Police State USA

[Irish Insanity]

Hey Mr offensive the criminals is that better for you just caught the library on fire. Smart move huh?

You come to protect your friend? Oh how sweet

Now you're just being an ass

 

[GoIrish41]

Hey Mr offensive the criminals is that better for you just caught the library on fire. Smart move huh?

Was not sure if you were talking to me because I am having difficulty navigating your broken English. It appears you kept referring to me by different names that lack wit or any identifying characteristics that would point to me. I finally broke your semantic code when you posted the note to pkt after he pointed out that language has punctuation for a reason and you offered up another of your witty comebacks. Anyway, I am not, have not, and will not condone the actions of the looters in Baltimore or anywhere else. Your suggestion that me being offended because you used racially charged language has anything to do with the fact that criminals tried to burn down a library is as idiotic and embarrassing as your attempts to explain that you didn't use an offensive word to describe black people. How about you just stop addressing me altogether so I do not have to respond to your baffoonish and antagonistic posts and you don't have to keep putting your ignorance on display. To fill your time you might read up on the racial discrimination that has been a sad part of this country's history from the beginning and that is at the root of all that is happening in Baltimore right now. Maybe you will learn why your original post on the topic was so offensive and the rest of us will not have to read your inadequate attempts at humor and grasp of the rules of the English language.

 

[Irish#1]

Uh...the reason he was fired and booked on murder charges is because there is VIDEO that clearly shows the cop was lying about the victim trying to steal his stun gun. If there were no video, the cop would have gotten away with it. And the suspicion is that there usually is no video and cops get away with this stuff all the time. Hell, there was video of the police murdering Eric Garner and they got away with that one.

You're missing the point. The video is evidence. You use it to support your case! What else were they supposed to do? Kill they cop as soon as they saw the video? The law took the appropriate action in that instance yet people aren't happy.

 

[Irish#1]

I don't think the protesting, which has clearly devolved into rioting, is about one incident but what the people feel is decades of systematic racism.

I think regardless of whether it's American ghettos or anywhere in the world, looting and such happens when situations get this tense and simply out of control. I think people do a disservice to the actual problem when they focus too much on the looting/burning. Yes, it's bad. Very bad.

Kinda reminds me of the French Revolution, when real protests about real injustices devolved into a beheading-filled chaos. You had guys staunchly supporting the revolutionaries and turning a blind eye to the chaos, Thomas Jefferson, and you had guys on the other side criticizing the situation on the ground and in turn refusing to really acknowledge the injustices, like Edmund Burke.

So it's somewhere in the middle, like always, the chaos in Baltimore is certainly regrettable but I also don't know what else you expect and I hope we don't use this as an excuse to discredit legitimate grievances (see: Sean Hannity, et al).

The problem isn't the real protesters. More power to them. It's the people who partake in the criminal activities under the guise of protesting that is the problem.

On a side note, I hope the phrase "people who partake in the criminal activities" was PC enough not to offend anyone.

 

[GoIrish41]

You're missing the point. The video is evidence. You use it to support your case! What else were they supposed to do? Kill they cop as soon as they saw the video? The law took the appropriate action in that instance yet people aren't happy.

They aren't happy because this stuff has gone on for so long that it has become commonplace. Short of a video being sent out on social media for the whole world to see the cop's story is taken as fact and the investigation is just shuffling some papers and announcing to the public that the cop did nothing wrong. This one was caught on camera. How many were not? The expediency of "justice" for the cop is not the same as for the family of the victim. They have to wait for a long process to play out. It may not be completely rational, but that is what they are angry about.

 

[wizards8507]

When criticizing someone's punctuation, it's best not to use a meme that also features incorrect punctuation.

"Helping your Uncle Jack, off his horse" is incorrect comma usage. A better example would be:

 

[Irish#1]

Baltimore has a long history of housing segregation policies that would certainly classify as "social injustice". Understanding the history of segregation in the city is critical in understanding the city's dynamics. The Wire does a phenomenal job highlighting some of these issues and showing how housing segregation policies have affected the African American population living in the city.

