The case for an 8 Team Playoff

[RDU Irish]

I understand why conferences would be motivated to expand to 8 to get one of their teams guaranteed, I just don't see a scenario where they want their best team to lose for the possibility of a 2nd team getting in. First, you risk your best team not being one of the at-large bids. You would also have your best team probably go on the road in the first round and make it that much tougher to win. Also, I'm sure there will be a provision to keep some 8-4 team from making it, even if they win the CCG. I could see any conference champion having to be a top 12 team (or something similar).

This is why I think making the first round a home game is important - this really helps keep the essence of college football alive and rewards the fans - not the corporations with box seats to their local NFL stadium.

Maybe that 8-4 team is the best team at the end of the season! Maybe their all-star QB was injured, maybe their coach was suspended for being a twat. Maybe they have a million excuses that will be made if that team is Alabama or Georgia or Ohio State but not if they are Pitt or Northwestern.

I'm going to guess you don't subscribe to the idea of ND getting jobbed by refs on a pretty regular basis?

 

[wizards8507]

This is why I think making the first round a home game is important - this really helps keep the essence of college football alive and rewards the fans - not the corporations with box seats to their local NFL stadium.

Ehhh. I agree in theory, but the potential for "clearly inferior 8-seed knocks off #1" is much more likely in a foot of snow in Big 10 country.

 

[Bishop2b5]

So what is the goal with a playoff? Do we want to reward every deserving team? Give the top 4 or 8 teams a shot at a title? Do we want to give every conference a participation trophy? Is it to reward the top few teams with an acknowledgement that they had a great season? Or is it to determine who the best team in the country is?

 

[Irish YJ]

This is why I think making the first round a home game is important - this really helps keep the essence of college football alive and rewards the fans - not the corporations with box seats to their local NFL stadium.

Maybe that 8-4 team is the best team at the end of the season! Maybe their all-star QB was injured, maybe their coach was suspended for being a twat. Maybe they have a million excuses that will be made if that team is Alabama or Georgia or Ohio State but not if they are Pitt or Northwestern.

I'm going to guess you don't subscribe to the idea of ND getting jobbed by refs on a pretty regular basis?

There is a strong sentiment to make the first round home games for the upper 4. Has nothing to do with "essence of football" though. It's about the perceived financial hardship it would put on a team's fan bases to travel to potentially 3 games. I think they will end up neutral, but there may end up being a regional bias to the matchups/venue.

 

[RDU Irish]

Ehhh. I agree in theory, but the potential for "clearly inferior 8-seed knocks off #1" is much more likely in a foot of snow in Big 10 country.

Make it 6 teams with two byes if #8 isn't allowed to be good enough to win. Bama would approve.

 

[Irish YJ]

Make it 6 teams with two byes if #8 isn't allowed to be good enough to win. Bama would approve.

6 is just not going to happen. Even Paul F smacked down several callers on his show when the topic of 6 came up.

 

[RDU Irish]

There is a strong sentiment to make the first round home games for the upper 4. Has nothing to do with "essence of football" though. It's about the perceived financial hardship it would put on a team's fan bases to travel to potentially 3 games. I think they will end up neutral, but there may end up being a regional bias to the matchups/venue.

LOL - seriously? $470 ticket price to the title game in San Fran, furthest location possible from any real football and one of the most expensive locations in the country. Pretty sure ability for average fans to attend is pretty low on their radar of concerns. Most teams have local fan bases - give an extra shot in the arm to the locations that earned it.

I would think season ticket holders would salivate over the potential home playoff game - good incentive to sell out those season tickets for the top tier programs. For Bama it might make up for their six home games against directional schools season holders have to buy and Saban whines about fans not attending.

 

[RDU Irish]

6 is just not going to happen. Even Paul F smacked down several callers on his show when the topic of 6 came up.

Wiz better get in line then - can't have #8 beating #1, that's just not fair.

 

[Irish YJ]

Wiz better get in line then - can't have #8 beating #1, that's just not fair.

If UCF beat Bama this year, the world would be just fine. LOL....

Love Wiz, but he lives in Wiz-World (that would be a great name for a thread Wiz). Fair is where you get cotton candy.

 

[NDRock]

So what is the goal with a playoff? Do we want to reward every deserving team? Give the top 4 or 8 teams a shot at a title? Do we want to give every conference a participation trophy? Is it to reward the top few teams with an acknowledgement that they had a great season? Or is it to determine who the best team in the country is?

Make money. Provide entertainment.

 

[MNIrishman]

So what is the goal with a playoff? Do we want to reward every deserving team? Give the top 4 or 8 teams a shot at a title? Do we want to give every conference a participation trophy? Is it to reward the top few teams with an acknowledgement that they had a great season? Or is it to determine who the best team in the country is?

You can't truthfully determine a "best" because the data are insufficient and poorly connected. However, a playoff to decide a "national champion" is a decent proxy.

Conferences tend to do a good job of establishing "best" within themselves, but the data between conferences is far more sparse. It makes sense to give every conference champion a spot with qualifiers, such as a minimum required 10 P5 wins or top 10 ranking.... Something like that. If a conference can't provide a champion that meets those qualifiers, then that spot becomes a wildcard.

