Rumored Violations

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dublinirish

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>We all in the same boat man........ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯</p>— Toot Daddy Fresh™ (@DaVarisDaniels) <a href="https://twitter.com/DaVarisDaniels/status/519141727614287872">October 6, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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koonja

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>We all in the same boat man........ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯</p>— Toot Daddy Fresh™ (@DaVarisDaniels) <a href="https://twitter.com/DaVarisDaniels/status/519141727614287872">October 6, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Good to see the University still doesn't care about wasting time, as the decisions have been reached but players still not told it.
 

kmoose

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Good to see the University still doesn't care about wasting time, as the decisions have been reached but players still not told it.

The hearings are concluded. The decisions are expected to come down this week. Why is it so hard for people to stick to the facts about this issue?
 

Cali_domer

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The principal purpose of the Honor Code process (see Undergraduate Academic Code of Honor // University of Notre Dame) is to educate our students as to the importance of academic integrity. The process is time-consuming because it is thorough, as it must be to ensure integrity and fairness. Having said that, we recognize it can be difficult for students, regardless of culpability, who are subject to such reviews, especially when public scrutiny becomes so magnified for those who are student-athletes. We are working to resolve these situations as quickly as possible.”

Brian Kelly ponders next step as Notre Dame academic fraud case nears conclusion - Notre Dame Insider: Football
 
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BigIrish

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There's no point in ND making a Sunday announcement that basically says "we're not making any more announcements - go ask the players" unless news is forthcoming. It may take a day or two to come to light, but it's coming now. ND just told the media where to get the scoop on the investigation - you only do that when you're about to go public.
 
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koonja

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The hearings are concluded. The decisions are expected to come down this week. Why is it so hard for people to stick to the facts about this issue?

Is it fact that they have NOT made decisions yet? If so, that's news to me. Please source your facts.

And if they haven't, what more is there to think about? Everything's already known and heard.
 
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kmoose

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Is it fact that they have NOT made decisions yet? If so, that's news to me. Please source your facts.

And if they haven't, what more is there to think about? Everything's already known and heard.

I just called Fr. Jenkins. He said two things that really stuck out to me:

1. He said that the players would be the first non-committee people to find out the results of their hearings.

And.....

2. He told me to kindly ask "that koon guy" to stop calling him, stop parking outside of his house, stop trying to listen in on his phone calls, and mostly, stay the hell out of his bathroom when he is showering.

So there you have it........... right from the horse's mouth.
 

Emcee77

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The hearings are concluded. The decisions are expected to come down this week.

Right, that was my understanding too. The players had the chance to speak their piece at their hearings and then the committee was going to go over everything and make a decision. I don't think it has been confirmed that the decision has been made yet, although everyone seems to expect that the decision will come quickly. They've certainly had plenty of time to go over the evidence.
 
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koonja

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I just called Fr. Jenkins. He said two things that really stuck out to me:

1. He said that the players would be the first non-committee people to find out the results of their hearings.

And.....

2. He told me to kindly ask "that koon guy" to stop calling him, stop parking outside of his house, stop trying to listen in on his phone calls, and mostly, stay the hell out of his bathroom when he is showering.

So there you have it........... right from the horse's mouth.

So you didn't answer my question, and made a really long and lame joke. Reps.
 

dad4aa

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Is it fact that they have NOT made decisions yet? If so, that's news to me. Please source your facts.

And if they haven't, what more is there to think about? Everything's already known and heard.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>BK: Said he hopes to have things wrapped up in the next 24 hours. Based upon info he received, thinks decision will be made next week</p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/status/517804438128713728">October 2, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

You posted this (#8317) when BK said the decision should be made...NEXT WEEK and that was Thursday.
 
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koonja

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You posted this (#8317) when BK said the decision should be made...NEXT WEEK and that was Thursday.

That's old news and irrelevant since the University made the new statement yesterday.

The only relevant facts are in what the Univ said yesterday... But no one can understand them with certainty, lol.
 

kmoose

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So you didn't answer my question, and made a really long and lame joke. Reps.

Your obsession with this is bordering on pathetic. You want to know how I know that no decisions have been made yet? Because there is absolutely no way that Philip Daniels would not be either A.) Tweeting about the injustice done to his son, or B.) Tweeting about they were right all along, and his son was cleared.

The hearings were Thursday and Friday. I can't imagine why the committee members would take more than 15 or 20 minutes to consider the students' side of the story, and then render a decision that will either compromise everything that the University stands for(by allowing cheaters to remain students in good standing), or will completely turn lives upside down (assuming that the consequences for cheating, and lying about it, would be suspension or expulsion). I mean, the nerve of those fvkrs... How dare they not give up their weekend to deliberate the testimony? Don't they realize that some guy(s) on an internet message board wants ANSWERS???

