Silly Season '13 (Coaching Changes)

[Cackalacky]

This was in fact the original premise. That within tiers, coaches almost never, ever move laterally. 1A never goes to 1A. 1B VERY RARELY goes to 1A. Tier 2 goes to Tier 1 with more regularity, but the most common jump is 2 tiers with a good up-and-coming coach. Tier 3 usually goes to Tier 1, Tier 4 usually goes to Tier 2, coordinators or Tier 5 usually go to Tier 3, etc.

Yeah it was a way back when you said this, but I am unsure that ND is actually a top tier program; however full disclosure: I do have to take lots of ridicule down here daily... so maybe the SEC bias has taken root.

 

[tussin]

I agree. I know Pennsylvania is a better recruiting area, but it's not close to Florida, Texas, or California. I see the same danger for PSU.

PA alone is good, not great. But PSU is actually in a good recruiting spot with not as much competition when you add in NJ, VA, NY, and the rest of NE. Think about all the great VA recruits this year, a bunch of those guys would probably be PSU commits during a normal year.

 

[NDohio]

I don't even know if it is a question that a 1A coach would come here. I would say no way. There is no way a coach from another 1A school comes here. We may get a NFL coach but for Urban Myer, Saban, or Chip Kelly (hypotheticals) to come here, much would have to change.

Its more of a question if can any coach come here and succeed? We will have to find the right guy and get the right kids at ND in order to succeed. Kelly seems like he is really close, or at least been the closest since Holtz left.

Sorry - Not my intent to suggest that a current 1A coach would come to ND. My point is if all the 1A programs had an opening would the absolute best tier 1B or tier 2 coaches have any interest in coming to ND(thus making it a tier 1A job) over those other 1A opportunities?

 

[Rhode Irish]

This is where I disagree with you and a few others. Nebraska and PSU has a history of being good. Go back to the Devaney days at Nebraska. They kicked everyone's butt and when Osborn took over they didn't miss a beat. They found recruits and have a long history of being among the elite programs. When JoePa was in his heyday, PSU was always near the top.

To me, you have to look at the programs entire history when you classify schools into 1A, 1B, etc.. If you want to use just the last 10-15 years then that's fine, but then you need to remove tradition from the equation.

I am looking at the entire history. Nebraska has a ton of wins and five national championships (two shared), although three of them came in a four year period in the nineties and 2 came in back-to-back years in the 70s. Penn State has won a fair amount of games but only 2 national titles (both in the 80s). I compare Nebraska to Texas historically, which I view as a compliment. They just don't have access to players now that Texas does. The teams I mentioned (ND, Michigan, USC and Alabama) are all in the top 10 for wins all-time and have won 11, 11, 11 and 15* titles, respectively. I just don't think you can realistically lump Nebraska or Penn State or Tennessee in with those teams, or even the next tier of Ohio State and Oklahoma. I think they are clearly on the third tier down, which is great and elite and everything else as far as tradition, but there is a clear line of demarcation there and they are further separated from those schools and even ones below them on the tradition ladder by their lack of access to players in the modern football world.

 

[Cackalacky]

Sorry - Not my intent to suggest that a current 1A coach would come to ND. My point is if all the 1A programs had an opening would the absolute best tier 1B or tier 2 coaches have any interest in coming to ND(thus making it a tier 1A job) over those other 1A opportunities?

I doubt it. Too many things that make ND tougher. For example this year look at USC, Texas, etc all had job openings and who they actually hired. All from much lower tier schools (even though Sark was a previous assistant).

No coach coming to ND will make it a 1A program. I am not even calling ND a 1A program. For me there are too many hamstrings for that.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I am looking at the entire history. Nebraska has a ton of wins and five national championships (two shared), although three of them came in a four year period in the nineties and 2 came in back-to-back years in the 70s. Penn State has won a fair amount of games but only 2 national titles (both in the 80s). I compare Nebraska to Texas historically, which I view as a compliment. They just don't have access to players now that Texas does. The teams I mentioned (ND, Michigan, USC and Alabama) are all in the top 10 for wins all-time and have won 11, 11, 11 and 15* titles, respectively. I just don't think you can realistically lump Nebraska or Penn State or Tennessee in with those teams, or even the next tier of Ohio State and Oklahoma. I think they are clearly on the third tier down, which is great and elite and everything else as far as tradition, but there is a clear line of demarcation there and they are further separated from those schools and even ones below them on the tradition ladder by their lack of access to players in the modern football world.

Okay. But "the entire history" says Princeton, Harvard, and Army are some of the best programs around. Obviously, that's not the case because the landscape changed dramatically. It won't be to the same extent (obviously), but I think the media age is causing another major shift.

