Offensive Line Thread

[Bogtrotter07]

The answer is going to be found in the NFL draft. It is impossible to compare different athletes at different schools with different offensive schemes (let alone defenses).

Draft results, followed by player development will be a good indicator. Right now HH is god with Zack Martin and Chris Watt.

 

[Old Man Mike]

.... not trying to stir the pot?

I'll take Harry Hiestand because he's our coach, recruits well, the players love him, and he's been working this year with a very young group [generally] with no upperclass leadership. Kelly's offense asks for pass-blocking feet-moving schemes primarily, not warthog ploughing actions. Our running game's effectiveness under a Kelly system will not optimize until the quarterback is both quick-read functional and run functional. [The quick-read-and-deliver system loosens linebackers who must support vs strikes in their over-the-middle regional responsibilities]. With Tommy we had one of those; with Everett we had neither.

We also do not have Ezechiel Elliot or Twelve Gauge. I noticed that both of them had a lot to do with the total yardage, and astoundingly good at getting yards even when the holes were minimal. {yes, there were some very good holes, but not all the yards came from that sort of situation by a long shot.}
I also noticed that when our "twelve gauge" {Zaire} was playing, we ran pretty well too.

 

[NDdomer2]

40 pts a game with a Qb who does neither.......

 

[Old Man Mike]

... great proof of the brilliance of Kelly's system. Golson obviously does poorly at quick reads across the middle AND appropriate running the ball. With such deficiencies, but also a huge quantity of talent, and a brilliant offensive system with a fantastic receiving corps, Golson managed a lot of stats surrounding erratic game-killer turnovers. The point of this thread is OLine competency not whether Everett has strengths and weaknesses.

 

[NDdomer2]

... great proof of the brilliance of Kelly's system. Golson obviously does poorly at quick reads across the middle AND appropriate running the ball. With such deficiencies, but also a huge quantity of talent, and a brilliant offensive system with a fantastic receiving corps, Golson managed a lot of stats surrounding erratic game-killer turnovers. The point of this thread is OLine competency not whether Everett has strengths and weaknesses.

I will agree with the system and his athletic ability. However, I believe you brought up the strengths and weaknesses of the QBs.

 

[Huntr]

Line will likely be better next year. They did a lot of shuffling around, plus the injuries, until they hit what should be a good combo. Glinch slots in at RT and brings an edge that makes up a bit for that new car smell. Really lookin forward to seeing these guys work.

Overall, nasty and experienced - just the way you want the OL.

 

[irishfan]

We've got to get the interior of this line figured out. Too much talent and depth not to be dominating. Need Elmer to take a big step forward, and may the best man win for the last 2 spots. I assume Martin will start and was just banged up this year, but he didn't impress. Not sure what to make of Hegarty.

 

[PANDFAN]

And Hiestand normally gets who he wants.

The No. 1 player in Ohio, Cincinnati (Ohio) Elder five-star Tommy Kraemer has been committed since the fall.

Two other Hiestand targets are coming in this weekend.

As Irish247 has reported numerous times in the past, Cleveland (Ohio) St. Ignatius Top50 offensive tackle Liam Eichenberg returns to South Bend on Friday with several family members. While Ohio State is the 247Sports Crystal Ball favorite, Irish247 insider Tom Loy and myself feel confident that Eichenberg will end up at ND. However, Eichenberg will visit Ohio State next weekend for the Buckeyes spring game before deciding, and dialogue with Buckeyes recruiter Tony Alford has picked up tremendously over the last few weeks.

Arriving Friday evening is another Top50 offensive tackle in Hartland (Wis.) Arrowhead’s Ben Bredeson. Notre Dame will look to make a move on Michigan and Wisconsin for Bredeson, who is also considering Ohio State and Stanford. Bredeson has been to Notre Dame in the past and knows he, Kraemer and Eichenberg would be the trifecta for Hiestand.

Kraemer is the nation’s No. 3 offensive tackle according to 247Sports, Eichenberg is five and Bredeson is No. 8. Kraemer is the No. 8 player in the country regardless of position, Eichenberg is No. 17 and Bredeson is No. 28.

