Police State USA

[TorontoGold]

The guy is walking away and trying to avoid a fight. He is mobbed, hit with a skateboard, thrown to the ground before pulling the gun out. All while people are screaming 'get him' and 'were going to kill you'.

I don't care if he's a member of anything, you have a right to fucking defend yourself from people trying to bash your head in.

The guy showed up with his "Civil Guard" buddies to intimidate them. Starts causing a scene in the crowd and gets hit with the skateboard. Police have said they suspect vigilante groups to have instigated the fight. If you watch the video in tweet they linked in the "article" you posted, the people are clearly saying "he's going to kill you", not we're going to kill you.

What happened to fighting with your fists like a man instead of pulling out a gun and firing on people at a protest.

 

[Sea Turtle]

The guy showed up with his "Civil Guard" buddies to intimidate them. Starts causing a scene in the crowd and gets hit with the skateboard. Police have said they suspect vigilante groups to have instigated the fight. If you watch the video in tweet they linked in the "article" you posted, the people are clearly saying "he's going to kill you", not we're going to kill you.

What happened to fighting with your fists like a man instead of pulling out a gun and firing on people at a protest.

Fighting with your fists went out the door when it became 10 on 1 in these incidences.

I think I get it though. If your a left wing mob, it's ok to intimidate and crush people. If you are a right wing individual or a handful of them, you have to take your beat down.

 

[TorontoGold]

Fighting with your fists went out the door when it became 10 on 1 in these incidences.

I think I get it though. If your a left wing mob, it's ok to intimidate and crush people. If you are a right wing individual or a handful of them, you have to take your beat down.

I don't think it's right to beat a guy senseless at all. If you're there with your buddies who are armed to the teeth, wouldn't you expect them to step in if there's a serious threat to your life?

Sure seems like a lot of people end up dead or seriously injured if they're part of the "left wing mob".

 

[goldandblue]

I don't think it's right to beat a guy senseless at all. If you're there with your buddies who are armed to the teeth, wouldn't you expect them to step in if there's a serious threat to your life?

Sure seems like a lot of people end up dead or seriously injured if they're part of the "left wing mob".

Well... I mean the "left wing mob" is rioting, looting, assaulting, tearing down statues, burning buildings, etc. When your involved in some of those activities there is a lot of room to get seriously injured or even killed.

 

[ulukinatme]

Guy was certainly within his right to shoot. He had been hit once with a skateboard, was completely backing away from the situation and was charged by people trying to assault him and take the gun. There was no need to charge him as he backed away, certainly looked like self defense.

 

[Legacy]

Antifa? A self-appointed, paramilitary Civil Guard with semi-automatics taking it on their won to "protect" the Onate sculpture? RedState is merely intending to inflame. Local reporting should be checked prior.

‘Horrified and disgusted beyond words’ (Alb Journal)

State leaders are condemning the violence.
Gov Lujan Grisham:

“Although we are still learning more about the situation, I am horrified and disgusted beyond words by the reports of violence at a protest Monday night in Albuquerque. The heavily armed individuals who flaunted themselves at the protest, calling themselves a ‘civil guard,’ were there for one reason: To menace protesters, to present an unsanctioned show of unregulated force. To menace the people of New Mexico with weaponry — with an implicit threat of violence — is on its face unacceptable; that violence did indeed occur is unspeakable.”

Police Chief Michael Geier said in a statement that APD is “receiving reports about vigilante groups possibly instigating this violence.”

“If this is true, (we) will be holding them accountable to the fullest extent of the law, including federal hate group designation and prosecution,” he added.

(Fox and Alb Journal)

(Journal article above)

RedState's advice:

One can debate the wisdom of showing up at a mob scene of ravening leftists who have zero compunction about attacking people to oppose them; what one can’t debate is that they had a legal right to be there. New Mexico is an ‘open carry’ state, so the New Mexico Civil Guard seems to be well within their rights. And, if you do decide to take part in a counter-protest, this video makes the case that you’d damned well better be armed and prepared to use force to protect yourself.

