Russia Invades Ukraine

Old Man Mike

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You know, gentlemen, if everyone puts this asshole on ignore, IE will have banned him despite the mods not wanting to.

Plus, with ignores, you won't have to read any response --- since he never contributes anything actually worth reading, you risk missing nothing. A troll is emasculated without an audience.

... and since I'm not being nice, I'll ask The Lord to forgive my weakness in this ... sorry. ... but it's a relief.
 

PerthDomer

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I dont view Russia's actions in the same light as the Nazis?
Our war aims against Germany never really factored in the Holocaust.

And the money we're giving to the Ukranians is for more cost effective than most things wr spend on. It's less than 0.1% of the budget. What a strong ukraine/weak russia buys us in future national security exceeds that significantly.
 

Rogue219

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You know, gentlemen, if everyone puts this asshole on ignore, IE will have banned him despite the mods not wanting to.

Plus, with ignores, you won't have to read any response --- since he never contributes anything actually worth reading, you risk missing nothing. A troll is emasculated without an audience.

... and since I'm not being nice, I'll ask The Lord to forgive my weakness in this ... sorry. ... but it's a relief.
I enjoy the feature. Not going to lie.
 

Irish#1

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Never have used the feature. Can't say I won't, but I can't ever remember thinking about it.
 

Irish#1

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Somebody needs to tell India to quit buying Russia’s excess oil.
 

Irish#1

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Those rocket systems have a longer range that what was previously supplied. I believe it's around 50 miles, so they can engage Russia earlier and from a safer distance.
 

calvegas04

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Those rocket systems have a longer range that what was previously supplied. I believe it's around 50 miles, so they can engage Russia earlier and from a safer distance.
UK is also sending some US made rocket systems as well
 

Irish#1

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Read an article where Russia has started their car production back up minus some safety features due to not being able to acquire those components.

As a result, the company’s affordable four-door passenger car Lada Granta, will no longer feature air bags, anti-lock braking systems, electronic stability control or emergency retraction locks on seat belts. It also fails to fulfill the 21st century emission standards adopted by many of Russia’s neighbors.
 
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MacIrish75

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This could get really ugly soon.

Russia would get annihilated in about an eighth of the time it’s taken them to “conquer” a few areas of the Ukraine. It’s a power play…only they’ve shown the world they don’t have a whole lot of power to flex.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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Another Billion in aid going to Ukraine. The weapons they won't see for months, which I'd assume is the part they need most.

"How we gonna pay for that?"

- America, when it comes to anything that would benefit 99% of it's population.

Look, I get it, but for as much as I get it I also question the hell out of it.
 

Old Man Mike

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The analysts say that this current recessionary threat and the concomitant rise in inflation are primarily engineered by Putin's attack on Ukraine which crippled Oil availability status quo and grain availability status quo. Most of the commentary goes like "If we weren't seeing these gasoline price rises we wouldn't even be having these conversations. Almost all of the rest of the economic indicators are OK."

Anyone rooting for a continuance of that pair of deficits is not reading the global economy very well. These are exterior fundamentals ("exterior" to what organizations like the Fed can impact.) If we want to resolve these issues, we need to solve the problem of filling the gaps left in the energy and food chains caused by this war, or somehow at least temporarily replacing these losses. To me that means crippling Putin's ability of creating chaos in Ukraine, and talking world oil producers to at least temporarily ramp up production to lower cost per barrel (which has doubled over the past year) or, as much as we can, release some Strategic Petroleum Reserves barrels to reduce costs --- something that can be done relatively quickly though even that is hampered by the poor state of repair of the SPR facilities and distribution system. We are already committed to releasing SPR oil to pay for those facility and distribution repairs, plus another forecast release for other infrastructure repair. There is some release still scheduled to help pay for debt in budget accrued by the previous administration as well, so both parties use this as a honey pot (so hopefully we can cut the political bullsh!t distraction a bit and focus on actual physical and economic solutions.)

