Silly Season 2015/2016 (Coaching Changes)

[IrishLion]

they had a previous coach who had to do a sky dive to fund raise so the coach's office could get toilets installed. that tells you a lot about the state of the program lol. Creighton getting them to a bowl game was a huge accomplishment.

"Skydive 4 Toilets!" might be the best fundraiser ever haha

 

[koonja]

Maybe Les doesn't deserve to be picky, but I bet his buy out and what he'll be paid out allows him to be picky.

 

[BobbyMac]

I think this proves Fleck was always leaving this year. He basically had to.

He was going to have to figure out how to stay on top without Terrell and Davis, two guys who dominated the MAC. If he comes back and finishes second to Toledo or worse, if EMU finishes above him, it proves he no longer has a magic wand. Western may have had the best recruiting classes in the MAC but the gap over the contenders isn't like the gap Boise had over the rest of the Mountain West. Is Minnesota a great job? No, but it's 3x better than Western Michigan.

Lil Pitino even has the hoops team around 15-2.

Minnesota making moves.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I think this is a bad move for Fleck. Look at the schools that could have an opening next year......ND, UCLA, Tennessee, Arizona State, Boston College, Texas Tech, A&M, etc. All of those places would be better than what Minny offers you right now. I get the idea that he could structure a contract in a certain way, so we will have to wait and see.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I think this proves Fleck was always leaving this year. He basically had to.

He was going to have to figure out how to stay on top without Terrell and Davis, two guys who dominated the MAC. If he comes back and finishes second to Toledo or worse, if EMU finishes above him, it proves he no longer has a magic wand. Western may have had the best recruiting classes in the MAC but the gap over the contenders isn't like the gap Boise had over the rest of the Mountain West. Is Minnesota a great job? No, but it's 3x better than Western Michigan.

Lil Pitino even has the hoops team around 15-2.

Minnesota making moves.

Yea, but I don't think he needed to go 11-1 or 10-2 next year. He needed to show up in September and hang tough in the OOC games. From there, he could have pulled a Herman and not win the conference and still win a better gig than Minny.

 

[dublinirish]

I think this is a bad move for Fleck. Look at the schools that could have an opening next year......ND, UCLA, Tennessee, Arizona State, Boston College, Texas Tech, A&M, etc. All of those places would be better than what Minny offers you right now. I get the idea that he could structure a contract in a certain way, so we will have to wait and see.

i think when Oregon didnt even offer him an interview he saw the writing was on the wall for him. Minnesota is a good place for him. He's just not going to fit in at a blue blood power. Look at Schiano at Rutgers that was a perfect fit for him because they had no culture there and he could create one from scratch, Fleck can do a similar thing for the Gophers

 

[Ndaccountant]

i think when Oregon didnt even offer him an interview he saw the writing was on the wall for him. Minnesota is a good place for him. He's just not going to fit in at a blue blood power. Look at Schiano at Rutgers that was a perfect fit for him because they had no culture there and he could create one from scratch, Fleck can do a similar thing for the Gophers

I think it is a mistake to equate the Oregon situation with all the the schools on that list.

W/R/T Schiano, he was more or less returning "home" when he went to Rutgers and didn't have any prior collegiate HC experience. While the schools situation may be analogous, I am not sure I think the coaching hires / circumstances are.

 

[woolybug25]

Yea, but I don't think he needed to go 11-1 or 10-2 next year. He needed to show up in September and hang tough in the OOC games. From there, he could have pulled a Herman and not win the conference and still win a better gig than Minny.

Totally agree. Taking this job extended out how long it will take him to get a tier 1 job. If he struggles at Minnesota, and lets face it that admin is horrid, then this could actually hurt his trajectory. He is actually returning a ton of starters at WMU and has the MAC's best recruiting class coming in. Not to mention, he's been recruiting really well before this class. He wins 9-10 games next year, no reason he wouldn't be getting interviewed for some elite gigs. Now, he's stuck at Minn for at least a couple years and better slay if he expects an elite program to pay his buyout.

 

[BobbyMac]

I think this is a bad move for Fleck. Look at the schools that could have an opening next year......ND, UCLA, Tennessee, Arizona State, Boston College, Texas Tech, A&M, etc. All of those places would be better than what Minny offers you right now. I get the idea that he could structure a contract in a certain way, so we will have to wait and see.

He's a young, midwest guy with midwest connections and limited coaching tree. ASU, BC, TTU are NOT better for PJ Fleck. They'd be horrible choices. The others I could argue either way but I don't think any of them are perfect fits.

Yea, but I don't think he needed to go 11-1 or 10-2 next year. He needed to show up in September and hang tough in the OOC games. From there, he could have pulled a Herman and not win the conference and still win a better gig than Minny.

He opens up 0-2 with @ SC, @ Mich St and then hosts a sleeper Idaho under the other Petrino before he goes into conference play without the guys that made his program.