When I first met my girlfriend in 2002, I did some research on the city of Baltimore. She grew up in Baltimore county, but I would drive through the city to get to her house and we would often go into the city for baseball games, shopping, eating, etc. I also met some good friends in college who were African American and from the city, so I've been interested in Bmore since 2002. I ended up living in Baltimore county for a few years and my sister has lived in Baltimore city for about 5 years. I remember reading back in 2002 that Baltimore was one of the most segregated cities in the U.S. and some crazy number like 90% of the African Americans lived in neighborhoods with other AAs and the number was similar for the white population. I could be completely off with those numbers (or the time period) but I've spent a significant amount of time in the city and nothing I've seen would lead me to believe those numbers weren't accurate. The only "diverse" part of town is downtown. A few blocks one way and you're in "black Baltimore". A few blocks the other way and it's "white Baltimore", which is probably the part of the city you've read the "mini-revitalization" news about.

As Buster said, the African American population in Baltimore believes systematic racism has been prevalent for decades, and in many respects they are right. To me, it all starts with the various housing segregation policies "white Baltimore" implemented over the past 100 years. I'm not going to cite a bunch of different ones, but I'd encourage you to do a google search if you're interested.

Housing segregation was a byproduct of providing affordable housing for the poor which started in the 60's. It wasn't meant to segregate any race from anyone else, but that's what it basically did, which in turn created areas in cities that ended up being predominantly black.

 

[kmoose]

They aren't happy because this stuff has gone on for so long that it has become commonplace. Short f a video being sent out on social media for the whole world to see the cop's story is taken as fact and the investigation is just shuffling some papers and announcing to the public that the cop did nothing wrong. This one was caught on camera. How many were not? The expediency of "justice" for the cop is not the same as for the family of the victim. They have to wait for a long process to play out. It may not be completely rational, but that is what they are angry about.

I don't understand something here:

You want the police to give the people that they interact with the benefit of the doubt, that they are just normal law abiding citizens until they do something to take all doubt away. But you don't want to accord the police that same courtesy. You want to take the most extremely cynical view of the police, but you expect them to take the most extremely benign view of the public. You can't have it both ways.

For instance: you take up for the view that "thug" is a racially charged "code word", but I have not once seen you object to the assertion that the police are "murdering" young black men around the country.

I respect your idealism, and your desire for life to be as "fair" as possible. I want the same thing. But there has to be compromise; a middle ground where both sides make concessions for the greater good.

 

[irishff1014]

This is my big question.

Elijah Cummings a rep for Baltimore said the school system and leaders have failed these young individuals. Thats fine you are admitting that but this is fact that Baltimore city is a democratic as they come. Why don't you make changes with you votes get out there know the people to vote for. Ever since O'Malley was mayor that have stayed along the same political path. If the results are staying the same stand up about it.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Rearranging our views of segregation and comma usage. Little more. At this time. Punctuation, what a fickle bitch!

 

[goldandblue]

Baltimore has a long history of housing segregation policies that would certainly classify as "social injustice".

I need some clarification on this statement. How does the city of Baltimore control or promote segregation via housing policies?

 

[Irish#1]

They aren't happy because this stuff has gone on for so long that it has become commonplace. Short f a video being sent out on social media for the whole world to see the cop's story is taken as fact and the investigation is just shuffling some papers and announcing to the public that the cop did nothing wrong. This one was caught on camera. How many were not? The expediency of "justice" for the cop is not the same as for the family of the victim. They have to wait for a long process to play out. It may not be completely rational, but that is what they are angry about.

I get that there are plenty of bad cops getting away with bad behavior. That's still not the point. A mayor and police chief took appropriate action and people still weren't satisfied. If they didn't do anything about it, then I can see shouting to the rooftops. That cop was processed and booked, but I don't believe he hast been tried yet. It will go through the same long process as the others.

