Police State USA

[DomerInHappyValley]

I would say the cop was in the right, maybe he should have tasered first. But it is hard to say what is going through his mind while arresting a drunk guy that has been waving around a gun.

Problem with that is he was charged with murder, the guy was prone on the ground, and they are refusing to release body cam footage.

 

[military_irish]

The problem with stating he was an unarmed man is the fact the officers are unaware of this until after the fact.

They responded to a call about a man pointing a gun out of his hotel window. Until all individuals are handcuffed and searched the officers have no idea exactly how many weapons he has.

Hindsight is always 20/20 when looking back and evaluating a situation like this but being in the moment is a completely different monster all together.

I feel for both parties involved, may God be with them both.

 

[Irish#1]

https://www.facebook.com/bluematters/videos/495549927304453/.

It's never going to get better when there are those like her out there stirring up the masses.

 

[woolybug25]

I would say the cop was in the right, maybe he should have tasered first. But it is hard to say what is going through his mind while arresting a drunk guy that has been waving around a gun.

He didn't have the gun anymore and he was cooperating. He was on the ground, stomach first. Don't you think deadly force should be a little bit more controlled than that?

The problem with stating he was an unarmed man is the fact the officers are unaware of this until after the fact.

They responded to a call about a man pointing a gun out of his hotel window. Until all individuals are handcuffed and searched the officers have no idea exactly how many weapons he has.

Hindsight is always 20/20 when looking back and evaluating a situation like this but being in the moment is a completely different monster all together.

I feel for both parties involved, may God be with them both.

How do you know he didn't know it was a rifle from the call? You don't know that. Maybe we could evaluate that if they weren't trying to suppress the video footage.

I doubt any of you would be so quick to support deadly force if you are your family are the ones confronting it.

 

[military_irish]

He didn't have the gun anymore and he was cooperating. He was on the ground, stomach first. Don't you think deadly force should be a little bit more controlled than that?



How do you know he didn't know it was a rifle from the call? You don't know that. Maybe we could evaluate that if they weren't trying to suppress the video footage.

I doubt any of you would be so quick to support deadly force if you are your family are the ones confronting it.

I didn't say I fully support or that I am against it. I was simply stating the complexity of knowing if he is completely unarmed or not.

I worked in the City of Houston jail for four years and had my fair share of tense moments. For instance, an unruly individual was acting irrational. One of my co-workers was able to calm him down and began to walk towards him. The man was very calm and holding a regular conversation. As my co-worker got closer the man pulled a pen from his pocket and stabbed him in the face. This all occurred within less than a second. My co-worker had no time to react to this and was lucky to only require stitches.

My only reason for bringing this situation up is because regardless of the position you are in, have it be laying down or hands up. If you make any quick action especially toward your waist line, as supposedly it's being reported, you have no idea his intentions.

If we are ever able to see the video that shows the truth then I will obviously agree with what the video states and I am far from fully supportive of deadly force. It's having to make that decision which is the hardest thing to make.

The thing we were always taught is its our job to make it home to our families using the least amount of force as possible. Sometimes deadly force is the least option, unfortunately. I would never wish death upon another individual. I am just glad I don't have to be put in that situation anymore and hopefully I'll never be on the other end either.

 

[IrishLion]

How do you know he didn't know it was a rifle from the call? You don't know that. Maybe we could evaluate that if they weren't trying to suppress the video footage.

Is it common for videos like this to be withheld from the media until after the trial?

I know the media has a right to the info as it's public property, but the cop and the family of the victim also have the rights to a fair trial. But, unfortunately, there are so many cases like this that I can't even keep it straight as to whether or not these videos get released pre-trial or not in most cases.

We all know how the court of public opinion works, especially with social media driving the firestorms, so maybe it's better for everyone if the first time the video gets shown is at trial?

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

I didn't say I fully support or that I am against it. I was simply stating the complexity of knowing if he is completely unarmed or not.

