Sep 7 | Michigan

[Whiskeyjack]

i saw this and read it....and immediately looked at it as if it were ND how would i view this? facts? rumors? sources? agenda? and this story didn't add up

Should be much easier than that. This is remarkably similar to the Lizzie Seeberg incident, except the alleged victim here didn't commit suicide.

Reading the comments from Walmart Wolverines under that article made my stomach turn. I recall seeing similarly knee-jerk biased reactions from ND fans to the reports about Seeberg.

It's pretty clear that the systems both ND and UM utilize for handling alleged rape claims are terribly inadequate.

 

[Old Man Mike]

If Councell and Smith step right up and replace Danny Spond, Michigan's "second-game-trying-to-figure-it-out" offense will barely score. Our DLine plus a more open-playbook by Diaco should cave in and occasionally blitz-the-eyes-out of Michigan's work-in-progress OLine. Expect some picks by our deep D.

Michigan's DLine will stand its ground against the ND OLine. No sense sugar-coating that. However, Mattison will have to blitz Tommy. We will need the RB to effectively figure this out and block. If he does, our huge receivers and deeper threats will be open. Mattison too will be directing a Defense much more a work in progress than either of our units. [due mainly to Ryan's absence.]

If Ben & Jaylon intelligently defend, Elijah figures out his fits, somebody picks up the blitzes, this should be nothing more than a hard grinding but controlled win.

But it's Michigan, and there's no logic to that.

 

[TomHaverford]

I'm excited to see what Nix will do against the inexperienced interior line. Michigan is replacing both Guards and the Center with guys that have zero career starts and only 6 appearances combined. Yes they have some talent, but replacing the entire interior line with that level of inexperience will certainly come with some growing pains. I expect that Nix will do his best to ensure that he inflicts his share of growing pains during that game.

Michigan's interior OL will no doubt struggle early on I think. Especially against players like Nix and Tuitt, who are some of the best in the country at their positions. The set of tackles is as solid as any in the country though with a pair of fifth year seniors in Taylor Lewan and Michael Schofield.

I believe the talent level on the interior is upgrading, but these guys are all very green and will be bound to make rookie mistakes, especially early on. Kyle Kalis, Ben Braden, and Chris Bryant are battling for 2 guard spots. RS Freshman Kyle Kalis is 6'5, 304 pounds and is a throw back Michigan type linemen, he was also a 5* recruit. RS Sophomore Chris Bryant is even bigger coming in at 6'4, 325 pounds (he came into the program at like 350) and he is said to be the strongest run blocker on the team, but he is coming off injuries though and has never started a game. RS Freshman Ben Braden is 6'6, 322 pounds and while his future is definitely at tackle he might prove to be too good to keep off the field this year.

These guys are really inexperienced but they are bigger, more talented, and better fits than guys like Ricky Barnum and Patrick Omameh, who were 230-240 pounds coming out of high school and 280-290 pounds in college and were recruited to play in a different type of offensive system. Hoke and Borges want to run power and to do that they need interior linemen that can blow defenders off the ball and they need backs that can break tackles and run between the tackles.

Michigan's guards struggled much of last year, and I think the guards this year will struggle early on, especially against ND (which is why I think they probably lose to ND) but by the end of the season they could wind up being phenomenal. Kalis, Braden, and Bryant all have really good upside.

 

[ACamp1900]

I was being facetious

 

[laservet]

Didn't have any problems when I went in 2011. Pretty good experience with the fans there actually. Much better than East Lansing.

Fans in E Lansing can be aggressive; they sometimes riot after games.

I was in the big house for the 2011 night game, everyone seemed to be very friendly on both sides. A ND fan went into cardiac arrest about 15 seats away from me and a UM fan did cpr on him until the emt's arrived and used a defibrillator to jump start him.

 

[phork]

i saw this and read it....and immediately looked at it as if it were ND how would i view this? facts? rumors? sources? agenda? and this story didn't add up

Go read Mgoblog on how Kelly and other football players covered up the rape of Seeburg. Facts be damned its instant guilt. I am so going to fry those hypocritical bastards. The Big House is a Glass House and they have thrown too many stones for this to get swept aside.

 

[IrishLax]

Should be much easier than that. This is remarkably similar to the Lizzie Seeberg incident, except the alleged victim here didn't commit suicide.

