Police State USA

[tommyIRISH23]

I agree that the media is horrific at doing their jobs. Absolutely god awful at it.

With that said, the two details you just listed and even you, yourself, pointed out do not warrant a death sentence for Castile. That's the problem with police training. They've instilled so much fear in these guys (while also removing the accountability aspect) that they have a shoot first mentality without worrying about the consequences. You're always talking about due process, Wiz. So why have we given police the authority and ability to override that without question?

1) Any normal human being could've taken a deep breath, got a better look at situation and realized that neither "suspect" was armed or a danger to themselves or anyone else.

2) Someone mentioned above that the man who was shot deserves to be rightfully compensated. I agree. But I also believe the police officer should be severely punished. See this is part of the problem: Cops are allowed to shoot people (in this case a completely innocent person) and what happens most of the time? They get suspended, fired, fined? Worst case some (very few) are imprisoned. To me, that is fucked up. Where is the accountability? (At my college a cop-in-training...IN TRAINING...had a gun and killed a drunk college kid because of a false report. NOTHING happened to the cop aside from being fired. Why in the hell is that acceptable?)[/QUOTE

are you kidding me? Where did you get this from and based off what? Police training instills fear? How much police training have you had? How many police training courses have you reviewed? This bullshit may sound great and educated within your little circle of loud mouths that have no experience and/or experience that's at best described as artificial (college professors "experts" in criminology that have never had any hands on experience as a cop or as providing training for cops. Do yourself a favor- keep your mouth shut until you do your own research and have some kind of data to back it up. You have the right to a well educated opinion, not an base less and ill informed assumption based opinion that is nothing short of ignorant and uneducated.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Not only that... BUT THEY SHOT THE WRONG GUY.

Even if you think the Autistic guy had the weapon... you shoot the guy that's laying on the ground and complying with your commands instead?

Sounds almost like someone is a terrible shot, and had his finger on the trigger when he shouldn't have.

The other alternatives are all even worse to think about.

This.
I believe they say he shot 3 times and hot the wrong guy once on the leg.

I'm done commenting on these things until we learn more information.

Just recently it came out that Philando Castile matched the description of an armed robbery suspect and that there was no broken taillight on his car

Except the fact they said he clearly was missing a key feature to the suspect. I don't remember what exactly, It may have been a clear difference in facial hair.

 

[wizards8507]

Except the fact they said he clearly was missing a key feature to the suspect. I don't remember what exactly, It may have been a clear difference in facial hair.

I'm not saying he was the guy who did the armed robbery. I'm saying the police may have believed him to be the guy who did the armed robbery, which may explain their sensitivity to any perceived sudden movements.

Again, I'm not saying this was or was not handled correctly, just that it would be nice if all the facts made their way into the journalism.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

are you kidding me? Where did you get this from and based off what? Police training instills fear? How much police training have you had? How many police training courses have you reviewed? This bullshit may sound great and educated within your little circle of loud mouths that have no experience and/or experience that's at best described as artificial (college professors "experts" in criminology that have never had any hands on experience as a cop or as providing training for cops. Do yourself a favor- keep your mouth shut until you do your own research and have some kind of data to back it up. You have the right to a well educated opinion, not an base less and ill informed assumption based opinion that is nothing short of ignorant and uneducated.

Lol.

You assume I've done no research. You'd be wrong. So now who here has the "base less and ill informed assumption based on opinion?" It's not me...just sayin.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Lol.

You assume I've done no research. You'd be wrong. So now who here has the "base less and ill informed assumption based on opinion?" It's not me...just sayin.

Because I don't believe for a second that you did any meaningful research and came to the conclusion that during the course of training that police officers are "instilled with fear". Unless I am interpreting your comment completely wrong, as in police officers are taught that people are going to hurt them in some kind of way or an "us against the world" mentality, I am certain that your research and/or conclusions are at best ill informed. So, enlighten me....what research have you done and how exactly are police officers instilled with fear. This should be interesting.

