick with 4 and kill conference divisions and have the best 2 teams (#1 and #2) in each conference play their championship game. Yes its harder for ND to get in, frankly ND has to be perfect to even warrant that spot.

Or fold it all and make 4 super conferences of 16 teams each. Then starat relegating the conference cellar dwellars to lower conferences. Bump up the UCFs etc. 9 game conference schedule, plus 1 game from each other conference.

If the top 4 seeds get home games then that game is not moot at all. It is a huge advantage to play at home so even in years when the game doesn't affect which 8 teams get in, it will still determine a lot.

 

[Irish YJ]

bring it on!

lol at those wanting to go back to pre BCS years like 93.

There were 6 teams that year that finished with one loss, and one with zero losses (Auburn). even if you did a plus one, you're still going to hear bitching from 4 teams.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Instead of expanding, I would much rather have OOC schedules be purposefully scheduled than the FCS / FCS / MAC / P5 school crap that robs us of great games. If you want to make the playoffs OSU? Fine, win that game versus Washington in September. UGA, you better beat Texas and Penn State. Make every team that finishes in the top 10 be scheduled at least 2 marquee OOC match-ups per year. Now we will see who really deserves it.

 

[gkIrish]

It's unacceptable to have a system that potentially excludes an undefeated Power 5/ND from a chance at winning the championship. What happened to Auburn in 2004 (and to a lesser extent Boise St. and Utah) is an absolute crime. So you can't just not have a playoff. Imagine ND having no chance to win the title if we went 12-0. It can't be a possibility.

I like the idea of 6 teams because #7 or #8 most years don't have a strong claim. Top 6 ensures no deserving team is left out and rewards the two best teams with a bye week. The other 2 games are played at the home stadiums of the higher seed and then you have a neutral playoff semifinal and final.

I would do automatic bids for any Power 5 conference champion who also finishes in the top 10 of whatever poll/ranking you want to use. That way a 3-4 loss conference champion won't get in. Automatic bid for the highest Group of 5 team that also finishes in that same top ten. If no Group of 5 finishes in top 10, no auto bid.

 

[Circa]

Mike Leach already has this figured out:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/y_nuMEtwUW4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I really don't get why anyone is advocating for 4 or 6 (Why the hell 6? First round byes are generally lame). The minimum we should be pushing for is 8, and possibly even 16.

For one, there's no reason we can't have a larger playoff. Right now teams included in the playoff don't play until nearly January, you can weed plenty of teams out in December. Second, as an Irish fan we only play for a National Championship, and if only 4 teams are getting in there is a very, very small chance we get in during a given year. We basically have to run the table, that's the only guarantee we get in, so a larger format is better for us. Some might say that bringing in 16 teams or even 8 teams waters it down, but in college football just about ANY team can win on a given Saturday. Sure, there will be teams that are outmatched from the get go...but underdogs that play have a 5% chance to win, underdogs that don't get to play have absolutely no chance. If we want to win National Championships again, we need every opportunity to get into the playoff as often as possible. You can't do that if you're on the outside looking in.

We do have ourselves a dilemma. Those that don't want a real playoff with teams playing the underdog role seem scared and suspicious.. a nail in the tire regarding total dominance.
Dominance Is only prevalent when the hierarchy allows and wants It to happen... ala ESPN.
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[fitz_bu47]

Mike Leach already has this figured out:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/y_nuMEtwUW4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I really don't get why anyone is advocating for 4 or 6 (Why the hell 6? First round byes are generally lame). Minimum we should be pushing for is 8, and possibly even 16.

For one, there's no reason we can't have a larger playoff. Right now teams included in the playoff don't play until nearly January, you can weed plenty of teams out in December. Second, as an Irish fan we only play for a National Championship, and if only 4 teams are getting in there is a very, very small chance we get in during a given year. We basically have to run the table, that's the only guarantee we get in, so a larger format is better for us. Some might say that bringing in 16 teams or even 8 teams waters it down, but in college football just about ANY team can win on a given Saturday. Sure, there will be teams that are outmatched from the get go...but underdogs that play have a 5% chance to win, underdogs that don't get to play have absolutely no chance.

If we want to win National Championships again, we need every opportunity to get into the playoff as often as possible. You can't do that if you're on the outside looking in.

Was going to post this video. I played in the NAIA, and we had, and they still have a 16 team playoff system. It was awesome, and every game still mattered. You try like hell to win your conference, knowing if you do you're in. 8 might be a better number than 16 in D-1. In my opinion having played in a system like that, do away with the conference title games, winner of the conference is determined by the regular season, and bump up the "bowls" into a playoff bracket. I'm w/ Lax and what he said earlier, if you're gonna do it, do it right and that's at least 8. As was also mentioned, with current system if ND isn't 12-0 they're never getting in. I feel like w/ 8 it would be much harder for the Irish to get screwed out of a spot.

