Spring Practice Thread 2012

N_D_Fighting_Irish

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Calm your ****. I don't like it either, but the practice reports almost unanimously have him as the current leader for the starting job. BTW, Kiel does not give us a better chance to win than Tommy.

You stated that you were convinced Tommy was the best option. Was just asking why? Tommy should be exceling in practice! Don't underestimate the value of game experience. This qb competition is really BS...You really can't fairly evaluate QBs that differ in game experience.
 

greyhammer90

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If there is a God, it will be Golson.

tommyrees.png

If it's an ironic or cruel god, it will be Golson and he will be turnover prone.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Wow, let me get this straight. In these posts here your arguement was caused because you didn't even know what quarterback each other was talking about? Wow. That shiit cray!
 

NDdomer2

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Wow, let me get this straight. In these posts here your arguement was caused because you didn't even know what quarterback each other was talking about? Wow. That shiit cray!

Now wait a minute, I knew who I was discussing. There was just some talk of Golson as well and I think it got confusing with two discussions going on at once.
 

Domina Nostra

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Tommy has 16 starts under his belt (for a reason) and we are less than 4 months removed from the last game. Didn't people expect him to look the best? But it is pretty hard to argue that he is not limited physically compared to our other QBs. Prediction: Tommy would be a steady option since you would expect the TOs to decrease as a junior, but I don't see a ton of upside and we could really use a mobile QB in this offense to really exploit its potential.

Hendrix' issue is that he has not played a lot of QB in a pass-heavy system. This has NOTHING to do with arm strength, accuracy, or intelligence. It has to do with the kind of decision-making that comes from experience. I don't see how that improves dramatically over February and March, but it will improve with more reps. He brings mobility, a big arm, confidence, and intelligence, but I think he limits our passing game since there is not a lot of reason to trust him to make complicated reads. Prediction: Hendrix will become an important change-of-pace guy, but I doubt the staff sees him as a starter at this point.

Golson is a little slim and that is likely not to change in the short-term. He has all the talent in the world, but he makes rookie mistakes and gets careless. These are the easiest kind of problems to solve and the kind that almost always do get solved through reps. I think he starts once the coaches feel he starts to embody leadership on and off the field. Prediction: Golson is being groomed to be the starter, but they will go with Tommy if Golson doesn't clean up his act a little (not a character thing, and underclassmen thing).

Looks like Kiel is the real deal. No need to push him too fast because he seems like a sensitive kid and he is humble enough to wait his turn. I think he will be a real player next spring. Prediction: redshirt UNLESS the season tanks.
 
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ChiRish

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Isn't it entirely possible that Golson is simply a player who is much better on the game field than practice field? I understand how important practice is and by extension, showing the coaches that you can handle footwork and ball security. But I don't think anyone can argue that from a pure playmaking standpoint, Golson is the best option. Look back at his tape; he was dominant.

I'd have to think that if this stuff about the staff being the highest on him is true, then they must think something along the same lines. This is especially true given that Golson has been far from the most consistent practice performer.

For me, the bottom line is to put pressure on the defense. Tommy Rees may have a higher grasp of the system right now, but what is the ceiling for his play within that grasp? Certainly it cannot be as high as any of the three other quarterbacks.

My guess is that come saturday, after hearing the ups and downs of Golson's practices on a near daily basis for the past few weeks, he'll come out and make a few plays like last year that show you just how high his ceiling is. Much, much higher than Rees.
 

IrishMoore1

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You have take your lumps at some point. We should be starting one of the other younger qb's to get experience this year. Whoever it is will struggle, but he will be ready for 2013. We start Tommy in 2012 and then what? We'll be having the same exact discussion/debate next spring of who the qb should be.
 

GoldenIsThyFame

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Assistant coaches were suppose to be available after practice today but that was cancelled last night...
 