 

[ulukinatme]

A lot of these shootings the media wants to paint the victim as squeaky clean, good citizen. That's certainly not always the case, and we rarely get all the facts. This Miami shooting today...don't know what was going on there, definitely looks like a fuck up. Probably bad trigger discipline as others have suggested. I think everyday citizens need to chill a bit too. They phone the cops and say a guy has a gun in the street, that's immediately escalating a situation with bad information. I support law enforcement, and more often than not I'm siding with them in these cases, but unless some new facts come out this looks like a fuck up. He obviously didn't shoot to kill with a shot to the leg, which makes me think it was an accidental fire and poor training.

 

[kmoose]

But I also believe the police officer should be severely punished. See this is part of the problem: Cops are allowed to shoot people (in this case a completely innocent person) and what happens most of the time? They get suspended, fired, fined? Worst case some (very few) are imprisoned. To me, that is fucked up. Where is the accountability? (At my college a cop-in-training...IN TRAINING...had a gun and killed a drunk college kid because of a false report. NOTHING happened to the cop aside from being fired. Why in the hell is that acceptable?)

Here is the thing..........

People make mistakes. Granted, shooting someone is just about the very pinnacle of severity on the mistake chain, but it is still a mistake. IF you can prove that that mistake was brought on by wanton disregard for proper procedure, complete and utter recklessness, or deliberately hyper-aggressive behavior; then absolutely the cop should face charges. But people make honest mistakes. There is strong evidence to indicate that Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire. Should those guys go to jail? This case in Miami is obviously more cut and dried, but MANY of these cases of cops shooting someone involve split second decisions where the cops feel compelled to choose between their own life, or another's. Sometimes that choice is justified, sometimes it isn't. But in both cases, it is incredibly difficult, if not impossible, for a person to be right 100% of the time. So what type of person are you going to get, to take a job where if they hesitate for a split second, they might very well die. Or, if they don't hesitate, and some slick lawyer Monday Morning QBs their decision in court and convinces a jury, they might spend the rest of their life in jail............. amongst people that maybe THEY put there. Jails a bad place for anyone, but cops are even more "special" in prison. We have to give Law Enforcement Officers SOME protections against "the wrong choice", but we can't NOT have them accountable for malicious or grossly negligent choices. The question is.......... where do we draw the line. I think most reasonable people understand that concept. Unfortunately, the loudest ones seem to be those that DON'T understand it.

 

[pkt77242]

Police union says officers accidentally shot Miami man

Not buying it.

 

[ulukinatme]

Police union says officers accidentally shot Miami man

Not buying it.

So the Hispanic cop shot the black man in the leg on purpose?

 

[pkt77242]

So the Hispanic cop shot the black man in the leg on purpose?

From the article

North Miami police officer felt Charles Kinsey's life was in danger when he decided to fire. Kinsey, a behavioral therapist, was trying to comfort an autistic patient who wandered away from his group home on Monday.

Cell phone video shows Kinsey lying on his back with his arms in the air pleading with officers not to fire. Rivera said officers could not hear Kinsey's pleas and believed that the autistic man was holding a gun and was about to fire. Because of that, the officer was trying to shoot the autistic man, but he missed - and the bullet struck Kinsey instead, according to Rivera.

The cop fucked up and never should have fired his weapon (as you have previously stated he probably had his finger on the trigger when shouldn't have or he was a tad trigger happy, etc.). Instead of admitting it, they gave us this story. I call bullshit.

 

[wizards8507]

Philadelphia police union slams Hillary Clinton over choice of speakers at convention - Washington Times

Sent from my Galaxy Note4 using Tapatalk.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

From the article


The cop fucked up and never should have fired his weapon (as you have previously stated he probably had his finger on the trigger when shouldn't have or he was a tad trigger happy, etc.). Instead of admitting it, they gave us this story. I call bullshit.

Rule #1- your finger does not go on the trigger unless you intend to shoot. Problem is a lot of people draw their gun for constructive force with their finger on the trigger. Adrenaline dump...nerves...whatever it may be can cause an AD with relative ease: dumb mistake hard to break and relatively common. Not to mention it causes a lot of self inflicted injuries.

That what it looks like to me. Dumb mistake but hardly intentional and certainly not trigger happy.

