Redskins

[Irishnuke]

That's exactly the response I expected.

 

[GATTACA!]

That's exactly the response I expected.

Scientific fact vs subjective feelings being hurt over a word.


Not sure where you think your going with this.

Edit: Oh shit Nuke negged me! I think that's my first one ever. I am so sorry i offended you nuke. I think you should start a new thread to keep a list of every word that offends you, so ill know when to toe the line. Even though my response was clearly meant to be humorous i don't want to risk hurting anyones feeling in the future.

Ill pitch in here are the first couple:

redskin
fucking
idiot
fucking-idiot

 

[Irishnuke]

Scientific fact vs subjective feelings being hurt over a word.


Not sure where you think your going with this.

Edit: Oh shit Nuke negged me! I think that's my first one ever. I am so sorry i offended you nuke. I think you should start a new thread to keep a list of every word that offends you, so ill know when to toe the line. Even though my response was clearly meant to be humorous i don't want to risk hurting anyones feeling in the future.

Ill pitch in here are the first couple:

redskin
fucking
idiot
fucking-idiot

Lol. You called me a fucking idiot and your vag hurts because I neg repped you for it. Makes sense.

 

[GATTACA!]

Lol. You called me a fucking idiot and your vag hurts because I neg repped you for it. Makes sense.

My vag is fine im making fun of you, but clearly you can't spot my jokes lol. To be clear i said you where either joking or a fucking idiot.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Only a doctor will be able to determine whose vag took a bigger pounding.

I have no opinion on this situation until a medical professional weighs in.

 

[connor_in]

It's getting pretty offensive in here!

 

[Huntr]

Only a doctor will be able to determine whose vag took a bigger pounding.

I have no opinion on this situation until a medical professional weighs in.

 

[wizards8507]

Fun fact: "Redskin" has nothing to do with skin color and is, in fact, a reference to war paint that was literally the color red. Only honorable warriors had the PRIVILEGE to be known as "Redskins."

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

 

[RDU Irish]

Doing nothing when people are offended is absolutely riduculous. That's why this whole Redskins thing is dumb.

Perfect! I'm offended by most of your posts, therefore you should be banned forever.

I would put that in italics but since you are dead serious, I guess I am too.

 

[Great Lakes Irish]

I have never in my life heard Redskin used as a slur towards someone. No Native Americans I've talked to have ever said they've heard it used as a slur. Have you heard it used as a slur? Has ANYONE here actually heard it used as a slur in real life? Disparaging basically means belittling... can anyone here honestly say that they've ever heard "redskin" used to belittle someone?

I have. Against me, in school growing up. Injun too. Sometimes in “jest” and sometimes (more rarely) with actual hateful intent.

I don't really post on here. I get my ND football news here and also enjoy that there are many different types of people who post with different opinions, and I find it entertaining. I also don't want to get in a long argument with people who say I should feel differently about this. The amount of ignorance shown in this thread is downright depressing, and debating with that overwhelming lack of insight is far too often a waste of time. But I am posting this perspective for those who have a modicum of intelligence but are actually unsure about the situation and need to hear from a Native American who sees the derogatory term as an insult. So I will put it plainly… It is an insult to me, it is an insult to my ancestors, and it is an insult to my kids.

There is always the anecdote from someone that knows an Indian who isn't bothered by the name. There are some who aren't I guess. But now you are reading the words of a real Native American who is VERY offended by this OBVIOUSLY racist term. One reason being that regardless of original intent (or origin at all) the term is used as, and has been used as, one of vile disrespect and hate towards a race of people. Also, I'll reiterate that I've personally been called a redskin in a derogatory manner before. Sorry, I do not have a link to prove this though.

Let me try and put it into context here. Being Native American is beautiful. So many aspects of my ethnicity/race/culture are overwhelmingly positive and joyous. But the capital T Truth is that the Native American experience is one of overwhelming loss and pain. And I'm not talking about a vague historical difficulty faced many generations ago that still indirectly informs us as a people today. I'm talking about recent historical trauma that of which is more akin to the Jewish Holocaust experience than any other in American history. Rape, mass-murder, infanticide, and biological terrorism, to name a few crimes against humanity perpetrated by the U.S. Government against Native American populations have left our communities absolutely decimated. To have a team named after a racial slur against us is deeply insulting given the disrespect we have endured, and continue to endure. We are busy fighting for Rights and Justice in myriad ways. We are busy trying to feed, educate, and heal our communities that have been devastated by violent invasion and systematic oppression since First Contact. This is about being called redskins to our faces on the biggest stage in America, ON TOP of the continuing injustice, racism, and oppression we face on the local level. This is also about someone being called nigger. This is also about civil rights, equal opportunity, and justice. This is NOT about rationalizing hate because your indian Lax bros said they're cool with it.