The bleating by New Mexico’s Governor about ‘intimidation” is utter bullsh**. The mob wasn’t intimidated. In fact, they felt so empowered by the support Lujan Grisham has extended to these would-be Spartacist street fighters that they were comfortable documenting their assault on a citizen and their intent to murder him.

On the whole, I find it hard to get upset over this. These scum want to get rid of the police. Fine. If that’s the game they want to play and they want to engage in street violence, then it is time to take Kurt Schlichter’s advice. Buy guns and ammo because these people want you dead.

It seems to me as though the state and city government is condemning the violence to establish some order and institute the laws of the state.

Man shot in New Mexico at protest over statue of Spanish conquistador

 

[Sea Turtle]

Antifa? A self-appointed, paramilitary Civil Guard with semi-automatics taking it on their won to "protect" the Onate sculpture? RedState is merely intending to inflame. Local reporting should be checked prior.

‘Horrified and disgusted beyond words’ (Alb Journal)

State leaders are condemning the violence.
Gov Lujan Grisham:

(Fox and Alb Journal)

(Journal article above)

RedState's advice:

Yep. Take your beat down.

 

[dublinirish]

It's not like Onate was George Washington or something. WTF would these guys go to the trouble to "protect his statue" unless they really wanted to be there intimidate protesters??

 

[ulukinatme]

It's not like Onate was George Washington or something. WTF would these guys go to the trouble to "protect his statue" unless they really wanted to be there intimidate protesters??

You assume they were there to intimidate protesters, but we don't really know their intention. Regardless, the only aggression I saw was from the other group based on the video. The governor called it an "implicit threat of violence," but that isn't violence in and of itself. I would think an explicit threat of violence would be unacceptable. Simply being there with firearms doesn't mean they came to shoot anyone, the situation only escalated because one person was physically attacked.

 

[Sea Turtle]

You assume they were there to intimidate protesters, but we don't really know their intention. Regardless, the only aggression I saw was from the other group based on the video. The governor called it an "implicit threat of violence," but that isn't violence in and of itself. I would think an explicit threat of violence would be unacceptable. Simply being there with firearms doesn't mean they came to shoot anyone, the situation only escalated because one person was physically attacked.

Apparently only the 'peaceful' protesters are allowed to be there. And if you are someone else who is there and disagree with them, armed or not, you take your beat down and like it.

They had guns. It's an open carry permit state. Just like Washington, where armed citizens with AR&15s have literally taken over part of Seattle.

I really don't care what the Governor says here. She is jockeying to be Bidens Veep, and her entire statement was based on 'rumors'.

 

[Sea Turtle]

It's not like Onate was George Washington or something. WTF would these guys go to the trouble to "protect his statue" unless they really wanted to be there intimidate protesters??

WTF are people going through the trouble to tear them down? See how that works?

 

[snoopdog]

Apparently only the 'peaceful' protesters are allowed to be there. And if you are someone else who is there and disagree with them, armed or not, you take your beat down and like it.

They had guns. It's an open carry permit state. Just like Washington, where armed citizens with AR&15s have literally taken over part of Seattle.

I really don't care what the Governor says here. She is jockeying to be Bidens Veep, and her entire statement was based on 'rumors'.

I doubt the mob new the guy in the blue shirt was armed. No way they attack him if he is brandishing a pistol.

One thing that is confusing is, if he with the volunteer militia, why isn’t he camo’d up and open carrying his weapon?

 

[TorontoGold]

WTF are people going through the trouble to tear them down? See how that works?

Some of the statues are symbols of oppression for a large group of people.

 

[Irish YJ]

The guy showed up with his "Civil Guard" buddies to intimidate them. Starts causing a scene in the crowd and gets hit with the skateboard. Police have said they suspect vigilante groups to have instigated the fight. If you watch the video in tweet they linked in the "article" you posted, the people are clearly saying "he's going to kill you", not we're going to kill you.

What happened to fighting with your fists like a man instead of pulling out a gun and firing on people at a protest.

Lol... If you're getting beat by a skateboard and mobbed, fist don't work. How about the guy that cracks him with a skateboard use his fists, and the mob stay out of it. The above is simply dumb.

