Police State USA

Circa

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I'll leave this lil bit here
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vFNKKuwfR10" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Circa

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Some of the statues are symbols of oppression for a large group of people.

How old are you?
What nationality are you?
You can answer, or not,... but, It seems that there are a few more that stir the pot... these days.
 
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Irish YJ

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I'll leave this lil bit here
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vFNKKuwfR10" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

He needs his own radio show lol.
If he were white, he'd get canceled for being racist.
 

Legacy

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Northdakota & Bishop
See those monuments are where I disagree with some people on the Left. Keep em up, you celebrate their accomplishments despite some of the things they did. If their general body of work and the reason there is a monument from them is because they progressed something forward then I don't see why it needs to come down.

YJ I'll address your diatribe here.
1. No matter how much you want to call me a troll or some other shit, it won't stick. I've been able to get along with Praet in the Trump thread just fine recently (repped each other). I have a ton of respect for a lot of the right leaning posters here that take the time to listen to stuff from my Left ass.
2. I'm a pretty big pacifist and would not want to find myself in CHAZ or at the statue stuff.
3. I have a funny feeling you're the type of person to tweet at news org bitching and crying about unfair coverage...

Grow up man, I've been able to chat with other users and move past any prior differences. Quit following me around into other threads it's weird, pathetic, and you spend a lot of time on someone you think is a troll.

Toronto,
You know how much I am in agreement with you. Trumptilian behavior just defines the worst of posters and not those of Trump supporters who are willing to exchange their viewpoints.

A few points:
1. Onate's historical significance is questionable not only for his brutality but also for flaunting Spanish directives for which he was convicted by their courts. The creation and placement of statues to him were controversial to begin with as many argued they would be a flashpoint and certainly not representative of Hispanic heritage.

2. Stephen Baca, who shot the protester, has been charged with aggravated battery with a deadly weapon. He assaulted a woman, too, throwing her to the ground. Baca had a concealed weapon under his shirt. The militia group said he is not associated with them.

3. The four members of the militia group there, Civil Guard, were disarmed and taken to the police station for questioning and released without charges. PD found twenty weapons and thirty magazines on the four of them.

4. The New Mexico Civil Guard militia is not the main militia group - New Mexico Patriots - which has been appearing at the peaceful protest marches of hundreds in Albuquerque. But the Civil Guard has also made appearances there. The NM Patriots say their group is coordinating with six Albuquerque PD (APD) and have been videoed talking with several officers. The Civil Guard says they did not have meetings with the police like the "Patriots" did.

5. APD, in a statement, says that coordination is not sanctioned and that it "opposes vigilante actions" and "discourage the presence of armed civilians at protests which has the potential to escalate". At a recent march, APD Radio Dispatch mentioned "heavily armed friendlies " pointing guns down from the rooftop overlooking the march.

5. The Albuquerque public station, KUNM, notes that "armed militia groups seem to move around unimpeded" on the nightly protests route.

Armed Civilian Groups Patrol ABQ Protests, Raising Questions Of Coordination With Police (KUNM)
By HANNAH COLTON • JUN 8, 2020

What could go wrong with heavily armed paramilitary groups on rooftops and along protest routes with at least the tacit approval of the PD?
 
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TorontoGold

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How old are you?
What nationality are you?
You can answer, or not,... but, It seems that there are a few more that stir the pot... these days.

25, Canadian, CPA, my dad had an IE account back in like 2006-2009 and would always update me on the latest recruit stuff. Lurked on my own time from 2010 onward. Sincerely looking forward to being active in the non-political stuff this fall.
 

Circa

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25, Canadian, CPA, my dad had an IE account back in like 2006-2009 and would always update me on the latest recruit stuff. Lurked on my own time from 2010 onward. Sincerely looking forward to being active in the non-political stuff this fall.

That's great buddy. I love seeing other fans get real. Especially the generation that can make a difference.
 

Irish YJ

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Toronto,
You know how much I am in agreement with you. Trumptilian behavior just defines the worst of posters and not those of Trump supporters who are willing to exchange their viewpoints.

shocked
Is Trumptilian the opposite of Leftilian hypocrisy?

A few points:
1. Onate's historical significance is questionable not only for his brutality but also for flaunting Spanish directives for which he was convicted by their courts. The creation and placement of statues to him were controversial to begin with as many argued they would be a flashpoint and certainly not representative of Hispanic heritage.

