Now that Lynch is gone, time for some reflection

[Ndaccountant]

2012 was supposed to a building stone for a strong run in 2013.

After Darby, Greenberry, Shepard and now Lynch, the program has once again taken a step back.

This isn't a sky is falling post, but the reality of the situation is that ND is no closer to being elite than what they were when Weis left.

I still think BK can get the program there, but it ain't happening anytime soon.

 

[ChiRish]

2012 was supposed to a building stone for a strong run in 2013.

After Darby, Greenberry, Shepard and now Lynch, the program has once again taken a step back.

This isn't a sky is falling post, but the reality of the situation is that ND is no closer to being elite than what they were when Weis left.

I still think BK can get the program there, but it ain't happening anytime soon.

I agree except for the last part. If anything BK is renowned for getting things done on the field, even without top talent. There's still a lot of talent on the field.

The bigger problem here is college athletics. There's absolutely zero incentive for any of the top, elite prospects to go to a school like ND when the entire SEC doesn't care about academics. 5 Star prospects can load up at a school like South Carolina because really, they don't have to work at all. They can concentrate on football.

It takes special kids to come to a school like ND.

For me though, the biggest problem is that luring prospects like Tee, Darby, Greenberry, and now LYNCH made it cool again for top prospects to come to ND. Now every coach in America recruiting against ND is going to be reminding kids of all that has happened.

Makes me sick.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I agree except for the last part. If anything BK is renowned for getting things done on the field, even without top talent. There's still a lot of talent on the field.

The bigger problem here is college athletics. There's absolutely zero incentive for any of the top, elite prospects to go to a school like ND when the entire SEC doesn't care about academics. 5 Star prospects can load up at a school like South Carolina because really, they don't have to work at all. They can concentrate on football.

It takes special kids to come to a school like ND.

For me though, the biggest problem is that luring prospects like Tee, Darby, Greenberry, and now LYNCH made it cool again for top prospects to come to ND. Now every coach in America recruiting against ND is going to be reminding kids of all that has happened.

Makes me sick.

There is a difference between winning and being elite. BK won at cincy, but Cincy wasn't elite. I think BK can probably win 9 or 10 games a year in the next few years, but that is different than really being able to beat a Bama or LSU.

 

[CraigKrenzel]

Every program has defections. As someone said in another thread: Certainly isn't the first, certainly won't be the last.

Also, while the loss of Lynch is certainly a big, big blow to our front seven, I wouldn't count Tee, Greenberry and Darby as "taking a step back." I hate to count any chicken, whether one service rated them 5 stars or not, before they hatch.

We overlook lots of good news around here (Our tremendous haul on both the O and D lines the last few years, the return of Eifert and Teo, realizing we have found a batch of very good recruiters among our assistant coaches, Gunner Kiel maybe...) when we make "sky is falling" posts. Not that yours is.

I'm going to cry myself back to sleep, since apparently my class was cancelled. Tomorrow will be better.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Every program has defections. As someone said in another thread: Certainly isn't the first, certainly won't be the last.

Also, while the loss of Lynch is certainly a big, big blow to our front seven, I wouldn't count Tee, Greenberry and Darby as "taking a step back." I hate to count any chicken, whether one service rated them 5 stars or not, before they hatch.

We overlook lots of good news around here (Signing a 5-star QB and a very good class, the return of Eifert and Teo, realizing we have found a batch of very good recruiters among our assistant coaches) when we make "sky is falling" posts. Not that your's is.

I'm going to cry myself back to sleep, since apparently my class was cancelled. Tomorrow will be better.

Recuiting is about perception, and the loss of the guys listed above, whether they were ever on campus as a student or not, leaves a bad percetion.

 

[irish4ever]

2012 was supposed to a building stone for a strong run in 2013.

After Darby, Greenberry, Shepard and now Lynch, the program has once again taken a step back.

This isn't a sky is falling post, but the reality of the situation is that ND is no closer to being elite than what they were when Weis left.

I still think BK can get the program there, but it ain't happening anytime soon.

All this crap w/ this bunch just pizzes me off! Sorry, but these type of whinny-azz babies need to frickin' grow up! They act like a bunch of little kids which can't decide between a vanilla cone w/ sprinkles or a chocolate-vanilla swirl one.