I worked in the City of Houston jail for four years and had my fair share of tense moments. For instance, an unruly individual was acting irrational. One of my co-workers was able to calm him down and began to walk towards him. The man was very calm and holding a regular conversation. As my co-worker got closer the man pulled a pen from his pocket and stabbed him in the face. This all occurred within less than a second. My co-worker had no time to react to this and was lucky to only require stitches.

My only reason for bringing this situation up is because regardless of the position you are in, have it be laying down or hands up. If you make any quick action especially toward your waist line, as supposedly it's being reported, you have no idea his intentions.

If we are ever able to see the video that shows the truth then I will obviously agree with what the video states and I am far from fully supportive of deadly force. It's having to make that decision which is the hardest thing to make.

The thing we were always taught is its our job to make it home to our families using the least amount of force as possible. Sometimes deadly force is the least option, unfortunately. I would never wish death upon another individual. I am just glad I don't have to be put in that situation anymore and hopefully I'll never be on the other end either.

The problem with the we're taught to make it home to our families mentality is it's now leading to the public to have the same mentality when dealing with police.
A guy laying prone is obviously not as much as a threat as someone standing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most cop cars say "to protect and serve" not make it home to our families with the least amount of force possible?

 

[military_irish]

The problem with the we're taught to make it home to our families mentality is it's now leading to the public to have the same mentality when dealing with police.
A guy laying prone is obviously not as much as a threat as someone standing.

Being killed by an officer is completely over blown by the media. Roughly 9 million arrest are made a year and approximately 1000 people are killed by police officers. That's less than one percent. Also, this doesn't include the numerous traffic stops and calls that do not result in arrest.

I just did a quick statistics search through Bereau of Justice Statistics. Numbers can obviously waver one way or another but these are about right.

But let me make this clear again I in no way condone killing any human being if it can be avoided in any instance. I just feel the fear of officers and lack of understanding of what they truly go through on a daily basis is not properly depicted in many cases.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

Being killed by an officer is completely over blown by the media. Roughly 9 million arrest are made a year and approximately 1000 people are killed by police officers. That's less than one percent. Also, this doesn't include the numerous traffic stops and calls that do not result in arrest.

I just did a quick statistics search through Bereau of Justice Statistics. Numbers can obviously waver one way or another but these are about right.

But let me make this clear again I in no way condone killing any human being if it can be avoided in any instance. I just feel the fear of officers and lack of understanding of what they truly go through on a daily basis is not properly depicted in many cases.

It's not just people being killed though. How many more instances are there of police brutality?
The problem is the thin blue line, us vs. them mentality.
When you go into that mindset it's real simple to start treating police work as combat work.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/181312.pdf
Some pretty scary percentages for the questions being asked if you ask me.

 

[Domina Nostra]

It's not just people being killed though. How many more instances are there of police brutality?
The problem is the thin blue line, us vs. them mentality.
When you go into that mindset it's real simple to start treating police work as combat work.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/181312.pdf
Some pretty scary percentages for the questions being asked if you ask me.

I think the problem is that on issues like police brutality we are taught to have an us vs. them mentality. Not police vs. citizens, but democrats vs. republicans. The truth is that both groups are right, and both groups are wrong. But you either stick to the whole story on your side of the political aisle, or you are ignorant or a traitor.

Their are some very problematic aspects to how we police right now. The police seem to hire people who can't be trusted in positions of authority, are way too willing to fall back on extreme force, are often militarized against civilians, and circle the wagons and insist that their judgment calls are never to be questioned.

But the way criminals operate right now, and the way some neighborhoods exist, makes the Police feel extremely vulnerable and that their tactics are justified. Even the best and fairest aren't respected in some places, and that puts them in a huge predicament: its either force or chaos. You can't ask people to literally put their life on the line to maintain order while dealing with amoral fools, and then second guess them every time their actions seem mean or unjustified based on evidence that the police don't have at the time.

