Post Game Observations (Navy '16)

[stlnd01]

It shows him going #1 to the Browns...

The he'd really better stay in school.

 

[IrishLax]

I was surprised that they could review this, but looked at my NCAA rulebook at the next break and the video replay official does have the right to review for too many men on the field.

This is interesting, what do do you make of this? I honestly don't know the particulars of the rule well enough, seems to be some serious contradiction:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here’s a screen shot of the illegal substitution reviewed call against Devin Studstill and the rule. AAC replay official made the call. <a href="https://t.co/n3ZNk5LkQU">pic.twitter.com/n3ZNk5LkQU</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/795425293725011968">November 7, 2016</a></blockquote>
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[Sherm Sticky]

This is interesting, what do do you make of this? I honestly don't know the particulars of the rule well enough, seems to be some serious contradiction:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here’s a screen shot of the illegal substitution reviewed call against Devin Studstill and the rule. AAC replay official made the call. <a href="https://t.co/n3ZNk5LkQU">pic.twitter.com/n3ZNk5LkQU</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/795425293725011968">November 7, 2016</a></blockquote>
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Ouch that hurts.

 

[Senoj13]

This is interesting, what do do you make of this? I honestly don't know the particulars of the rule well enough, seems to be some serious contradiction:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here’s a screen shot of the illegal substitution reviewed call against Devin Studstill and the rule. AAC replay official made the call. <a href="https://t.co/n3ZNk5LkQU">pic.twitter.com/n3ZNk5LkQU</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/795425293725011968">November 7, 2016</a></blockquote>
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I have tried to get this question answered several times with no luck. Does anyone know if conference officials get bonuses or payouts based on how many teams from their conference play in bowl games? Most if not all conferences share the bowl purses across the entire conference. Does the include employees of the league office? And if so, does it include referees? We saw this twice now this season where replay didn't get it right(Texas and Navy). Notre Dame keeps all its bowl money so it would stand to reason that league officials would rather see their teams qualify for bowl money before Notre Dame. Can anyone answer this?

 

[dad4aa]

Dantonio took his team to the CFP last year, and won four-straight bowl games before that, including a Rose Bowl and a NY6 bowl.

I would argue that Dantonio has earned a rebuilding year with the past success that he's delivered; BK hasn't delivered anything except a natty birth in '12 in which we were stomped.

That only emphasizes the point I am making. MSU is 2-7 AFTER going to the CFP and being ranked #12 preseason. 4 of their losses have been by 24, 17, 14 and 11...much worse than ND. They did not lose as many to the draft and are not playing as many freshman as us and did not fire a coordinator mid season. Both coaches deserve a rebuilding year. What they do with it next year will dictate their future.

If ND had gone 2-7 in 2013, after going to th NC, we would have seen the exact same reaction we are seeing now.

 

[gkIrish]

That only emphasizes the point I am making. MSU is 2-7 AFTER going to the CFP and being ranked #12 preseason. 4 of their losses have been by 24, 17, 14 and 11...much worse than ND. They did not lose as many to the draft and are not playing as many freshman as us and did not fire a coordinator mid season. Both coaches deserve a rebuilding year. What they do with it next year will dictate their future.

If ND had gone 2-7 in 2013, after going to th NC, we would have seen the exact same reaction we are seeing now.

If BK was going 10-2 every year and this happened I don't think many people would call for his head.

Problem is we are typically an 8-4/7-5 team.

 

[IrishLion]

That only emphasizes the point I am making. MSU is 2-7 AFTER going to the CFP and being ranked #12 preseason. 4 of their losses have been by 24, 17, 14 and 11...much worse than ND. They did not lose as many to the draft and are not playing as many freshman as us and did not fire a coordinator mid season. Both coaches deserve a rebuilding year. What they do with it next year will dictate their future.

If ND had gone 2-7 in 2013, after going to th NC, we would have seen the exact same reaction we are seeing now.

My point was not about last year, but about the fact that he won four straight bowl games, including two HUGE bowl games. Dantonio has delivered enough success to warrant some slack. I'm not sure if BK has turned in a good enough product to warrant the same slack.