Reading the comments from Walmart Wolverines under that article made my stomach turn. I recall seeing similarly knee-jerk biased reactions from ND fans to the reports about Seeberg.

It's pretty clear that the systems both ND and UM utilize for handling alleged rape claims are terribly inadequate.

Go read Mgoblog on how Kelly and other football players covered up the rape of Seeburg. Facts be damned its instant guilt. I am so going to fry those hypocritical bastards. The Big House is a Glass House and they have thrown too many stones for this to get swept aside.

Man, not to nitpick guys... but it really bothers me when I see people throw around "rape" with Seeberg. There was no rape, allegation of rape, or any sex whatsoever. I really don't think these cases could be more dissimilar.

On one hand you have an alleged unwanted touching, followed by a tragic death where the accuser OD'd on her medication, and an investigation that resulted in no charges because, among other things, the fact that according to the DA the accuser's story didn't add up. The headline is that there was a loss of life that maybe could've been avoided if St. Mary's/Notre Dame did more to support her, especially with her history of mental issues and documented suicidal tendencies.

On the other hand, there was actually intercourse, there is a classic he-said/she-said, there is no refuting evidence against her claims (at least none that has been presented), there is some minimal evidence supporting her claims, and there is no suicide. The headline is football player accused of rape. This is, sadly, rather run of the mill. There are rapes and alleged rapes every year by CFB players. Just see how little press the Vandy story has gotten, and that's about as heavy as a rape case gets.

The only thing that is the same is that they involve football programs in the Midwest and no charges were filed. There is very little similar between a mentally unstable young woman claiming her breast was touched and then killing herself (supposedly) because her breast was touched; and a girl claiming she was forcibly raped and threatened that she'd be forcibly raped again if she filed charges.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Man, not to nitpick guys... but it really bothers me when I see people throw around "rape" with Seeberg. There was no rape, allegation of rape, or any sex whatsoever. I really don't think these cases could be more dissimilar.

That's an important distinction that my post glossed over...

The only thing that is the same is that they involve football programs in the Midwest and no charges were filed.

... but I don't think that's accurate either.

• Football player at a traditional midwestern powerhouse is accused of sexual assault;
• Player's roommate threatens alleged victim;
• University conducts half-assed investigation, and tells alleged victim there's nothing it can do.

I didn't intend to draw a moral equivalency between Seeberg's allegations and the UM athlete's. But from what I've read, it seems like the systems in place for handling such situations are grossly inadequate. Does anyone disagree that ND handled the Seeberg investigation and the girl's family poorly?

 

[MNIrishman]

Whiskey, no Notre Dame player was accused of rape...

 

[phork]

Man, not to nitpick guys... but it really bothers me when I see people throw around "rape" with Seeberg. There was no rape, allegation of rape, or any sex whatsoever. I really don't think these cases could be more dissimilar.

I was posting on behalf of the dregs at Mgoblog, not myself.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Whiskey, no Notre Dame player was accused of rape...

Sexual assault, excuse me.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

This deserves its own thread.

 

[ulukinatme]

Whiskey, no Notre Dame player was accused of rape...

If you hear other fans refer to the case, they always call it a rape, not alleged sexual assault. I've batted that one around on Buckeye Planet more than once, among other places. I've tried to make that distinction in the past and present the facts, and I've actually been branded a defender of rapists. Forget the fact that I've had family go through the very same thing, no, clearly I don't see the evil. I decided it's pointless to even try and converse about the topic.


And I agree, this topic probably deserves it's own thread. Michigan is dirty enough, the game thread doesn't need to be sullied anymore than it already is.

 

[Ironman8]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Michigan announces starting WR Amara Darboh (foot surgery) out for season.</p>— Joe Schad (@schadjoe) <a href="https://twitter.com/schadjoe/statuses/370167829418737664">August 21, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[koonja]

He was going to be a starter?? Wow. Didn't know he climbed the depth chart that fast.