 

[irishff1014]

Was not sure if you were talking to me because I am having difficulty navigating your broken English. It appears you kept referring to me by different names that lack wit or any identifying characteristics that would point to me. I finally broke your semantic code when you posted the note to pkt after he pointed out that language has punctuation for a reason and you offered up another of your witty comebacks. Anyway, I am not, have not, and will not condone the actions of the looters in Baltimore or anywhere else. Your suggestion that me being offended because you used racially charged language has anything to do with the fact that criminals tried to burn down a library is as idiotic and embarrassing as your attempts to explain that you didn't use an offensive word to describe black people. How about you just stop addressing me altogether so I do not have to respond to your baffoonish and antagonistic posts and you don't have to keep putting your ignorance on display. To fill your time you might read up on the racial discrimination that has been a sad part of this country's history from the beginning and that is at the root of all that is happening in Baltimore right now. Maybe you will learn why your original post on the topic was so offensive and the rest of us will not have to read your inadequate attempts at humor and grasp of the rules of the English language.

I would say the same thing if an all white school lost a title game in a sport and had riots. It is complete nonsense to tear up others property just because you (not saying you personally) were upset that you lost. That's how wild animals act. I an far from a racist but I understand you misinterpreted my statement. There was nothing humorus about my comment. It's sad this day and age that people act like they did in the city.

 

[connor_in]

 

[GoIrish41]

I don't understand something here:

You want the police to give the people that they interact with the benefit of the doubt, that they are just normal law abiding citizens until they do something to take all doubt away. But you don't want to accord the police that same courtesy. You want to take the most extremely cynical view of the police, but you expect them to take the most extremely benign view of the public. You can't have it both ways.

For instance: you take up for the view that "thug" is a racially charged "code word", but I have not once seen you object to the assertion that the police are "murdering" young black men around the country.

I respect your idealism, and your desire for life to be as "fair" as possible. I want the same thing. But there has to be compromise; a middle ground where both sides make concessions for the greater good.

Where in my post did I talk about anything I want? I was attempting to explain what African Americans are angry about even when they see justice appears to be happening. I even suggested that this thinking may be irrational. I do indeed hold police to a higher standard because they freely choose to be police and are paid to serve (not harm) the community where they work. That is nothing like saying they do not deserve due process.

I also did not say thug was a racist word. In fact I said that describing looters as thugs was probably appropriate. The fact of the matter is that police are murdering people. We have all watched it happen on television. That cop in South Carolina, for example, straight up murdered that guy and tried to plant evidence to pin it on him. If not for the video he would still be a cop instead of an inmate.

I do want fairness and will not apologize for it. Compromise is a two-way street. Cops protecting their own is not the best we can do. They are not above the law and blacks are not inherently criminals. Go read through the posts in this thread and tell me I am being unreasonable. There are people cheering the fact that there is essentially martial law in Baltimore to control these "animals." How much of my principle should I compromise to meet people who make these absurd statements half way? I support police but expect them to serve to a certain standard that does not include harming people. Should I lower my expectations to allow for a certain amount of police violence? I do not think I should. They have to make concessions now as the problems we are talking about come from their ranks. People have conceded enough! What are they willing to offer?

 

[GoIrish41]

I would say the same thing if an all white school lost a title game in a sport and had riots. It is complete nonsense to tear up others property just because you (not saying you personally) were upset that you lost. That's how wild animals act. I an far from a racist but I understand you misinterpreted my statement. There was nothing humorus about my comment. It's sad this day and age that people act like they did in the city.

Did you call the cop in South Carolina an animal? How about the cops who shot the boy in Cleveland? Did you call the cops who choked a man to death in New York or broke a man's back in Baltimore animals? I did not see your colorful language in any of those instances even though those were arguably better examples of acting like animals. No, you reserved the description for a group of black people who are responding to those very things. I am sorry, but I just do not think your explanation is credible. But that is ok you can just simply stop trying to convince me otherwise and we never have to speak of it again.