Eichenberg plans to decide shortly after his Ohio State visit. Bredeson doesn’t really have a timetable.

That leaves the door open for another coveted offensive line target for Notre Dame in Orlando (Fla.) Bishop Moore Catholic Top247 offensive guard Parker Boudreaux. No question Hiestand and the Irish staff would be happy with any combination of the three names mentioned, and Boudreaux will take his visit to South Bend this summer.

A sniper on the recruiting trail, Hiestand has grown accustomed to landing his top offensive line targets. In 2015 he landed two Top100 guys in Tristen Hoge and Jerry Tillery along with Trevor Ruhland. Hiestand then tried to ineffectively hide Tillery from the defensive coaching staff and lost him to the defensive line. No worries there as in 2014 Hiestand brought in Quenton Nelson and Alex Bars, two very promising sophomores at this point in time along with two more four-stars Sam Mustipher and Eichenberg’s high school teammate Jimmy Byrne. That 2013 class was darn good too led by Steven Elmer, Mike McGlinchey, Hunter Bivin, John Montelus and Colin McGovern, all highly-recruited four-stars.

Looking ahead to 2017, Cincinnati (Ohio) St. Xavier has a promising prospect in Matt Bockhorst who returns to campus this weekend with his classmate and quarterback Sean Clifford.

Ben Bredeson, Liam Eichenberg Visiting Notre Dame

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

And Hiestand normally gets who he wants.

The No. 1 player in Ohio, Cincinnati (Ohio) Elder five-star Tommy Kraemer has been committed since the fall.

Two other Hiestand targets are coming in this weekend.

As Irish247 has reported numerous times in the past, Cleveland (Ohio) St. Ignatius Top50 offensive tackle Liam Eichenberg returns to South Bend on Friday with several family members. While Ohio State is the 247Sports Crystal Ball favorite, Irish247 insider Tom Loy and myself feel confident that Eichenberg will end up at ND. However, Eichenberg will visit Ohio State next weekend for the Buckeyes spring game before deciding, and dialogue with Buckeyes recruiter Tony Alford has picked up tremendously over the last few weeks.

Arriving Friday evening is another Top50 offensive tackle in Hartland (Wis.) Arrowhead’s Ben Bredeson. Notre Dame will look to make a move on Michigan and Wisconsin for Bredeson, who is also considering Ohio State and Stanford. Bredeson has been to Notre Dame in the past and knows he, Kraemer and Eichenberg would be the trifecta for Hiestand.

Kraemer is the nation’s No. 3 offensive tackle according to 247Sports, Eichenberg is five and Bredeson is No. 8. Kraemer is the No. 8 player in the country regardless of position, Eichenberg is No. 17 and Bredeson is No. 28.

Eichenberg plans to decide shortly after his Ohio State visit. Bredeson doesn’t really have a timetable.

That leaves the door open for another coveted offensive line target for Notre Dame in Orlando (Fla.) Bishop Moore Catholic Top247 offensive guard Parker Boudreaux. No question Hiestand and the Irish staff would be happy with any combination of the three names mentioned, and Boudreaux will take his visit to South Bend this summer.

A sniper on the recruiting trail, Hiestand has grown accustomed to landing his top offensive line targets. In 2015 he landed two Top100 guys in Tristen Hoge and Jerry Tillery along with Trevor Ruhland. Hiestand then tried to ineffectively hide Tillery from the defensive coaching staff and lost him to the defensive line. No worries there as in 2014 Hiestand brought in Quenton Nelson and Alex Bars, two very promising sophomores at this point in time along with two more four-stars Sam Mustipher and Eichenberg’s high school teammate Jimmy Byrne. That 2013 class was darn good too led by Steven Elmer, Mike McGlinchey, Hunter Bivin, John Montelus and Colin McGovern, all highly-recruited four-stars.

Looking ahead to 2017, Cincinnati (Ohio) St. Xavier has a promising prospect in Matt Bockhorst who returns to campus this weekend with his classmate and quarterback Sean Clifford.

