Terror Attack on Nice, France

[wizards8507]

I never said they shouldn't be dealt with. All I'm saying is we need to put everything into context. Innocent people have died, and that is very upsetting, but knee jerk reactions aren't going to solve the issue. They want us to attack them. That is a recruiting strategy.

"Look at how the West invades our land and kills our people. Take up arms with your brothers in the name of Allah to destroy in infidels."

Us going there can do much more harm than good in the long run. Like I said, I don't have the answers, but I'm willing to listen to ideas that can solve this problem without "turning the Middle East into a parking lot."

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of their mission and ideology. It has nothing to do with the West invading THEIR lands, it's about THEM invading the West. They want a worldwide caliphate.

It's amazing to me that people actually think all Muslims are jihadists. It shows a very limited understanding of the religion, the different sects and beliefs.

Nobody thinks all Muslims (the people) are jihadists. But Islam (the religion) endorses jihad. That's a statement of fact.

 

[woolybug25]

Very valid point UNTIL you inject the coming of Jesus who created a new covenant and did away with the old.

Old Testament was harsh. God had his chosen people and the non chosen were driven forth. That was established and time passed.

Then the Messiah came and changed it all.

So they were only bad during the Old Testament?

So Jews = Bad?

Unreal.

 

[GowerND11]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of their mission and ideology. It has nothing to do with the West invading THEIR lands, it's about THEM invading the West. They want a worldwide caliphate.


Nobody thinks all Muslims (the people) are jihadists. But Islam (the religion) endorses jihad. That's a statement of fact.

I don't disagree that ISIS or other extremists may very well want a worldwide caliphate. I'm just saying they have and will use our invasions as a recruiting strategy.

 

[Wingman Ray]

So they were only bad during the Old Testament?

So Jews = Bad?

Unreal.

I get it Wooley. You are a cynical unbeliever. Sorry, your loss. Every since time I post you come back crabass. Who really cares? Have your opinion, I have my faith.

Do I blast you every time you talk about nailing college hotties you would never get a second look from in your best day? Do I object to your openly sinful thoughts on a...gasp...public forum?

Here is a solution....shut up

 

[woolybug25]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of their mission and ideology. It has nothing to do with the West invading THEIR lands, it's about THEM invading the West. They want a worldwide caliphate.


Nobody thinks all Muslims (the people) are jihadists. But Islam (the religion) endorses jihad. That's a statement of fact.

Don't act like you have a working knowledge of Islam, because you don't. Jihad is one of the most misunderstood parts of Islam by both extremists and the average American. Let me give you an example:

"In Islam, “jihad” has several different components, which include personal struggles, such as the struggle against an addiction; social struggles, such as the struggle to become tolerant of others; and occasionally a military struggle, if and when necessary in self-defense. When asked, “What is the major jihad?” Muhammad replied: “The jihad of the self (struggle against the personal self).” Contrary to the rhetoric and misinformation about “jihad” in anti-Islam networks, Muhammad did not say that the violent struggle was the most important form of “jihad.”

Genesis 10-12 specifically offers many examples where God commands His people to kill their enemy aggressors in warfare. But that's different, right? Pretty much every religion talks about the need to spread their word and protect their banner.

 

[woolybug25]

I get it Wooley. You are a cynical unbeliever. Sorry, your loss. Every since time I post you come back crabass. Who really cares? Have your opinion, I have my faith.

Do I blast you every time you talk about nailing college hotties you would never get a second look from in your best day? Do I object to your openly sinful thoughts on a...gasp...public forum?

Here is a solution....shut up

Real intelligent response. Bravo.

 

[wizards8507]

Don't act like you have a working knowledge of Islam, because you don't. Jihad is one of the most misunderstood parts of Islam by both extremists and the average American. Let me give you an example:

"In Islam, “jihad” has several different components, which include personal struggles, such as the struggle against an addiction; social struggles, such as the struggle to become tolerant of others; and occasionally a military struggle, if and when necessary in self-defense. When asked, “What is the major jihad?” Muhammad replied: “The jihad of the self (struggle against the personal self).” Contrary to the rhetoric and misinformation about “jihad” in anti-Islam networks, Muhammad did not say that the violent struggle was the most important form of “jihad.”

Genesis 10-12 specifically offers many examples where God commands His people to kill their enemy aggressors in warfare. But that's different, right? Pretty much every religion talks about the need to spread their word and protect their banner.

Yet only one of them has people running children over with 18-wheelers.

 

[GowerND11]

I disagree. Not being there would just leave a vacuum that would results in the same or worse stuff. Look at how people in this country still bring up shit that colonists did to slaves or indigenous people 400+ years ago... the Middle East is not going to just "get over it" if we leave, no matter how much time we give them.

The only real solution is to get hundreds of thousands of troops on the ground from some sort of UN coalition and establish martial law. Then you brings in thousands of western teachers and indoctrinate the younger generations that their older generations are full of shit and religious zealotry makes zero sense. And then in about 50 years of that, you'll have the middle east functioning like a "normal" region of the world. The cost would be in the trillions to do that.

