[NFL] vBook: Colts vs Patriots (Deflategate)

Rhode Irish

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Now we have a report they cheated. Now comes the rationalization that it was okay.

I always said it was OK. Still don't see the big deal. Literally does not bother me one bit. I will say that it was dumb that Brady didn't just come clean in January and pay a 50k fine. Now he will likely be suspended for a game, for what amounts to a silly equipment violation because he lied and caused this idiotic investigation that was handled like a congressional inquiry.
 

irishfan

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In case anyone wants to know what a Pats-homer is reading :)

DeflateGate: Faulty Science, Reason, Work in the Wells Report - Pats Pulpit

Ted Wells hired a consulting group that used to be called The Failure Group, Inc. They are now called Exponent. And they have a track record of harmful disregard of the truth in favor of pursuing the bottom line. They have claimed in the past that smoking doesn't cause cancer, that Chevron dumping oil waste didn't cause cancer (while the largest shareholder of Chevron was on Exponent's board), and that asbestos doesn't cause mesothelioma or cancer.

They are generally the first group called when a mega-entity is in need of a science experiment. Back in 2010, the L.A. Times published an article that stated, "Exponent's research has come under fire from critics, including engineers, attorneys and academics who say the company tends to deliver to clients the reports they need to mount a public defense."

So when Exponent produces a statistical study with a weak backing in statistics, it only weakens the claims made in the report. The findings are exactly what the NFL needed if they wanted to further bury the Patriots, even though other smarter entities have found that there is scientific backing in the pressure of New England's footballs.

The entire report drips with the desire to capture the Patriots in the middle of wrong-doing, even though there isn't an explicit example of Tom Brady being involved. All Wells had to do was prove that it was "more probable than not" that the Patriots were in violation- and when he gets to create his own evidence for submission, then that conclusion is all too easy to come by.

There's some other good stuff in there. The texting between equipment guys stemmed from the refs pumping the balls to 16 PSI in week 6 and Brady bitching them out on the sideline. The whole report reaches in assuming that the balls were at 12.5 pre-game for the AFC Champ game, when it's been widely thought that refs didn't measure the footballs (there are no recordings). It also relies on their measuring of 4 Colts footballs, yet the report shows the refs messed up measuring/recording one of the footballs.

I'm just interested to see what happens here going forward. There are pretty blatantly enough holes in this report where the Patriots can fight back pretty hard if they try and penalize the team or the Golden Boy. Goodell is in a pretty tight spot here, so I'm fascinated to see what he does.
 

palinurus

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I pretty much always looked at this thing and thought, "ah, so what?"

But it's pretty clear from the texts that Brady not only knew, but was behind it.

This is part of an attitude and pattern with the Pats. The film scandal, testifying for murderers, the essentially dishonest injury reports, and now this. All Super Bowl wins under Belichick are suspect.

Face it: the Pats are just a cheating franchise, with a dishonest coach and fronted for by a dishonest owner who condones it all. That's all crystal clear. The media needs to stop flacking for Kraft and acting like he's just somebody's grandpa.
 

wizards8507

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The texting between equipment guys stemmed from the refs pumping the balls to 16 PSI in week 6 and Brady bitching them out on the sideline.
Yeah but that doesn't fit The Narrative (TM), so we're not going to talk about it.

ETA: I keep coming back to Aaron Rodgers and his admission that he intentionally tries to over-inflate his footballs to see if the officials call him on it. It tells us three important things.

1. Under-inflated footballs are not necessarily a competitive advantage.
2. Messing with the football pressure is not unique to the Patriots.
3. Officials generally do a piss-poor job at checking to make sure balls are in compliance.
 
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ACamp1900

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Face it: the Pats are just a cheating franchise, with a dishonest coach and fronted for by a dishonest owner who condones it all. That's all crystal clear. The media needs to stop flacking for Kraft and acting like he's just somebody's grandpa.

I'm with this guy,...
 

IrishLax

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Yeah but that doesn't fit The Narrative (TM), so we're not going to talk about it.

ETA: I keep coming back to Aaron Rodgers and his admission that he intentionally tries to over-inflate his footballs to see if the officials call him on it. It tells us three important things.

1. Under-inflated footballs are not necessarily a competitive advantage.
2. Messing with the football pressure is not unique to the Patriots.
3. Officials generally do a piss-poor job at checking to make sure balls are in compliance.

1. Yes, it is, if that's what the QB prefers and it's below allowable limits. That's absolutely inarguable. It's like saying "well, some pitchers don't like throwing with pine tar so it's not necessarily a competitive advantage when Michael Pineda did it." That's just out-of-this-world dumb.
2. So?
3. So?

You can try to obfuscate the point as much as you want, it's still there. 1. It's against the rules to deflate the balls below allowable levels. 2. There is no other plausible explanation for the texts + actions other than Brady asked them to deflate the balls. 3. Brady lied about knowing the people involved and refused to cooperate in the investigation, which is an obvious cover up attempt.

The only people who refuse to see the truth here are (some) Patriot fans.
 