One of the most beautiful aspects of our culture is what I would call an almost reverent respect for two groups of people.. elders and the youth. Our job in the middle is to take care of the elderly, and raise our children with the values and dedication that those elders gave to us. Again, this team name insults my Ancestors. And now I’m going to have to explain it to my kids when they get a little older. That is not okay.

And by the way...no one here is even remotely aware of the intricately close ties between our much loved University and Native Americans???

You would think there would be more respect, just in general as a human-to-human thing, but especially considering...

Pokagon Band part of ND history, land // The Observer

 

[IrishLax]

I have. Against me, in school growing up. Injun too. Sometimes in “jest” and sometimes (more rarely) with actual hateful intent.

I don't really post on here. I get my ND football news here and also enjoy that there are many different types of people who post with different opinions, and I find it entertaining. I also don't want to get in a long argument with people who say I should feel differently about this. The amount of ignorance shown in this thread is downright depressing, and debating with that overwhelming lack of insight is far too often a waste of time. But I am posting this perspective for those who have a modicum of intelligence but are actually unsure about the situation and need to hear from a Native American who sees the derogatory term as an insult. So I will put it plainly… It is an insult to me, it is an insult to my ancestors, and it is an insult to my kids.

Thank you for posting. Two follow ups:
1. Did you grow up on or do you currently live on a reservation?
2. What % Native are you and from what tribe.

 

[Huntr]

Thank you very much for that perspective.

 

[gkIrish]

I have. Against me, in school growing up. Injun too. Sometimes in “jest” and sometimes (more rarely) with actual hateful intent.

I don't really post on here. I get my ND football news here and also enjoy that there are many different types of people who post with different opinions, and I find it entertaining. I also don't want to get in a long argument with people who say I should feel differently about this. The amount of ignorance shown in this thread is downright depressing, and debating with that overwhelming lack of insight is far too often a waste of time. But I am posting this perspective for those who have a modicum of intelligence but are actually unsure about the situation and need to hear from a Native American who sees the derogatory term as an insult. So I will put it plainly… It is an insult to me, it is an insult to my ancestors, and it is an insult to my kids.

Thank you for your perspective. One question for you:

Why do you think other Native Americans have a completely opposite reaction to the word as you do? Some view it as a term of respect. Why is that?

 

[IrishLax]

Going to pull in some previous posts made by Great Lakes Irish on this subject, because he has a unique perspective here:

I must admit that's haven't read through this whole discussion. It seems to maybe have veered off from the original topic somewhat, but I wanted to get some thoughts posted... specifically because I am a Native American and thus have a perspective on this that most others here likely do not.

First off, the article references the beliefs/viewpoint of the author's Father-in-law. This man raised the woman who eventually decided to spend the rest of her life with Rick Reilly. Put simply, this could imply that she may have been raised by a dumb f<€k. Maybe not. He is entitled to his own opinion, but I disagree.

Anyway, I know we're talking about the Redskins, but the above image reflects my feelings on this issue for most teams with names, mascots, and fans that make a caricature of my ethnicity. There are degrees to this, and Cleveland Indians' mascot is more bafoonish (insulting) than the Redskins, but to me it is splitting hairs. The ignorance for the true history of Native Americans is shameful. Unspeakable stuff I guess, so maybe that explains it...

Indian Country Today Media Network.com

We were treated like animals. I would hope that if people were more informed, they would be more respectful. (?) To be a mascot next to other mascots that are animals sucks. It's dehumanizing and it sucks.

It's a good point, and I understand where you are coming from. Admittedly, the issue is relatively complicated. But to me, if the original purpose was to respect Indians (which it was not in my opinion), it's almost always negated in that it reinforces negative (racist) stereotypes and encourages caricaturizations by fans, which again, disrespects a whole ethnicity of people. It would be wholly different if that ethnicity had not been disrespected, attacked, killed, relocated, etc by the Federal Government and settlers from the beginning. The Cleveland Indians mascot is blindingly racist though. I don't think there could be any disagreement about that.

And, as was mentioned in some previous posts, if there are any more Native Americans on this board who would be willing to share their perspective it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Great Lakes Irish]

Thank you for posting. Two follow ups:
1. Did you grow up on or do you currently live on a reservation?
2. What % Native are you and from what tribe.

Forgive me if I don't trust the motivation behind request to know my specific blood quantum. Not full-blood (few left), but Indian enough for you. Did not grow up on a reservation. Proud citizen of the Pokagon Band of Potawatomi.

Thank you for your perspective. One question for you:

Why do you think other Native Americans have a completely opposite reaction to the word as you do? Some view it as a term of respect. Why is that?

I don't know. I haven't met any, but then again I don't know a whole lot of Indians outside of my Tribe and family, but I would be happy to discuss it with them if I did.