Ben Bredeson, Liam Eichenberg Visiting Notre Dame

My goodness, pay this man! I hope he has a bonus structure built into his contract to reward him for outright domination on the recruiting trail. Sounds like we are setup incredibly well for OL again.

Does anyone remember the Willingham and Weis years?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Everybody talked about guys that left the ND staff and how good they were on the recruiting trail. I think Hiestand has been the best since Rob Ianello.

Also, I see Harry getting better, because I think that Mike Elston is that good of a recruiting coordinator, possibly the area our coaching staff has improved the most. If Harry locks more earlier, giving skilled players a look at front line dominance, recruiting can't help but get even better.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Everybody talked about guys that left on the recruiting trail. I think Hiestand has been the best since Rob Ianello.

Also, I see Harry getting better, because I think that Mike Elston is that good of a recruiting coordinator, possibly the area our coaching staff has improved the most. If Harry locks more earlier, giving skilled players a look at front line dominance, recruiting can't help but get even better.

Agreed. It seems like we've moved from 3/4 star blends to all 4 stars to 4/5 star blends on the OL. Who wouldn't want to play in that offense? You'll be given the necessary time to hit the jets, make a move or hit a hole.

Harry has been one of Kelly's best decisions since he joined us. And many of us were 'meh' about the hire. The Tennessee cohort was laughing at us, happy to get rid of him.

We're lucky Kelly didn't consult the message boards before the hire.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Agreed. It seems like we've moved from 3/4 star blends to all 4 stars to 4/5 star blends on the OL. Who wouldn't want to play in that offense? You'll be given the necessary time to hit the jets, make a move or hit a hole.

Harry has been one of Kelly's best decisions since he joined us. And many of us were 'meh' about the hire. The Tennessee cohort was laughing at us, happy to get rid of him.

We're lucky Kelly didn't consult the message boards before the hire.

Reps sir! In reverse order to your posting :

• We are lucky; and Kelly is good. Not sure which is better but I know which produces the best ND football results!
• It is always a good exercise for one's ego to get laughed at by a group where each member is missing a full set of teeth!
• Wonder how it will look in the run game with a guy with speed like CJ lining up behind these behemoths? (if they hit their stride.)

 

[Mavericknyc1980]

He has done a great job.

 

[BobbyMac]

Welcome to O-Line U

Welcome to O-Line U

The talking heads of college football haven't declared this yet and there will be plenty here who'll argue that their play on the field has yet to earn the title but when you add up what the Irish put into the League last year, what they could have put into the League this year, what will go into the League next year, what's currently on campus, what's coming to campus and what's committed in '16 & '17... It's official in my book, O-Line U resides in South Bend, IN.

If you don't agree, remember... If you have the winning Powerball #'s on a ticket but haven't turned it in, you aren't rich yet but you have the winner in your possession and it's just a matter of time before you are.

Sometime around 2020 we'll all look back at what was / is one of the greatest runs in position strength we've ever seen.

 

[Luckylucci]

Kraemer hash tagged #OlineU in one of his tweets to Liam. So somebody is thinking of it

 

[yankeeND]

We certainly have the pieces in place and a great springboard with Zack Martin already there. It's up to the kids to take HH's lead and run with it!

 

[BobbyMac]

We certainly have the pieces in place and a great springboard with Zack Martin already there. It's up to the kids to take HH's lead and run with it!

....or block for it. Let's let the lil guys in the backfield do their part!

.

 

[yankeeND]

....or block for it. Let's let the lil guys in the backfield do their part!

.

Indeed

 

[GoldenDomer]

Not until we commit to pounding the rock and being a team nobody wants to play because of our toughness in the trenches.

 

[connor_in]

But guys...we can't be #OlineU, we totally don't have the great OL coaches and players of pOSU per the pOSU forums

 

[BobbyMac]

Not until we commit to pounding the rock and being a team nobody wants to play because of our toughness in the trenches.

We'll see it this year. Malik is going to play a lot and he's gonna run a lot.