 

[dublinirish]

With ‘clear separation,’ Toussaint emerges as UM’s likely RB starter | CollegeFootballTalk

seems that Derrick Green ain't setting the world on fire. Toussaint is just a guy back there, nothing special at all

 

[PANDFAN]

remember this guy

remember this guy

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Michigan announces starting WR Amara Darboh (foot surgery) out for season.</p>— Joe Schad (@schadjoe) <a href="https://twitter.com/schadjoe/statuses/370167829418737664">August 21, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

holy sh#t...i have been slow lately....damn 4g network must be running on 3

 

[PANDFAN]

With ‘clear separation,’ Toussaint emerges as UM’s likely RB starter | CollegeFootballTalk

seems that Derrick Green ain't setting the world on fire. Toussaint is just a guy back there, nothing special at all

“Hoke mentioned, in order, Drake Johnson, Thomas Rawls and Justice Hayes as backs who have performed well, particularly in last Saturday’s scrimmage.” There was no mention of Green in that instance.

 

[woolybug25]

With ‘clear separation,’ Toussaint emerges as UM’s likely RB starter | CollegeFootballTalk

seems that Derrick Green ain't setting the world on fire. Toussaint is just a guy back there, nothing special at all

Toussaint is a good football player. As long as the stutures hold on his neck from his decapitation via Clowney, he should be a very good back this season.

 

[PANDFAN]

Toussaint is a good football player. As long as the stutures hold on his neck from his decapitation via Clowney, he should be a very good back this season.

that was vincent smith

 

[ulukinatme]

Toussaint is a good football player. As long as the stutures hold on his neck from his decapitation via Clowney, he should be a very good back this season.

You're thinking of Vincent Smith

[EDIT] Sunuva, Panda, you're too fast

 

[PANDFAN]

You're thinking of Vincent Smith

[EDIT] Sunuva, Panda, you're too fast

bout damn time that 4g kicked in

 

[woolybug25]

My bad. Don't know how I missed that.

 

[koonja]

With the inexperience of Michigan's interior OL, I'll be very disappointed if Diaco doesn't order up a bunch of stunts or twists or whatever you call it. Basically, where the DE comes inside and the DT goes out. I think we'll have success with that, especially with our front line.

 

[Black Irish]

My bad. Don't know how I missed that.

It's that hit you took from Clowney, remember?

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

The lack of skill position players for UM should be alarming for them. Whatever anyone says, Toussaint is very average. He had a more experienced OL last year and had a pretty underwhelming campaign. With Darboh out, that leaves Gallon (2nd or 3rd best on a top 15 team), Dileo (lol), Funchess (needs to break out), and Norfleet (untested). I know they have had a senior walk on perform well recently (Reynolds?), but no one stands out as a must-contain guy.

Edit: Fitz went for 514 yards last year on 130 attempts. This is with Denard running the ball less than in previous years. Can't imagine Gardner will be getting a lot of designed runs, seeing as how they have no legit backup.

 

[phork]

MGoblog is on lockdown with the Gibbons thing. I think its freaking hilarious that they keep saying its a witch hunt, no charges were laid, this is all fabricated etc etc. Yet in the next sentence chastise ND for the handling of the Seeburg case.

The Big Glass House resides in Ann Arbor, MI.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

MGoblog is on lockdown with the Gibbons thing. I think its freaking hilarious that they keep saying its a witch hunt, no charges were laid, this is all fabricated etc etc. Yet in the next sentence chastise ND for the handling of the Seeburg case.

The Big Glass House resides in Ann Arbor, MI.

Such little brother mentality.

 

[Chamellion]

The lack of skill position players for UM should be alarming for them. Whatever anyone says, Toussaint is very average. He had a more experienced OL last year and had a pretty underwhelming campaign. With Darboh out, that leaves Gallon (2nd or 3rd best on a top 15 team), Dileo (lol), Funchess (needs to break out), and Norfleet (untested). I know they have had a senior walk on perform well recently (Reynolds?), but no one stands out as a must-contain guy.

Edit: Fitz went for 514 yards last year on 130 attempts. This is with Denard running the ball less than in previous years. Can't imagine Gardner will be getting a lot of designed runs, seeing as how they have no legit backup.

Shane Morris was a quality recruit. May not be ready but I wouldn't be surprised if he was good if he stepped in

 

[Rack Em]

Shane Morris was a quality recruit. May not be ready but I wouldn't be surprised if he was good if he stepped in

He had a poor senior year and a poor camp circuit before his senior year IIRC. There haven't been any reports of him excelling in camp either. The only reason he didn't end up a low 4 or a 3 was that he was ranked so highly to start.

I would be VERY surprised if a true frosh with his lack of credentials looked good in meaningful minutes this season.