It is sad what is happening in that city and cities across the country. Fanning the flames with hate speech ----- purposeful or not -- and not trying to understand the perspective of others will only help to ensure that it remains that way. We should just move past this aspect of the conversation and focus on what is actually going on I Baltimore and in other places where terrible treatment of people leads to violence and violent responses.

 

[Corry]

You gotta watch The Wire man haha

I'm on episode 4 of season 1. It's really good.

 

[NDohio]

In other news, Baltimore was fairly quiet last night...

Kudos to the community activists that stepped in and pushed for peace.

 

[kmoose]

Where in my post did I talk about anything I want? I was attempting to explain what African Americans are angry about even when they see justice appears to be happening. I even suggested that this thinking may be irrational. I do indeed hold police to a higher standard because they freely choose to be police and are paid to serve (not harm) the committee where they work. That is nothing like saying they do not deserve due process.

This is not the only thread where the topic of police behavior has come up.

I doubt Ferguson is a singlular exception in which this stuff happens. My hypothesis is that this type of behavior is prevelant in municipalities across the nation. I would like to see a top-to-bottom probe on EVERY police force in the country. I think we would be appauled at what we would learn.

I also did not say thug was a racist word. In fact I said that describing looters as thugs was probably appropriate.nbut the fact of the matter is that police are murdering people. We have all watched it happen on television. That cop in South Carolina, for example, straight up murdered that guy and tried to plant evidence to pin it on him. If not for the video he would still be a cop instead of an inmate.

Again, this is not the only thread that you have participated in. Go back to the "banned users" thread, and the conversation around NJNP being banned. You were all in that calling looters animals and thugs was just code for calling black people animals and thugs. You bemoaned the fact that NJNP was banned for being a racist, while people who called blacks animals and thugs were not banned for their racist statements.

I do want fairness and will not apologize for it. Compromise is a two-way street. Cops protecting their own is not the best we can do. They are not above the law and blacks are not inherently criminals. Go read through the posts in this thread and tell me I am being unreasonable. There are people cheering the fact that there is essentially martial law in Baltimore to control these "animals." How far much of my principle should I compromise to meet people who make these absurd statements half way? I support police but expect them to serve to a certain standard that does not include harming people. Should I lower my expectations to allow for a certain amount of police violence? I do not think I should. They have to make concessions now as the problems we are talking about come from their ranks. People have conceded enough! What are they willing to offer?

What if I made the following statement? "Compromise is a two way street. Burning down neighborhoods and housing for senior citizens is not the best that we can do. Angry people are not above the law, and cops are no inherently bad. These people are looting their own neighborhood stores. How far should I compromise my principles to meet people who don't seem to care one whit about their own economic plight, when they burn and loot the businesses that provide a living for themselves and their neighbors? Should I lower my expectations to allow for a certain amount of looting and arson? I don't think I should. They have to go home now as their continued criminal activity and violent confrontation only forces the police to look at them as a threat. Not one protester has been killed or seriously injured. The cops have proven enough. What is the community willing to offer?"

That doesn't sound very compromising or non-biased, does it? Don't apologize for wanting fairness....... just lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way. If you want fairness, then show it. And, yes, that goes for the cops, as well.

 

[dshans]

"Helping your Uncle Jack, off his horse" is incorrect comma usage.

I agree.

I, personally, feel the the so-called Oxford Comma is not as helpful as many feel it to be. It can be clumsy.

I find a more careful choice of words and phrasing is simpler and better.

Try this: "Helping your uncle Jack from his horse." is clearer and avoids an unintended double entendre.

As for the strippers? "We invited the strippers as well as JFK and Stalin."

 

[Redbar]

In a world that has become very polarized and cynical, where the echo chamber is the norm, it is refreshing to hear such an articulate and well reasoned individual who embodies some of the best qualities of us all, and in so being, unapologetically offers us a mirror to see ourselves. Thank you for your perspective, it inspires me to reflect on my own. GoIrish41 gets all the reps.

