Offensive Line Thread

[matman4593]

With the O-Line struggling like this, we need to start helping Hainsey (especially if hurt) with more TEs on his side of the line. With all the TE depth and talent on the roster, sounds like a no brainer. I know Kmet is hurt, but guys like Alize and Weishar can not only block in line, but also contribute to the passing game. Creates a lot of defensive personel problems too

 

[Sherm Sticky]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">4 issues from last week, mostly surrounding the OL. One, being overpowered. On this snap, Hainsey at RT is immediately pancaked backwards & his body takes out center Mustipher. <a href="https://t.co/1UiK6Ocnlf">pic.twitter.com/1UiK6Ocnlf</a></p>— 18 Stripes (@18stripes) <a href="https://twitter.com/18stripes/status/1040410383536869377?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 14, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Lots of scuttlebutt that Hainsey is a lot more injured than the staff is letting on which would make sense when you watch this against a MAC team. <a href="https://t.co/LjaH15UInN">https://t.co/LjaH15UInN</a></p>— 18 Stripes (@18stripes) <a href="https://twitter.com/18stripes/status/1040410905035636736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 14, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Number two, getting blown by. Again, Hainsey not looking great. Reaches and can't move his feet quickly enough. BSU sent another blitzer his way, too. They must've known to target him especially this early in the game. <a href="https://t.co/Vl2ZP6iyPu">pic.twitter.com/Vl2ZP6iyPu</a></p>— 18 Stripes (@18stripes) <a href="https://twitter.com/18stripes/status/1040411582252175360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 14, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Number three, poor communication. Kraemer doesn't come off help with Mustipher and is too late picking up the twisting blitzer. It affects the Wimbush throw on a crucial 3rd down. <a href="https://t.co/AKaNHe2T3J">pic.twitter.com/AKaNHe2T3J</a></p>— 18 Stripes (@18stripes) <a href="https://twitter.com/18stripes/status/1040412464859504641?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 14, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Number four, lack of trust. BSU rushes only 3 and after 1.5 quarters Wimbush doesn't trust his protection. He doesn't calmly slide to the left or right to give himself plenty of time. Instead, double clutches and hurries a dangerous throw on a failed 4th down. <a href="https://t.co/5LrYjUsSlv">pic.twitter.com/5LrYjUsSlv</a></p>— 18 Stripes (@18stripes) <a href="https://twitter.com/18stripes/status/1040413435501207555?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 14, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wimbush likely runs most of the time in this situation anyway. He also probably had an easy 1st down to Mack on the underneath tight end release. Bad OL play won't help Wumbush to make these 'easy' throws.</p>— 18 Stripes (@18stripes) <a href="https://twitter.com/18stripes/status/1040413813340884993?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 14, 2018</a></blockquote>
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On number two is that on Hainsey? I think that is on Kraemer. I think Hainsey was expecting Kraemer to block the DE and Hainsey would take the LB. At the snap Kraemer combo blocks the NT with Mustipher. Leaving Hainsey to say "oh sh*t" and as they are taught to block inside pressure over outside he tried to reach for the DE at the last moment. I could be completely wrong. Just my take.

 

[ACamp1900]

I could be completely wrong. Just my take.

'You could be completely wrong' was my take also....

 

[Sherm Sticky]

'You could be completely wrong' was my take also....

Or I could be 100% correct! Ha

 

[Rack Em]

I stopped, as it seemed to upset people but I re-watched the first 3 qtrs. it's not just Hainsey that was the issue. Bars looked completely lost at times. Which is the most concerning, IMO. Kraemer gave up a lot of ground and was slow on pulls. It was just a bizarre day.

With all that said, I'd expect it to get better. There seems to be a tremendous amount of pride in that room and I'd expect them to be much more focused going forward. This is where leadership needs to step up. Time for the big boys to play like it. The DL certainly is.