His crimes against humanity were against Native Americans. This wasn't a bunch of indigenous folks protesting a statue on museum property, it was a riot of SJWs not caring what the cause is looking for something to vandalize in the name of whatever cause.

2. Stephen Baca, who shot the protester, has been charged with aggravated battery with a deadly weapon. He assaulted a woman, too, throwing her to the ground. Baca had a concealed weapon under his shirt. The militia group said he is not associated with them.

So the guy was not part of the militia, wasn't armed to the teeth. Just a legal handgun and not wearing camo? Do we have video of him assaulting anyone, or are these allegations (honest question)? I can't find any. We do have videos of him getting attacked.

3. The four members of the militia group there, Civil Guard, were disarmed and taken to the police station for questioning and released without charges. PD found twenty weapons and thirty magazines on the four of them.

Did they arrest the people that attacked Baca, or those vandalizing museum property?

4. The New Mexico Civil Guard militia is not the main militia group - New Mexico Patriots - which has been appearing at the peaceful protest marches of hundreds in Albuquerque. But the Civil Guard has also made appearances there. The NM Patriots say their group is coordinating with six Albuquerque PD (APD) and have been videoed talking with several officers. The Civil Guard says they did not have meetings with the police like the "Patriots" did.

So not charged... And it's OK as long as the coordinate with PD?

5. APD, in a statement, says that coordination is not sanctioned and that it "opposes vigilante actions" and "discourage the presence of armed civilians at protests which has the potential to escalate". At a recent march, APD Radio Dispatch mentioned "heavily armed friendlies " pointing guns down from the rooftop overlooking the march.

Still waiting on you to pearl clutch about armed lefties in Seattle.

5. The Albuquerque public station, KUNM, notes that "armed militia groups seem to move around unimpeded" on the nightly protests route.

Why should they be impeded if they are peaceful. The guy that shot the attacker wasn't even a part of the militia per your above.

Armed Civilian Groups Patrol ABQ Protests, Raising Questions Of Coordination With Police (KUNM)
By HANNAH COLTON • JUN 8, 2020

What could go wrong with heavily armed paramilitary groups on rooftops and along protest routes with at least the tacit approval of the PD?

Nothing should go wrong if everyone is peaceful and not violating the law.

Sounds like you're OK with the violation of law by left protesters/rioters/vandals, and think they should be unimpeded?

Perhaps if the officers stepped in when peaceful protests turn peaceful, we wouldn't have an issue.
 

Circa

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He needs his own radio show lol.
If he were white, he'd get canceled for being racist.

I'M PRETTY SURE I DISAGREE. He Is a human being that understands,... what's going on.

I ordered Chinese food tonight and It was great. Should I say I ate a cat/dog?
 

Irish YJ

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I'M PRETTY SURE I DISAGREE. He Is a human being that understands,... what's going on.

I ordered Chinese food tonight and It was great. Should I say I ate a cat/dog?

disagree with what?

1. he needs his own radio show

or

2. he'd be called racist if he were white and said the same thing
 

irishff1014

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I'M PRETTY SURE I DISAGREE. He Is a human being that understands,... what's going on.

I ordered Chinese food tonight and It was great. Should I say I ate a cat/dog?

You are bat. I have only one question. Was it done in 10 minute? Lol
 

Legacy

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Albuquerque PD Consent Decree

Albuquerque PD Consent Decree

The DOJ in conjunction with the US Attorney's Office notified the City of their findings on April 10, 2014. Albuquerque remains under the supervision of

Based on our investigation, we have reasonable cause to believe that APD engages in a
pattern or practice of use of excessive force, including deadly force, in violation of the Fourth Amendment and Section 14141. Our investigation included a comprehensive review of APD’s operations and the City’s oversight systems. We have determined that structural and systemic deficiencies—including insufficient oversight, inadequate training, and ineffective policies contribute to the use of unreasonable force. At the conclusion of this letter, we outline the remedial measures that we believe are necessary to ensure that force is used in accordance with the Constitution. In some instances, these recommendations build on measures and initiativesthat are already underway within the department.