 

[IrishInFl]

Ok, it look's like I need to tell the whole Lynch story from what Michael Langston told me confidentially. I'll post when I'm done with work.

 

[CraigKrenzel]

Recuiting is about perception, and the loss of the guys listed above, whether they were ever on campus as a student or not, leaves a bad percetion.

Definitely true. What what will coaches tell recruits that they haven't already been saying about South Bend Indiana? Unless a kid had some sort of reservations that this might confirm (certain TEs we're recruiting?), and I'm not sure that sorta kid wouldn't pull a Tee, Greenberry or Darby on signing day anyway.

Winning cures all ills. This hurts our ability to win. That's all we should really worry about, IMO. Hopefully the next man in can pick up the slack. Trust in Diaco...

 

[Emcee77]

This hurts. We have a lot of talent at DE, but no one who can do what Aaron can do. That quickness and strength is tough to find.

This doesn't change my view of the program's long-term prospects though. We just have to find the kids that want to be at ND. There are enough fish in the sea. BK said something in his presser about re-evaluating what sort of kids they go after. Find the Manti Teos and Jaylon Smiths; don't sweat the Aaron Lynchs and Deontay Greenberrys.

 

[GBdomer]

0 play makers, 0 CB's, QB situation isn't figured out yet. Recruits leaving. Missing out on Greenberry, Wright, Sheppard, Decker, Darby you guys can call it all you want staff lost out on those guys. I stood by Charlie Weis and think he got a raw deal. I was extremely high on Brian Kelly coming in. I am just wondering what he has done to impress you guys to show he can get the job done? I really hope the guy gets the job done cause i am sick of not winning but really what has he done so far? He needs to make a statement this year he is recruiting well but its not like he isn't doing stuff Charlie Weis didnt do. This is year three and I have yet to see us make the jump forward. So we are going to get this ship sailing in year four, five or six? This is Notre Dame and i know i will get bashed for this post because i know many of you stand behind Kelly but he just hasn't done anything for me. This Lynch thing really puts a black eye on this program right now. He is a amazing talent and he will be a huge loss. I stand behind Brian Kelly but i really do after this loss it is time for a reality check.

 

[greyhammer90]

0 play makers, 0 CB's, QB situation isn't figured out yet. Recruits leaving. Missing out on Greenberry, Wright, Sheppard, Decker, Darby you guys can call it all you want staff lost out on those guys. I stood by Charlie Weis and think he got a raw deal. I was extremely high on Brian Kelly coming in. I am just wondering what he has done to impress you guys to show he can get the job done? I really hope the guy gets the job done cause i am sick of not winning but really what has he done so far? He needs to make a statement this year he is recruiting well but its not like he isn't doing stuff Charlie Weis didnt do. This is year three and I have yet to see us make the jump forward. So we are going to get this ship sailing in year four, five or six? This is Notre Dame and i know i will get bashed for this post because i know many of you stand behind Kelly but he just hasn't done anything for me. This Lynch thing really puts a black eye on this program right now. He is a amazing talent and he will be a huge loss. I stand behind Brian Kelly but i really do after this loss it is time for a reality check.

One by one they fell into darkness.

 

[CraigKrenzel]

One by one they fell into darkness.

Darkest before the dawn? Right? I think that's a saying.

Crap.

 

[rtrn2glory]

0 play makers, 0 CB's, QB situation isn't figured out yet. Recruits leaving. Missing out on Greenberry, Wright, Sheppard, Decker, Darby you guys can call it all you want staff lost out on those guys. I stood by Charlie Weis and think he got a raw deal. I was extremely high on Brian Kelly coming in. I am just wondering what he has done to impress you guys to show he can get the job done? I really hope the guy gets the job done cause i am sick of not winning but really what has he done so far? He needs to make a statement this year he is recruiting well but its not like he isn't doing stuff Charlie Weis didnt do. This is year three and I have yet to see us make the jump forward. So we are going to get this ship sailing in year four, five or six? This is Notre Dame and i know i will get bashed for this post because i know many of you stand behind Kelly but he just hasn't done anything for me. This Lynch thing really puts a black eye on this program right now. He is a amazing talent and he will be a huge loss. I stand behind Brian Kelly but i really do after this loss it is time for a reality check.

no arguments from me...well said, my thoughts almost word for word, outside of backing Weis.

problem is i'm at the point right now that idk who is out there that can fix this program in this day and age.