DillonHall

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You stated that you were convinced Tommy was the best option. Was just asking why? Tommy should be exceling in practice! Don't underestimate the value of game experience. This qb competition is really BS...You really can't fairly evaluate QBs that differ in game experience.

Yeah, you're exactly right that Rees has an advantage over the others. That's why I think that he's going to start. He's the least talented, but he's still the most prepared. Kelly's going to have to take a leap of faith in choosing Hendrix or Golson, and I'm just not so sure that he's willing to do so.

I've been consistent on this...Sacrifice 2012 (get Golson or Hendrix experience) and aim big for 2013, 2014, etc.
 
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FLDomer

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OMG!! Can we stop with all the speculating and over analizing of everything!?!?!?! I need a freaken drink!
 

condoms SUCk

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Umm this makes you wonder whats really going on?

hmmmm, I mean it could be that BK just wants to take a load off the assistant coaches plate since B/G gams is this weekend, well that's my thought anyway. I hope it’s nothing more than that, I don't think I can take another issue or problem to pop up with this team!!!!!
 

N_D_Fighting_Irish

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Yeah, you're exactly right that Rees has an advantage over the others. That's why I think that he's going to start. He's the least talented, but he's still the most prepared. Kelly's going to have to take a leap of faith in choosing Hendrix or Golson, and I'm just not so sure that he's willing to do so.

I've been consistent on this...Sacrifice 2012 (get Golson or Hendrix experience) and aim big for 2013, 2014, etc.

Every decision is to a degree a leap of faith. What blows my mind is this BS Qb competition? Don't you think that this staff should have a good idea of what each qb can or cannot do by now. The problem with the Qb position is not the players but the direction of coach. Who are we? Are we going to play spread or are we not? Tommy is not the QB for Kelly's offense... Either Kelly changes his style or he changes Qb...the reason why we have this BS QB competition is because in my opinion Kelly doesn't know what to do. When he made the decision to not play any QB other than Rees, he set the program back a year...this is his first year all over again.
 

NDinL.A.

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Every decision is to a degree a leap of faith. What blows my mind is this BS Qb competition? Don't you think that this staff should have a good idea of what each qb can or cannot do by now. The problem with the Qb position is not the players but the direction of coach. Who are we? Are we going to play spread or are we not? Tommy is not the QB for Kelly's offense... Either Kelly changes his style or he changes Qb...the reason why we have this BS QB competition is because in my opinion Kelly doesn't know what to do. When he made the decision to not play any QB other than Rees, he set the program back a year...this is his first year all over again.

Sooooo....it's on the coaches that the young players haven't stepped up??? It's the coaches' fault that Rees has gotten better (how dare they help him improve!!!)??? It's on the coaches that Golson shows up late to a meeting? It's on the coaches that Golson can't hold on to the ball and follows up one nice throw with two awful throws? It's on the coaches that Hendrix hangs his head and can't take shake off bad plays the way a QB/leader should?

The only thing that's on the coaches is that they need to do everything in their power to get these guys better. And eventually, it's on the players to step up. Rees has half the talent of the other QBs but he's raised his game and he battles his *** off. I respect the hell outta that kid, because he's such a damn competitor (and this is coming from someone who wanted Hendrix or Golson to start).

I know the easy thing to do is blame the coaches (which you have done basically since you joined this site. But you win with talent, you win with players. And the bottom line is, these players have to step the hell up. Every single practice report we've read since camp started has said that Golson and Hendrix are not playing nearly as well as Rees. How in the hell is that on the coaches???
 

IrishMoore1

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It's not the coaches. Chuck Martin put it best when he said what he told the qb's: "We don't decide who plays. You do"
 
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Sooooo....it's on the coaches that the young players haven't stepped up??? It's the coaches' fault that Rees has gotten better (how dare they help him improve!!!)??? It's on the coaches that Golson shows up late to a meeting? It's on the coaches that Golson can't hold on to the ball and follows up one nice throw with two awful throws? It's on the coaches that Hendrix hangs his head and can't take shake off bad plays the way a QB/leader should?