We recognize the challenges faced by officers in Albuquerque and in communities across
the nation every day. Policing can be dangerous; at times, officers must use force, including deadly force, to protect themselves and others in the course of their work. The use of force by police is guided by the need to protect public safety and the duty to protect individuals from unreasonable searches and seizures under the Fourth Amendment. While most force used by APD officers is within these strictures, a significant amount falls short of these requirements. Although APD has taken steps to allay the public’s concerns about the department’s use of force, these initiatives have been insufficient to ensure consistent accountability. They also have not addressed longstanding deficiencies that have allowed a culture of indifference to constitutional
policing and insularity to develop within the department.

Summary of Findings:
We find this pattern or practice in the following areas:
(1) Albuquerque police officers too often use deadly force in an unconstitutional manner
in their use of firearms. To illustrate, of the 20 officer-involved shootings resulting in
fatalities from 2009 to 2012, we concluded that a majority of these shootings were unconstitutional. Albuquerque police officers often use deadly force in circumstances
where there is no imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm to officers or
others. Instead, officers used deadly force against people who posed a minimal
threat, including individuals who posed a threat only to themselves or who were
unarmed. Officers also used deadly force in situations where the conduct of the
officers heightened the danger and contributed to the need to use force.

(2) Albuquerque police officers also often use less lethal force in an unconstitutional
manner. We reviewed a random sample of the department’s use of force reports
completed by officers and supervisors between 2009 and early 2013. Our sample
consisted of over 200 force reports. We find that officers frequently misused
electronic control weapons (commonly referred to by the brand name “Tasers”),2
resorting to use of the weapon on people who are passively resisting, observably nonthreatening but unable to comply with orders due to their mental state, or posed only a minimal threat to the officers. Officers also often used Tasers in dangerous
situations. For example, officers fired Tasers numerous times at a man who had
poured gasoline on himself. The Taser discharges set the man on fire, requiring
another officer to extinguish the flames. This endangered all present. Additionally,
Albuquerque police officers often use unreasonable physical force without regard for
the subject’s safety or the level of threat encountered. Officers frequently use
takedown procedures in ways that unnecessarily increase the harm to the person.
Finally, officers escalate situations in which force could have been avoided had they
instead used de-escalation measures.

(3) A significant amount of the force we reviewed was used against persons with mental
illness and in crisis. APD’s policies, training, and supervision are insufficient to
ensure that officers encountering people with mental illness or in distress do so in a
manner that respects their rights and is safe for all involved.

(4) The use of excessive force by APD officers is not isolated or sporadic. The pattern or
practice of excessive force stems from systemic deficiencies in oversight, training,
and policy. Chief among these deficiencies is the department’s failure to implement
an objective and rigorous internal accountability system. Force incidents are not
properly investigated, documented, or addressed with corrective measures.


We found only a few instances in the incidents we reviewed where supervisors
scrutinized officers’ use of force and sought additional investigation. In nearly all cases,
supervisors endorsed officers’ version of events, even when officers’ accounts were incomplete, were inconsistent with other evidence, or were based on canned or repetitive language. The department has also failed to implement its force policies consistently, including requirements that officers properly document their use of force, whether by lapel cameras, audio tapes, or in reports. The department does not use other internal review systems, such as internal affairs and the early intervention system, effectively. These internal accountability and policy failures combine with the department’s inadequate training to contribute to uses of excessive force.
Additionally, serious limitations in the City’s external oversight processes have allowed many of these deficiencies to continue unabated.

As a result of the department’s inadequate accountability systems, the department often
endorses questionable and sometimes unlawful conduct by officers. The prior criminal history and background of individuals who are the subject of police force also typically receive greater scrutiny than the actions of officers. These practices breed resentment in the community and promote an institutional disregard for constitutional policing.

https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...2015/01/20/140410 DOJ-APD Findings Letter.pdf

Deadly force when not needed and when there is no imminent threat and sometimes unarmed, systemic lack of internal accountability, endorsing questionable and sometimes unlawful conduct, inadequate training, little supervision, failure to implement reforms or officers documenting their behavior by lapel cameras or other ways, in almost all cases supervisors accepting officers version of events, community resentment and distrust.

In city after city we are hearing the same themes and having to revisit the same issues. Race was not brought up in the consent decree for Albuquerque, though. Just the systemic problems that plague cities nationally. The connection to heavily-armed militia groups has not been documented in other cities.