 

[pkt77242]

Rule #1- your finger does not go on the trigger unless you intend to shoot. Problem is a lot of people draw their gun for constructive force with their finger on the trigger. Adrenaline dump...nerves...whatever it may be can cause an AD with relative ease: dumb mistake hard to break and relatively common. Not to mention it causes a lot of self inflicted injuries.

That what it looks like to me. Dumb mistake but hardly intentional and certainly not trigger happy.

I am not arguing that it is intentional. I believe that it was an accidental discharge but the cops are saying that it was on purpose which is my biggest problem. Just admit that someone fucked up, don't make up a story and try to act as if he fired his weapon to protect the guy that he shot. That is what is so frustrating about this event. Just admit the fuck up (not you, the Miami PD).

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Philadelphia police union slams Hillary Clinton over choice of speakers at convention - Washington Times

Sent from my Galaxy Note4 using Tapatalk.

Yes. Michael Browns mother.

-armed robber
-assaulted a cop
-tried to steal a cops gun and use it on the cop.

For the rest of time we are going to have to hear the lie of the events propagated by politicians, the media and BLM. "Hands up, don't shoot" which of course never happened.

And to top it off- the DNC is backing the piece of trash that did and said these gems

OUTRAGEOUS: Why Is This Anti-Cop Activist HEADLINING the DNC? – twitchy.com

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I am not arguing that it is intentional. I believe that it was an accidental discharge but the cops are saying that it was on purpose which is my biggest problem. Just admit that someone fucked up, don't make up a story and try to act as if he fired his weapon to protect the guy that he shot. That is what is so frustrating about this event. Just admit the fuck up (not you, the Miami PD).

Totally agree. If that's what happened, just admit it. Just eat it. Makes the whole system look horrible

 

[wizards8507]

F*** THEM 2 COPS..DON’T GOT NO SYMPATHY FOR THEM OR THEY FAMILIES…Aint no FUN when the Rabbit got the GUN.

This woman is speaking at the Democrat convention. What world is this?

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[NorthDakota]

Eddy or GoIrish41 will be by soon to tell you about this world Wiz...

 

[ulukinatme]

F*** THEM 2 COPS..DON’T GOT NO SYMPATHY FOR THEM OR THEY FAMILIES…Aint no FUN when the Rabbit got the GUN.

This woman is speaking at the Democrat convention. What world is this?

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*Her.

Hillary really wants that African American vote.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/w-hnQAQXSmA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Bishop2b5]

F*** THEM 2 COPS..DON’T GOT NO SYMPATHY FOR THEM OR THEY FAMILIES…Aint no FUN when the Rabbit got the GUN.

This woman is speaking at the Democrat convention. What world is this?

Let's flip it around. Can you imagine the wife or mother of one of the slain police officers yelling, "F*** THOSE 2 COP KILLERS. I DON'T HAVE ANY SYMPATHY FOR THEM OR THEIR FAMILIES. Spray 'em like Bugs and shoot all the THUGS" and then being invited to speak at the RNC?

 

[NorthDakota]

Let's flip it around. Can you imagine the wife or mother of one of the slain police officers yelling, "F*** THOSE 2 COP KILLERS. I DON'T HAVE ANY SYMPATHY FOR THEM OR THEIR FAMILIES. Spray 'em like Bugs and shoot all the THUGS" and then being invited to speak at the RNC?

I've never heard this before. I love it.




No I don't advocate for use of pesticides on the families of cop-killers or the shooting of weapons at thugs without cause.

 

[Bishop2b5]

No I don't advocate for use of pesticides on the families of cop-killers or the shooting of weapons at thugs without cause.

And that's the point. Nobody's calling for such, and anyone who did would be shunned like the plague... yet say stuff like that about cops and you get invited to speak at the DNC.

 

[NorthDakota]

And that's the point. Nobody's calling for such, and anyone who did would be shunned like the plague... yet say stuff like that about cops and you get invited to speak at the DNC.

I'm with you, my brother on the Plain.

 

[pkt77242]

F*** THEM 2 COPS..DON’T GOT NO SYMPATHY FOR THEM OR THEY FAMILIES…Aint no FUN when the Rabbit got the GUN.