I think people really need to start asking what they expect out of the police, whether their ideas would actually be effective (i.e., serve the neighborhoods the police protect), and whether anyone would actually sign-up under the new regime (no one is going to put their life on the line in a hamstrung police force for $40k a year). On the other hand, we can't have a police state where the police effectively get to do whatever they want, whenever they want, with no consequences.

 

[pkt77242]

San Antonio schools fire police officer accused of body-slamming student - CNN.com

 

[pkt77242]

First-graders cuffed, arrested, charged; Murfreesboro outraged

The arrests at Hobgood Elementary School occurred after the students were accused of not stopping a fight that happened several days earlier off campus. A juvenile center later released the students, but local community members now call for action — police review of the incident and community conversation — and social justice experts across the country use words such as "startling" and "flabbergasted" in response to actions in the case.

They arrested children between the ages of 6-11 for not stopping a fight. Holy shit. Yep, lets expect our 6 year olds to hop in and break up fights.

 

[BGIF]

Baltimore police officer acquitted in Freddie Gray death | Reuters

Baltimore police officer acquitted in Freddie Gray death
By Donna Owens

BALTIMORE Baltimore police officer Edward Nero was acquitted on Monday of all charges in the 2015 death of black detainee Freddie Gray, the second setback for prosecutors in a case that triggered rioting and fueled the Black Lives Matter movement.

Baltimore City Circuit Court Judge Barry Williams, who heard the case in a bench trial, told a packed courtroom that Nero, 30, had acted as any officer would have during Gray's arrest in April 2015.

Nero is the second officer to be tried, and he faced misdemeanor charges of second-degree assault, reckless endangerment and two counts of misconduct in office. The first trial of an officer in 25-year-old Gray's death ended in a mistrial.

"Based on the evidence presented, this court finds that the state has not met its burden to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, all required elements of the crimes charged," Williams said. "Therefore, the verdict for each count is not guilty."

After the verdict, Nero leaned forward and wiped his eyes. He then hugged his attorneys.

Baltimore was calm after the verdict, with only a handful of protesters. Gray's death a week after his arrest sparked rioting in which nearly 400 buildings were damaged or destroyed in the majority black city of 620,000 people. The case helped stoke the national debate over policing in minority communities

State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby had charged Nero with arresting Gray without probable cause when he ran from him and other officers unprovoked. She also contended Nero did not secure Gray in a police transport van, where Gray suffered a fatal spinal injury.

Nero's lawyers had argued that Gray's arrest was justified and that the officer had little to do with it. Nero's partner, Garrett Miller, testified that Nero had done little during the arrest and that he, not Nero, had handcuffed and detained Gray.

Nero still faces an internal department investigation.

In a statement, defense attorney Marc Zayon said Nero appreciated Williams' "reasoned judgment" and called on Mosby to dismiss charges against the five other officers accused in the case.

Protesters chased a group of Nero's relatives into a parking garage and yelled, "No justice, no peace."

Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake issued a statement urging calm. In Gray's impoverished neighborhood in West Baltimore, residents said they were angry over the verdict but not surprised.

"In Baltimore and all over the country, nobody pays attention to poor black people unless something goes wrong," said William Griffith, a 65-year-old printer.

STRATEGY QUESTIONS IN FUTURE TRIALS

Tim Maloney, a Maryland lawyer who has handled police misconduct cases but was not involved in this trial, said Nero's acquittal raised questions for the prosecution about the remaining five trials, including whether to have police officers testify against each other.

He said prosecutors might decide to drop or alter charges. Officers also might opt for bench trials, seen as more favorable for police than jury trials, he said.

"This is a time for introspection for the state, although we haven't seen much of that so far," Maloney said.

The next officer on trial is Caesar Goodson Jr, the van driver. His trial starts on June 6 and charges include second-degree murder.

 

[BGIF]

Judge was right to acquit Baltimore cop - CNN.com

Judge was right to acquit Baltimore cop
Laura Coates

(CNN)As a prosecutor, you never try a case you can't win. Which begs the question of why in the world Baltimore prosecutors would even try Officer Edward Nero rather than focus their efforts on his fellow officers, who are facing the most serious charges.