In my dreams, I see MZ under center, Prosise at RB and Luatua at FB in a double TE set With Will Fuller running a go route right at the FS... just prison-raping opposing defenses on the ground in the Thunder pkg.... then bring in Golson, 4 WR's and Folston and give them the Lightning pkg.

I'd be a cross between Lou Holtz and John Calipari as an OC. lol

.

 

[IrishInFl]

I couldn't watch the spring game. How was the line?

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Not to take away what our players have accomplished but I haven't exactly seen our O-line consistently bully other teams like we've seen Bama, Wisconsin, or Stanford do. We've recruited as well as anybody in the nation an hopefully that should start paying dividends, but any bluster is premature IMO.

 

[BobbyMac]

But guys...we can't be #OlineU, we totally don't have the great OL coaches and players of pOSU per the pOSU forums

Wait a minute! If Taylor Decker decommitted because Ronnie Stanley verballed to ND is it possible that Coach Warinner went to Columbus because he heard they were talking to SHH? ok, that's fiction...

Either way, OSU ended up with the short end of the stick. Fact.

.

 

[Irish Man3]

I wouldn't call us OLineU quite yet. We've brought in a ton of high end talent over the last few years and it's beginning to translate to the NFL.

Zack Martin had the best year of any OL in the class. Watt got a considerable amount of reps at guard in San Diego and played well. Next in line appears to be Ronnie Stanley who has set himself up to be a first round pick.

Outside of Stanley, I'm not sure anyone on the current line is better than a third round pick. Maybe McGlinchey if he continues to develope, just haven't seen enough of him. Bars and Nelson have an extremely high ceiling but have yet to take even a collegiate snap.

I think we have quite a ways to go before we become OLineU. The future looks extremely bright along the OL in South Bend. As long as the tackles emerge, the interior seems to be set up nicely. I do believe that Bars will move to tackle when Stanley leaves next year. His play at guard this year that his potential is so high that he can't be kept off the field.

Bars, Nelson, Hoge, Kramer, Eichenberg is the line in a few years that has the potential to put us over the top as OLineU..... IMO of course. In the mean time, putting guys like Martin, Elmer, and McGlinchey into the league successfully will help.

OLine recruiting is going about as well as it has gone in decades. I do think that ND adds another top 10 OL at his position in this class. Bredson, Boudreaux, Jordan.... we'll see.

 

[BobbyMac]

I wouldn't call us OLineU quite yet. We've brought in a ton of high end talent over the last few years and it's beginning to translate to the NFL.

Zack Martin had the best year of any OL in the class. Watt got a considerable amount of reps at guard in San Diego and played well. Next in line appears to be Ronnie Stanley who has set himself up to be a first round pick.

Outside of Stanley, I'm not sure anyone on the current line is better than a third round pick. Maybe McGlinchey if he continues to develope, just haven't seen enough of him. Bars and Nelson have an extremely high ceiling but have yet to take even a collegiate snap.

I think we have quite a ways to go before we become OLineU. The future looks extremely bright along the OL in South Bend. As long as the tackles emerge, the interior seems to be set up nicely. I do believe that Bars will move to tackle when Stanley leaves next year. His play at guard this year that his potential is so high that he can't be kept off the field.

Bars, Nelson, Hoge, Kramer, Eichenberg is the line in a few years that has the potential to put us over the top as OLineU..... IMO of course. In the mean time, putting guys like Martin, Elmer, and McGlinchey into the league successfully will help.

OLine recruiting is going about as well as it has gone in decades. I do think that ND adds another top 10 OL at his position in this class. Bredson, Boudreaux, Jordan.... we'll see.

Just "the class"? by those that rate NFL players, it was one of, if not the best of the last SIXTY SEVEN classes. Don't forget Chris Watt who was a 3rd rounder. He started in his rookie season and will be the Chargers starting center when this season opens.

Thanks for proving my point. All the correct #'s are already on the ticket. Just have to turn it in. SHH is the Brinks truck in this situation. He's going to guarantee the ticket is cashed.

.

