Spring Practice Thread 2012

NDdomer2

Local Sports vBookie
Messages
17,050
Reaction score
3,875
Irishhog....There was an interview this last year, perhaps last spring, that Kelly mentioned there is a small group of coaches (including Chip Kelly) that discuss offense in the off-season. They called it the "One Back." He mentioned that it can be ran from shotgun, pistol, or under center. This makes me think your thought on him not having a "system" and, as you said, being eternally wedded to it is the case. His offense is constantly evolving to maximize the style of play and personnel.
 

N_D_Fighting_Irish

THE INSTIGATOR
Messages
483
Reaction score
151
I'm kind of with Shark on this one. I know last year there was all kinds of discussion about what Kelly's offense should look like. I've tried to point out multiple times that a spread offense doesn't have to have a running QB or be run dominant. Likewise, it doesn't have to mean that it's an all out aerial attack (holy alliteration!) either. I've said it before and I'll say it again-- I think even Kelly may not know what his offense is suppose to look like. And I don't mean that in a negative way. In fact I mean that in a positive way-- that he isn't dead set on running a "system" and he is open to changing things on a season-to-season basis, or even within the season. If this is true (and I hope I am), then I think this where a lot of the uncertainty comes from presently at the QB position. The coaches are still determining what each guy can do well and what each guy can't do well, and how to properly evaluate all the variables. Look, I'm pretty sure they're not going to try to be a read option team if Rees is the guy. If they are to determine Rees is the guy that gives them the best chance to win, then they're probably tinkering with the playbook and still figuring out how he (and the team) can be most successful. If after deciphering all the data and evaluations of the QB's they decide, say, Hendrix gives them the best chance to win, then maybe we'll see a heavy dose of read option plays this year.

If Kelly is just a "system" guy and wedded eternally to it, then even guys like Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck could struggle mightily playing under him. I don't think this is the case with coach. At least I really hope this is not the case with him. I don't think it has to be all doom and gloom kind of like NDFightingIrish made it seem, but I think there is at least to some validity to what he brought up.

In so many ways, I think this is just a HUGE year for ND football...on and off the field.

Good points...except for the doom and gloom part. :)

If your rationale is more in line with what is going on with the QB situation, it is refreshing that Kelly would be willing to adjust his "system". Just to be a devil's advocate, why would Kelly want to adjust a system to fit a player who is quite honestly as physically limited as Rees. By doing so, is he not limiting the offense?
 

irishog77

NOT SINBAD's NEPHEW
Messages
7,441
Reaction score
2,206
irishog.. can you expand on why this is such a huge year for ND football? not putting you on blast, just want to know what you mean by that..

do you mean Kelly has to find the right QB for the future? Do you mean we put the future on hold for a little bit and go with Rees and we have to win 9 or 10 games? Is winning more important than finding the guy for the future? Do you think winning say 10 games is the difference between last year's pre-NSD class staying elite as apposed to kind of crumbling?

my take, I don't see a huge difference between 8 and 10 wins.. I feel like Golson or Kiel can get us 8 wins, and I don't think Rees is worth 3+ wins more than them.. maybe someone could shed some light on what a difference a couple wins means, but CW was pullin in some decent classes that were around the same as last year's class and he was winning like 6 games.. what's your take?

A one word answer to all of those-- yes! Lol

I think this is the year we may finally see if Kelly really is the right man for the job. I think it's okay logically to point out new system, growing pains, tragedies, and simply bad luck when trying to ultimately explain that Kelly is 16-10 in 2 years as ND HC, but there comes a point when they cease to be genuine reasons and simply start becoming excuses. I don't think there's any magical number of games the team has to win this year, but improvement must be shown. I think most rational fans can agree that the program is in better shape today than when Kelly took over, but it's tough to keep arguing, "Hey, I've improved __, ___, and ___, but yeah, the results on the field are basically the same.

I think we'll see this year if Kelly really is a "system" coach, or a guy that finds a way each week to win a game.

What will happen if we see Rees as the QB this year, but the same offense, more or less, and the same results? It won't be pretty. But, what if we see Rees as the QB, the same offense (more or less) and the W's start piling up? That would be interesting, to say the least.

If ND goes 8-5, how is the recruiting class going to look come February of '13? Probably not great. If ND goes 11-2, how will the recruiting class look? Hopefully pretty damn special. If not, then why the hell not?

Kelly got rid of a couple coaches this offseason that, now, word is weren't buying into Kelly (1 of those coaches was every bit a "Kelly guy," he'd been with him before and they coached together before), and replaced them with guys that seemingly have and will continue to buy in as "Kelly guys." Will this change the results on the field though?