 

[Ndaccountant]

no arguments from me...well said, my thoughts almost word for word, outside of backing Weis.

problem is i'm at the point right now that idk who is out there that can fix this program in this day and age.

ND doesn't pay enough and give enough flexibility to go after a Saban type of coach. They will almost have to get lucky.

 

[NDdomer2]

0 play makers, 0 CB's, QB situation isn't figured out yet. Recruits leaving. Missing out on Greenberry, Wright, Sheppard, Decker, Darby you guys can call it all you want staff lost out on those guys. I stood by Charlie Weis and think he got a raw deal. I was extremely high on Brian Kelly coming in. I am just wondering what he has done to impress you guys to show he can get the job done? I really hope the guy gets the job done cause i am sick of not winning but really what has he done so far? He needs to make a statement this year he is recruiting well but its not like he isn't doing stuff Charlie Weis didnt do. This is year three and I have yet to see us make the jump forward. So we are going to get this ship sailing in year four, five or six? This is Notre Dame and i know i will get bashed for this post because i know many of you stand behind Kelly but he just hasn't done anything for me. This Lynch thing really puts a black eye on this program right now. He is a amazing talent and he will be a huge loss. I stand behind Brian Kelly but i really do after this loss it is time for a reality check.

Thought you said you were going back to bed.

 

[GBdomer]

Thought you said you were going back to bed.

i am alive and well. truth hurts though.

 

[greyhammer90]

Gotta say I agree that I'm questioning if we will ever be elite with BK. However, just like Rocket wrote in his excellent series, I think that it's important that we give BK at least 5 years even if all he does is win 8 games every year. If we give him 5-7 years with him winning at least 8 games every year, the ND job will be much more appealing to a Saban type coach when the time comes. If BK fails in the same way that our past coaches did then ND will officially become the place that promising coaches come to die.

 

[GBdomer]

Gotta say I agree that I'm questioning if we will ever be elite with BK. However, just like Rocket wrote in his excellent series, I think that it's important that we give BK at least 5 years even if all he does is win 8 games every year. If we give him 5-7 years with him winning at least 8 games every year, the ND job will be much more appealing to a Saban type coach when the time comes. If BK fails in the same way that our past coaches did then ND will officially become the place that promising coaches come to die.

come on man. 5-7 years? Saban and Stoops won in there second. This is Notre Dame and you want to give him that long? Saban will be 67 than. We wont take a 67 year old.

 

[koonja]

If BK doesn't succeed at ND, it's hard not to blame the QB situation (whether that's bad QBs or his coaching them). I've always believed he should have stuck with Crist, and Crist would be his QB this year, hands down. Now BK's seat is warm, not hot, but he's probably going to start Rees. We know what that means, and next year when his seat is hot, he'll be starting Rees again. I think BK is a good coach, I think this QB situation is really ****ing him though.

 

[NDdomer2]

i am alive and well. truth hurts though.

I didn't say I disagreed, well with everything. Just thought you were going back to sleep. Charlie Weiss was a a pudwhack imo, and has proven such since leaving. To me the thing BK has done is brought attention to the AD department and the old farts that things do need to change to be successful in this day and age. Sometimes it is the individual that follows the innovator that gets the glory. I think we would all be ok with that, regardless of how bad we want to win NOW.

 

[woolybug25]

0 play makers, 0 CB's, QB situation isn't figured out yet. Recruits leaving. Missing out on Greenberry, Wright, Sheppard, Decker, Darby you guys can call it all you want staff lost out on those guys. I stood by Charlie Weis and think he got a raw deal. I was extremely high on Brian Kelly coming in. I am just wondering what he has done to impress you guys to show he can get the job done? I really hope the guy gets the job done cause i am sick of not winning but really what has he done so far? He needs to make a statement this year he is recruiting well but its not like he isn't doing stuff Charlie Weis didnt do. This is year three and I have yet to see us make the jump forward. So we are going to get this ship sailing in year four, five or six? This is Notre Dame and i know i will get bashed for this post because i know many of you stand behind Kelly but he just hasn't done anything for me. This Lynch thing really puts a black eye on this program right now. He is a amazing talent and he will be a huge loss. I stand behind Brian Kelly but i really do after this loss it is time for a reality check.