Took the money and ran because he's smart. I only wish he would have taken the Purdue job so we would have known if he's a real miracle worker or if he got lucky with 3-4 transformational players in Kalamazoo.

 

[NDdomer2]

so much for all that conspiracy of him being the coach next year and staff moves being made accordingly.

 

[BobbyMac]

so much for all that conspiracy of him being the coach next year and staff moves being made accordingly.

Long and Elko are Saban hires. Conspiracy intact.

 

[IrishLion]

Long and Elko are Urban hires. Conspiracy intact.

FIFY, let's touch 'em all.

 

[woolybug25]

He's a young, midwest guy with midwest connections and limited coaching tree. ASU, BC, TTU are NOT better for PJ Fleck. They'd be horrible choices. The others I could argue either way but I don't think any of them are perfect fits.



He opens up 0-2 with @ SC, @ Mich St and then hosts a sleeper Idaho under the other Petrino before he goes into conference play without the guys that made his program.

Took the money and ran because he's smart. I only wish he would have taken the Purdue job so we would have known if he's a real miracle worker or if he got lucky with 3-4 transformational players in Kalamazoo.

The bottom part simply isn't true. That defense is solid and mixed with upper and lower class men. Guys like Tranquil, Phillips, Moton and Okofar are all really good players. He is returning a vastly higher talented team than any other MAC program. Not to mention, adding the conferences best recruiting class. Davis is no question a star, but they would have won the MAC without him.

 

[BobbyMac]

Long and Elko are Belichick hires. Conspiracy intact.

FIFY, let's touch 'em all.

Fixed it for YOU.

 

[Blaise]

Totally agree. Taking this job extended out how long it will take him to get a tier 1 job. If he struggles at Minnesota, and lets face it that admin is horrid, then this could actually hurt his trajectory. He is actually returning a ton of starters at WMU and has the MAC's best recruiting class coming in. Not to mention, he's been recruiting really well before this class. He wins 9-10 games next year, no reason he wouldn't be getting interviewed for some elite gigs. Now, he's stuck at Minn for at least a couple years and better slay if he expects an elite program to pay his buyout.

I don't think he has to slay it.. Win 8 or 9 games a year at Minnesota and the same people who would of liked him at Western will like him now... Herman beat Oklahoma... Its what guaranteed him getting a Tier 1 job this year no matter if they won 10 games or not. Fleck next year most likely wins maybe 9 games and his shine will be off and once again, the best jobs he will be offered are Minnesota or Purdue level jobs.. Why not just take it now

 

[Ndaccountant]

He's a young, midwest guy with midwest connections and limited coaching tree. ASU, BC, TTU are NOT better for PJ Fleck. They'd be horrible choices. The others I could argue either way but I don't think any of them are perfect fits.



He opens up 0-2 with @ SC, @ Mich St and then hosts a sleeper Idaho under the other Petrino before he goes into conference play without the guys that made his program.

Took the money and ran because he's smart. I only wish he would have taken the Purdue job so we would have known if he's a real miracle worker or if he got lucky with 3-4 transformational players in Kalamazoo.

I understand the Midwest connections, but if he is as charismatic as what is purported, he just needs a situation with a broad talent base. All the schools noted have established talent pools within a reasonable radius of the school. This map highlights that point. He may have more MW connections, but I think it is short sighted to jump at Minny considering how isolated that school is.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I only see 3 losses in Minnesota's schedule next year. They could easily start 7-0. Hell even 2018 doesn't look like a tough schedule.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I don't think he has to slay it.. Win 8 or 9 games a year at Minnesota and the same people who would of liked him at Western will like him now... Herman beat Oklahoma... Its what guaranteed him getting a Tier 1 job this year no matter if they won 10 games or not. Fleck next year most likely wins maybe 9 games and his shine will be off and once again, the best jobs he will be offered are Minnesota or Purdue level jobs.. Why not just take it now

Minny won 8, 8, 6, 9 games the last four years (the 6 win year is when Kill left mid-year). For Fleck to have a reasonable claim as a worthy coach, he would need to out perform those seasons. Not sure he is going to do much better than what they have been.

 

[woolybug25]

I don't think he has to slay it.. Win 8 or 9 games a year at Minnesota and the same people who would of liked him at Western will like him now... Herman beat Oklahoma... Its what guaranteed him getting a Tier 1 job this year no matter if they won 10 games or not. Fleck next year most likely wins maybe 9 games and his shine will be off and once again, the best jobs he will be offered are Minnesota or Purdue level jobs.. Why not just take it now

So let me give you a hypothetical. Say we win 8 games next year and BK gets the axe. His buyout was rumored to be $20M this year, so lets conservatively say that we would have a $10M buyout for BK.

So are you honestly telling me that we would be interested in buying out BK, buying out a $21M contract for Fleck, and do so after he won 9 games at Minnesota?

Yeah... not happening. Nor will it be likely at any other major program that has to pay a buyout to relieve their coach (ie Ta&m, UCLA, Ark, TxTech, etc), not to mention any Tier 1 job that will inexplicitly pop open (happens every year).