Based on the facts in this case, Judge Williams was spot on in his decision to acquit Officer Nero of all charges brought in connection with the death of Freddie Gray.

The prosecution's theory of the case would have led to absurd results. Here is an officer who was not involved in the initial chase, handcuffing or transport of Freddie Gray. By all accounts the only time Nero ever touched Gray was to assist the already-handcuffed man with retrieving his inhaler.

The prosecution's ultimate theory was that Officer Nero assaulted Gray because, at the time of his arrest there was no probable cause to charge him with a crime, and therefore Officer Nero's involvement was akin to harassment and therefore any contact with Mr. Gray constituted an offensive touching.

Really? Let's think about this.

That would mean that every single time that an officer arrested an individual and the arrestee was not ultimately charged with a crime, the officer could be criminally charged with an assault. Most striking about this theory is that it completely ignores the fact that it is the prosecutor, and not the officer, who ultimately decides whether to criminally charge someone.

Here's how the process works. Although an officer can cite the reason you have been arrested, and even recommend a particular criminal charge, you have not officially been charged with a crime unless and until the prosecutor decides to do so.

As a prosecutor, I routinely exercised my discretion to charge a crime independent of the officer's insistence. There are a host of reasons why I might ultimately decide not to convert an arrestee to a defendant -- not the least of which is that there is no crime. I might question the credibility of the officer or a key witness. I might be missing key evidence. I may only have insufficient circumstantial evidence, where absolute proof is required.

Or, the offense itself may have been insignificant compared to the hundreds of other cases that came before me that day, and simply did not merit the devotion of legal resources needed to prosecute it. Like it or not, justice is sometimes a cost-benefit analysis.

This is precisely why punishing the officer for the ultimate decision of the prosecutor would set a dangerous precedent. This case came down to convincing a judge to ignore that danger and accept a novel (and incorrect) legal theory. A jury may have been more receptive to this.

Prosecutors routinely appeal to the passion and sympathy of a jury pool, strategically weaving the most provocative facts into their legal theory. After all, a man involuntarily entered a police van allegedly uninjured and left with a fatal spinal injury. Like teenagers trying to stick to their concocted story, no officer involved said they had any idea what happened.

To a jury, every hand that touched Mr. Gray could have contributed to his death, and jurors could have decided to convict based on that presumption. But a judge should and did require more. Like a prosecutor, a judge is presumably less influenced by passion than facts. And like a prosecutor, a judge is motivated by what is proven, not what you believe. This is the benefit of having a nonjury trial, and Officer Nero capitalized on it.

Calls for justice are understandable, but sadly, they are misguided in this case. Some complain that prosecutors rushed to judgment when they charged each of the officers for their involvement in the death of Freddie Gray and should have been more selective in their prosecution.

With a hung jury and now an acquittal under its belt, the complaint seems warranted. But hindsight aside, the complaint is simply naive. When you are prosecuting multiple defendants, and have no video footage of the crime, the prosecutors had two options: charge everyone in the hope that someone will talk, or grant immunity to the key witnesses and force them to testify against the real culprit.
Why do good cops excuse misdeeds of bad ones?

Immunity was an option but it would have required the prosecutors to know what precisely happened inside that van. They did not, and they chose not to risk immunizing the actual culprit. The latter method works with powerless defendants who are unfamiliar with or mistreated by the criminal justice system and are susceptible to trickery.

When it comes to trying multiple officers, however, the prosecutors just hit an unexpected wall of silence. And it was resoundingly blue.

But what worked in favor of Officer Nero will not work for each of the remaining officers. If we have learned anything from the trial testimony of Officers Porter and Nero, it is that the officers' collective finger points directly at the van's driver, Officer Caesar Goodson, for the fact that Gray was not seat belted in the back of the van.