The only thing that's on the coaches is that they need to do everything in their power to get these guys better. And eventually, it's on the players to step up. Rees has half the talent of the other QBs but he's raised his game and he battles his *** off. I respect the hell outta that kid, because he's such a damn competitor (and this is coming from someone who wanted Hendrix or Golson to start).

I know the easy thing to do is blame the coaches (which you have done basically since you joined this site. But you win with talent, you win with players. And the bottom line is, these players have to step the hell up. Every single practice report we've read since camp started has said that Golson and Hendrix are not playing nearly as well as Rees. How in the hell is that on the coaches???

I agree with most of this.. however that original poster brought up a decent point IMO.. "what is the direction of the offense?".. not that I'm siding with anyone, but I think it's an area of the discussion that could be further expanded upon.. I know we want to run the ball more, but we don't exactly have a "bruiser".. what are we doing on 3rd and 3? how are we going to move the ball as effectively as we want to (against good teams) when they don't respect Rees' running ability? With no Floyd, who's stretching the field and going to make down field plays, and can Rees get it there?

I guess I'm looking for input from people that have observed the practices that can maybe answer these questions.. it's not my intentions to bash you NDinLA, just wanted to open up the conversation a little bit and get input on these questions from observers.. I thought you made some really good points in your post, FWIW
 

N_D_Fighting_Irish

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Sooooo....it's on the coaches that the young players haven't stepped up??? It's the coaches' fault that Rees has gotten better (how dare they help him improve!!!)??? It's on the coaches that Golson shows up late to a meeting? It's on the coaches that Golson can't hold on to the ball and follows up one nice throw with two awful throws? It's on the coaches that Hendrix hangs his head and can't take shake off bad plays the way a QB/leader should?

The only thing that's on the coaches is that they need to do everything in their power to get these guys better. And eventually, it's on the players to step up. Rees has half the talent of the other QBs but he's raised his game and he battles his *** off. I respect the hell outta that kid, because he's such a damn competitor (and this is coming from someone who wanted Hendrix or Golson to start).

I know the easy thing to do is blame the coaches (which you have done basically since you joined this site. But you win with talent, you win with players. And the bottom line is, these players have to step the hell up. Every single practice report we've read since camp started has said that Golson and Hendrix are not playing nearly as well as Rees. How in the hell is that on the coaches???

Step up? What the heck is that? Coaches choose who plays and the player that plays is often characterized as having "stepped up" after the fact. Hendrix and Golson may have stepped up but we don't know and it really doesn't matter because only one person makes that decision. You recall Kevin Mcdougal? He apparently didn't step up until he was forced to play due to another player getting hurt. This impression that Hendrix or Golson somehow have not taken the necessary actions to win some playing time is baloney.

Blame the coaches? They are the ones who determine who plays and who doesn't. Is it me or were there not ample opportunities for Kelly to get Hendrix or Golson game experience last year? At times it was as though Kelly was determined NOT to play them. Is it the players fault for not being given an opportunity?
 
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irishog77

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Every decision is to a degree a leap of faith. What blows my mind is this BS Qb competition? Don't you think that this staff should have a good idea of what each qb can or cannot do by now. The problem with the Qb position is not the players but the direction of coach. Who are we? Are we going to play spread or are we not? Tommy is not the QB for Kelly's offense... Either Kelly changes his style or he changes Qb...the reason why we have this BS QB competition is because in my opinion Kelly doesn't know what to do. When he made the decision to not play any QB other than Rees, he set the program back a year...this is his first year all over again.

Sooooo....it's on the coaches that the young players haven't stepped up??? It's the coaches' fault that Rees has gotten better (how dare they help him improve!!!)??? It's on the coaches that Golson shows up late to a meeting? It's on the coaches that Golson can't hold on to the ball and follows up one nice throw with two awful throws? It's on the coaches that Hendrix hangs his head and can't take shake off bad plays the way a QB/leader should?