This woman is speaking at the Democrat convention. What world is this?

Sent from my Galaxy Note4 using Tapatalk.

I 100% agree that she shouldn't be speaking at the DNC, but I also think that the Bengazhi mother shouldn't have been speaking at the RNC either.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I 100% agree that she shouldn't be speaking at the DNC, but I also think that the Bengazhi mother shouldn't have been speaking at the RNC either.

I agree. I thought Obama was quite right last week when he called for both sides to dial back the inflammatory rhetoric in general and specifically at their conventions. Neither of these speakers are helping defuse the tension.

 

[kmoose]

I 100% agree that she shouldn't be speaking at the DNC, but I also think that the Bengazhi mother shouldn't have been speaking at the RNC either.

I would not have put her(Smith) up there to speak, but the difference is this:

The Benghazi mother(her name is Pat Smith, by the way) had something to say about the other candidate, directly. Unless I am mistaken, Donald Trump was never accused, much less implicated in, anything having to do with the death of Michael Brown? She's not up there to refute any claims that Trump has made about his involvement in Brown's death?

 

[wizards8507]

I 100% agree that she shouldn't be speaking at the DNC, but I also think that the Bengazhi mother shouldn't have been speaking at the RNC either.

Why not? Patricia Smith had something legitimate to say. Her message is that we can't let Hillary Clinton be commander in chief because her actions as Secretary of State were dishonest and dangerous. Agree or disagree, that's a valid political position.

Lezley McSpadden is speaking because... cops are racist because they shot her son after he robbed a liquor store, tried to steal a service weapon, and then charged an officer?

 

[wizards8507]

I would not have put her(Smith) up there to speak, but the difference is this:

The Benghazi mother(her name is Pat Smith, by the way) had something to say about the other candidate, directly. Unless I am mistaken, Donald Trump was never accused, much less implicated in, anything having to do with the death of Michael Brown? She's not up there to refute any claims that Trump has made about his involvement in Brown's death?

My man.

 

[pkt77242]

<iframe width="416" height="234" src="http://www.cnn.com/video/api/embed.html#/video/us/2016/07/22/violent-arrest-of-teacher-caught-on-cam-orig-vstan-dlewis.cnn" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Watch the whole thing, it gets interesting when the cop starts talking while driver her around after the arrest.

ETA: video is from 2015

 

[pkt77242]

I would not have put her(Smith) up there to speak, but the difference is this:

The Benghazi mother(her name is Pat Smith, by the way) had something to say about the other candidate, directly. Unless I am mistaken, Donald Trump was never accused, much less implicated in, anything having to do with the death of Michael Brown? She's not up there to refute any claims that Trump has made about his involvement in Brown's death?

Why not? Patricia Smith had something legitimate to say. Her message is that we can't let Hillary Clinton be commander in chief because her actions as Secretary of State were dishonest and dangerous. Agree or disagree, that's a valid political position.

Lezley McSpadden is speaking because... cops are racist because they shot her son after he robbed a liquor store, tried to steal a service weapon, and then charged an officer?

The problem is that Bengahzi investigation was a sham. It was meant as a way to politically hurt Clinton and in fact the investigation itself seems to point to no wrong doing on her part. Having that person on stage to talk about it was an emotional plea, not a logical argument. The emails would have been a much better way to attack Clinton (as Christie did) but there is no "great" grieving mother to attack Clinton over that.

As far as McSpadden goes, the problem with what you say is that when the officer didn't stop him for being a robbery suspect. People love to talk as if that was the reason but it wasn't (it was because he was walking down the middle of the street), I am not saying that he shouldn't have been stopped but the notion that he was stopped because he robbed the place is not true.

Ferguson chief: Officer didn't stop Brown as rob suspect - CNN.com

 

[ACamp1900]

Why not? Patricia Smith had something legitimate to say. Her message is that we can't let Hillary Clinton be commander in chief because her actions as Secretary of State were dishonest and dangerous. Agree or disagree, that's a valid political position.

Lezley McSpadden is speaking because... cops are racist because they shot her son after he robbed a liquor store, tried to steal a service weapon, and then charged an officer?

You forgot because rebuplicans are also racist...