"Starts causing a scene in the crowd"? The crowd is unlawfully vandalizing public property. It was a statue on museum property. You act like you're some middle of the road guy, but this is a great example showing you're a troll, or at minimum, simply intellectually dishonest . You view a left wing mob that's vandalizing as positive, and anyone standing up to the mob as bad. I really don't give a shot about Onate, or his statue, but legally, the left wing mob is committing illegal acts pure and simple. But it's obvious that you're OK with mob violence so long as it's coming from the left.

I also don't see you speaking out of armed lefties like the ones in Seattle, if being armed is truly your beef.

That article is laughable, they misstate what was being shouted in the video "He's going F$%#ing to kill you" is what the people tearing down the statue were shouting. That video is more tame than any high school fight, give the incel a gun and someone gets shot.

Attacking someone with a skate board and 10 on 1 is tamer than HS.... more disingenuous stuff from you.

Antifa? A self-appointed, paramilitary Civil Guard with semi-automatics taking it on their won to "protect" the Onate sculpture? RedState is merely intending to inflame. Local reporting should be checked prior.

‘Horrified and disgusted beyond words’ (Alb Journal)

State leaders are condemning the violence.
Gov Lujan Grisham:

I wouldn't expect anything less from Lujan Grisham, who is a Dem, and on the short list to be Biden's VP. You really think quoting her moves the needle on this, or is some type of sage opinion on the topic? lol

Again, you're hypocrisy is showing. I've yet to see you clutch your pearls with any seriousness over the armed lefties in Seattle.

It's not like Onate was George Washington or something. WTF would these guys go to the trouble to "protect his statue" unless they really wanted to be there intimidate protesters??

Onate is not Lee, Davis, or Jackson either. He's a Spanish/Mexican conquistador from the 1500s. Only the indigenous folks have a beef with him and I didn't see any of them leading the mob. The statue is on museum property. The cleansing of history is idiocy. US history is full of warts, crimes, and bad actors.., as is Europe's and the rest of the world. Our warts should be on display to remind us. I'm hearing the left wants to replace some statues in TN with Dolly Parton. And no, that's not a joke.

 

[NorthDakota]

Some of the statues are symbols of oppression for a large group of people.

The Washington and Jefferson monuments...for example. And Mt. Rushmore.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Some of the statues are symbols of oppression for a large group of people.

How much of that history do you change by pulling down a statue or renaming a building? As the saying goes, history isn't for you to like or dislike. It's for you to learn from. We're going down an Orwellian 1984 path when we start removing statues, renaming buildings, removing books from libraries and curriculums and trying to rewrite or even erase history to fit whatever movement or narrative is in vogue right now. That's Nazi, USSR, Taliban, Pol Pot, Mao sorta stuff.

 

[ACamp1900]

Some of the statues are symbols of oppression for a large group of people.

The fucking capital building is a sign of oppression for pretty much the majority of us,... let’s go tear it down.

 

[Irish YJ]

The fucking capital building is a sign of oppression for pretty much the majority of us,... let’s go tear it down.

Abortion clinics, NSA, and many other things make me feel oppressed.

Let's go!

 

[Bishop2b5]

The fucking capital building is a sign of oppression for pretty much the majority of us,... let’s go tear it down.

Not one historical figure from our history, European history, or world history was perfect. Not a single school is perfect. Nor any nations, or cities, or cultures, or religions, or any other institution. You can find something unsavory about ALL of them. Washington and Jefferson owned slaves. The British royal family was a major supporter and funder of slavery centuries ago.

The Romans, Greeks, Israelites, and virtually every other empire and civilization engaged in slavery at one time or another. African nations sold their own people into slavery. The Catholic Church has done some foul things over the centuries, as have the Muslims, Jews, and all the rest. Most universities in this nation were segregated at one time in the past.

MLK committed adultery and plagiarism. Does that mean we should erase him from history and denounce him and all the good he did? How about Gandhi? EVERY SINGLE ONE of our heroes, founding fathers, ancestors, and favorite religions, schools, empires and institutions have made mistakes and have stains on their history.