Then, the wildcards can be chosen by an algorithm... No useless subjectivity. Michigan looked awesome... Until they didn't. MsSt in 2014 passed the eye test... Until they didn't. Have the ADs agree on what parameters constitute a playoff-worthy performance, then use those parameters to dispassionately assign the wildcard spots.

 

[wizards8507]

You can't truthfully determine a "best" because the data are insufficient and poorly connected. However, a playoff to decide a "national champion" is a decent proxy.

Not in football it's not. Single elimination tournaments do a poor job of crowning the best team champion. The larger the tournament, the worse it is.

Playoffs only "work" in sports where you can play a five or seven game series.

 

[MNIrishman]

Not in football it's not. Single elimination tournaments do a poor job of crowning the best team champion. The larger the tournament, the worse it is.

Playoffs only "work" in sports where you can play a five or seven game series.

I don't disagree.

 

[NDRock]

Not in football it's not. Single elimination tournaments do a poor job of crowning the best team champion. The larger the tournament, the worse it is.

Playoffs only "work" in sports where you can play a five or seven game series.

Yeah and even a sport like baseball can be fluky. The NBA probably crowns the best team most of the time. Maybe it’s a grass is always greener outlook but I like the European soccer model where you play everyone twice (home and away). No need for playoffs.

 

[wizards8507]

Nick Saban: Bowl games would 'disintegrate' by expanding playoff

"On Thursday, Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick said he didn't see "any momentum for change" in terms of expanding the playoff to eight teams."

That settles that.

 

[Irish YJ]

Nick Saban: Bowl games would 'disintegrate' by expanding playoff

"On Thursday, Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick said he didn't see "any momentum for change" in terms of expanding the playoff to eight teams."

That settles that.

it settles absolutely zero.
saban saying that is like the richest man on earth commenting on welfare.

and the bowl games aren't going anywhere. they are already disintegrated trash. and they are trash because we have 50 bowls, and we have 6 win teams playing in them.... having 4 extra first round playoff games would probably bring in as much revenue as all the low tier bowls combined...

 

[NDRock]

I’ve not watched a minute of any bowl game. I’d much rather watch the NFL this time of year. Saturday will be fun though.

 

[BobbyMac]

Nick Saban: Bowl games would 'disintegrate' by expanding playoff

"On Thursday, Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick said he didn't see "any momentum for change" in terms of expanding the playoff to eight teams."

That settles that.

Saban wants NOTHING to do with expanded playoffs. Everyone treats them like the '29 Yankees BUT since 2010 facts are:

Bama is just 8-5 vs Top 4 teams in from the Iron Bowl on. 9-6 if you include Top 10.

In those games Bama is:

0-1 at Home
0-2 Away
9-3 Neutral
1-0 outside SEC territory, 2-0 if you include Dallas as outside the SEC

Bottom line, Bama's human vs playoff caliber teams late in the season. Playing another Top 4 team each year is simply NOT in Bama's best interest because they only win 61.5% of games vs Top 4 teams.

Also to note, the CFP are expanding outside of SEC country. Fiesta, Rose, Levi's, Lucas Oil, Rams Stadium and others will follow. Bama's got the deck stacked right now and Saban will do/say anything he can to keep it that way.

 

[ACamp1900]

So what is the goal with a playoff? Do we want to reward every deserving team? Give the top 4 or 8 teams a shot at a title? Do we want to give every conference a participation trophy? Is it to reward the top few teams with an acknowledgement that they had a great season? Or is it to determine who the best team in the country is?

The goal with any expanded playoff is a complete cluster fuck geared to entertain the lowest common denominators...

 

[Irish YJ]

I’ve not watched a minute of any bowl game. I’d much rather watch the NFL this time of year. Saturday will be fun though.

tonight is decent (miami/wisconsin), and tomorrow turns up a few notches. saturday is gonna be entertaining all day.

Saban wants NOTHING to do with expanded playoffs. Everyone treats them like the '29 Yankees BUT since 2010 facts are:

Bama is just 8-5 vs Top 4 teams in from the Iron Bowl on. 9-6 if you include Top 10.

In those games Bama is:

0-1 at Home
0-2 Away
9-3 Neutral
1-0 outside SEC territory, 2-0 if you include Dallas as outside the SEC

Bottom line, Bama's human vs playoff caliber teams late in the season. Playing another Top 4 team each year is simply NOT in Bama's best interest because they only win 61.5% of games vs Top 4 teams.

Also to note, the CFP are expanding outside of SEC country. Fiesta, Rose, Levi's, Lucas Oil, Rams Stadium and others will follow. Bama's got the deck stacked right now and Saban will do/say anything he can to keep it that way.

preach

The goal with any expanded playoff is a complete cluster fuck geared to entertain the lowest common denominators...

I guess I'm happily in the deplorable masses....

 

[Bluto]

Not in football it's not. Single elimination tournaments do a poor job of crowning the best team champion. The larger the tournament, the worse it is.

Playoffs only "work" in sports where you can play a five or seven game series.

That is the beauty of football is it not? You don’t necessarily need to be the “best” team to win it all in single game elimination. In that sense it’s closer to mma and boxing than baseball, basketball or soccer.

Other than the NCAA and the various conferences looking for a bigger payday I really don’t see the point of putting a bunch of amateur athletes through an 8 team playoff meat grinder.