 

[Circa]

It's unacceptable to have a system that potentially excludes an undefeated Power 5/ND from a chance at winning the championship. What happened to Auburn in 2004 (and to a lesser extent Boise St. and Utah) is an absolute crime. So you can't just not have a playoff. Imagine ND having no chance to win the title if we went 12-0. It can't be a possibility.

I like the idea of 6 teams because #7 or #8 most years don't have a strong claim. Top 6 ensures no deserving team is left out and rewards the two best teams with a bye week. The other 2 games are played at the home stadiums of the higher seed and then you have a neutral playoff semifinal and final.

I would do automatic bids for any Power 5 conference champion who also finishes in the top 10 of whatever poll/ranking you want to use. That way a 3-4 loss conference champion won't get in. Automatic bid for the highest Group of 5 team that also finishes in that same top ten. If no Group of 5 finishes in top 10, no auto bid.

In this model. We 'ND' would really never have a bye week. The 13th data point would most definitely become an issue thus giving most teams with a CCG the better chance. "This isn't really even debatable", Irish YJ" UCF aficionado".

 

[Irish YJ]

I would mean the vast majority of cfb's schedule, rivalries, and such would be largely pointless... it would also ultimately kill the bowls. Say what you what about the toilet bowls but you'd miss the Rose Bowl, The Sugar Bowl and others... they at best will be relegated to a shell of what they were, if they'll even exist at all.

you could actually keep the rose, orange, and sugar tie ins with auto CCs.
it would be OSU/Wash, Bama/OK, Clemson/?, and ?/?.
Fill in ND, UCF, and UGA in the Qs.

8 team playoff this year would mean OSU getting spanked at Purdue means nothing. It means that Michigan losing their two most important games means nothing. It means debating whether a 10-3 Washington teams gets a change to play Bama versus UCF.

In 2017, it would mean Wisky gets in despite not beating a team in the final CFP rankings. OSU getting bent over in Iowa City would be meaningless. It would give you USC in the playoffs despite the ass-whooping ND gave them.

In 2016 it would have meant the awesome OSU/Michigan game wouldn't have mattered beyond playoff seeding. Ditto for UGA this year.

I think 8 is tragic. No matter what happens, the argument between last one in and first one out will take place. But the farther down the list you go to make sure each P5 conference has a seat at the table will make it so that nobody will want to take risks OOC. After all, if you end up going 10-2 but "look good" doing it, you probably will make the playoffs. FTS

The farther down the bitch, the less folks care, and the less persuasive.

If all you have to do is more or less win one side of the conference for a shot at the playoffs, why would any P5 team worry about OoC losses.... And..If I'm any team in any conference besides the SEC, I know I better schedule some tough OoC games if I want to be considered for an at large spot.

It would be nice if each team P5 team had one lottery home and home. Meaning all P5s, for one game per year, had to draw an opponent.

 

[wizards8507]

If the top 4 seeds get home games then that game is not moot at all. It is a huge advantage to play at home so even in years when the game doesn't affect which 8 teams get in, it will still determine a lot.

Georgia would be #3 or #4 in an 8 team playoff. We would have slid behind them and possibly Oklahoma and Ohio State and been told to quit crying because we got in so STFU.

 

[GATTACA!]

1) Auto-bids seem likely at this point, so they should be factored in (loosely, at the very least)

2) You think teams like LSU and UF wouldn't bitch their asses off about being left out this year (in your non-autobid situation)?

There is ALWAYS going to be "bubbles burst" whether that's #3, #5, #9... it doesn't matter. Schools DO complain in NCAA basketball... Think about that.

I agree, #9 should get over it. I also believe #5 (this year) should alos get over it. You can't just keep pushing the line back.

This why the NCAA went to 4 games in the first place. They did wan't to do 8. Now they're seeing all the "consequences" (and room for more profits) and are pushing it out more....

1) Sure, but like I said I wasn't talking about auto bids.

2) I don't really care about the volume of the complaints I care about their legitimacy. Ohio State has a legit case to be in over OK. LSU does not.

The further down you move the bubble the less egregious you make any omission. Do you really hear people complain about the basketball snubs? Who cares?

I'm looking for the most exciting finish to the season. 8 would be more fun than 4. I don't care about bowls.

 

[Circa]

Georgia would be #3 or #4 in an 8 team playoff. We would have slid behind them and possibly Oklahoma and Ohio State and been told to quit crying because we got in so STFU.