Video shows Albuquerque police killing homeless man
By David Fitzpatrick and Drew Griffin, CNN Investigations
Updated 12:05 PM ET, Sun June 22, 2014

It is just one more in a long line of police killings that has the city's Police Department on the verge of federal oversight.
 
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Irish#1

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It's not like Onate was George Washington or something. WTF would these guys go to the trouble to "protect his statue" unless they really wanted to be there intimidate protesters??

Maybe it's as simple as that. Maybe they are tired of statues all over being pulled down and just want to protect the statue? Interesting that protesters want statues taken down because they find them offensive, but they haven't tried to tear down the Washington or Jefferson monuments. Both of those American heros were slave owners.
 

Irish#1

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How much of that history do you change by pulling down a statue or renaming a building? As the saying goes, history isn't for you to like or dislike. It's for you to learn from. We're going down an Orwellian 1984 path when we start removing statues, renaming buildings, removing books from libraries and curriculums and trying to rewrite or even erase history to fit whatever movement or narrative is in vogue right now. That's Nazi, USSR, Taliban, Pol Pot, Mao sorta stuff.

George Santayana, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

Leave the statues up and learn from them. 100 years from now citizens will look back at this time and wonder WTF were they thinking?
 

IrishLion

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When you ask a cop to pull up to the penalty box because the Egg McMuffins aren't ready:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Stacey who has been a cop for 15 yrs went to <a href="https://twitter.com/McDonalds?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@McDonalds</a> She paid for it in advance and this is how she gets treated for being a cop&#55357;&#56866;&#55357;&#56865; Come on America. We are better than this. <a href="https://t.co/IcudsNfVLY">pic.twitter.com/IcudsNfVLY</a></p>— &#55356;&#57143;&#55356;&#56826;&#55356;&#56824;Ann&#55356;&#56826;&#55356;&#56824;&#55356;&#57143;&#55357;&#56327; (@tkag2020_ann) <a href="https://twitter.com/tkag2020_ann/status/1273075677454098436?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 17, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Irish#1

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Sad and embarrassing for America. This entire uproar is going to make many quit their police jobs and also impact the number of applicants. We need better rules and guidelines for policing, not fewer policemen.
 

Legacy

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I applaud those policemen who stick to their idea of what policing should be and quit. Policing will change in America and they don't want to change with it. Accountability to the community and transparency are the future. Unfortunately, that does not mean cities won't be sued for actions some of them committed. They preserve their pensions.

Evidently, the county's police for outside the city of Albuquerque refuse to wear body cams until legislation passes that force them to. Maybe then the county will see police quitting. If city police don't like the body cams and accountability for changes due to the Consent Decree, they can always flee to their Sheriffs department.

A Washington Post-Schar School poll shows roughly three-quarters of Americans support the protests, and a wide majority, 69%, say they see the killing of Floyd as a sign of broader problems in policing. A poll six years ago showed just 43% found the killings of unarmed black men as signs of larger problems.
 
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TorontoGold

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Sad and embarrassing for America. This entire uproar is going to make many quit their police jobs and also impact the number of applicants. We need better rules and guidelines for policing, not fewer policemen.

I think the reaction around the world (at least in Canada specifically) is we're pretty damn proud of what American's are doing right now. I think a lot of the unrest and introspection has brought a ton positive feelings towards Americans. While the destruction that has come with these protests is certainly bad no matter how you look at, and there's policy points that need to be debated (defunding etc), I believe this has been a positive moment for the US.

Even the polling come from American's is that they generally support some sort of police reform.
 

MJ12666

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Maybe it's as simple as that. Maybe they are tired of statues all over being pulled down and just want to protect the statue? Interesting that protesters want statues taken down because they find them offensive, but they haven't tried to tear down the Washington or Jefferson monuments. Both of those American heros were slave owners.

Jefferson came down this past Sunday in Oregon. Washington cannot be far behind.

Sunday night protesters tore down a statue of Thomas Jefferson, the third president of the United States who also owned over 600 slaves during his lifetime, outside his namesake high school in North Portland.

Jefferson High School was the beginning point for a Sunday march organized by Rose City Justice to protest police violence and the killing of George Floyd.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland...front-of-portlands-jefferson-high-school.html
 

Bishop2b5

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How long until the people of Washington state decide to change their state's name? Maybe they can declare CHAZ their new state capital.
 