If you knew that the hearings just wrapped up on Friday and you didn't think it would be this week before any answers were had, then I have to question how you manage to tie your shoes, each morning.
 
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dad4aa

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Sorry but I don't remember reading any statement from the university stating the decisions have been made. Please post.
 

dad4aa

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Didn't the statement say something about waiting until all interviews are concluded (something KVR alluded to in his tweet)? Weren't there non-athletes that still needed their meetings to take place?
 

kmoose

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I'm not 100% certain they school's even made decisions yet. That was just how I interpreted that purposely stuipidly written statement.

That presser was written by a PAB. Totally scared to come out with it.

Oh, the irony.........
 

IrishLax

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This is going to be the last post I make in this gem of a thread before tuning out and waiting for the official announcement.

There have been so many rumors throughout this whole thing and almost all of them that have been positive or "conspiracy theory"-esque have been wrong. Oh well. The beauty of the internet is you get lots of information, the bad news is that so much of it is unreliable. Here's my feelings after talking to people on campus Saturday.

I've been one of the biggest critics of the "process" from the very beginning. And I stand by all of that. And I know there is a huge chunk of very influential people (including BoT folks) that are extremely unhappy with every aspect of how this investigation has been executed. Is what it is... but IMO the numerous procedural and PR flaws are beyond obvious.

From talking with people who are current students and peers of those in question I'm pretty much convinced that these kids have all cheated to some degree. This isn't surprising when statistics show that 80%+ of college kids admit to cheating on written assignments. The question is what proof/evidence do they have that they cheated? It sounds like it's mostly circumstantial and hearsay, but there is such a large quantity of potential transgressions under review that I don't see how they dodge all the bullets. And I don't think this committee intends to show significant leniency, or demand a high burden of evidence like a court of law. But maybe they will.

The probe was huge and it involves a lot of non-football people. I think one of the biggest questions everyone needs to ask is why the investigators thought it appropriate to basically do an extensive audit of all papers they could get their hands on going back years when none of those papers triggered any investigation at the time they were submitted. It'd be one thing if they had a process in place to regularly audit papers, etc. in a timely (yearly?) fashion... but they don't, and the only reason there is ANY NCAA exposure is that they... the administrators... couldn't/didn't catch offenses as they happened.

Towards vacating wins... it was definitely recommended in the early stages, and I don't think what the investigation turned up is going to do anything to dissuade that recommendation. I don't really get why the University didn't do more to fight to cover their ass like basically every other school would do. The people who ran this investigation put a premium on finding every skeleton in every closet that they could. IMO, that makes no sense. The focus of the investigation should've been first and foremost limiting exposure/PR fallout and second being punitive. I really doubt you're going to see any true "sanctions" but having seasons wiped off the books because the administration couldn't effectively police their classrooms to catch transgressions as they happened, but then doubled down with an investigation that would make the FBI proud to uncover every little thing they missed, is just a complete and utter failure by everyone on the academic side of this.

So in short... process was FUBAR and everyone knows that. But they did it, and it really seems like they found enough for this to end poorly for everyone, and the biggest shame is that our record books are going to take a hit as if we paid players, etc. when really it's just them being bad at catching people in a timely fashion doing things that the majority of college students do.

There's still quite a bit of hearings to be concluded and you might hear something this week if they start issuing results in a piecewise fashion (kind of doubtful) but most likely I imagine you're going to see an announcement on the "self sanctioning" or conclusion or whatever in a matter of weeks, not "tomorrow" or anything like that. ND may also sit on the actual sanctioning/report to NCAA for awhile until all those ducks are firmly in a row... but that timing is anyone's guess.
 
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MNIrishman

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So you didn't answer my question, and made a really long and lame joke. Reps.

We're given that the hearings are done. We don't know anything about the results. You are angrily speculating that they have them and are sitting on them for no reason. You are challenging him to post a source contradicting your baseless speculation. Huh.
 
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dad4aa

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Literally didn't read your post past the first sentence since it's obviously garbage. You seem a bit obsessed with me, though. And I'm flattered.

That would make sense. Hopefully we know by EOD then.

Like I said, it doesn't really say anything. At least not clearly. But my guess based on what they said is that they've made their decisions and are now in the process of notifying the players.


That's not fact at all, so sorry if I made it seem that way. IDK that you can say for fact one way or another based on that wording.

No worries. 99% of what gets posted is opinion and thought. Normally if it is fact a source is sighted so I was just following up to see if I missed something. Thanks for clarifying.
 

wizards8507

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Like I said, it doesn't really say anything. At least not clearly. But my guess based on what they said is that they've made their decisions and are now in the process of notifying the players.
Aren't you the one who posted the statement in the first place?