 

[Cackalacky]

This is interesting, what do do you make of this? I honestly don't know the particulars of the rule well enough, seems to be some serious contradiction:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here’s a screen shot of the illegal substitution reviewed call against Devin Studstill and the rule. AAC replay official made the call. <a href="https://t.co/n3ZNk5LkQU">pic.twitter.com/n3ZNk5LkQU</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/795425293725011968">November 7, 2016</a></blockquote>
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I posted this earlier so not sure if anyone missed it but Mike Vorel got into it on twitter about this rule.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So, the Notre Dame penalty that prolonged Navy's go-ahead TD drive was essentially a referee's mistake: <a href="https://t.co/ntJaonBpyw">https://t.co/ntJaonBpyw</a> <a href="https://t.co/AFLLmyzoJ3">pic.twitter.com/AFLLmyzoJ3</a></p>— Mike Vorel (@mikevorel) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikevorel/status/795047841710407680">November 5, 2016</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/mikevorel">@mikevorel</a> Yeah you can. Page FR-110 of the NCAA rules. Article 8.</p>— Mike Althouse (@USNA86) <a href="https://twitter.com/USNA86/status/795051075502010368">November 5, 2016</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/USNA86">@USNA86</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/marlon_rhodeman">@marlon_rhodeman</a> Here is an excerpt from this year's NCAA case book. Nearly identical situation. <a href="https://t.co/iT8vJbpMei">pic.twitter.com/iT8vJbpMei</a></p>— Mike Vorel (@mikevorel) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikevorel/status/795061284295340032">November 6, 2016</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/mikevorel">@mikevorel</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/marlon_rhodeman">@marlon_rhodeman</a> well here's an excerpt from the actual rule. Plus, Rule 12, Article 8d. <a href="https://t.co/6ycuPzzZ7w">pic.twitter.com/6ycuPzzZ7w</a></p>— Mike Althouse (@USNA86) <a href="https://twitter.com/USNA86/status/795063259208491009">November 6, 2016</a></blockquote>
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[ACamp1900]

There are a lot of current trends with this program... most of them bad... and 'getting the raw end of some rare or grey rule/call" has become one of them

 

[TheSunIsRising]

This is interesting, what do do you make of this? I honestly don't know the particulars of the rule well enough, seems to be some serious contradiction:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here’s a screen shot of the illegal substitution reviewed call against Devin Studstill and the rule. AAC replay official made the call. <a href="https://t.co/n3ZNk5LkQU">pic.twitter.com/n3ZNk5LkQU</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/795425293725011968">November 7, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

SMH at the NCAA, which has a Rulebook with Interpretations that conflicts with a Casebook for Instant Replay. TBH, I have never even looked at the Casebook, but having just gone through quickly, it is ridiculous how inconsistent the documents appear on:
-What defines too many men on the field (Rulebook/Interpretations: need to have reached the boundary line; Casebook: if next step puts them on the sideline, it is not too many men)
-What is reviewable: (Rulebook/Interpretations: Too many men is reviewable; Casebook: not reviewable if next step puts them on the sideline....is there a review to assess whether the next step actually put the player on the sideline?)


NCAA Rules written by Captain James T Kirk while on the planet Sigma Iotia II (Fizzbin seems easy compared to NCAA)

 

[phgreek]

It shows him going #1 to the Browns...

That was weird...for some reason when I opened the article, I couldn't see the browns...

maybe my computer is trained...cause I don't see 'em either....hehehehe

 

[Sherm Sticky]

There are a lot of current trends with this program... most of them bad... and 'getting the raw end of some rare or grey rule/call" has become one of them

Seriously.

I feel there has been 3 major blunders that have gone against ND this year.

1. The no call on targeting Tori Hunter vs Texas.
2. The whistle blown for no reason when the Stanford RB moment had not been stopped, causing Notre Dame to lose 7 points from fumble recovery for a TD.
3. BS replay call to see if there were to many men on the field, when it wasn't called in real time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

We suck this year. Just a bunch of 'good' players with no studs. No Jaylon, no Tuitt, no Manti, No Martin, no Tate, no Rudolph.....

 

[NDRock]

Seriously.

I feel there has been 3 major blunders that have gone against ND this year.

1. The no call on targeting Tori Hunter vs Texas.
2. The whistle blown for no reason when the Stanford RB moment had not been stopped, causing Notre Dame to lose 7 points from fumble recovery for a TD.
3. BS replay call to see if there were to many men on the field, when it wasn't called in real time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My three major blunders would be:

1. Bringing BVG back after two awful years.

2. Deciding to stay with a pass first offense even with very little WR production coming back and three good RBs returning.