 

[woolybug25]

I only see 3 losses in Minnesota's schedule next year. They could easily start 7-0. Hell even 2018 doesn't look like a tough schedule.

I don't know why you think MSU will roll over for them (game 7). I politely disagree. I see five losses in Fleck's first year (MSU, Wisco, UM, Nebraska and one of NW/Iowa).

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

So let me give you a hypothetical. Say we win 8 games next year and BK gets the axe. His buyout was rumored to be $20M this year, so lets conservatively say that we would have a $10M buyout for BK.

So are you honestly telling me that we would be interested in buying out BK, buying out a $21M contract for Fleck, and do so after he won 9 games at Minnesota?

Yeah... not happening. Nor will it be likely at any other major program that has to pay a buyout to relieve their coach (ie Ta&m, UCLA, Ark, TxTech, etc), not to mention any Tier 1 job that will inexplicitly pop open (happens every year).

Well the last coach we hired away from Minnesota structured his contract so there was no buyout if ND hired him.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I don't know why you think MSU will roll over for them (game 7). I politely disagree. I see five losses in Fleck's first year (MSU, Wisco, UM, Nebraska and one of NW/Iowa).

And don't sleep on Oregon State either. Gary Anderson had them much improved and if the QB situation is fixed with Jake Luton, it will be a tough road game for Minny.

 

[BobbyMac]

The bottom part simply isn't true. That defense is solid and mixed with upper and lower class men. Guys like Tranquil, Phillips, Moton and Okofar are all really good players. He is returning a vastly higher talented team than any other MAC program. Not to mention, adding the conferences best recruiting class. Davis is no question a star, but they would have won the MAC without him.

Moton & Okorafor are part of the players I was referring to.

He has to replace his 4 yr starter at QB. The greatest football player in school history. One of the greatest lineman maybe in school history and return just Okorafor.

His current APR is lower than Toledo's. His incoming class's APR is currently .1 better than Toldeo's but Toledo has the best incoming freshman in the league in RB Michael Warren.

My take:

Toledo wins the MAC West next year. Jason Candle is the new PJ Fleck.

Western would have lost 4 reg season games with Fleck, I'll go 5 now.

 

[woolybug25]

Well the last coach we hired away from Minnesota structured his contract so there was no buyout if ND hired him.

Hey, I'm all for it if he put a ND clause in his contract. Doubt they did though.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I don't know why you think MSU will roll over for them (game 7). I politely disagree. I see five losses in Fleck's first year (MSU, Wisco, UM, Nebraska and one of NW/Iowa).

I see Iowa, Wisconsin, and Michigan as losses. There are a few I would lock I as wins (maybe I should've worded it better, I meant that I'd lock in as a loss) but I can easily see only loosing 3-4 games.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Hey, I'm all for it if he put a ND clause in his contract. Doubt they did though.

Me too

 

[gkIrish]

Hey, I'm all for it if he put a ND clause in his contract. Doubt they did though.

I think Fleck had a lot of bargaining power. Minnesota is not a desirable place to be. Especially not after they just fired their coach for something not related to football really.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Hey, I'm all for it if he put a ND clause in his contract. Doubt they did though.

Do people really do this anymore? I was very surprised to hear that John Schneider (GM for the Seahawks) had a clause in his contract that he can bolt for the GB job. Different leagues of course, but I would think that these just aren't in contracts anymore.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I see Iowa, Wisconsin, and Michigan as losses. There are a few I would lock I as wins (maybe I should've worded it better, I meant that I'd lock in as a loss) but I can easily see only loosing 3-4 games.

Okay....so that is not meaningfully better than what they were this year. He may be inheriting a dumpster fire w/r/t to the players attitude towards the administration, but this isn't Purdue from a W/L perspective. I doubt he takes Minnesota any further than where they are.

 

[woolybug25]

Moton & Okorafor are part of the players I was referring to.

He has to replace his 4 yr starter at QB. The greatest football player in school history. One of the greatest lineman maybe in school history and return just Okorafor.

His current APR is lower than Toledo's. His incoming class's APR is currently .1 better than Toldeo's but Toledo has the best incoming freshman in the league in RB Michael Warren.

My take:

Toledo wins the MAC West next year. Jason Candle is the new PJ Fleck.

Western would have lost 4 reg season games with Fleck, I'll go 5 now.

Has Okorafor even declared for the draft? Because I don't see that anywhere and he's a Junior. But let's say he does, you fail to mention that they are returning the other four offensive lineman and their ENTIRE defense outside of Keion.

I also think Terrel was a product of the offense and the fact that he had Davis. I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that Joe Flacco's little brother Tom (who played pretty well in mop up duty) will do pretty well there.

Your doom and gloom image is so far from the truth. If Fleck stayed, he loses only a couple players (albeit, one great player) and added a ton of talent.