Hearings for those withheld from football were completed on Friday. Decisions will be communicated individually to affected student-athletes and other students alike, as deliberations on each case conclude.
"...as deliberations on each case conclude," i.e. deliberations on each case have not yet concluded (at the time of the statement).
 
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koonja

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No worries. 99% of what gets posted is opinion and thought. Normally if it is fact a source is sighted so I was just following up to see if I missed something. Thanks for clarifying.

Yeah, my post on this page made it sound like I knew for fact so that was poor wording. Not that you had to or should, but if you look back, I've been adimant that yesterday's release doesn't make anything clear, one way or another... I should have put IMO in the above post.
 

FLDomer

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This is going to be the last post I make in this gem of a thread before tuning out and waiting for the official announcement.

There have been so many rumors throughout this whole thing and almost all of them that have been positive or "conspiracy theory"-esque have been wrong. Oh well. The beauty of the internet is you get lots of information, the bad news is that so much of it is unreliable. Here's my feelings after talking to people on campus Saturday.

I've been one of the biggest critics of the "process" from the very beginning. And I stand by all of that. And I know there is a huge chunk of very influential people (including BoT folks) that are extremely unhappy with every aspect of how this investigation has been executed. Is what it is... but IMO the numerous procedural and PR flaws are beyond obvious.

From talking with people who are current students and peers of those in question I'm pretty much convinced that these kids have all cheated to some degree. This isn't surprising when statistics show that 80%+ of college kids admit to cheating on written assignments. The question is what proof/evidence do they have that they cheated? It sounds like it's mostly circumstantial and hearsay, but there is such a large quantity of potential transgressions under review that I don't see how they dodge all the bullets. And I don't think this committee intends to show significant leniency, or demand a high burden of evidence like a court of law. But maybe they will.

The probe was huge and it involves a lot of non-football people. I think one of the biggest questions everyone needs to ask is why the investigators thought it appropriate to basically do an extensive audit of all papers they could get their hands on going back years when none of those papers triggered any investigation at the time they were submitted. It'd be one thing if they had a process in place to regularly audit papers, etc. in a timely (yearly?) fashion... but they don't, and the only reason there is ANY NCAA exposure is that they... the administrators... couldn't/didn't catch offenses as they happened.

Towards vacating wins... it was definitely recommended in the early stages, and I don't think what the investigation turned up is going to do anything to dissuade that recommendation. I don't really get why the University didn't do more to fight to cover their ass like basically every other school would do. The people who ran this investigation put a premium on finding every skeleton in every closet that they could. IMO, that makes no sense. The focus of the investigation should've been first and foremost limiting exposure/PR fallout and second being punitive. I really doubt you're going to see any true "sanctions" but having seasons wiped off the books because the administration couldn't effectively police their classrooms to catch transgressions as they happened, but then doubled down with an investigation that would make the FBI proud to uncover every little thing they missed, is just a complete and utter failure by everyone on the academic side of this.

So in short... process was FUBAR and everyone knows that. But they did it, and it really seems like they found enough for this to end poorly for everyone, and the biggest shame is that our record books are going to take a hit as if we paid players, etc. when really it's just them being bad at catching people in a timely fashion doing things that the majority of college students do.

There's still quite a bit of hearings to be concluded and you might hear something this week if they start issuing results in a piecewise fashion (kind of doubtful) but most likely I imagine you're going to see an announcement on the "self sanctioning" or conclusion or whatever in the next 2-3 weeks. Almost certainly not before UNC and maybe not before FSU.

Thanks for the insight Lax, hopefully your post does not get buried by the pissing match the once again Koon is in the middle of. I just wish you had heard more positive news about the situation.
 

Irish#1

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That's old news and irrelevant since the University made the new statement yesterday.

The only relevant facts are in what the Univ said yesterday... But no one can understand them with certainty, lol.

0Op4naP.gif
 

Chi_IRISH

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What time is practice today? If the "results" are in the mail, is it possible that CBK already knows them? Will the 5 if cleared be at practice today?
 

ryno 24

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There is no practice Monday. They have film session later in the day.
 

Huntr

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Aren't you the one who posted the statement in the first place?


"...as deliberations on each case conclude," i.e. deliberations on each case have not yet concluded (at the time of the statement).

I posted it and I specifically bolded that part to head off this circle jerk of a conversation that I knew would occur.
 

ulukinatme

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Well, I'm a little down in the dumps after reading LAX's post. Guess it's best to expect the worst and hope for some good things.
 

CarrollVermin

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Yeah, agree with a lot of what Lax has said. This became a witch hunt...it is easier to deal with in the media than just saying, "nothing to see here." Baffling.
 
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