 

[IrishLax]

Forgive me if I don't trust the motivation behind request to know my specific blood quantum. Not full-blood (few left), but Indian enough for you. Did not grow up on a reservation. Proud citizen of the Pokagon Band of Potawatomi.

Well, with all due respect, that's a really douchey response. And many of my "lax bros" are full-blood and did grow up on reservations in Six Nations.

Are these people "Indian enough for you"? Or are they just "lax bros?": Mag Archives: Thompson Family's "Symbol of Pride" | Inside Lacrosse

My "motivation" was that Jebediah Springfield noted that in Northern California he knew people with different viewpoints than what I was describing. I was trying to determine if maybe there was a regional/tribal component to it, since as I said my experience is almost exclusively with people from Six Nations. Another component towards it being regional is that the Native American high schools who embrace the term Redskin seem to be in the Southwest (Red Mesa High School in Arizona, 100% Navajo on a reservation... etc. etc.). So yeah...

 

[IrishLax]

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Around the 6 minute mark (the whole thing is worth watching) they talk about racism and such they've experienced. Like I said earlier, there's big issues. In the conversations I've had with various people they've pointed to a lot of things they have problems with... the most commonly infuriating being the Cleveland Indians caricature. They also talk about different slurs and stuff... but Redskin was not one of them.

You clearly have strong feelings and a different personal anecdote to some others shared here. But trying to trivialize these people as "lax bros" or ignoring the other Native Americans who feel differently than you as if they don't exist isn't the right way to approach things if you're trying to change minds.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Well, with all due respect, that's a really douchey response. And many of my "lax bros" are full-blood and did grow up on reservations in Six Nations.

Are these people "Indian enough for you"? Or are they just "lax bros?": Mag Archives: Thompson Family's "Symbol of Pride" | Inside Lacrosse

My "motivation" was that Jebediah Springfield noted that in Northern California he knew people with different viewpoints than what I was describing. I was trying to determine if maybe there was a regional/tribal component to it, since as I said my experience is almost exclusively with people from Six Nations. Another component towards it being regional is that the Native American high schools who embrace the term Redskin seem to be in the Southwest (Red Mesa High School in Arizona, 100% Navajo on a reservation... etc. etc.). So yeah...

Irish, French and 6 Nations. But I did not grow up on a reservation. I know what is right, and what is wrong.

Also, there is a huge difference between the experience of many Native American. There are a lot of people with 6N blood, just like Irish. Many have been immersed in European civilization, and do not stand out.

Then there is the Trail of Tears, the extermination of the Cherokee, the Lakota, particularly the Ogallala, who stood up to the invaders, and then the Indians of the Southwest, that were blatantly starved (to death) within my lifetime. Catholic Charities and other religious organizations mobilized food, medicine and assistance to keep children in America from starving to death in my life time. So there are many stories.

The best example is the Lakota. Which is what they want to be known as. Some still call them "Sioux" which was a derogatory word for "split tongued snake" in a neighboring peoples. People still refuse to call them their name, Lakota, which is not a simple tribe, but a nation, instead they insist on using the insult Sioux. Ignorance or intentional? Who knows, but it is a distinction made greatly to them, but one that may be lost outside of the northern plain states.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Well, with all due respect, that's a really douchey response. And many of my "lax bros" are full-blood and did grow up on reservations in Six Nations.

Are these people "Indian enough for you"? Or are they just "lax bros?": Mag Archives: Thompson Family's "Symbol of Pride" | Inside Lacrosse

My "motivation" was that Jebediah Springfield noted that in Northern California he knew people with different viewpoints than what I was describing. I was trying to determine if maybe there was a regional/tribal component to it, since as I said my experience is almost exclusively with people from Six Nations. Another component towards it being regional is that the Native American high schools who embrace the term Redskin seem to be in the Southwest (Red Mesa High School in Arizona, 100% Navajo on a reservation... etc. etc.). So yeah...

I didn't really grow up around Native people so I'm new to this, but there are a bunch of problems around who is in and who is out. An extreme example, I just seen in the newspaper some white guys arrested and they were reportedly in a white supremacist prison gang... dude had an "Indian Pride" tattoo.

And I swear I thought I read that the Thompson kids, or one of them, didn't like the Redskins name.

 

[IrishLax]

I didn't really grow up around Native people so I'm new to this, but there are a bunch of problems around who is in and who is out. An extreme example, I just seen in the newspaper some white guys arrested and they were reportedly in a white supremacist prison gang... dude had an "Indian Pride" tattoo.

And I swear I thought I read that the Thompson kids, or one of them, didn't like the Redskins name.