In both cases, the defense's theory has been that the ultimate responsibility to seat belt Gray lay with the driver, and that the fatal injury occurred during his transport, not during the course of their officer's respective involvements. Whether Officer Goodson is a scapegoat or a culprit is for the remaining trials to decide.

 

[phgreek]

Judge was right to acquit Baltimore cop - CNN.com

Judge was right to acquit Baltimore cop
Laura Coates

The entirety of the Baltimore "leadership" are incompetent fools not deserving of a paycheck from the good people of that city. They aren't standing up for anything but hate...because that is all incompetent knows how to do...divide, manipulate, hate are survival skills of the incompetent.

 

[irishff1014]

Judge was right to acquit Baltimore cop - CNN.com

Judge was right to acquit Baltimore cop
Laura Coates

This is what happens when you have a bad states attorney.

 

[Irish#1]

(CNN)As a prosecutor, you never try a case you can't win. Which begs the question of why in the world Baltimore prosecutors would even try Officer Edward Nero rather than focus their efforts on his fellow officers, who are facing the most serious charges.

The reason he was charged, was to appease the angry citizens of Baltimore, but this was a waste of taxpayers money.

 

[BGIF]

3rd Officer Acquitted In Baltimore.

3rd Officer Acquitted In Baltimore.

Freddie Gray verdict: Baltimore officer who drove van not guilty on all charges - CNN.com

Baltimore police officer Caesar Goodson, who drove the van in which Freddie Gray was fatally injured, was found not guilty Thursday on all charges, including the most serious count of second-degree depraved-heart murder.

...

Gray, who was 25, suffered a devastating spinal injury and died in April 2015, about a week after he was arrested and placed into a prisoner van.
Though Gray's death became a symbol of the black community's distrust of police and triggered days of violent protests, the state has failed to secure a single conviction following three high-profile trials.
Three of the officers charged are white, three are black.

...

The prosecution painted Goodson as one of the worst protagonists in Gray's death.
But Judge Barry Williams disagreed, saying the state "failed to meet its burden to show that the actions of the defendant rose above mere civil negligence."
Goodson also faced charges of second-degree assault, misconduct in office, involuntary manslaughter, manslaughter by vehicles (gross negligence), manslaughter by vehicle (criminal negligence) and reckless endangerment.
Four other officers await trial, but legal experts are now questioning whether those cases will hold up.
"It does not bode well for prosecution," CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos said.
The verdict "sends a message to the public and to the courts and the prosecution that if you can't convict beyond a reasonable doubt as to a high charge like murder, what does it say about lesser crimes?"

...

The prosecution painted Goodson as one of the worst protagonists in Gray's death.
But Judge Barry Williams disagreed, saying the state "failed to meet its burden to show that the actions of the defendant rose above mere civil negligence."
Goodson also faced charges of second-degree assault, misconduct in office, involuntary manslaughter, manslaughter by vehicles (gross negligence), manslaughter by vehicle (criminal negligence) and reckless endangerment.
Four other officers await trial, but legal experts are now questioning whether those cases will hold up.
"It does not bode well for prosecution," CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos said.
The verdict "sends a message to the public and to the courts and the prosecution that if you can't convict beyond a reasonable doubt as to a high charge like murder, what does it say about lesser crimes?"

...

The bench trial featured clashes between prosecutors and members of the police department, who accused each other of misconduct in the highly sensational case.
In a statement, Gene Ryan, local president of the Fraternal Order of Police, urged that Mosby "reconsider her malicious prosecution against the remaining four officers."
"We are more than certain that they, too, will be found to be without guilt," he said, adding that the prosecutor of "playing politics" with the police department.
But Tessa Hill-Aston, president of the Baltimore City branch of the NAACP, said the fact Williams found said no evidence of a "rough ride" in the case did not mean the practice doesn't exist. On Twitter, her organization called the court decision "a wakeup call for Baltimore."

"Freddie is dead, and there's no justification for him being dead," she told CNN.
The Rev. C.D. Whitherspoon, a community activist, told CNN affiliate WBFF that the state's inability to convict a single officer represented a failure of the judicial system.
"We knew and they knew that this case was critical to the remaining cases," he said.