Anybody who got upset by that needs to change their maxi pad. That was good analysis and I’d prefer you offer that up more often. It was tough to tell live who on the O-Line was at fault on the different plays, but Kramer seemed to stick out to me a lot as being “slow” or plain whiffing on blocks.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

FWIW, if anyone wants to educate themselves on OL play. Bars completely gives a sack, at 2nd 13:04.

I’ll have to go and watch that as I thought Bars was the only lineman that had a good game. Shrug


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[Wild Bill]

I didn't see major issue aside from some of the outside speed rushers from guys who will play on Sundays in the Michigan game. I didn't watch the BSU game but with all the noise it does make me wonder if they just weren't focused or maybe even had a unit party the night before and were hungover or something (mostly joking about the party/hungover thing) or just had the classic letdown game. I'll wait until about the Stanford game to fully judge any given unit, OL included.

Winovich was all over the place. Wimbush's legs, quick throws and a couple of penalties seemed like the only thing they could do to slow him down.

 

[D-BOE34]

I think 2 things happened with BSU

1. Coaches thought it would be easier than it was
2. OL wasn't prepared

These aren't crazy thoughts. Almost everyone thinks the same thing. I honestly believe the entire game plan was set up like a scrimmage. Just get out with the W and move on. I knew the loss wouldn't hurt ND with voters but it definitely makes us nervous as fans. This week will say a lot for sure. I think we will roll by 24+ headed into the 4th and then it will look closer than it really was when game is over due to us playing safe and throwing in back ups verse Vandy.

 

[BobbyMac]

ND not mentioned in the Top 25 Offensive Lines for this year's Joe Moore Award.

...but App St, Army, Tulsa were.

Didn't know Aaron Taylor founded the award.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">RELEASE—The Joe Moore Award has announced the 2018 Midseason Honor Roll. Congratulations to the 14 deserving offensive line units. <a href="https://t.co/8D1SGivArJ">https://t.co/8D1SGivArJ</a></p>— The Joe Moore Award (@JoeMooreAward) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeMooreAward/status/1052244580190564354?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Irish YJ]

Not shocked that we're not mentioned. I've rewatched 3.5 games closely so far and it's nothing to be rewarded for. Some good quarters, but consistently overall is not pretty. Hoping we can get it together through the bye.

 

[Irishize]

Listened to Driskell on podcast. He didn’t mince words in how describing how much the OL has regressed. He was especially disappointed in the regression of 3-yr starter Mustipher and Kraemer/Hainsey who started since last season.

He mostly focused on their poor footwork in that they stop moving their feet leaving them w/ very little leverage. Said Mustipher is “catching” blocks vs firing off the ball like last season. He & Somogyi both noted that Bars was great about always hammering them about sticking to their mechanics but w/ him gone, it’s really devolved.

Hopefully Quinn & Long can work it out over the bye week but if teams w/ better DL (Northwestern, FSU & USC) exploit the OL and seal up any run threat than it’s not going to end well b/c this team needs to be able to run the ball to advance to the CFP.

 

[BobbyMac]

Not shocked that we're not mentioned. I've rewatched 3.5 games closely so far and it's nothing to be rewarded for. Some good quarters, but consistently overall is not pretty. Hoping we can get it together through the bye.

So you'd swap ND's unit straight up for App St, Army or Tulsa's units?

Or do you have a sliding scale for O-Line awards like you do AAC rankings?

 

[Irish YJ]

Listened to Driskell on podcast. He didn’t mince words in how describing how much the OL has regressed. He was especially disappointed in the regression of 3-yr starter Mustipher and Kraemer/Hainsey who started since last season.

He mostly focused on their poor footwork in that they stop moving their feet leaving them w/ very little leverage. Said Mustipher is “catching” blocks vs firing off the ball like last season. He & Somogyi both noted that Bars was great about always hammering them about sticking to their mechanics but w/ him gone, it’s really devolved.

Hopefully Quinn & Long can work it out over the bye week but if teams w/ better DL (Northwestern, FSU & USC) exploit the OL and seal up any run threat than it’s not going to end well b/c this team needs to be able to run the ball to advance to the CFP.