Irish#1

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I applaud those policemen who stick to their idea of what policing should be and quit. Policing will change in America and they don't want to change with it. Accountability to the community and transparency are the future. Unfortunately, that does not mean cities won't be sued for actions some of them committed. They preserve their pensions.

Evidently, the county's police for outside the city of Albuquerque refuse to wear body cams until legislation passes that force them to. Maybe then the county will see police quitting. If city police don't like the body cams and accountability for changes due to the Consent Decree, they can always flee to their Sheriffs department.

A Washington Post-Schar School poll shows roughly three-quarters of Americans support the protests, and a wide majority, 69%, say they see the killing of Floyd as a sign of broader problems in policing. A poll six years ago showed just 43% found the killings of unarmed black men as signs of larger problems.

I think the reaction around the world (at least in Canada specifically) is we're pretty damn proud of what American's are doing right now. I think a lot of the unrest and introspection has brought a ton positive feelings towards Americans. While the destruction that has come with these protests is certainly bad no matter how you look at, and there's policy points that need to be debated (defunding etc), I believe this has been a positive moment for the US.

Even the polling come from American's is that they generally support some sort of police reform.

Part of the problem is the reaction is against all policemen and many want immediate changes like reducing funding for police. They're reacting with their emotions and not thinking how to fix these problems. It's commonly accepted that the majority of policemen are good people and conduct themselves properly, yet all of them get thrown in the same pot because of the bad apples. Reducing funding isn't going to eliminate bad policemen. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If nothing else, funding should be increased so better psychological testing can be made during the application process and then have regular psychological testing of all policemen after they are on the force to ensure we keep the idiots from wearing a badge. Guidelines on physical restraint, medical attention, etc. need to be revamped as well, but it still comes down to who's wearing a badge.
 

tadman95

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Part of the problem is the reaction is against all policemen and many want immediate changes like reducing funding for police. They're reacting with their emotions and not thinking how to fix these problems. It's commonly accepted that the majority of policemen are good people and conduct themselves properly, yet all of them get thrown in the same pot because of the bad apples. Reducing funding isn't going to eliminate bad policemen. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If nothing else, funding should be increased so better psychological testing can be made during the application process and then have regular psychological testing of all policemen after they are on the force to ensure we keep the idiots from wearing a badge. Guidelines on physical restraint, medical attention, etc. need to be revamped as well, but it still comes down to who's wearing a badge.

Best comment I read all day. Excellent
 

Henges24

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Multiple Atlanta police departments are reporting that their deputies are not showing up for their shifts tonight after the murder charge. Asking outside city departments to come in to fill.

I'll share a link once a more reliable source becomes available.
 

calvegas04

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Good, if they are not aloud to do their jobs then whats the point?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Text from APD officer: <br><br>“I can confirm the walk-off is real. Whole shifts have left and overnight shifts are refusing to come in”</p>— Johnny (Joey) Jones (@Johnny_Joey) <a href="https://twitter.com/Johnny_Joey/status/1273410532872261633?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 18, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Irish YJ

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Multiple Atlanta police departments are reporting that their deputies are not showing up for their shifts tonight after the murder charge. Asking outside city departments to come in to fill.

I'll share a link once a more reliable source becomes available.

Local news is talking about it. There is also talk about some showing up to work, but basically refusing to take any emergency calls (CNN reported that earlier). Not sure if true. I've heard Decatur PD had several walk out (10+). APD is denying that there are walkouts, but not sure I believe that. I do know that they are pissed off. I'll be talking with an Atlanta sheriff in a bit, and most of his buds are APD and GBI.

Overall, Atlanta's PD is almost 60% African American, which is a higher % than ATL's demographics. People acting like they're a bunch of racists is twilight zone stuff. The DA is shameful. Bringing charges of murder is insane, and doing so before the GBI even concludes their investigation screams politics. At most it's manslaughter, and I highly doubt that would stick. This is over charging and politics pure and simple. Several African American chiefs from all over GA have come out and said it was clearly justified by their policy.

The DA by the way is a scumbag anyway. He's under investigation for two things now. The GBI is investigating him for financial crimes, and he was accused of sexual harassment late last year which I think is still ongoing. ATL politics is pretty icky and has been for a long time.
 
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