...

 

[pkt77242]

North Miami police officer shot caretaker of autistic man on ground | Miami Herald

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[BGIF]

Officer shoots caretaker of autistic man playing outside | The Sacramento Bee

By Charles Rabin
crabin@miamiherald.com
July 20, 2016 6:30 PM

NORTH MIAMI, Fla.

When a 23-year-old autistic man carrying a toy truck wandered from a mental health center out into the street Monday, a worker there named Charles Kinsey went to retrieve him.

A few minutes later the autistic man was still sitting cross-legged blocking the roadway while playing with the small, rectangular white toy. And Kinsey was prone on the ground next to him — a bullet from an assault rifle fired by a North Miami, Fla., police officer having struck his leg.

“He throws his hands up in the air and says, ‘Don’t shoot me.’ They say lie on the ground, so he does,” Kinsey’s attorney Hilton Napoleon said Wednesday. “He’s on his back with his hands in the air trying to convince the other guy to lie down. It doesn’t make any sense.”

Cellphone video footage obtained by Napoleon clearly shows the heavy-set autistic man sitting and playing with his toy while Kinsey, dressed in a yellow shirt and shorts, obeys police orders to lie down on his back.

The video, taken before the officer fired his weapon, shows Kinsey on his back with his hands in the air telling police he didn’t have a weapon and asking them not to fire. At one point the autistic man appears to yell at Kinsey to shut up. A second brief video shows officers who are carrying rifles physically patting down Kinsey and the autistic man while they are lying on the ground.

In an interview with WSVN-Channel 7, Kinsey said that after he was shot, officers approached and flipped him over and handcuffed him.

“Sir, there’s no need for firearms,” Kinsey told the news station he said to police before he was shot. “It was so surprising. It was like a mosquito bite.”

Kinsey said that when he asked the officer why he fired his weapon, the cop responded, “I don’t know.”

By Wednesday, North Miami police hadn’t offered much of an explanation. Assistant Police Chief Neal Cuevas said the investigation has been turned over to the Miami-Dade State Attorney’s Office.

Cuevas said officers received a 911 call indicating a man was in the street with a gun threatening to kill himself. They responded to Northeast 127th Street and about 14th Avenue and began barking orders. When the autistic man didn’t comply, an officer fired three times, striking Kinsey once in the leg. He was transported to Jackson Memorial Hospital.

Cuevas said he didn’t know who the officer was aiming at when he struck Kinsey. The offier’s name hasn’t been released.

In a prepared statement, North Miami police spokeswoman Natalie Buissereth said that “arriving officers attempted to negotiate with the two men on the scene, one of whom was later identified as suffering from autism ... At some point during the on-scene negotiation, one of the responding officers discharged his weapon.”

Police still hadn’t released any paperwork or the incident report of the shooting by Wednesday. There is no indication that a weapon of any kind was found. The officer who fired his weapon has been placed on administrative leave, as is standard, for at least a week.

Kinsey, 47, who has worked at MacTown Panther Group Homes for a little over a year, wasn’t badly injured and is expected to be home by Thursday.

By Wednesday, Napoleon said he was already negotiating a possible settlement with the city of North Miami.

“They realize this was something inappropriate regarding the shooting,” he said. “If police departments come out more and admit fault, that would probably go a long way” toward improving relations with the public, he said.

Still, the incident highlights the inherent dangers faced by police and the public in the wake of deadly police shootings in Dallas and Baton Rouge in which gunmen killed eight officers and wounded 10 others.

In dealing with the mentally ill, experts say, those dangers only multiply.

“I was more worried about him than myself,” Kinsey told Channel 7 of the autistic man, whose name hasn’t been released.

Said his wife, Joyce Kinsey: “I’m just grateful he’s alive and able to tell his story.”

 

[BleedBlueGold]

^ What in the absolute fuck is going on in this country?!