 

[NDohio]

I doubt it. Too many things that make ND tougher. For example this year look at USC, Texas, etc all had job openings and who they actually hired. All from much lower tier schools (even though Sark was a previous assistant).

No coach coming to ND will make it a 1A program. I am not even calling ND a 1A program. For me there are too many hamstrings for that.

I feel like ND was very fortunate that BK really, really wanted this job. If he didn't become coach at ND I am fearful to think who would have.

John Gruden maybe?

 

[Cali_domer]

I feel like ND was very fortunate that BK really, really wanted this job. If he didn't become coach at ND I am fearful to think who would have.

John Gruden maybe?

Edsall would be my guess. Yikes

 

[Rhode Irish]

Okay. But "the entire history" says Princeton, Harvard, and Army are some of the best programs around. Obviously, that's not the case because the landscape changed dramatically. It won't be to the same extent (obviously), but I think the media age is causing another major shift.

Right, I was responding to a post that said I needed to look at the entire history. According to the criteria I am advocating for here, even if you counted Yale's and Army's histories, they don't have the resources and access to players to compete for national championships. They maybe get a B+ for history and Fs in the other two categories, so we don't need to waste a lot of time talking about them. I thought since they aren't even pretending to be a part of the same system as the other programs we are talking about we wouldn't need to address them.

 

[Cackalacky]

I feel like ND was very fortunate that BK really, really wanted this job. If he didn't become coach at ND I am fearful to think who would have.

John Gruden maybe?

Edsall would be my guess. Yikes

Agree we made a good choice with Kelly.

Edsall was hot that year. Glad we passed. I don't remember who was even available back then lol.

My biggest question with all this discussion is how assistants with no head coaching experience are valued. I dont think ND will go the Coordinator to HC route either.
Example: Muschamp was a DC primarily then leaves for HC at Florida (probably a 1A-1A swap but he went up to a HC from DC). Are there any legitimate Coordinators that can make a difference at ND? I guess recently Weiss was the only person since Holtz without any HC experience.

I also have to think that the head coach for North Dakota State has to be getting some love recently.

 

[arrowryan]

Agree we made a good choice with Kelly.

Edsall was hot that year. Glad we passed. I don't remember who was even available back then lol.

My biggest question with all this discussion is how assistants with no head coaching experience are valued. I dont think ND will go the Coordinator to HC route either.
Example: Muschamp was a DC primarily then leaves for HC at Florida (probably a 1A-1A swap but he went up to a HC from DC). Are there any legitimate Coordinators that can make a difference at ND?

I also have to think that the head coach for North Dakota State has be getting some love recently.

I think Kirby Smart would have the best chance at making a difference at Notre Dame, but I still don't know how good his chances would be

 

[NDohio]

Edsall would be my guess. Yikes

Dodged a bullet there.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Agree we made a good choice with Kelly.

Edsall was hot that year. Glad we passed. I don't remember who was even available back then lol.

My biggest question with all this discussion is how assistants with no head coaching experience are valued. I dont think ND will go the Coordinator to HC route either.
Example: Muschamp was a DC primarily then leaves for HC at Florida (probably a 1A-1A swap but he went up to a HC from DC). Are there any legitimate Coordinators that can make a difference at ND? I guess recently Weiss was the only person since Holtz without any HC experience.

I also have to think that the head coach for North Dakota State has to be getting some love recently.

Boob davie?

 

[Cackalacky]

Boob davie?

I though he had HC experience. I was wrong. So 0-2 on the coordinators?

BTW you avatar is f'ing creepy dude....

 

[NDohio]

Agree we made a good choice with Kelly.

Edsall was hot that year. Glad we passed. I don't remember who was even available back then lol.

My biggest question with all this discussion is how assistants with no head coaching experience are valued. I dont think ND will go the Coordinator to HC route either.
Example: Muschamp was a DC primarily then leaves for HC at Florida (probably a 1A-1A swap but he went up to a HC from DC). Are there any legitimate Coordinators that can make a difference at ND? I guess recently Weiss was the only person since Holtz without any HC experience.

I also have to think that the head coach for North Dakota State has to be getting some love recently.

I don't see ND giving a coordinator the head spot again.

Davie didn't have HC experience either.

 

[TK22867]

I also have to think that the head coach for North Dakota State has to be getting some love recently.

So much love that he was named the head coach of Wyoming in early December.

 

[Cackalacky]

So much love that he was named the head coach of Wyoming in early December.

LOL. I took December off. Dont remember much....LOL.

 

[Irish#1]

I think tradition is definitely part of the equation and Nebraska for sure, and to a slightly lesser degree PSU, have that.