Bristol, CT? I understand your love of ND and ESPN. But, It really seems odd to tell someone to STFU when your job Is really one of a form of entitlement as CFB goes. I will always hold you to a higher standard than most anyone on here as a poster. Let's get It together....<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/2sk6nPDC55uxNX3NSs" width="480" height="376" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/espnmx-soccer-2sk6nPDC55uxNX3NSs">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[wizards8507]

Bristol, CT? I understand your love of ND and ESPN. But, It really seems odd to tell someone to STFU when your job Is really one of a form of entitlement as CFB goes. I will always hold you to a higher standard than most anyone on here as a poster. Let's get It together....<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/2sk6nPDC55uxNX3NSs" width="480" height="376" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/espnmx-soccer-2sk6nPDC55uxNX3NSs">via GIPHY</a></p>

I didn't tell anyone to STFU. I'm saying the committee would have told US, Notre Dame fans, to STFU in the hypothetical scenario I laid out.

 

[Circa]

I didn't tell anyone to STFU. I'm saying the committee would have told US, Notre Dame fans, to STFU in the hypothetical scenario I laid out.

Ok, I may have read It wrong...<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/l41lGxxaSgnMk7rIA" width="480" height="436" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/steveharveytv-sorry-steve-harvey-l41lGxxaSgnMk7rIA">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[Irish YJ]

Georgia would be #3 or #4 in an 8 team playoff. We would have slid behind them and possibly Oklahoma and Ohio State and been told to quit crying because we got in so STFU.

depends how it's set up. auto bids could be 1-5. it could be set by the polls. could have bowl tie in.

 

[stlnd01]

One of the good things about the four-team playoff is that it seems to have encouraged more quality non-conference games - which are one of the most fun things about college football (and good for Notre Dame scheduling) - because schools want that resume boost as insurance if they lose a game.
Does that incentive still exist with an eight-team playoff? Do you play up to boost your odds of getting an at-large bid? Or does everything become about winning the conference champion autobid and you schedule creampuffs to focus on that?

 

[ulukinatme]

The top football factories don't want an expanded playoff. More games means more chances for the Alabamas of the world to slip up. An expanded playoff would mean even more meaningful games, and more unique matchups.

 

[Circa]

The top football factories don't want an expanded playoff. More games means more chances for the Alabamas of the world to slip up. An expanded playoff would mean even more meaningful games, and more unique matchups.

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[Bluto]

The top football factories don't want an expanded playoff. More games means more chances for the Alabamas of the world to slip up. An expanded playoff would mean even more meaningful games, and more unique matchups.

Wouldn’t it also continue the slippery slope of college becoming more like a semi pro league and there being even less of an emphasis on the student part of “student athlete”? At this point the conferences and conference championships act as a defacto “playoff” system.

 

[Irish YJ]

Wouldn’t it also continue the slippery slope of college becoming more like a semi pro league and there being even less of an emphasis on the student part of “student athlete”? At this point the conferences and conference championships act as a defacto “playoff” system.

i mean, almost every other college sport has a playoff.
i don't see the other sports as any more semi pro than CFB already is.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

Wouldn’t it also continue the slippery slope of college becoming more like a semi pro league and there being even less of an emphasis on the student part of “student athlete”? At this point the conferences and conference championships act as a defacto “playoff” system.

Basketball has a 64 team playoff. No one seems to think they are less college athletes because of the long season.

 

[ulukinatme]

Wouldn’t it also continue the slippery slope of college becoming more like a semi pro league and there being even less of an emphasis on the student part of “student athlete”? At this point the conferences and conference championships act as a defacto “playoff” system.

I don't see it being any worse that it already is. Basketball already has a huge playoff. Every other division of football from high school all the way to the NFL has playoffs larger than 4. Why Division 1 decides they have to be different...I don't know. I suspect it all comes down to money, but who says a larger playoff means less money? If anything I would think you could bring in more cash...and you could still keep the crappy bowls for lower teams.

 

[stlnd01]

Basketball has a 64 team playoff. No one seems to think they are less college athletes because of the long season.

Except that the best players in college basketball basically attend one semester of college classes and then go pro.

But, more to the point of this conversation: Regular season college basketball is completely irrelevant. Because of the 64-team playoff, it's all a big warmup. Everyone good makes the tournament and they hash it out from there. Those "big" games in January and February are fun in the moment but ultimately meaningless. I'd hate to see college football go down that road.

 

[wizards8507]

Junior gets it.

Check out @GolicAndWingo’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/GolicAndWingo/status/1073185382538317824?s=09

 

[Irish#1]

Georgia would be #3 or #4 in an 8 team playoff. We would have slid behind them and possibly Oklahoma and Ohio State and been told to quit crying because we got in so STFU.

Disagree. We were solidly in. When we moved to #3, we stayed there. Any talk of ND dropping was external noise from all the experts and fans, but not the committee.