 

[Irish Man3]

Just "the class"? by those that rate NFL players, it was one of, if not the best of the last SIXTY SEVEN classes. Don't forget Chris Watt who was a 3rd rounder. He started in his rookie season and will be the Chargers starting center when this season opens.

Thanks for proving my point. All the correct #'s are already on the ticket. Just have to turn it in. SHH is the Brinks truck in this situation. He's going to guarantee the ticket is cashed.

.

Regardless if it was the best rookie year in the entirety of professional football, it's still one player.

I mentioned Watt. You have to have more than numbers on the ticket to become the "U" of any position. It doesn't happen based on 4 and 5 star highschool projections. If that were the case, Alabama would be CFBU.

I'm just as stoked as the next guy with the way our offensive line recruiting has gone since hiring HH. Still feel like we should pump the brakes on OLineU. Sorry I'm not sold on OLineU based on a first round success and a third rounder that started based off injury. Solid foundation but a long way to go. I think maybe you're just caught up in the moment.

 

[ulukinatme]

Lets get another OL guy drafted highly in the next year (Stanley will certainly qualify next year), then I say let the ego flow. On the other hand, if our crop of TEs doesn't explode in the next year we may lose the "TE U" tag. The last few years have been somewhat lackluster.

 

[BobbyMac]

Regardless if it was the best rookie year in the entirety of professional football, it's still one player.

I mentioned Watt. You have to have more than numbers on the ticket to become the "U" of any position. It doesn't happen based on 4 and 5 star highschool projections. If that were the case, Alabama would be CFBU.

I'm just as stoked as the next guy with the way our offensive line recruiting has gone since hiring HH. Still feel like we should pump the brakes on OLineU. Sorry I'm not sold on OLineU based on a first round success and a third rounder that started based off injury. Solid foundation but a long way to go. I think maybe you're just caught up in the moment.

You mentioned Watt, that's all. You didn't mention he started or that he is the 1st string center for the Chargers as we speak.

Who put more players in the draft on O Line, at higher picks than the Irish last year? No one. Who had more starters than the Irish? No one.

Who's starting 5 would you trade for the Irish's starters?

Who has a better portfolio of current starters, depth chart, incoming freshman, committed class of '16 / '17 players, O Line coach?

Who has the luxury of letting a starter leave for his 5th year and possibly transferring into a program of FSU's caliber?

Who has the luxury of taking a top 10 US Army All American LT and moving him to defense?

Assign a value to those various aspects that make up the health of a program's O Line and tell me who rates better by your metrics? Stanford? Wisconsin? OSU? Clemson? Alabama?

I'll listen to anything well thought out.

Titles are earned and titles are lost, they are fluid. ND is currently TE U, that could change but Koyak's "under performance" or better yet "under utilization" could have cost them that title if it wasn't for them signing the best TE in years. When people say the original "Position" U it goes back to PSU and Linebacker U... I doubt you will find anyone but 40 something PSU grads calling them that anymore.

Is there anyone who would rather have another program's offensive line situation right now? CBK said he'd take his QB's over OSU's. The only thing that would stop me from saying I'd trade them immediately is Malik's Dad is a friend of mine. lol OSU has a better QB situation than we do and our's overall is great! It's ok to admit the obvious.

We got a glimpse against LSU. The cats out of the bag, CBK and SHH showed what the boys can do against as good as there is... and they will look silly if they don't ride that horse.

.

 

[Irish Man3]

Yea I would take both USC and Alabama across the offensive line.

One year of having two players drafted earns the OLineU title?

I did mention Watt and the only reason he started last year is because of an injury to San Diegos starting guard.

Lineman in the SEC and ACC are switched from offensive line to defensive line often.

You mention our starting 5.... Outside of Stanley we have a ton of question marks and you're taking that over every other collegiate offensive line?

We have two players that have never played a college snap battling out at left guard. We have an injury plagued center that has had a difficult time staying on the field. Elmer has been solid at guard but was moved to guard bc he has slow feet. We have a guy that has one total start at RT. Have you checked other lines around the country?