So, my opinion which is that only of an informed reader of government and historical documents (and not TV watching) is that we (The USA) should release SPR oil as reasonable, put some pressure on oil providers both domestic and foreign for both added supply and less price gouging <--- there is NO doubt, looking at the relevant time and pricing curves that there is some of that (These priceings have jumped to record highs (Except for the End of GWBush cycle which was wildly out of control even beyond the Carter years.) And by doing so bring the gasoline costs back. Then we need to constrict Russian activity away from the growing grain areas of Ukraine, and let a growing season happen. AND we could use a lot of help from GCC to allow US grain-producers to have stable enough weather to even get all the planting and watering in. We have had TERRIBLE acreage-able-to-be-planted years. People who don't see the GCC connection to the food inflation are always ostriches. Because GCC and Oil=Modern-Tech-Economy-Life are at such diametric loggerheads, we need to suck it up and admit that by denying this so long we've put ourselves in a painted corner where getting out is going NOT to be without mess.

Ukraine is an unwelcome added unnecessary accident in all of this, and whatever we can do to stop its influence (especially on food) should be a global priority. One thing which might help a little would be to admit that this thing is so big and complex that it is beyond any one country (let alone any one President of any political stripe) to sally forth and sweep it away. It would help more if we could stop calling names when someone tries something rather than use every imagined whatever to arouse negative opinion. AND, impossible as it is given the assholes on both aisle sides, it would be REALLY great to see some actual attempt to get together on some strategies --- even bite-the-bullet ones --- to stabilize all of this (inc the GCC.)

... my bottom line on Ukraine: as long as they are committed to literally fighting to the Death, we supply them with LOADS of very high-tech weaponry to at a minimum bottle-up Russia to as narrow an area in east Ukraine as possible. We have these weapons now to give/ship. We have other weapons to replace them in the production pipeline already. We have funding mechanisms which work rather smoothly for things of War, so keeping the Kill Larder stacked is not an issue.
 

ACamp1900

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Another Billion in aid going to Ukraine. The weapons they won't see for months, which I'd assume is the part they need most.

"How we gonna pay for that?"

- America, when it comes to anything that would benefit 99% of it's population.

Look, I get it, but for as much as I get it I also question the hell out of it.
You’re not the only one,…
 

Irish#1

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This could get really ugly soon.

Last week Fedorov introduced legislation targeting Lithuanian sovereignty and claimed it illegally left the Soviet Union more than three decades ago.

Left illegally 30 years ago and you're just now getting around to complaining about it?

Seems Putin's going deep into his bag of tricks to stop everyone from helping Ukraine.
 

calvegas04

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Was reading last night how the US has been slowly been changing strategy from artillery and tanks to air power and precision missiles. And now they are rethinking this strategy after seeing what is going on in Ukraine and the massive use of artillery power. The US won't have full air control in every conflict they are in.
 

pumpdog20

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Another Billion in aid going to Ukraine. The weapons they won't see for months, which I'd assume is the part they need most.

"How we gonna pay for that?"

- America, when it comes to anything that would benefit 99% of it's population.

Look, I get it, but for as much as I get it I also question the hell out of it.
I thought this was just the first billion getting sent that was part of the overall 40 billion that was voted on?
 

Valpodoc85

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The analysts say that this current recessionary threat and the concomitant rise in inflation are primarily engineered by Putin's attack on Ukraine which crippled Oil availability status quo and grain availability status quo. Most of the commentary goes like "If we weren't seeing these gasoline price rises we wouldn't even be having these conversations. Almost all of the rest of the economic indicators are OK."