Alternative solution is eradication, which we'd all agree is not morally acceptable. So we're going to get stuck going round and round at the relatively small costs of a few hundred lives a year to terror attacks from extremists.

I can agree with this post. I will say, I said it CAN cause more problems. What you suggest is something that would have to be implemented correctly, and allowed to run it's course. People are impatient. They want results, and sometimes they only want that initial result. That's my problem with going over there in force. Not enough of the public can see it needs to be a long term solution through teaching and sacrifice.

 

[woolybug25]

Yet only one of them has people running children over with 18-wheelers.

Yeah. It's not like Isreal attacks Muslims on the regular. Oh wait...

Nobody is saying that there isn't an extremist issue within the broader Muslim community. But spouting off inaccuracies and furthering the mischaracterizations of their religion doesn't solve the issue. Waving your finger and lumping a billion Muslims into an extremist bucket doesn't do anything either.

It hasn't worked since the dawn of time.

 

[wizards8507]

Yeah. It's not like Isreal attacks Muslims on the regular. Oh wait...

Nobody is saying that there isn't an extremist issue within the broader Muslim community. But spouting off inaccuracies and furthering the mischaracterizations of their religion doesn't solve the issue. Waving your finger and lumping a billion Muslims into an extremist bucket doesn't do anything either.

It hasn't worked since the dawn of time.

Whiskey, if you're reading, please explain to our friend here how Islam is incompatible with Western civilization.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

You guys should stop publicly talking about this, you are upsetting the BLM people.

 

[woolybug25]

Whiskey, if you're reading, please explain to our friend here how Islam is incompatible with Western civilization.

Whiskey and I have talked in depth and we fully understand eachother's view on the matter. No need to try to get him to come and save your ass when you have nothing left to argue. Instead of hoping he can come save you, why don't you try to mirror his level of reasonable and intelligent discourse?

 

[wizards8507]

Whiskey and I have talked in depth and we fully understand eachother's view on the matter. No need to try to get him to come and save your ass when you have nothing left to argue. Instead of hoping he can come save you, why don't you try to mirror his level of reasonable and intelligent discourse?

He's far more of an historian and anthropologist than I am. I could take the time to research and construct the same argument he likely will, but he can likely do it much more quickly and articulately than me since he's done it before.

 

[woolybug25]

He's far more of an historian and anthropologist than I am. I could take the time to research and construct the same argument he likely will, but he can likely do it much more quickly and articulately than me since he's done it before.

So you have no problem spouting off any innacuracy that fits your narrative, but too lazy to actually do the research to verify your opinions? No need to base your comments on known facts?

Gotcha.

 

[wizards8507]

So you have no problem spouting off any innacuracy that fits your narrative, but too lazy to actually do the research to verify your opinions? No need to base your comments on known facts?

Gotcha.

Absolutely incorrect. Once upon a time in ninth grade geometry class, I learned the proof of the Pythagorean Theorem. Now, I know with certainty that a^2 + b^2 = c^2 in a right triangle with hypotenuse c. I know this even though I would be unable to recreate the proof without extensive research. If tasked with proving the theorem, I'd defer to a math teacher.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Look at the Koran. It clearly says no room for non Islamist. Now Im not saying all muslims are fanatic but that is what it says. I believe muslims will behave as long as it is in their best interest to behave. Once the lid is off, you will see a whole difference face under that taqiyah.

You need to Google Wahhabism so you have a better understanding of what exactly the West is up against.

 

[woolybug25]

Absolutely incorrect. Once upon a time in ninth grade geometry class, I learned the proof of the Pythagorean Theorem. Now, I know with certainty that a^2 + b^2 = c^2 in a right triangle with hypotenuse c. I know this even though I would be unable to recreate the proof without extensive research. If tasked with proving the theorem, I'd defer to a math teacher.

That's such an intellectually dishonest response.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

1. Prayers for the victims

2. Europe has been in trouble for decades and will continue to see attacks like this, unfortunately.

3. Ban trucks

 

[GowerND11]

You need to Google Wahhabism so you have a better understanding of what exactly the West is up against.

I second this for all of us.

 

[RDU Irish]

I disagree. Not being there would just leave a vacuum that would results in the same or worse stuff. Look at how people in this country still bring up shit that colonists did to slaves or indigenous people 400+ years ago... the Middle East is not going to just "get over it" if we leave, no matter how much time we give them.

The only real solution is to get hundreds of thousands of troops on the ground from some sort of UN coalition and establish martial law. Then you brings in thousands of western teachers and indoctrinate the younger generations that their older generations are full of shit and religious zealotry makes zero sense. And then in about 50 years of that, you'll have the middle east functioning like a "normal" region of the world. The cost would be in the trillions to do that.

Alternative solution is eradication, which we'd all agree is not morally acceptable. So we're going to get stuck going round and round at the relatively small costs of a few hundred lives a year to terror attacks from extremists.