What will be the staff and administrations response to losing guys like Lynch and Shepard (for sure) and even some of the other almosts (Darby, Greenberry, Armstead(s), Schutt)? I don't mean that that the staff, AD, and/or administration has to call a press conference and respond to each instance. I mean, even behind closed doors, what will be their plan to limit this from happening again or to help insure that they can keep these guys onboard? Also, are any more guys leaving the program this year??? Yikes!

How will Kelly address the small recruiting class from this year and some of the overload at certain positions in certain cycles?

How is the development of the QB's (not just the starter-- all of them) going? After 3 offseasons and 3 seasons at the helm, guys need to be improving significantly. If they aren't, then does Kelly and/or Molnar or Martin really need to be coaching them?

Where do Floyd, Smith, and any others go in the draft this year? Even more, what type of rookie years do they have? And going further, what will the draft stock of next year's ND guys look like? After 3 years, are Kelly and the program truly helping guys and coaching them up to get into the league?

I obviously don't know the answer to all of these, but I think we'll have a pretty clear view after this season. And I think (THINK) Kelly can get this stuff done, but we shall see.
 
M

Me2SouthBend

Guest
That D Line looks nasty. Those are some big boys. Nix, Tuitt, KLM, Sheldon, Kona and Chase are all very powerful individuals that opposing O Lines are going to have trouble with. Can't wait. That move at the end of the video by Tuitt was just a bit athletic, as Elston pointed out w a chuckle.
 

FightingIrishLover7

All troll, no substance
Messages
12,703
Reaction score
7,514
Elston is dripping with swag... HAHAHA...

Mike is definitely one of my favorite assistants. Although, I like them all.
 

NDinL.A.

New member
Messages
8,121
Reaction score
1,734
Step up? What the heck is that? Coaches choose who plays and the player that plays is often characterized as having "stepped up" after the fact. Hendrix and Golson may have stepped up but we don't know and it really doesn't matter because only one person makes that decision. You recall Kevin Mcdougal? He apparently didn't step up until he was forced to play due to another player getting hurt. This impression that Hendrix or Golson somehow have not taken the necessary actions to win some playing time is baloney.

Blame the coaches? They are the ones who determine who plays and who doesn't. Is it me or were there not ample opportunities for Kelly to get Hendrix or Golson game experience last year? At times it was as though Kelly was determined NOT to play them. Is it the players fault for not being given an opportunity?

After the fact??? I'm talking about RIGHT NOW. I'm talking about what every single ND reporter I've read has said about the QB situation. I'm talking about every coach that I talked to at the coaches clinic after they witnessed practice. I'm talking about every single podcast I've listened to. You're dealing in complete guesses, and I'm dealing in reality. And the reality is that neither Golson nor Hendrix has stepped up (yet).

And how is it 'baloney'? Because you say so? Let me ask you this: Have you see a practice? Have you read a 2 reports that have said Golson has played better? Have you read 2 reports that have said that Hendrix is out-playing Rees? Well, I've read, listened to, and spoken with dozens of people THAT ARE THERE that have said Rees is outplaying them. But you expect me to listen to some anonymous poster who has hated Kely from the jump over what people in and out of the program have said? Sorry...you have the wrong guy.

As for McDougal...nice example. Now, do you want me to name the thousands of back-ups who have gotten into a game and sucked balls? Do you want to play a game where you name a back-up QB who has excelled and I name you 20 that haven't? I love it when guys name exceptions to rules as their main argument.

Look, I agree that Kelly should have played Hendrix more late last year. I was furious with him for that. Believe me, I'd rather have an athletic QB take the reigns. But sorry, I completely disagree with anyone who blames the coaches for the younger guys not performing better than Rees. The young hoppers need to step their game up, and I guarantee you they'd be the first ones to admit that.
 

Ndaccountant

Old Hoss
Messages
8,370
Reaction score
5,771
After the fact??? I'm talking about RIGHT NOW. I'm talking about what every single ND reporter I've read has said about the QB situation. I'm talking about every coach that I talked to at the coaches clinic after they witnessed practice. I'm talking about every single podcast I've listened to. You're dealing in complete guesses, and I'm dealing in reality. And the reality is that neither Golson nor Hendrix has stepped up (yet).

And how is it 'baloney'? Because you say so? Let me ask you this: Have you see a practice? Have you read a 2 reports that have said Golson has played better? Have you read 2 reports that have said that Hendrix is out-playing Rees? Well, I've read, listened to, and spoken with dozens of people THAT ARE THERE that have said Rees is outplaying them. But you expect me to listen to some anonymous poster who has hated Kely from the jump over what people in and out of the program have said? Sorry...you have the wrong guy.