 

[IrishLion]

Unfuckingbelievable.

 

[Irish#1]

So many thoughts, Did this officer need more training? A pair of binoculars would have allowed the police to see it was a toy truck and not a weapon without getting in harms way. Thank God he wasn't mortally wounded. I'm a supporter of the police, but I hope this gentleman gets enough compensation to live comfortably the rest of his life.

 

[IrishLion]

So many thoughts, Did this officer need more training? A pair of binoculars would have allowed the police to see it was a toy truck and not a weapon without getting in harms way. Thank God he wasn't mortally wounded. I'm a supporter of the police, but I hope this gentleman gets enough compensation to live comfortably the rest of his life.

Not only that... BUT THEY SHOT THE WRONG GUY.

Even if you think the Autistic guy had the weapon... you shoot the guy that's laying on the ground and complying with your commands instead?

Sounds almost like someone is a terrible shot, and had his finger on the trigger when he shouldn't have.

The other alternatives are all even worse to think about.

 

[wizards8507]

I'm done commenting on these things until we learn more information.

Just recently it came out that Philando Castile matched the description of an armed robbery suspect and that there was no broken taillight on his car, so his girlfriend's story about being pulled over for that reason was false. But has this been reported anywhere? Of course not.

It also came out that Diamond Reynolds had posted a video two days prior to the shooting that showed her and Mr. Castile getting high... while driving a vehicle... with a four year old girl in the back seat. But has this been reported anywhere? Of course not.

Now, none of this is to say that he deserved to be killed for any of this stuff. But it throws major doubt (as if we needed it) on how the media reports these stories.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I'm done commenting on these things until we learn more information.

Just recently it came out that Philando Castile matched the description of an armed robbery suspect and that there was no broken taillight on his car, so his girlfriend's story about being pulled over for that reason was false. But has this been reported anywhere? Of course not.

It also came out that Diamond Reynolds had posted a video two days prior to the shooting that showed her and Mr. Castile getting high... while driving a vehicle... with a four year old girl in the back seat. But has this been reported anywhere? Of course not.

Now, none of this is to say that he deserved to be killed for any of this stuff. But it throws major doubt (as if we needed it) on how the media reports these stories.

I agree that the media is horrific at doing their jobs. Absolutely god awful at it.

With that said, the two details you just listed and even you, yourself, pointed out do not warrant a death sentence for Castile. That's the problem with police training. They've instilled so much fear in these guys (while also removing the accountability aspect) that they have a shoot first mentality without worrying about the consequences. You're always talking about due process, Wiz. So why have we given police the authority and ability to override that without question?

1) Any normal human being could've taken a deep breath, got a better look at situation and realized that neither "suspect" was armed or a danger to themselves or anyone else.

2) Someone mentioned above that the man who was shot deserves to be rightfully compensated. I agree. But I also believe the police officer should be severely punished. See this is part of the problem: Cops are allowed to shoot people (in this case a completely innocent person) and what happens most of the time? They get suspended, fired, fined? Worst case some (very few) are imprisoned. To me, that is fucked up. Where is the accountability? (At my college a cop-in-training...IN TRAINING...had a gun and killed a drunk college kid because of a false report. NOTHING happened to the cop aside from being fired. Why in the hell is that acceptable?)

 

[wizards8507]

I agree that the media is horrific at doing their jobs. Absolutely god awful at it.

With that said, the two details you just listed and even you, yourself, pointed out do not warrant a death sentence for Castile. That's the problem with police training. They've instilled so much fear in these guys (while also removing the accountability aspect) that they have a shoot first mentality without worrying about the consequences. You're always talking about due process, Wiz. So why have we given police the authority and ability to override that without question?

I'm not saying they should have any power "without question." By all means, question away. My point is not "this officer was innocent," my point is "we still don't know anything for sure."

1) Any normal human being could've taken a deep breath, got a better look at situation and realized that neither "suspect" was armed or a danger to themselves or anyone else.

We don't know that for sure, either. The video excludes the shooting itself.