This boils down my thoughts on the region pretty well. ROI of the (over) reaction to 9/11 was pretty horrendous. Compensate the victims and rebuild - then apply a reasonable budget to addressing the chronic problem and mitigate your risk. $2 trillion is not the price to pay - what is that over $500 million per life? Same in Nice - couple hundred families are catastrophically impacted, everyone else feels bad about it. Yet morons are calling for WW3 versus what is essentially slow motion guerilla warfare on steroids.

Life is not without risk - expecting the government to eliminate it is unreasonable and destined for disappointment. Accepting that risk and carrying on with our lives seems much more logical to me than most of the alternatives I am hearing bantered about.

 

[Irish#1]

You bolded something, then answered it completely out of context. Yes they've killed many people. Yes that is a tragedy. Yes they are a problem that needs to be solved.

But in no way have they actually been a threat to any foreign nation in the time they have done so. The US, Western Europe, and even the Middle East are in no more danger of crumbling because of ISIS because of these attacks. We react with bombings and boots on the ground, more people despise us. More attacks occur when we infiltrate.

I'm not saying we need to pander to ISIS, but I am saying, like Buster, that they aren't an immediate threat like people believe. I don't have an answer for what the right course of action is against these terrorists, but blaming Obama, Islam, etc. isn't going to help any. We need a viable solution that isn't just, play world police and blow shit up.

Who cares if they're not an immediate threat to take over a country's government? They're still an immediate threat to kill a whole bunch of innocent people and incite fear around the world. Just because they're not an existential threat to France itself doesn't mean they shouldn't be dealt with.

I never said they shouldn't be dealt with. All I'm saying is we need to put everything into context. Innocent people have died, and that is very upsetting, but knee jerk reactions aren't going to solve the issue. They want us to attack them. That is a recruiting strategy.

"Look at how the West invades our land and kills our people. Take up arms with your brothers in the name of Allah to destroy in infidels."

Us going there can do much more harm than good in the long run. Like I said, I don't have the answers, but I'm willing to listen to ideas that can solve this problem without "turning the Middle East into a parking lot."

I was going to reply to your response, but Wiz covered it well enough.

As far as knee jerk reaction, I don't think my response was knee jerk and I haven't anywhere in this thread said we needed boots on the ground. ISIS doesn't have to be a threat to overtake a country in order to be a threat. I'm not sure there is a way to bring ISIS to a grinding halt with troops. I will say that I don't think it should be just the U.S. We need global participation by all of the countries in the U.N. to do this and one country from Europe to lead this.

 

[GowerND11]

I was going to reply to your response, but Wiz covered it well enough.

As far as knee jerk reaction, I don't think my response was knee jerk and I haven't anywhere in this thread said we needed boots on the ground. ISIS doesn't have to be a threat to overtake a country in order to be a threat. I'm not sure there is a way to bring ISIS to a grinding halt with troops. I will say that I don't think it should be just the U.S. We need global participation by all of the countries in the U.N. to do this and one country from Europe to lead this.

I apologize, your response wasn't knee jerk, just meant to point that your response to him didn't necessarily fit his argument. I was talking in a generality when I said that. I do agree it needs to be a global effort. What's unfortunate is it's rarely global, but more the U.S. saying we will intervene, followed by other countries saying they'll "help."

 

[pumpdog20]

For all the ones wanting to send hundreds of thousands of boots on the ground, make sure you're signing your kids up for that.

 

[wizards8507]

For all the ones wanting to send hundreds of thousands of boots on the ground, make sure you're signing your kids up for that.

WHO is saying that? Literally nobody.

 

[pumpdog20]

WHO is saying that? Literally nobody.

LOL

 

[NorthDakota]

For all the ones wanting to send hundreds of thousands of boots on the ground, make sure you're signing your kids up for that.

What's the draft age limit? Let's wait until I surpass that to do this bold plan

 

[Whiskeyjack]

What's the draft age limit? Let's wait until I surpass that to do this bold plan

The Senate recently voted to require women to register for the draft. Globalists are all about equal opportunity! Soon every man, woman and child--regardless of age--will be eligible to serve as cannon fodder for the Imperium.

 

[zelezo vlk]

The Senate recently voted to require women to register for the draft. Globalists are all about equal opportunity! Soon every man, woman and child--regardless of age--will be eligible to serve as cannon fodder for the Imperium.

Sicily, I mean ISIS ain't gonna invade itself. I hear they got gold and oil and shizz

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[ND NYC]

shifting gears a bit...

Arab Spring....overall do u think it was/is a good or a bad thing for Middle East?

 

[phgreek]

shifting gears a bit...

Arab Spring....overall do u think it was/is a good or a bad thing for Middle East?

Yes...anytime people can bring about change...I applaud it.

No...the entire world suffers when the middle east is not ruled by despot assholes, and the middle east itself spirals into a humanitarian crisis beyond anything a despot could impose.