As for McDougal...nice example. Now, do you want me to name the thousands of back-ups who have gotten into a game and sucked balls? Do you want to play a game where you name a back-up QB who has excelled and I name you 20 that haven't? I love it when guys name exceptions to rules as their main argument.

Look, I agree that Kelly should have played Hendrix more late last year. I was furious with him for that. Believe me, I'd rather have an athletic QB take the reigns. But sorry, I completely disagree with anyone who blames the coaches for the younger guys not performing better than Rees. The young hoppers need to step their game up, and I guarantee you they'd be the first ones to admit that.

who, me?

1423982_display_image.jpg
 

Patulski

www.ndnation.com
Messages
878
Reaction score
138
If Rees is indeed the starter come game 1, I don't think it means he's really stepped up his game, nor does it mean Golson and Hendrix didn't improve. If Rees is the starter against Navy, it could simply mean he's still the best option. It doesn't have to be a situation of absolutes regarding him, Golson, and Hendrix as others have suggested (not overtly, but that's kind of inferred by reading the posts).

If Rees is the best option, without stepping up his game, we're in for a long season. You simply cannot have your QB turn the ball over that much and be a BCS program. Worse, it will mean that Rees has not developed, which was one of the hopes of Kelly as a head coach. If Kelly can't develop Rees from becoming less turnover prone, and can't develop two QB's he's had two years with to beat out a turnover prone QB, it's not a good sign.
 

BestBIrish47

Well-known member
Messages
1,697
Reaction score
195
One moment in time!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GJ9_Rl291m4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

RuntheBall

Well-known member
Messages
1,270
Reaction score
69
Sorry if has been posted:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5ftpkEW0qGY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

irishog77

NOT SINBAD's NEPHEW
Messages
7,441
Reaction score
2,206
If Rees is the best option, without stepping up his game, we're in for a long season. You simply cannot have your QB turn the ball over that much and be a BCS program. Worse, it will mean that Rees has not developed, which was one of the hopes of Kelly as a head coach. If Kelly can't develop Rees from becoming less turnover prone, and can't develop two QB's he's had two years with to beat out a turnover prone QB, it's not a good sign.

You're right. I should have put more emphasis on the word REALLY in my OP on that. A Tommy that played the exact same way as last year in not an improvement in any way, shape, or form. But if he improves some (say, doesn't throw pics, takes care of the ball better, etc.) then it could be a different ball game on the matter.

Note-- this isn't a defense of Tommy Rees starting by me. I'm just dealing in hypotheticals.
 

BestBIrish47

Well-known member
Messages
1,697
Reaction score
195
I expect footage of the fumble by Dilllingham against BC to be coming soon. :alcohol:

I choose not to acknowledge that ever happened. 8-0, those bright Green Jerseys, so many fumbles..that INT... the Long flight back to Texas for me.... that didn't happen.
 

DANsanity15

Wildcat QB
Messages
230
Reaction score
8
Watched the highlights of saturdays practice. In one drill Josh Atkinson got somewhat layed out by the ball carrier, but he looked pretty quick. Anyone hearing anything on his spot on the depth chart at corner?
 

Zbi

New member
Messages
165
Reaction score
6
The important thing I saw from the video was how awesome Tuitt's facemask looks.
 

Emcee77

latress on the men-jay
Messages
7,295
Reaction score
555
Yeah, Cooks said a couple weeks ago that he was a natural boundary corner with his aggressiveness, physicality and athleticism and that he was probably going to back up Bennett at that spot, but last week and over the weekend it started to sound like he might be our second best corner so he might get the starting spot at field corner. Kelly said something like if you could combine Atkinson's speed with Lo Wood's technique you'd have a hell of a player, so I guess if Atkinson can get his technique down he will be a hell of a player.
 

N_D_Fighting_Irish

THE INSTIGATOR
Messages
483
Reaction score
151
After the fact??? I'm talking about RIGHT NOW. I'm talking about what every single ND reporter I've read has said about the QB situation. I'm talking about every coach that I talked to at the coaches clinic after they witnessed practice. I'm talking about every single podcast I've listened to. You're dealing in complete guesses, and I'm dealing in reality. And the reality is that neither Golson nor Hendrix has stepped up (yet).

And how is it 'baloney'? Because you say so? Let me ask you this: Have you see a practice? Have you read a 2 reports that have said Golson has played better? Have you read 2 reports that have said that Hendrix is out-playing Rees? Well, I've read, listened to, and spoken with dozens of people THAT ARE THERE that have said Rees is outplaying them. But you expect me to listen to some anonymous poster who has hated Kely from the jump over what people in and out of the program have said? Sorry...you have the wrong guy.