In other words, depending on your agenda and how deeply you want to look into someone or something, there's something to give you reason to tear down and destroy EVERY historical person or culture or institution. How much of this do we want to do? How much of this do we tolerate?

 

[TorontoGold]

The Washington and Jefferson monuments...for example. And Mt. Rushmore.

Northdakota & Bishop
See those monuments are where I disagree with some people on the Left. Keep em up, you celebrate their accomplishments despite some of the things they did. If their general body of work and the reason there is a monument from them is because they progressed something forward then I don't see why it needs to come down.

YJ I'll address your diatribe here.
1. No matter how much you want to call me a troll or some other shit, it won't stick. I've been able to get along with Praet in the Trump thread just fine recently (repped each other). I have a ton of respect for a lot of the right leaning posters here that take the time to listen to stuff from my Left ass.
2. I'm a pretty big pacifist and would not want to find myself in CHAZ or at the statue stuff.
3. I have a funny feeling you're the type of person to tweet at news org bitching and crying about unfair coverage...

Grow up man, I've been able to chat with other users and move past any prior differences. Quit following me around into other threads it's weird, pathetic, and you spend a lot of time on someone you think is a troll.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Northdakota & Bishop
See those monuments are where I disagree with some people on the Left. Keep em up, you celebrate their accomplishments despite some of the things they did. If their general body of work and the reason there is a monument from them is because they progressed something forward then I don't see why it needs to come down.

YJ I'll address your diatribe here.
1. No matter how much you want to call me a troll or some other shit, it won't stick. I've been able to get along with Praet in the Trump thread just fine recently (repped each other). I have a ton of respect for a lot of the right leaning posters here that take the time to listen to stuff from my Left ass.
2. I'm a pretty big pacifist and would not want to find myself in CHAZ or at the statue stuff.
3. I have a funny feeling you're the type of person to tweet at news org bitching and crying about unfair coverage...

Grow up man, I've been able to chat with other users and move past any prior differences. Quit following me around into other threads it's weird, pathetic, and you spend a lot of time on someone you think is a troll.

I've never called you a troll. I generally get along with you and the other liberals here and try to avoid any personal insults. I come up short there occasionally, but do my best to engage you with facts. I'm highly offended that you'd even insinuate I have a Twitter account.

I agree with you about taking the entire body of work into account. Unless someone was just a raving, murderous ass, leave their statues up and stop trying to erase them. Use even the "less good" ones as a teaching opportunity.

 

[TorontoGold]

I've never called you a troll. I generally get along with you and the other liberals here and try to avoid any personal insults. I come up short there occasionally, but do my best to engage you with facts. I'm highly offended that you'd even insinuate I have a Twitter account.

Haha my man, I addressed those comments at YJ not you.

My comments on the statue stuff was for you.

I know we don't see eye to eye on a bunch, but I know it's nothing personal at the end of the day.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Haha my man, I addressed those comments at YJ not you.

My comments on the statue stuff was for you.

I know we don't see eye to eye on a bunch, but I know it's nothing personal at the end of the day.

Yeah, I missed that on my first reading and when I replied. I went back and added a comment addressing your statues stance. I agree about it not being personal at the end of the day. I still don't have a Twitter account though... just want to make that clear!

 

[ACamp1900]

I like Toronto and Bluto,... they’re not like others that just clutch the pearls and bend everything into racism,... I mean they’re both bat shit crazy morons,... but at least you can talk to them.

 

[TorontoGold]

Yeah, I missed that on my first reading and when I replied. I went back and added a comment addressing your statues stance. I agree about it not being personal at the end of the day. I still don't have a Twitter account though... just want to make that clear!

All good man. I actually was vocally/actively against my university trying to take down some Canadian Prime Minister's statue. Part of the campus conservatives and all that jazz back in the day.

 

[TorontoGold]

I like Toronto and Bluto,... they’re not like others that just clutch the pearls and bend everything into racism,... I mean they’re both bat shit crazy morons,... but at least you can talk to them.

Nothing more disingenuous then a straight white guy on the internet calling another guy on the internet a racist.