 

[GoIrish41]

I get that there are plenty of bad cops getting away with bad behavior. That's still not the point. A mayor and police chief took appropriate action and people still weren't satisfied. If they didn't do anything about it, then I can see shouting to the rooftops. That cop was processed and booked, but I don't believe he hast been tried yet. It will go through the same long process as the others.

I do not disagree with any of this. The difference is that cops often decide there is no need for a trial, or their compadres in the DA's office decide there will be no charges. They get expedient answers when their necks are on the line. Not usually true for victims of alleged police wrong- doing. I agree that the case is being handled properly in South Carolina and that expectations should be more realistic. In Baltimore though the controversy about when Freddy Gray was injured smells of police protecting their own. The video pretty clearly showed that he was injured before he was put into the van "and not strapped in", thereby causing the injuries. Sounds a little far fetched minutes earlier he was running and when they were putting him in the van it appeared that his legs were not working properly. If the police version of the story ends up being the official final word on this I feel the riots will erupt again. I hope they do not, but believe they will.

 

[IrishLax]

Woman got arrested for Facebook posts... seems... interesting? How can one tell what's serious vs sarcasm vs ...

She was way over the top though.

Police: woman makes threats on Facebook to kill cops - Atlanta News, Weather, Traffic, and Sports | FOX 5

 

[connor_in]

I agree.

I, personally, feel the the so-called Oxford Comma is not as helpful as many feel it to be. It can be clumsy.

I find a more careful choice of words and phrasing is simpler and better.

Try this: "Helping your uncle Jack from his horse." is clearer and avoids an unintended double entendre.

As for the strippers? "We invited the strippers as well as JFK and Stalin."

Isn't your Jack example incorrect? My understanding as to capitalization is along these lines:

"Helping your uncle, Jack, from his horse."
or
"Helping your Uncle Jack from his horse."

The second one, without the comma, makes uncle part of Jack's name, thus it is capitalized. Whereas in the first one, uncle is just a term and not part of the person's name, thus no capitalization.

Similar to...

I saw the president. His name is Barack Obama.
vs.
I saw President Barack Obama.

 

[Henges24]

Woman got arrested for Facebook posts... seems... interesting? How can one tell what's serious vs sarcasm vs ...

She was way over the top though.

Police: woman makes threats on Facebook to kill cops - Atlanta News, Weather, Traffic, and Sports | FOX 5

SMH...

 

[NDWorld247]

Housing segregation was a byproduct of providing affordable housing for the poor which started in the 60's. It wasn't meant to segregate any race from anyone else, but that's what it basically did, which in turn created areas in cities that ended up being predominantly black.

With all due respect, this bolded statement is completely false as it relates to Baltimore. Baltimore's history of housing segregation dates much earlier than the 1960's and was absolutely meant to divide white and black communities. Baltimore was the first city to segregate, by law, whites and black neighborhoods. This first happened in 1910 and continued in different forms through the 20th century. I'm sure "affordable housing for the poor" was the mantra in the 1960s, but the city was already divided and a lot of influential people made sure it stayed that way.

An excerpt from the book "A Chronicle of Twentieth Century Land Controls in Greater Baltimore":

On May 15, 1911, Baltimore Mayor J. Barry Mahool, who was known as an earnest advocate of good government, women's sufferage, and social justice, signed into law "[a]n ordinance for preserving peace, preventing conflict and ill feeling between the white and colored races in Baltimore city, and promoting the general welfare of the city by providing, so far as practicable, for the use of separate blocks by white and colored people for residences, churches and schools." 1 Baltimore's segregation law was the first such law to be aimed at blacks in the United States, but it was not the last. Various southern cities in Georgia, South Carolina, Virginia, North Carolina, and Kentucky enacted similar laws.

Here is an article that discusses the history of housing policy in Baltimore: https://indyreader.org/content/history-housing-policy-and-segregation-baltimore

I need some clarification on this statement. How does the city of Baltimore control or promote segregation via housing policies?