As for McDougal...nice example. Now, do you want me to name the thousands of back-ups who have gotten into a game and sucked balls? Do you want to play a game where you name a back-up QB who has excelled and I name you 20 that haven't? I love it when guys name exceptions to rules as their main argument.

Look, I agree that Kelly should have played Hendrix more late last year. I was furious with him for that. Believe me, I'd rather have an athletic QB take the reigns. But sorry, I completely disagree with anyone who blames the coaches for the younger guys not performing better than Rees. The young hoppers need to step their game up, and I guarantee you they'd be the first ones to admit that.

Do you think I am surprised that Rees is outplaying Golson and Hendrix IN PRACTICE? Like I stated before, Rees should be outplaying Golson and Hendrix in practice. He has had enough game experience to walk through practice without a sweat. Rees performing well in practice against Golson (who hasn't played a snap in college football) and Hendrix (who was thrown into the Stanford trees) should be expected. That is why I think this QB competition is BS.

What is the point of Kelly announcing a QB competition? A motivation tool for Rees? Really? Or does he think that we need to go to another direction? If that is the case, why did he limit the offense this spring? When is Golson or Hendrix going to practice the full offense?..against Navy? Come on. I hope I am DEAD WRONG SO YOU CAN SAY I TOLD YOU SO, but rationally Kelly's decisions are just not adding up.

I am believe in a Lincoln style of leadership. You continually replace ineffective. You keep replacing until you have a hardass that gets the job done.
 

FLDomer

Polish Hammer
Messages
3,227
Reaction score
510
Do you think I am surprised that Rees is outplaying Golson and Hendrix IN PRACTICE? Like I stated before, Rees should be outplaying Golson and Hendrix in practice. He has had enough game experience to walk through practice without a sweat. Rees performing well in practice against Golson (who hasn't played a snap in college football) and Hendrix (who was thrown into the Stanford trees) should be expected. That is why I think this QB competition is BS.

What is the point of Kelly announcing a QB competition? A motivation tool for Rees? Really? Or does he think that we need to go to another direction? If that is the case, why did he limit the offense this spring? When is Golson or Hendrix going to practice the full offense?..against Navy? Come on. I hope I am DEAD WRONG SO YOU CAN SAY I TOLD YOU SO, but rationally Kelly's decisions are just not adding up.

I am believe in a Lincoln style of leadership. You continually replace ineffective. You keep replacing until you have a hardass that gets the job done.

Make the bad man stop!!!!!!!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: tko

rocket66

New member
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
89
Um, Sheldon Day is going to be really really good. Very impressed with what I've seen from the practice vids.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
Finally! Did anyone see the tape I saw. Next to Elston Day hit the bags the hardest. He had all the techniques down, he was under control, and next to that eyepoping move of Tuitts, reaching down and picking up the ball on the gallop, he was up there with KLM. AND KLM IS GOING TO HAVE A GREAT YEAR. Oh, by the way, Stocton will even be able to play.

Watch the penalties go down, losses and sacks go up, opponents running yardage go down, and holes remain filled, like a cork superglued up you @ss.

I mean it this is an incredibly matched defensive line. Speed quickness and lethal strength. Some people are going to get acknowledgement on the national stage, and some people are going to get hurt, (opponents).
 

Patulski

www.ndnation.com
Messages
878
Reaction score
138
I think he limited the offense to give Golson, Kiel and Hendrix a better chance to compete against Rees. If he had the entire offense in, and had the offense playing against the defense with their entire blitz packages in, Rees would be at a tremendous advantage. Rees has seen every blitz imaginable, as well as a drop 8 strategy. Having experienced this in real time game situations, he would instinctively have a leg up. Playing QB today with all the blitz packages is very complex, and no amount of film study can emulate doing it live. Only by reducing the offense, and I presume the defense, to a reduced package can he get a fair look at all 4 QB's. I think he assumes that if one (or more) QB's is better than Rees at each level, Rees will be replaced. So, he starts with level 1 and works his way up. That makes perfect sense to me if you want to evaluate all 4 QB's.

What is the point of Kelly announcing a QB competition? A motivation tool for Rees? Really? Or does he think that we need to go to another direction? If that is the case, why did he limit the offense this spring? When is Golson or Hendrix going to practice the full offense?..against Navy? Come on. I hope I am DEAD WRONG SO YOU CAN SAY I TOLD YOU SO, but rationally Kelly's decisions are just not adding up.

I am believe in a Lincoln style of leadership. You continually replace ineffective. You keep replacing until you have a hardass that gets the job done.
 
Top