Yeah you're not wrong, and to be very clear I was not referring to discussions with the Thompsons, I just brought them in because belittling people like that as "lax bros" I thought was pretty weak. I have never talked with any Thompson of any kind, and in no way, shape, or form am I trying to put words in their mouth. I played many years ahead of the trio and never, ever have crossed paths with them.

Miles used to be OK with it and a Redskins fan until others with a similar view as Bogs and Great Lakes Irish convinced him it was wrong:

Miles, for one, used to sleep in a bed adorned in a Washington Redskins blanket, but removed it after his older brother Jerome “enlightened me on what the real meaning of a ‘redskin’ is

Which is what this should all be about. Jerome obviously made a good case that changed his mind. And read Great Lakes Irish's posts honestly opens my eyes to different angles. There's been a lot of really good disparate viewpoint presented in this thread and I hope it continues to be productive and civil.

 

[kmoose]

Doing nothing when people are offended is absolutely riduculous. That's why this whole Redskins thing is dumb.

I'm offended by you posting here. What do you think the mods ought to do about that?

 

[GoIrish41]

I'm offended by you posting here. What do you think the mods ought to do about that?

Ban you. Lol

 

[Great Lakes Irish]

Yeah you're not wrong, and to be very clear I was not referring to discussions with the Thompsons, I just brought them in because belittling people like that as "lax bros" I thought was pretty weak. I have never talked with any Thompson of any kind, and in no way, shape, or form am I trying to put words in their mouth. I played many years ahead of the trio and never, ever have crossed paths with them.

Miles used to be OK with it and a Redskins fan until others with a similar view as Bogs and Great Lakes Irish convinced him it was wrong:

Which is what this should all be about. Jerome obviously made a good case that changed his mind. And read Great Lakes Irish's posts honestly opens my eyes to different angles. There's been a lot of really good disparate viewpoint presented in this thread and I hope it continues to be productive and civil.

Yeah you know what, you're right. I should not have included that part about lax bros. It was distracting and not helpful. I'm frustrated that there are some intelligent people left who aren't letting this go.

I can't speak for the Indians you've talked with that support the name, but I strongly disagree with them! I represent myself, my family, and some other Indians in my community that I've talked to about this. There are over 500 Native Nations, and each is unique. Of all those people, there will be different experiences and different viewpoints. I am not ignoring the ones who are okay with it, I am saying that I don't think they should be okay with it and would be happy to talk with them face to face about it. Probably some in the video you posted, but I'm on mobile and it won't come up, but I will watch it later.

 

[ACamp1900]

Curious Lakes, are you okay with the logo, is it just the name?... Say the Skins change the name to Warriors but keep the logo... Thoughts?

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Yeah you're not wrong, and to be very clear I was not referring to discussions with the Thompsons, I just brought them in because belittling people like that as "lax bros" I thought was pretty weak. I have never talked with any Thompson of any kind, and in no way, shape, or form am I trying to put words in their mouth. I played many years ahead of the trio and never, ever have crossed paths with them.

Miles used to be OK with it and a Redskins fan until others with a similar view as Bogs and Great Lakes Irish convinced him it was wrong:

Which is what this should all be about. Jerome obviously made a good case that changed his mind. And read Great Lakes Irish's posts honestly opens my eyes to different angles. There's been a lot of really good disparate viewpoint presented in this thread and I hope it continues to be productive and civil.

I'm guessing this is going to be an issue within and between tribes going forward, as today I've heard/read some more.

Idk how widespread this is but I see a battle going on over who gets to speak for Natives

 

[GATTACA!]

Curious Lakes, are you okay with the logo, is it just the name?... Say the Skins change the name to Warriors but keep the logo... Thoughts?

I saw someone suggest changing it to the Washington Americans, and keeping the logo. Seemed pretty cool to me.

 

[ResLife Hero]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Now Washington's football team is offering to fund a Native American skate park. <a href="http://t.co/HLcTDkOoT2">http://t.co/HLcTDkOoT2</a> <a href="http://t.co/muEDUmdYpy">pic.twitter.com/muEDUmdYpy</a></p>— SB Nation (@SBNation) <a href="https://twitter.com/SBNation/statuses/490196238067724289">July 18, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[gkIrish]

Politician urges Cleveland Indians to change name, mascot - ESPN New York

Cincinnati senator seeking support from Reds fans?

 

[Ndaccountant]

Politician urges Cleveland Indians to change name, mascot - ESPN New York

Cincinnati senator seeking support from Reds fans?

Reason #1,443,559 why Cincinnati should be annexed to Kentucky.

 

[ACamp1900]

I saw someone suggest changing it to the Washington Americans, and keeping the logo. Seemed pretty cool to me.

My mom is a 'skins fan, which makes me a bit of one too... I love the Warriors idea personally... wouldn't be against yours either though.