Giving Hainsey a bit of a pass (if he has been injured). Kraemer has looked awful at times, and Mustipher has looked pretty week. Liam is great some snaps, and very bad some times. Ruhland, not sure about either but can't tell if it's him, or just bad OL team chemistry.

Overall, I'm far from a pro-OL grader, but I have to think some of this is lack of gelling, some lack of leadership, and some lack of talent. I'm too scared to think it's lack of coaching. Mustipher is the eldest, so I'd expect more. Hainsey is the youngest, and I think most injured, so giving him the biggest pass.

Hope the two weeks does them good. OL coaching needs to step up no doubt.

 

[Irish YJ]

So you'd swap ND's unit straight up for App St, Army or Tulsa's units?

Or do you have a sliding scale for O-Line awards like you do AAC rankings?

wut? no i would not swap, nor did I mention swapping, nor did I stroke any others. i'm not gong to pretend like they are good though. every service, media outlet, etc. have all called them out.

not sure what you mean by AAC? If you're talking about my thoughts on UCF's ranking, there's plenty of actual worthy stats out there. there is however, not a lot of folks praising our OL,,, anyway, have that (UCF) debate in the thread where it resides. Don't mix it with our OL challenges.

 

[Crazy Balki]

It's not coaching, at least not position coaching. Long and Kelly need to know what they want out of the offense and establish it. If you want to be a run-oriented spread team, run the ball and don't do it when a team allows you to. You don't develop a great run game doing that.

I'm not saying "don't take what the defense gives you", but you have to stick to your identity.

The playcalling definitely did not do the OL any favors, especially with Book making all of those crucial errors early in the game. They seemed afraid to run it. Whether that was because of the injuries to the line or the lack of RB's in the stable, or wanting to get Book comfortable, I don't know, but they need to get it fixed.

Kraemer is definitely hurt, no question. He needs to get healthy, as does Hainsey. That right side is struggling mainly due to being limited in terms of mobility. Mustipher was solid, he just has never been good at lateral movements. Liam and Ruhland were also decent. Overall, it wasn't a good game from the OL, but I'm more concerned about the playcalling not wanting to establish the run early in the game. You're not going to build a quality run game without getting your line physical early on.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Listened to Driskell on podcast. He didn’t mince words in how describing how much the OL has regressed. He was especially disappointed in the regression of 3-yr starter Mustipher and Kraemer/Hainsey who started since last season.

He mostly focused on their poor footwork in that they stop moving their feet leaving them w/ very little leverage. Said Mustipher is “catching” blocks vs firing off the ball like last season. He & Somogyi both noted that Bars was great about always hammering them about sticking to their mechanics but w/ him gone, it’s really devolved.

Hopefully Quinn & Long can work it out over the bye week but if teams w/ better DL (Northwestern, FSU & USC) exploit the OL and seal up any run threat than it’s not going to end well b/c this team needs to be able to run the ball to advance to the CFP.

This was everyone's concern when we lost two top-10 picks on the OL and our OL coach.

Only Koon was certain we'd be #Quinning and I still hope he turns out to be right. Maybe the OL just need some rest and some more time with Jeff. Or maybe this is a growing year where the OL will get seasoned and make mistakes.

I wonder how our OL grades vs. past years? One would expect a significant dropoff from last year but what about the previous 4-5 years?

 

[Irish#1]

We've seen them be good and bad. With the exception of Mustipher, we basically have a new line. It takes a while for them to gel properly. The second half of the season is where we should start seeing consistency.

 

[Irish YJ]

Advanced stats dropped today on CFB OLs.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol

might do a comparison to EoY stats from last year. Quick look says we took major steps back in some areas, but improved on sack rate.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

We currently rank 100th in OLY. That's horrible. For comparison, Bama is 3rd and Clemson is 23rd. We're going to get embarrassed again in the post season (or drop a winnable game before then and miss out) if Quinn doesn't get his shit together in a hurry.

