Post spring thoughts

Redbar

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If I remember right, we weren't playing "musical QB's .

Tommy got banged up, that's why Dayne had to step in.

Tommy got banged up. Dayne came in made a critical first down on a 3rd and 8 I believe. Couple nice runs by Cierre. Another nice through by Dayne to Cierre. 1st and ten in the redzone. THEN bring Andrew Hendrix in for a play, then back to Dayne= fumbled snap. That was the musical quarterback I was referring to.
 

alohagoirish

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Thats not entirely true--In the USC game tommy got banged up & Hendrix went in, Andrew drove the team down close and then Coach felt the need to lift him for Dayne for the final series and we all know what happened.

When you use TWO QBs in just a few plays to replace a slightly banged up 3rd QB --that seems to qualify as Musical QBs and it was a mistake. Hendrix should have gone in for the TD and we would have been spared that 14 point sway from the fumble.
 

NDinFL

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Tommy got banged up. Dayne came in made a critical first down on a 3rd and 8 I believe. Couple nice runs by Cierre. Another nice through by Dayne to Cierre. 1st and ten in the redzone. THEN bring Andrew Hendrix in for a play, then back to Dayne= fumbled snap. That was the musical quarterback I was referring to.

Gotcha,

I forgot about Hendrix going in
 
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Bogtrotter07

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If Kelly was playing stress manager with Golson, why did he have the referee turn the play clock OFF? That's the only reason the delay calls stopped. Kelly had the play clock turned off.

I mentioned in the B&G thead that Kelly gets too involved with "teaching moments" from the previous play be it with a QB, RB, WR, etc. For two years Crist, Rees, and Hendrix all have had to wait too long for the next play to be sent in. Kelly counsels someone, THEN, takes to his OC via headset, peruses his omnipresent laminated play chart, picks a play, tells the Red Army what to signal it in, The Red Army wags, The QB digests, Finally, calls the play, the center barks out line calls, a safety moves up a two steps, the QB recomputes and calls an audible, while the entire offense reajust their individual assignments on the NEW play, a whistle blows, and it's either "DELAY OF GAME!" or "FALSE START!"

The QB isn't the only one under time pressure with this system.

3rd and 1 is now 3rd and 6, 1st and 10 is now 1st and 15, doesn't really matter the down nor the distance. It's now more yards with less time on the clock. In the past two years there have been a number of ND "two minute drives" where the plays got in quickly and the TEAM played with high tempo. It doesn't take a time management study to realize there are too many steps in that process. It starts slow and stays slow. BUT sometimes hums along when the lead person, the head coach, exhibits tempo.

I didn't follow UC but what little I did see of them on TV, they had crisp tempo under Kelly. How do you get crisp tempo in any offense, regardless of QB, if you can't get the play in quickly?

In the B&G game Golson had difficulty with reading the signals, he had difficulty getting players in the correct alignment (part player and position coach problem there, as well). Golson has work to do there BUT Kelly still has to get the plays in quicker, not some of the time, all the time.

When Kelly came to ND the buzz was ND was going to run 80 plays a game, every game. Last year ND did it twice, PU and UMD. 80 plays a game would be 1040. In 2011 ND ran 906 or 69 plays/game. That's only 19 plays more in the season than opponents ran and it's comparable to the Weis years. Increased Tempo has been as effective as Weis's Schematic Advantage.

Here's the game by game breakdown, mileage may vary by turnovers (rarely plus moreso minus) and runs versus pass, opponents strength, blah, blah, blah

HTML:
Team	Plays
USF	78
UM	72
MSU	58
PIT	73
PU	81
AF	65
USC	57
USN	60
WF	62
UMD	84
BC	78
SU	68
FSU	70
Total	906

Good points, but just to address two. I think Golson got flustered. The bad snap was Hegardy; but I think that and some of the situations flustered Golson. I think the coaches were calling plays in the spring game to test preceved weaknesses in each quarterback's game. I don't want to overblow it, but I think the pressure was on. And I think the coaches were using the spring game to get tape on the qbs in nearly game like situations.

About the plays per game. Last season had its shortfalls, with that I think Kelly talked in a press conference about controlling the tempo of the game. To me one of the biggest advantages is that we could slow down the game and run posession against Air Force, Navy, and MSU. Wake Forest was an early lead that we needed to hang on. Remember the defensive injuries we had last year before Cave and Jonas went down? That's all. Mine are soft points. Nothing hard and fast.
 

Redbar

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Thats not entirely true--In the USC game tommy got banged up & Hendrix went in, Andrew drove the team down close and then Coach felt the need to lift him for Dayne for the final series and we all know what happened.

When you use TWO QBs in just a few plays to replace a slightly banged up 3rd QB --that seems to qualify as Musical QBs and it was a mistake. Hendrix should have gone in for the TD and we would have been spared that 14 point sway from the fumble.