 

[Irish YJ]

Northdakota & Bishop
See those monuments are where I disagree with some people on the Left. Keep em up, you celebrate their accomplishments despite some of the things they did. If their general body of work and the reason there is a monument from them is because they progressed something forward then I don't see why it needs to come down.

YJ I'll address your diatribe here.
1. No matter how much you want to call me a troll or some other shit, it won't stick. I've been able to get along with Praet in the Trump thread just fine recently (repped each other). I have a ton of respect for a lot of the right leaning posters here that take the time to listen to stuff from my Left ass.
2. I'm a pretty big pacifist and would not want to find myself in CHAZ or at the statue stuff.
3. I have a funny feeling you're the type of person to tweet at news org bitching and crying about unfair coverage...

Grow up man, I've been able to chat with other users and move past any prior differences. Quit following me around into other threads it's weird, pathetic, and you spend a lot of time on someone you think is a troll.

I've had twitter for probably 5 years. Don't have FB. I've used Twitter primarily to follow ND recruiting and simply read. I probably have less than 10 tweets, and most of those are pics from ND games.

I'm here for all things ND and delve into the political stuff. You're not here for anything ND per your posting history, hence the troll criticism. If you think others don't suspect, OK...

It's funny you react to the troll component of my post, and ignore the other aspects and criticism.

 

[Circa]

Lol... If you're getting beat by a skateboard and mobbed, fist don't work. How about the guy that cracks him with a skateboard use his fists, and the mob stay out of it. The above is simply dumb.

"Starts causing a scene in the crowd"? The crowd is unlawfully vandalizing public property. It was a statue on museum property. You act like you're some middle of the road guy, but this is a great example showing you're a troll, or at minimum, simply intellectually dishonest . You view a left wing mob that's vandalizing as positive, and anyone standing up to the mob as bad. I really don't give a shot about Onate, or his statue, but legally, the left wing mob is committing illegal acts pure and simple. But it's obvious that you're OK with mob violence so long as it's coming from the left.

I also don't see you speaking out of armed lefties like the ones in Seattle, if being armed is truly your beef.



Attacking someone with a skate board and 10 on 1 is tamer than HS.... more disingenuous stuff from you.



I wouldn't expect anything less from Lujan Grisham, who is a Dem, and on the short list to be Biden's VP. You really think quoting her moves the needle on this, or is some type of sage opinion on the topic? lol

Again, you're hypocrisy is showing. I've yet to see you clutch your pearls with any seriousness over the armed lefties in Seattle.



Onate is not Lee, Davis, or Jackson either. He's a Spanish/Mexican conquistador from the 1500s. Only the indigenous folks have a beef with him and I didn't see any of them leading the mob. The statue is on museum property. The cleansing of history is idiocy. US history is full of warts, crimes, and bad actors.., as is Europe's and the rest of the world. Our warts should be on display to remind us. I'm hearing the left wants to replace some statues in TN with Dolly Parton. And no, that's not a joke.

I'm curious as to how you can still label something politically right or left?
I tend to agree with 70% of your opinions, and We are both friends from another street on planet human being....


The absurd Idea that left and right are opposites,(politically) should be considered a terrorist act.

 

[ACamp1900]

Nothing more disingenuous then a straight white guy on the internet calling another guy on the internet a racist.

Whatever moron,...

 

[Ndaccountant]

It's not like Onate was George Washington or something. WTF would these guys go to the trouble to "protect his statue" unless they really wanted to be there intimidate protesters??

Some of the statues are symbols of oppression for a large group of people.

I can't speak for every town, but where I am from, there is/was generally a process where elected community figures seek feedback from the community on how to memorialize people/events with things like a statue. Consensus is reached and people move on.

Mob rule is not something we should condone nor sit blindly to. While elected officials may see this as a time for letting steam out of the kettle, many community members across the country don't want to have pick up the pieces. They like their community. They want to adhere to the process for which people govern.

Sure, people obviously feel disenfranchised by the system, and that is something we need to collectively work on and work through. But mob rule and destruction of property is not the way to reach consensus. It ends up driving people further apart.

I don't condone what the mob did and I don't condone people taking up arms to fight the mob. Both sides are wrong. Unfortunately, elected officials in charge of governing are allowing this to happen.