Everything is recruiting with you, dude. Kelly has won with a lot less talent than what we have at Notre Dame. Why don't we just see what he can do in year three with a talent ***** team before we call this season a failure. Its spring ball and you are acting like we are mid season looking at a 3-3 record. I think most people expect more from you than this type of "chicken little" type post. I'm not saying that you have to be a kool-aid drinking kelly-lover, but dang, you are acting like he has already failed this season. Why don't we let them play a game this season before claiming "This is year three and I have yet to see us make the jump forward".

Christ... some of you guys act like little girls every time something crappy happens. Go hug your girlfriend, go play some bball, go catch up on some work. There are more important things in life to worry about then whether a few 18 year old kids decide to play football elsewhere. If paying attention to ND football turns you into a crying sissy every time an 18 year old kid changes his mind, then maybe it's you that needs to take a look in the mirror, not them.

edit - why is the word: L A D E N edited? lol

 

[rtrn2glory]

I didn't say I disagreed, well with everything. Just thought you were going back to sleep. Charlie Weiss was a a pudwhack imo, and has proven such since leaving. To me the thing BK has done is brought attention to the AD department and the old farts that things do need to change to be successful in this day and age. Sometimes it is the individual that follows the innovator that gets the glory. I think we would all be ok with that, regardless of how bad we want to win NOW.

could you go into more detail?

 

[rtrn2glory]

Everything is recruiting with you, dude. Kelly has won with a lot less talent than what we have at Notre Dame. Why don't we just see what he can do in year three with a talent ***** team before we call this season a failure. Its spring ball and you are acting like we are mid season looking at a 3-3 record. I think most people expect more from you than this type of "chicken little" type post. I'm not saying that you have to be a kool-aid drinking kelly-lover, but dang, you are acting like he has already failed this season. Why don't we let them play a game this season before claiming "This is year three and I have yet to see us make the jump forward".

Christ... some of you guys act like little girls every time something crappy happens. Go hug your girlfriend, go play some bball, go catch up on some work. There are more important things in life to worry about then whether a few 18 year old kids decide to play football elsewhere. If paying attention to ND football turns you into a crying sissy every time an 18 year old kid changes his mind, then maybe it's you that needs to take a look in the mirror, not them.

edit - why is the word: L A D E N edited? lol

thanks mom

 

[NDdomer2]

could you go into more detail?

Night games, helmet changes, Floyd and Teo coming back. I know Kelly wasn't the driving force behind the off-site games but I think he has changed their direction in how they are marketing it.

 

[NDdomer2]

edit - why is the word: L A D E N edited? lol

My guess is that dumba$$ Bin L A D E N guy that was coming on here trolling so much.

 

[dre1919]

I think the Sheppard and Lynch issues are indicative of a much larger issue. I would be willing to bet that BK's personality and coaching style are what turn a lot of recruits off as much as homesickness and whatever else. The man is a good coach, he's proven that everywhere he's been. However, he's also a very temperamental one...apt to blow UP on someone on the sideline on national TV for small errors as much as big ones.

I think that BK will be able to turn the Irish into a respectable on-field product again, and certainly manage the program off field as well (we won't see him crashing any motorcycles anytime soon). But, I do not believe he will make them a serious national power in the mold of a Nick Saban, Bob Stoops, etc. He's just not that type of guy. Yes, he's a proven winner...and he's done very well at his coaching stops in the past.

But, I think if you look at coaches out there in the landscape of college football in terms of grades, he's a B+ type of guy. The heavyweights...Saban, Stoops, Meyer, etc...those are A+ coaching hires. Just being honest. No one nationally, when we hired BK, was like "Oh crap...watch out for the Irish!" It is what it is. Problem is, and I've always said this, because of the extra things associated with Notre Dame (academic standards, religious base, intense media pressure) I do not feel we can get an A+ guy anymore. It's too big of a career risk / pain in the ***. Urban proved that.

 

[greyhammer90]

come on man. 5-7 years? Saban and Stoops won in there second. This is Notre Dame and you want to give him that long? Saban will be 67 than. We wont take a 67 year old.