ETA: Wait, do you mean Castile, or this new video?

2) Someone mentioned above that the man who was shot deserves to be rightfully compensated. I agree. But I also believe the police officer should be severely punished. See this is part of the problem: Cops are allowed to shoot people (in this case a completely innocent person) and what happens most of the time? They get suspended, fired, fined? Worst case some (very few) are imprisoned. To me, that is fucked up. Where is the accountability? (At my college a cop-in-training...IN TRAINING...had a gun and killed a drunk college kid because of a false report. NOTHING happened to the cop aside from being fired. Why in the hell is that acceptable?)

I agree with a lot of this. I fully support the demilitarization of local police forces. I support body cameras and police accountability. I support the prosecution of police officers who act inappropriately and/or criminally. What I reject is the media narrative that police, as an institution, are fundamentally evil and/or racist and/or trigger-happy.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Not only that... BUT THEY SHOT THE WRONG GUY.

Even if you think the Autistic guy had the weapon... you shoot the guy that's laying on the ground and complying with your commands instead?

Sounds almost like someone is a terrible shot, and had his finger on the trigger when he shouldn't have.

The other alternatives are all even worse to think about.

I can't come up with any other explanation that makes any sense other than this. Very glad it didn't end up a lot worse for either of those guys. Victim definitely deserves major compensation for this stupidity.

 

[pkt77242]

I'm done commenting on these things until we learn more information.

Just recently it came out that Philando Castile matched the description of an armed robbery suspect and that there was no broken taillight on his car, so his girlfriend's story about being pulled over for that reason was false. But has this been reported anywhere? Of course not.

It also came out that Diamond Reynolds had posted a video two days prior to the shooting that showed her and Mr. Castile getting high... while driving a vehicle... with a four year old girl in the back seat. But has this been reported anywhere? Of course not.

Now, none of this is to say that he deserved to be killed for any of this stuff. But it throws major doubt (as if we needed it) on how the media reports these stories.

First, we don't know what the cops told them when they pulled them over, It is very possible that they did not tell them they were being pulled over for being suspects in a robbery but instead told them a broken tailight. Also I haven't seen the Officer's attorney deny the broke taillight part, so I suspect that it was the reason given at the window for stopping them.

Two, if they really thought he was the robbery suspect why didn't they perform a "felony" or "high risk" traffic stop?

Lastly, have you seen the description that he matched?

Both suspects in the July 2 robbery were described as black men with shoulder-length or longer dreadlocks. The descriptions of the suspects included the items of clothing they each were wearing, but did not include estimated height, weight or ages.

Basically Philando matched the description because he was a black male with dreadlocks. That is like pulling me over because a blonde male committed a robbery. The description of the suspects is so vague, that many black men would "fit the description".

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I'm not saying they should have any power "without question." By all means, question away. My point is not "this officer was innocent," my point is "we still don't know anything for sure."


We don't know that for sure, either. The video excludes the shooting itself.

ETA: Wait, do you mean Castile, or this new video?


I agree with a lot of this. I fully support the demilitarization of local police forces. I support body cameras and police accountability. I support the prosecution of police officers who act inappropriately and/or criminally. What I reject is the media narrative that police, as an institution, are fundamentally evil and/or racist and/or trigger-happy.

Referring to the current video: A man on the ground with his hands up is in no way a threat. The autistic kid sitting cross-legged on the ground playing with a toy truck is not a threat.

I think it's better to reject the media instantly portraying/generalizing every story as a race-related issue. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't. But they choose to feed the beast in order to keep ratings high. That's my problem. You can't ignore that some officers are power hungry, racist, or trigger happy. You can't ignore that police brutality does occur. You can't ignore that targeted stops/arrests occur based on race. These things do happen and we need to discuss them honestly. But the media has gone batshit crazy with headlines that push more and more hate-mongering and fear-mongering onto the public who watch these shows/read their articles. It's completely irresponsible and poor journalism. They should be held accountable too.