3. Keeping Scott Booker on staff and in charge of Special Teams even though every thing he touches turns to shit. He has the reverse Midas touch.

That about covers offense, defense, and Special teams, which have been our major issues this season.

 

[kmoose]

From the stands, I noticed a couple of new things about this team, that weren't obvious to me on TV:

1. DeShone Kizer is a really big guy. Like Ben Roethlisberger big. He also seemed to be completely lost on his throws for most of the game. He could barely get the 7 yard out passes to wide open receivers.

2. This Defensive Line is perplexing. They didn't just get beat by Navy's O Line; Navy's O Line was pushing them all over the field. It was an absolutely pathetic day for them, and I am laying the loss entirely on them. I don't know if the TV broadcast showed any of it, but they were getting MANHANDLED! by guys that were easily 80-100 lbs lighter than them.

3. Neither line fired off the ball with anything even approaching enthusiasm. It was crazy! Both lines looked like they were practically sleepwalking through the game.

4. P-8 flyover when the Blue Angels were in town? And then they couldn't even time it to be close to the end of the National Anthem? No wonder we are losing the Global War on Terrorism!

 

[BeatSC]

But... Kizer's a first round pick!

Oh right, I forgot about that.

 

[stlnd01]

We suck this year. Just a bunch of 'good' players with no studs. No Jaylon, no Tuitt, no Manti, No Martin, no Tate, no Rudolph.....

This is true. Especially on defense. And studs matter. One we reason our D couldn't get off the field against Navy is because we have no one - except maybe Jarron Jones or Cole Luke - capable of blowing up a play on his own. You need that sometimes.

 

[RDU Irish]

We are as talented across the board as we need to be to consistently win 10 per year. In the last 20 years, the talent of the last five years easily trumps that of the previous 15. Lack of talent is a weak sauce excuse - I buy it for inability to beat the OSU, Bamas of the world but not for being basically competitive.

Navy beat our ass. Plain and simple. I wasn't even pissed after the game. Horrible to lose like that and barely care. They were going to move the chains all day with 4 downs. The deeper you put them back, the longer they were going to grind you down.

Seriously, why not onside kick every chance after the first quarter when it was apparent to the world we were not stopping them on offense. Not like it is the first time BK has been torched by them - be nice to see him learn from past mistakes.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

My three major blunders would be:

1. Bringing BVG back after two awful years.

2. Deciding to stay with a pass first offense even with very little WR production coming back and three good RBs returning.

3. Keeping Scott Booker on staff and in charge of Special Teams even though every thing he touches turns to shit. He has the reverse Midas touch.

That about covers offense, defense, and Special teams, which have been our major issues this season.

WELL SAID

 

[pkt77242]

My three major blunders would be:

1. Bringing BVG back after two awful years.

2. Deciding to stay with a pass first offense even with very little WR production coming back and three good RBs returning.

3. Keeping Scott Booker on staff and in charge of Special Teams even though every thing he touches turns to shit. He has the reverse Midas touch.

That about covers offense, defense, and Special teams, which have been our major issues this season.

Doesn't really matter how talented the RBs are when the OL can't get any kind of push (unless you count them being pushed backwards).

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

Doesn't really matter how talented the RBs are when the OL can't get any kind of push (unless you count them being pushed backwards).

I disagree with this. Our OL is and has been playing better than everyone is saying. Just my opinion.

 

[NDRock]

Doesn't really matter how talented the RBs are when the OL can't get any kind of push (unless you count them being pushed backwards).

Do you think we would be a better running team if we focused on it from the Spring? If the coaches instilled a mentality of toughness? We don't get a "push" because we are a soft offense and don't impose our will on anybody. You can't just show up on Saturday's and turn it on. This should have been the plan from the get go. Here is ND's ranking for rushing attempts per game during the Kelly era:

2010 - 109th
2011 - 92nd
2012 - 51st
2013 - 109th
2014 - 84th
2015 - 84th
2016 - 95th

We don't run the ball in the games and according to people that attend practice, we don't practice running the ball there either. That's why we suck at it. Hell, apparently there is not time to practice Special teams, we see how that turns out.