Don't want to harp on details but I was in fact correct. Andrew came in for Tommy in the second drive of the second quarter just as a package deal. The drive in question, where Tommy got banged up came in the third quarter and CBK did go to Dayne first and Dayne led them to the redzone after completing a 4th and 6 to Tyler E, before he was pulled for a play where Andrew ran it to the two then Dayne went back in and the fumble occurred.

ESPN still has the play by play
 
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Patulski

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Don't want to harp on details but I was in fact correct. Andrew came in for Tommy in the second drive of the second quarter just as a package deal. The drive in question, where Tommy got banged up came in the third quarter and CBK did go to Dayne first and Dayne led them to the redzone after completing a 4th and 6 to Tyler E, before he was pulled for a play where Andrew ran it to the two then Dayne went back in and the fumble occurred.

ESPN still has the play by play

I wonder if Kelly's belief that QB's can be run in and off the field in seamless transitions was shaken by this experience?
 

NDPhilly

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Posted this here as to not give anyone heart attacks by posting in the Davonte Neal thread. Davonte is up to 179 lbs. Will arrive at ND June 9th. His dad referenced Davonte being at Notre Dame for the next "three or four years" of his football career when he was talking to Pete on II.

IMO he will leave as soon as possible for the draft. Seems like a kid with a NFL goal above all.
 

ryno 24

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Davonte is a talented kid and if he wants to go to the NFL all the better but Notre Dame changes people for the better if they are able to stay.
 

NDPhilly

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If I had to guess which one of the remaining 2012 class would be most likely to transfer I'd definetly choose him. Don't take this the wrong way. He isn't looking around or unhappy right now. He just doesn't seem like a ND student athlete to me kinda like Lynch when he signed.
 

TerryTate

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He hasn't stepped foot on campus yet in response to your first and second statements
 

STLDomer

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Posted this here as to not give anyone heart attacks by posting in the Davonte Neal thread. Davonte is up to 179 lbs. Will arrive at ND June 9th. His dad referenced Davonte being at Notre Dame for the next "three or four years" of his football career when he was talking to Pete on II.

IMO he will leave as soon as possible for the draft. Seems like a kid with a NFL goal above all.

I have no problem with a kid that has first round talent leaving ASAP as long as he doesn't leave a huge whole behind him.

I would be upset if he left knowing he would not be drafted in the first round
 

DillonHall

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I have no problem with a kid that has first round talent leaving ASAP as long as he doesn't leave a huge whole behind him.

I would be upset if he left knowing he would not be drafted in the first round

Why would you be upset? It's his life
 

STLDomer

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Why would you be upset? It's his life

so u would have no opinion or be happy if a ND player left after his sophomore or junior year to be drafted in the third round?

upset is different from dissapointed or mad
 

DillonHall

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so u would have no opinion or be happy if a ND player left after his sophomore or junior year to be drafted in the third round?

upset is different from dissapointed or mad

None at all. A minimum salary of over 400,000 is pretty good, don't you think? A lot of these kids need to provide for their families, and I understand that. He can always go back to school to finish the last two semesters even if he left after his junior year (similar to Clausen).
 

FLDomer

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None at all. A minimum salary of over 400,000 is pretty good, don't you think? A lot of these kids need to provide for their families, and I understand that. He can always go back to school to finish the last two semesters even if he left after his junior year (similar to Clausen).

FWIW one of my very good friends played football at Penn State and was picked up by the Carolina Panthers as a free agent and received league minimum. He said once you pay all you expenses (agent, personal trainers, housing, vehicle...) you really dont walk away with a whole lot and in his case where he was injured and cut after 2 yrs, and he spent more money to try to rehab and make another team (flights, agent fees) he walked away with a modest house, H2 and a lil coin in the bank .... LUCKILY for him, he did graduate so he did have a degree to fall back on. So in the short of it, 390K is not a ton of cash to bank on, and if you leave early you better be darn sure A) you are going to be drafted high or B) you stay healthy for a long time. IMO
 

NDdomer2

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None at all. A minimum salary of over 400,000 is pretty good, don't you think? A lot of these kids need to provide for their families, and I understand that. He can always go back to school to finish the last two semesters even if he left after his junior year (similar to Clausen).

A mimimum salary over of 400,000 is awesome. But according to the article below, 80% of NFL players go bankrupt after they retire. Probably should get a degree if you aren't going 1st or 2nd round. Even then, better safe than sorry.

NFL players gone broke - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
 

Old Man Mike

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Two things occur to me: 1). Young Mr. Neal isn't at Notre Dame yet. There is no telling whether when he gets here, the light dawns, and he does a Manti/Tyler to stay to graduate and squeeze all he can out of the special environment. His Dad did say three OR four years afterall. They are intelligent people.

2). Kelly will always have a deep roster from now on out. "Next man in" is real.