The only thing that's on the coaches is that they need to do everything in their power to get these guys better. And eventually, it's on the players to step up. Rees has half the talent of the other QBs but he's raised his game and he battles his *** off. I respect the hell outta that kid, because he's such a damn competitor (and this is coming from someone who wanted Hendrix or Golson to start).

I know the easy thing to do is blame the coaches (which you have done basically since you joined this site. But you win with talent, you win with players. And the bottom line is, these players have to step the hell up. Every single practice report we've read since camp started has said that Golson and Hendrix are not playing nearly as well as Rees. How in the hell is that on the coaches???

I agree with most of this.. however that original poster brought up a decent point IMO.. "what is the direction of the offense?".. not that I'm siding with anyone, but I think it's an area of the discussion that could be further expanded upon.. I know we want to run the ball more, but we don't exactly have a "bruiser".. what are we doing on 3rd and 3? how are we going to move the ball as effectively as we want to (against good teams) when they don't respect Rees' running ability? With no Floyd, who's stretching the field and going to make down field plays, and can Rees get it there?

I guess I'm looking for input from people that have observed the practices that can maybe answer these questions.. it's not my intentions to bash you NDinLA, just wanted to open up the conversation a little bit and get input on these questions from observers.. I thought you made some really good points in your post, FWIW

I'm kind of with Shark on this one. I know last year there was all kinds of discussion about what Kelly's offense should look like. I've tried to point out multiple times that a spread offense doesn't have to have a running QB or be run dominant. Likewise, it doesn't have to mean that it's an all out aerial attack (holy alliteration!) either. I've said it before and I'll say it again-- I think even Kelly may not know what his offense is suppose to look like. And I don't mean that in a negative way. In fact I mean that in a positive way-- that he isn't dead set on running a "system" and he is open to changing things on a season-to-season basis, or even within the season. If this is true (and I hope I am), then I think this where a lot of the uncertainty comes from presently at the QB position. The coaches are still determining what each guy can do well and what each guy can't do well, and how to properly evaluate all the variables. Look, I'm pretty sure they're not going to try to be a read option team if Rees is the guy. If they are to determine Rees is the guy that gives them the best chance to win, then they're probably tinkering with the playbook and still figuring out how he (and the team) can be most successful. If after deciphering all the data and evaluations of the QB's they decide, say, Hendrix gives them the best chance to win, then maybe we'll see a heavy dose of read option plays this year.

If Kelly is just a "system" guy and wedded eternally to it, then even guys like Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck could struggle mightily playing under him. I don't think this is the case with coach. At least I really hope this is not the case with him. I don't think it has to be all doom and gloom kind of like NDFightingIrish made it seem, but I think there is at least to some validity to what he brought up.

In so many ways, I think this is just a HUGE year for ND football...on and off the field.
 
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irishog.. can you expand on why this is such a huge year for ND football? not putting you on blast, just want to know what you mean by that..

do you mean Kelly has to find the right QB for the future? Do you mean we put the future on hold for a little bit and go with Rees and we have to win 9 or 10 games? Is winning more important than finding the guy for the future? Do you think winning say 10 games is the difference between last year's pre-NSD class staying elite as apposed to kind of crumbling?

my take, I don't see a huge difference between 8 and 10 wins.. I feel like Golson or Kiel can get us 8 wins, and I don't think Rees is worth 3+ wins more than them.. maybe someone could shed some light on what a difference a couple wins means, but CW was pullin in some decent classes that were around the same as last year's class and he was winning like 6 games.. what's your take?
 

STLcardz-NDirish

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You have take your lumps at some point. We should be starting one of the other younger qb's to get experience this year. Whoever it is will struggle, but he will be ready for 2013. We start Tommy in 2012 and then what? We'll be having the same exact discussion/debate next spring of who the qb should be.

exactly
 
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