 

[PANDFAN]

Do you think we would be a better running team if we focused on it from the Spring? If the coaches instilled a mentality of toughness? We don't get a "push" because we are a soft offense and don't impose our will on anybody. You can't just show up on Saturday's and turn it on. This should have been the plan from the get go. Here is ND's ranking for rushing attempts per game during the Kelly era:

2010 - 109th
2011 - 92nd
2012 - 51st
2013 - 109th
2014 - 84th
2015 - 84th
2016 - 95th

We don't run the ball in the games and according to people that attend practice, we don't practice running the ball there either. That's why we suck at it. Hell, apparently there is not time to practice Special teams, we see how that turns out.

that's incorrect

 

[NDRock]

that's incorrect

Of course we practice running the ball. Meant we definitely don't stress it as much as the passing game. Which makes sense though if we're going to be a pass first offense.

 

[IrishBroker]

This is true. Especially on defense. And studs matter. One we reason our D couldn't get off the field against Navy is because we have no one - except maybe Jarron Jones or Cole Luke - capable of blowing up a play on his own. You need that sometimes.

Cole Luke isn't any good and has been getting smoked all year long by athletically inferior players ....and Jones only plays hard about half the time.

I hope to God these aren't what you consider "studs"

 

[stlnd01]

Cole Luke isn't any good and has been getting smoked all year long by athletically inferior players ....and Jones only plays hard about half the time.

I hope to God these aren't what you consider "studs"

I'm saying they're about the only two guys on our defense who ever flash the sort of playmaking ability that can stop a drive or create a turnover on their own. If they did so more often they could be studs. Alas...

 

[Luckylucci]

I'm saying they're about the only two guys on our defense who ever flash the sort of playmaking ability that can stop a drive or create a turnover on their own. If they did so more often they could be studs. Alas...

Naw, I'd definitely put Morgan in that category. He's been he most consistent player on D the whole season and he's had plenty of "stops". We've seen "flashes" from Martini, Tranquill (very good game against Miami), and JO (had some nice individual plays against Navy). Vaughn (multiple PBU's in one on one coverage downfield, plus an INT) and Love has made some big plays as well.

I have a hard time taking posters seriously when they post things of this nature or the original post on this topic that you made. Because its just not true. There are facts, which are plays that they've made, that one could look to as obvious. It might not be happening as consistently as you'd like, but that's different than saying it doesn't happen at all.

Either you haven't watched the games or you are being overly dramatic because, well....... That's what the ND fanbase does these days. If the team is losing everything must suck.

 

[IrishBroker]

Naw, I'd definitely put Morgan in that category. He's been he most consistent player on D the whole season and he's had plenty of "stops". We've seen "flashes" from Martini, Tranquill (very good game against Miami), and JO (had some nice individual plays against Navy). Vaughn (multiple PBU's in one on one coverage downfield, plus an INT) and Love has made some big plays as well.

I have a hard time taking posters seriously when they post things of this nature or the original post on this topic that you made. Because its just not true. There are facts, which are plays that they've made, that one could look to as obvious. It might not be happening as consistently as you'd like, but that's different than saying it doesn't happen at all.

Either you haven't watched the games or you are being overly dramatic because, well....... That's what the ND fanbase does these days. If the team is losing everything must suck.

If you have been watching the games and think that Cole Luke has been playing well or is having a "good" season, it's you that is drinking the koolaid.

He's horrendous with a splash of "well, every blind squirrel finds a nut" this year. Watch the Duke film, my friend.

 

[Rocket89]

2. This Defensive Line is perplexing. They didn't just get beat by Navy's O Line; Navy's O Line was pushing them all over the field. It was an absolutely pathetic day for them, and I am laying the loss entirely on them. I don't know if the TV broadcast showed any of it, but they were getting MANHANDLED! by guys that were easily 80-100 lbs lighter than them.

200 pound offensive linemen would be a bold move by Navy.

LT: 281
LG: 297
C: 327
RG: 294
RT: 300

Navy's line isn't even that under-sized anymore.

 

[IrishLion]

200 pound offensive linemen would be a bold move by Navy.

LT: 281
LG: 297
C: 327
RG: 294
RT: 300

Navy's line isn't even that under-sized anymore.

I've read in a few places the past few years that Navy is allowed some "football" exceptions for their physical requirements, particularly in terms of the weight restrictions for their linemen.

I wonder if those guys playing upwards of 275 are expected to lose that weight in a certain amount of time once football is over for them or something.