First of all we wont ever get Saban unless he is that desperate for a challenge. I'm talking about our Saban. Notice also I said "at least 8 wins" that means that yes, I would be ok with taking BK for 7 total years total if we got 4 total 8-win seasons (counting the last two), 1 or 2 9-win seasons and 1 or 2 10-win seasons. I know that this isn't a NC, but those records would put us pretty consistently in the top 25. I'm also aware that we should always strive for excellence, but my question is this: If BK fails, what rising coach in his right mind is going to take this job? BK was a golden boy, a proven winner, an unbelievable speaker with a politician-like grasp of the media, and a reputation for making something out of nothing. He took Cincinnati to a BCS game for god sakes.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I think the Sheppard and Lynch issues are indicative of a much larger issue. I would be willing to bet that BK's personality and coaching style are what turn a lot of recruits off as much as homesickness and whatever else. The man is a good coach, he's proven that everywhere he's been. However, he's also a very temperamental one...apt to blow UP on someone on the sideline on national TV for small errors as much as big ones.

I think that BK will be able to turn the Irish into a respectable on-field product again, and certainly manage the program off field as well (we won't see him crashing any motorcycles anytime soon). But, I do not believe he will make them a serious national power in the mold of a Nick Saban, Bob Stoops, etc. He's just not that type of guy. Yes, he's a proven winner...and he's done very well at his coaching stops in the past.

But, I think if you look at coaches out there in the landscape of college football in terms of grades, he's a B+ type of guy. The heavyweights...Saban, Stoops, Meyer, etc...those are A+ coaching hires. Just being honest. No one nationally, when we hired BK, was like "Oh crap...watch out for the Irish!" It is what it is. Problem is, and I've always said this, because of the extra things associated with Notre Dame (academic standards, religious base, intense media pressure) I do not feel we can get an A+ guy anymore. It's too big of a career risk / pain in the ***. Urban proved that.

This is ****ing stupid.

 

[koonja]

First of all we wont ever get Saban unless he is that desperate for a challenge. I'm talking about our Saban. Notice also I said "at least 8 wins" that means that yes, I would be ok with taking BK for 7 total years total if we got 4 total 8-win seasons (counting the last two), 1 or 2 9-win seasons and 1 or 2 10-win seasons. I know that this isn't a NC, but those records would put us pretty consistently in the top 25. I'm also aware that we should always strive for excellence, but my question is this: If BK fails, what rising coach in his right mind is going to take this job? BK was a golden boy, a proven winner, an unbelievable speaker with a politician-like grasp of the media, and a reputation for making something out of nothing. He took Cincinnati to a BCS game for god sakes.

I want BK to be our coach, but to play on your hypothetical, I'll take a guy who's name rhymes with Skid Holes.

Edit: I can't think of anything that rhymes with Skip Holtz.

 

[GBdomer]

Everything is recruiting with you, dude. Kelly has won with a lot less talent than what we have at Notre Dame. Why don't we just see what he can do in year three with a talent ***** team before we call this season a failure. Its spring ball and you are acting like we are mid season looking at a 3-3 record. I think most people expect more from you than this type of "chicken little" type post. I'm not saying that you have to be a kool-aid drinking kelly-lover, but dang, you are acting like he has already failed this season. Why don't we let them play a game this season before claiming "This is year three and I have yet to see us make the jump forward".

Christ... some of you guys act like little girls every time something crappy happens. Go hug your girlfriend, go play some bball, go catch up on some work. There are more important things in life to worry about then whether a few 18 year old kids decide to play football elsewhere. If paying attention to ND football turns you into a crying sissy every time an 18 year old kid changes his mind, then maybe it's you that needs to take a look in the mirror, not them.

edit - why is the word: L A D E N edited? lol

Wooly I see where you are coming from but i mean come on man whats improved so far? And I enjoy how you challenge posters. Not bashing Kelly at all I stand by him. And i dont want to known as a recruiting junkie i like to talk some football too. Maybe i should of kept my mouth shut on this topic. I am not crying about Aaron Lynch never once have i come on here to bash a kid who de committed. All i am saying is its time to get going and i am not sure if we are going right now.