 

[NDMIA]

Advanced stats dropped today on CFB OLs.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol

might do a comparison to EoY stats from last year. Quick look says we took major steps back in some areas, but improved on sack rate.

Kentucky, Georgia, Alabama, and Wisconsin have some really strong numbers

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

We currently rank 100th in OLY. That's horrible. For comparison, Bama is 3rd and Clemson is 23rd. We're going to get embarrassed again in the post season (or drop a winnable game before then and miss out) if Quinn doesn't get his shit together in a hurry.

This is true, we will get smashed if this doesn't drastically improve. And that's only if we're lucky enough to win out.

 

[Irish YJ]

Going back 3 years to get a bigger sample. Showing ranks, not score.
Have not digested the meanings yet, just spitting out the numbers. Took a peak at our DL numbers too. Thought they would have been better, but I'm guessing they've improved over last year. Still new at all these stats, and learning...

Run-blocking stats
Line Yards per Carry: For 2018, we are experimenting with a new definition for college line yardage based on film study and generalization. Instead of the ALY figure FO used for the NFL, this one is tighter: the line gets credit for rushing yardage between 0-3 yards (instead of 0-4) and 50% credit for yards 4-8 (instead of 5-10). Anything over 8 yards is quantified as a highlight opportunity, and credit goes to the runner. As with the pro definition, lost yardage still counts for 125%. (Garbage time is filtered out for all line yardage averages.)
2018: 100
2017: 5
2016: 18

Standard Downs Line Yards per Carry: The raw, unadjusted per-carry line yardage for a team on standard downs (first down, second-and-7 or fewer, third-and-4 or fewer, fourth-and-4 or fewer).
2018: 91
2017: 11
2016: 102

Passing Downs Line Yards per Carry: The same unadjusted averages for rushing on passing downs.
2018: 103
2017: 20
2016: 8

Opportunity Rate: The percentage of carries (when four yards are available) that gain at least four yards, i.e. the percentage of carries in which the line does its job, so to speak.
2018: 112
2017: 11
2016: 46

Power Success Rate: This is the same as on the pro side -- percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown.
2018: 44
2017: 38
2016: 16

Stuff Rate: Same as STUFFED on the pro side -- percentage of carries by running backs that are stopped at or before the line of scrimmage.
2018: 106
2017: 22
2016: 30

Pass-blocking stats
Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for all non-garbage time pass attempts.
2018: 68
2017: 65
2016: 95

Standard Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for standard downs pass attempts.
2018: 98
2017: 58
2016: 120

Passing Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for passing downs pass attempts.
2018: 49
2017: 88
2016: 25

 

[Irish YJ]

Pretty big steps back in most categories except Power Success Rate (still not good), and Passing Downs Sack Rate. Guessing the improvement on Passing Downs Sack Rate might have something to do with Book getting the ball out quick on passing downs.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Guessing the improvement on Passing Downs Sack Rate might have something to do with Book getting the ball out quick on passing downs.

Bingo.

 

[Irish YJ]

Bingo.

Whiskey, I'm new to these, and know you have have been digging them for quite a while. If you get a chance please drop some knowledge/translation in terms of what these numbers and trends tell us.

 

[ACamp1900]

Whiskey, I'm new to these, and know you have have been digging them for quite a while. If you get a chance please drop some knowledge/translation in terms of what these numbers and trends tell us.

I mean he basically already did seven posts up....

 

[Irish YJ]

I mean he basically already did seven posts up....

I think that post was a little high level.... but yes, that particular stat is F'ing horrible. Looking for a little advanced splaining for the advanced stats...

 

[ACamp1900]

I think that post was a little high level.... but yes, that particular stat is F'ing horrible. Looking for a little advanced splaining for the advanced stats...

“Get embarrassed REALLY bad.....” work??

 

[T-Boone]

what balances this out is we have the most accurate QB in college football statistically so we are going to win everything.

 

[BeatSC]

7-0 balances it out