I was speaking to the history of Baltimore and how decades of systematic racism can help answer the OPs question about how black Baltimorians can feel social injustices have been done despite having the majority population (70%) in the city. How did the city control it in the past? Laws, housing ordinances, etc.

What does the city of Baltimore do today to control and promote housing segregation? I doubt they do anything as most of the laws and housing ordinances segregating blacks and whites have been eliminated. However, years of economic and social depression is not easily overcome. The problems facing many black communities in Baltimore today are the result of decisions made over the past 100 years.

I haven't said anything about Freddie Gray, protesting, rioting, etc. I'm simply referring to the historical divide, both physical and social, between white and black communities in Baltimore.

 

[GoIrish41]

This is not the only thread where the topic of police behavior has come up.






Again, this is not the only thread that you have participated in. Go back to the "banned users" thread, and the conversation around NJNP being banned. You were all in that calling looters animals and thugs was just code for calling black people animals and thugs. You bemoaned the fact that NJNP was banned for being a racist, while people who called blacks animals and thugs were not banned for their racist statements.



What if I made the following statement? "Compromise is a two way street. Burning down neighborhoods and housing for senior citizens is not the best that we can do. Angry people are not above the law, and cops are no inherently bad. These people are looting their own neighborhood stores. How far should I compromise my principles to meet people who don't seem to care one whit about their own economic plight, when they burn and loot the businesses that provide a living for themselves and their neighbors? Should I lower my expectations to allow for a certain amount of looting and arson? I don't think I should. They have to go home now as their continued criminal activity and violent confrontation only forces the police to look at them as a threat. Not one protester has been killed or seriously injured. The cops have proven enough. What is the community willing to offer?"

That doesn't sound very compromising or non-biased, does it? Don't apologize for wanting fairness....... just lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way. If you want fairness, then show it. And, yes, that goes for the cops, as well.

First, nothing you posted that I said previously contradicts what I said today. Calling for a probe of all police forces is no different than a safety stand down that you have no doubt experienced numerous times in service to your country. It is not a pointed accusation of any one police station in particular but an attempt to avoid future incidents in the event there are "faulty processes or equipment" in place currently.

I will go back and read what I wrote in the banned users thread in the context of the conversations that were happening there. But I do not recall saying that thug was a racist term ... however context is key and I will not respond directly until I retread what I said.

To the rest I stand by what I wrote and will refrain from responding to hypotheticals. If that statement is what you believe, state it as such and I will respond. The only death I have seen reported around this Baltimore incident remains Freddy Gray's in police custody. And while I certainly do not condone actions that led to property loss I will offer that life is more precious than property ... at least to me if not for some of the individuals with whom I have been discussing this topic.

Edit: I read through the banned users tread and did find one discussion I was involved in about NJNP. It was with lax who told me why he was banned, that people complained not only in political threads but primarily in football threads. Some weeks later I posted that following the justice report in ferguson that many of the things that he had said appeared to have merit according to the findings. No mention of the word "thug" even indirectly so not sure how me could conclude that I was all in the calling looters thugs was a racist code word. I suspect you similarly found no such post by me and that is why you did not quote it like the others.

 

[Bubbles]

Will Baltimore be better or worse after this? There are more people doing good than harm, but I fear the damage is done and public perception will take a heavy toll on the city. My family and I won't be going anywhere in Baltimore county any time soon.

 

[ginman]

I agree.

I, personally, feel the the so-called Oxford Comma is not as helpful as many feel it to be. It can be clumsy.

I find a more careful choice of words and phrasing is simpler and better.

Try this: "Helping your uncle Jack from his horse." is clearer and avoids an unintended double entendre.

As for the strippers? "We invited the strippers as well as JFK and Stalin."

I disagree! If my uncle wants to jack off his horse, who am I to say no? But, I do not want to assist the fellow.

 

[NDgradstudent]

So the O's game will be played tonight, but no fans are allowed to go! Land of the free, 2015...