What knocks them down a half-a-tier as a coaching job in my book are the things outside of that. Nebraska doesn't pay Tier 1 money, they pay Tier 2 money. That's a big negative. They also don't have elite recruiting ability anymore because of their location + other factors... they're generally taking the table scraps of Oklahoma, Texas, etc. every cycle which is not what you do if you're a Tier 1 destination. PSU has the sanctions and black mark of Sandusky. They're much closer to being Tier 1A, IMO, because they just need the right coach and some time to completely weather the storm. Nebraska seems dangerously close to regressing even further, I have less hope for them.

Unless somethings changed, they have access to those same players now like they did before. I think this is more a reflection of bad coaching hires and now Pelinis ability to recruit. Look at Missouri, they have something like 25 kids from Texas on their team. I agree that PSU has sanctions hampering them now, but that's not going to last.

I am looking at the entire history. Nebraska has a ton of wins and five national championships (two shared), although three of them came in a four year period in the nineties and 2 came in back-to-back years in the 70s. Penn State has won a fair amount of games but only 2 national titles (both in the 80s). I compare Nebraska to Texas historically, which I view as a compliment. They just don't have access to players now that Texas does. The teams I mentioned (ND, Michigan, USC and Alabama) are all in the top 10 for wins all-time and have won 11, 11, 11 and 15* titles, respectively. I just don't think you can realistically lump Nebraska or Penn State or Tennessee in with those teams, or even the next tier of Ohio State and Oklahoma. I think they are clearly on the third tier down, which is great and elite and everything else as far as tradition, but there is a clear line of demarcation there and they are further separated from those schools and even ones below them on the tradition ladder by their lack of access to players in the modern football world.

See above on Teaxs recruits.

To be honest and not taking a shot at Lax or anyone else, I think some are focusing or putting more emphasis on "today" and not really considering the past and tradition. Or at least the past and tradition is only being given a small percentage in the equation. Some of us are in one camp and some in the others. I think we're all starting to split hairs on these jobs. Either way, it's not effecting this -5 degree weather that I wish would go away.

 

[IrishLax]

Sorry - Not my intent to suggest that a current 1A coach would come to ND. My point is if all the 1A programs had an opening would the absolute best tier 1B or tier 2 coaches have any interest in coming to ND(thus making it a tier 1A job) over those other 1A opportunities?

IMO, yes there would be some.

Texas and Alabama I think are in a league of their own with how attractive they are configured to win and pay well. Of the other jobs -- Ohio State, Notre Dame, Michigan, USC, Oklahoma -- Notre Dame clearly has some aspects that are more appealing than those schools, and others that are worse. So it's all about what would tickle a coach's fancy.

For example, I could definitely see a coach choosing Notre Dame over Michigan. We currently pay better, have the NBC deal, aren't in dead/dying conference, have more talent and arguably a better ability to recruit talent moving forward, etc.

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Lions to interview Mike Munchak
<a href="http://t.co/phQsZd1s6J">http://t.co/phQsZd1s6J</a></p>— Football Rumor Mill (@fbrumormill) <a href="https://twitter.com/fbrumormill/statuses/420598404226351104">January 7, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[T Town Tommy]

Petrino apparently front runner for Louisville job.

After Petrino, eyes are on the Colorado Stat HC and Pat Narduzzi. Surprised no one is going after Mason from Stanford harder.

Word is the Louisville AD does not want Petrino. He usually wins out but he is probably feeling some pressure to hire him. They have poured a lot of money in their football program and to go backwards now may spell a little trouble for the AD.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

I heard that Vandy coaches are following PSU commits on Twitter.

 

[rtrn2glory]

per football scoop...

Penn St plans to offer head coaching job to james franklin

 

[IrishLax]

per football scoop...

Penn St plans to offer head coaching job to james franklin

Boom. IMO, this is the right hire, not Golden, regardless of the fact that he isn't a Penn State guy. He is going to kill it in recruiting Penn State and the mid-Atlantic in general.

 

[PANDFAN]

I heard that Vandy coaches are following PSU commits on Twitter.

i was checking to see who franklin was following...damn following a vandy cheerleader...hmmmmm

 

[gkIrish]

Well Vanderbilt is irrelevant again. I bet Franklin will leave PSU within 3 years.

 

[tussin]

If PSU gets Franklin that's a really good hire right? I always thought he was a much better get than Golden or Munchak.

 

[STLDomer]

Does Vandy have a coach waiting in the wings or an outside hire??

 

[PANDFAN]

Well Vanderbilt is irrelevant again. I bet Franklin will leave PSU within 3 years.

i foresee this as well, but i would imagine that psu is going to have a huuuge buyout to protect themselves so a b.o.b doesn't happen again.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

If PSU gets Franklin that's a really good hire right? I always thought he was a much better get than Golden or Munchak.

As a hater, Franklin was the one I didn't want then to get.