It continues to gripe at me that if we had any even minor luck at all with solidity at the QB position, we'd have been sitting already with a couple of double-digit win seasons and the "attitude" about everything associated with Notre Dame football would be more positive by a factor of ten. As it is, every little imperfection, or worse, imagined imperfection, drives large numbers of people "round the twist". Gentlemen, we are a solidly functional QB away from being one of the scariest opponents in the country. Davonte Neal, and all the other young supermen with him, see this. If they can hack it as far as the great opportunities presented to them across the University experience [Lynch, Shepard, and Greenberry, sadly couldn't], they will emerge at the peaks of their potential as "men" and, less importantly, also athletes. I am delighted that young Mr. Neal is coming regardless and hope that at a minimum he gets his degree, even if he'd have to return for it, like Jimmy Clausen.
 

DillonHall

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A mimimum salary over of 400,000 is awesome. But according to the article below, 80% of NFL players go bankrupt after they retire. Probably should get a degree if you aren't going 1st or 2nd round. Even then, better safe than sorry.

NFL players gone broke - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Like I already said, why can't you finish your degree during the offseason like Clausen? The NFL is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity IMO.

Also, why should a fan get upset over a player's decision to leave even if it's detrimental to the player? It's his life and he needs to make his own decisions and live with them.
 
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DillonHall

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Two things occur to me: 1). Young Mr. Neal isn't at Notre Dame yet. There is no telling whether when he gets here, the light dawns, and he does a Manti/Tyler to stay to graduate and squeeze all he can out of the special environment. His Dad did say three OR four years afterall. They are intelligent people.

2). Kelly will always have a deep roster from now on out. "Next man in" is real.

It continues to gripe at me that if we had any even minor luck at all with solidity at the QB position, we'd have been sitting already with a couple of double-digit win seasons and the "attitude" about everything associated with Notre Dame football would be more positive by a factor of ten. As it is, every little imperfection, or worse, imagined imperfection, drives large numbers of people "round the twist". Gentlemen, we are a solidly functional QB away from being one of the scariest opponents in the country. Davonte Neal, and all the other young supermen with him, see this. If they can hack it as far as the great opportunities presented to them across the University experience [Lynch, Shepard, and Greenberry, sadly couldn't], they will emerge at the peaks of their potential as "men" and, less importantly, also athletes. I am delighted that young Mr. Neal is coming regardless and hope that at a minimum he gets his degree, even if he'd have to return for it, like Jimmy Clausen.

I agree fully about the "attitude;" all championship teams in the past have had imperfections, and I think we're closer than it appears after two 8-5 seasons.
 

NDhoosier

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If I had to guess which one of the remaining 2012 class would be most likely to transfer I'd definetly choose him. Don't take this the wrong way. He isn't looking around or unhappy right now. He just doesn't seem like a ND student athlete to me kinda like Lynch when he signed.

lol, get off the ledge bro... and before you respond with "I am not on the ledge" ... yes, yes you are.

and I still dont see the point of not putting info about the recruit in his thread just because it scares some people. If people are scared to open the thread, they have some serious problems, just saying... :alcohol:
 

NDdomer2

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Like I already said, why can't you finish your degree during the offseason like Clausen? The NFL is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity IMO.

Also, why should a fan get upset over a player's decision to leave even if it's detrimental to the player? It's his life and he needs to make his own decisions and live with them.

You can finish your degree in the off-season but very few players do that. The other part of this is if you are broke after your career is over how are you going to pay to go back to school. If you are leaving school to become a 3rd round pick or later are you going to drop/move up if you stay one or two more years to graduate?

Don't get me wrong the money starring you in the face is hard to ignore but very few players going after the 2nd round have long, wealthy careers free of major injury.

As for Clausen, we all would like to think he would have came back and got his degree regardless but what if he came into the league and started balling like Cam Newton did. Would Jimmy made the same decisions? You could enter any player's name in there but we were using him as a point of reference.
 

stlnd01

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Don't get me wrong the money starring you in the face is hard to ignore but very few players going after the 2nd round have long, wealthy careers free of major injury.

Yep.
For a lot of these kids, it's life-changing money. Maybe just as importantly the realization of something they've been dreaming about probably for a decade. But it doesn't take a genius to see that most of these guys are going to be out of the league before they're 30 (many sooner than that), and while a few hundred thousand dollars a year is great, it can go fast and you're not going to live the rest of your life on it.

It's easy to say "go back." But how many really do? The smart ones, yeah. But guys like Jimmy Clausen aren't the norm. Between the cost and the time and absence of a support system and the totally different lifestyle of a pro football player, I'd be shocked if more than 1 in 4 early draft-entrants ever finish their degree. Did Darius Walker? Golden Tate? (looks like he went back to school last spring at Tennessee, at least) All the legions of kids from schools that don't graduate 90+% of players to start with?

Obviously it's their life, and their decision. It just sucks to watch them make the wrong one.
 

Ignats

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I can confirm these rumors are true from multiple witnesses. Dear God.
 
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I can confirm these rumors are true from multiple witnesses. Dear God.

Yeah I heard it from a friend so I went searching for anyone else talking about it. That's one way to keep the terrible QB from playing! Have him kick a cop for no reason!
 
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