Anyone rooting for a continuance of that pair of deficits is not reading the global economy very well. These are exterior fundamentals ("exterior" to what organizations like the Fed can impact.) If we want to resolve these issues, we need to solve the problem of filling the gaps left in the energy and food chains caused by this war, or somehow at least temporarily replacing these losses. To me that means crippling Putin's ability of creating chaos in Ukraine, and talking world oil producers to at least temporarily ramp up production to lower cost per barrel (which has doubled over the past year) or, as much as we can, release some Strategic Petroleum Reserves barrels to reduce costs --- something that can be done relatively quickly though even that is hampered by the poor state of repair of the SPR facilities and distribution system. We are already committed to releasing SPR oil to pay for those facility and distribution repairs, plus another forecast release for other infrastructure repair. There is some release still scheduled to help pay for debt in budget accrued by the previous administration as well, so both parties use this as a honey pot (so hopefully we can cut the political bullsh!t distraction a bit and focus on actual physical and economic solutions.)

So, my opinion which is that only of an informed reader of government and historical documents (and not TV watching) is that we (The USA) should release SPR oil as reasonable, put some pressure on oil providers both domestic and foreign for both added supply and less price gouging <--- there is NO doubt, looking at the relevant time and pricing curves that there is some of that (These priceings have jumped to record highs (Except for the End of GWBush cycle which was wildly out of control even beyond the Carter years.) And by doing so bring the gasoline costs back. Then we need to constrict Russian activity away from the growing grain areas of Ukraine, and let a growing season happen. AND we could use a lot of help from GCC to allow US grain-producers to have stable enough weather to even get all the planting and watering in. We have had TERRIBLE acreage-able-to-be-planted years. People who don't see the GCC connection to the food inflation are always ostriches. Because GCC and Oil=Modern-Tech-Economy-Life are at such diametric loggerheads, we need to suck it up and admit that by denying this so long we've put ourselves in a painted corner where getting out is going NOT to be without mess.

Ukraine is an unwelcome added unnecessary accident in all of this, and whatever we can do to stop its influence (especially on food) should be a global priority. One thing which might help a little would be to admit that this thing is so big and complex that it is beyond any one country (let alone any one President of any political stripe) to sally forth and sweep it away. It would help more if we could stop calling names when someone tries something rather than use every imagined whatever to arouse negative opinion. AND, impossible as it is given the assholes on both aisle sides, it would be REALLY great to see some actual attempt to get together on some strategies --- even bite-the-bullet ones --- to stabilize all of this (inc the GCC.)

... my bottom line on Ukraine: as long as they are committed to literally fighting to the Death, we supply them with LOADS of very high-tech weaponry to at a minimum bottle-up Russia to as narrow an area in east Ukraine as possible. We have these weapons now to give/ship. We have other weapons to replace them in the production pipeline already. We have funding mechanisms which work rather smoothly for things of War, so keeping the Kill Larder stacked is not an issue.
Nicely said. However, I think the real goal in the conflict is to remove or at very least severely cripple Putin. The West needs to stay together with this and see it to the end. China is watching intently. I see this conflict grinding on for another 4-6 months minimum
 

calvegas04

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Be that as it may, didn't hear many people asking how we'd pay for it.

Now if you're talking health care, internet access or anything else here at home....well, we've gotta take a real close look at THAT stuff.
We pay for it with our taxes. Seeing equipment going to Ukraine we can see, all the money spent at home is a lot harder to see where it is really going.
 

IrishFan9820

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Be that as it may, didn't hear many people asking how we'd pay for it.

Now if you're talking health care, internet access or anything else here at home....well, we've gotta take a real close look at THAT stuff.
$40B is less than 1% of what we spent in 2019 (pre-pandemic). Last year's infrastructure bill included $65B for broadband expansion. A major health care bill would likely cost trillions if not tens of trillions of dollars.

Sources:
The Federal Budget in 2019: An Infographic | Congressional Budget Office
 

IrishLax

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You pay taxes to fund defense for literally this reason. So that when crazy mother fuckers decide to do shit that threatens the United States (or their allies) then you can stop them.

Is the premise that “hey we shouldn’t give weapons to these people fighting an enemy of the United States and should instead sit on them and let this enemy get stronger”? Because that’s crazy and people need to get over the ludicrous notion that “Russia wins and starts reconstructing the Soviet Union” is actually an acceptable outcome.
 
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