IrishJayhawk

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1. Yes, it is, if that's what the QB prefers and it's below allowable limits. That's absolutely inarguable. It's like saying "well, some pitchers don't like throwing with pine tar so it's not necessarily a competitive advantage when Michael Pineda did it." That's just out-of-this-world dumb.
2. So?
3. So?

You can try to obfuscate the point as much as you want, it's still there. 1. It's against the rules to deflate the balls below allowable levels. 2. There is no other plausible explanation for the texts + actions other than Brady asked them to deflate the balls. 3. Brady lied about knowing the people involved and refused to cooperate in the investigation, which is an obvious cover up attempt.

The only people who refuse to see the truth here are (some) Patriot fans.

I'm not a Pats fan. I think this deserves a slap on the wrist. Then we should all move on. From what I can tell, it's pretty much status quo in the NFL for players to mess with the footballs as much as they can. The only reason this is a big story is that it's Tom Brady.

As others have pointed out...players like Jerry Rice used stick em on his gloves, others have done the same, players have used cooking spray to avoid getting grabbed, QBs have scuffed the ball to try to get a better grip...all illegal, but none of it particularly unique. But I guess the NFL should fix the procedures if they think it's a big deal.

This isn't exactly A-Rod and PEDs.
 

IrishLax

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I always said it was OK. Still don't see the big deal. Literally does not bother me one bit. I will say that it was dumb that Brady didn't just come clean in January and pay a 50k fine. Now he will likely be suspended for a game, for what amounts to a silly equipment violation because he lied and caused this idiotic investigation that was handled like a congressional inquiry.

This is pretty much my feelings on it. If Brady had just come out and said "yeah, I had problems with the balls being too inflated, so I asked guys to deflate the balls. I wasn't trying to necessarily cheat but in their deflation of the balls they ended up below the allowable limit and I'm sorry that happened." ... he probably would've paid a fine and moved on. Not a big deal.

Instead, he lied about his relationship with those involved. Flat out lied to investigators. And then he refused to cooperate turning over his phone or other evidence. Anyone who acts above the rules like that and is a liar deserves some punishment. He brought this on himself.
 

wizards8507

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1. Yes, it is, if that's what the QB prefers and it's below allowable limits. That's absolutely inarguable. It's like saying "well, some pitchers don't like throwing with pine tar so it's not necessarily a competitive advantage when Michael Pineda did it." That's just out-of-this-world dumb.
2. So?
3. So?

You can try to obfuscate the point as much as you want, it's still there. 1. It's against the rules to deflate the balls below allowable levels. 2. There is no other plausible explanation for the texts + actions other than Brady asked them to deflate the balls. 3. Brady lied about knowing the people involved and refused to cooperate in the investigation, which is an obvious cover up attempt.

The only people who refuse to see the truth here are (some) Patriot fans.
I'm not arguing with "the truth." I'm saying "who cares?" Dish out whatever penalty you want, that's on the Patriots for getting caught. But this notion of "tarnished legacy" and all that is nonsense.
 

IrishLax

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I'm not a Pats fan. I think this deserves a slap on the wrist. Then we should all move on. From what I can tell, it's pretty much status quo in the NFL for players to mess with the footballs as much as they can. The only reason this is a big story is that it's Tom Brady.

As others have pointed out...players like Jerry Rice used stick em on his gloves, others have done the same, players have used cooking spray to avoid getting grabbed, QBs have scuffed the ball to try to get a better grip...all illegal, but none of it particularly unique. But I guess the NFL should fix the procedures if they think it's a big deal.

This isn't exactly A-Rod and PEDs.

Right, and people have used pine tar or other substances forever in the MLB. And when you get caught it's punished, but not a big deal. That's how this should've been handled.

Lying to investigators > then the actual offense, IMO. Should've come clean, and given the fact that he didn't he deserves significant punishment. Probably a game suspension, whereas if he cam clean it would've been a small fine.
 

wizards8507

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Right, and people have used pine tar or other substances forever in the MLB. And when you get caught it's punished, but not a big deal. That's how this should've been handled.

Lying to investigators > then the actual offense, IMO. Should've come clean, and given the fact that he didn't he deserves significant punishment. Probably a game suspension, whereas if he cam clean it would've been a small fine.
Would you like Aaron Rodgers to be fined?
 

irishfan

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en data-scribe-reduced-action-queue="><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tom Brady's agent, Don Yee, releases a statement on the Wells Report. <a href="http://t.co/0eYWsu5aVB">pic.twitter.com/0eYWsu5aVB</a></p>— SportsCenter (@SportsCenter) <a href="https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/596309826038280192">May 7, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The "more probable than not" phrasing made me smile.
 

IrishLion

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Do these people just think that everyone is stupid?

The balls were nearly all under the limit. Two guys texted each other about doing in. Context clues tell you that Brady knew about it and wanted it done.

And yet they're going to try and pin the NFL and the Colts for running a "sting"?

It's always somebody else's fault lol.
 

ND NYC

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like Polian said "when they say more probable than not" it is NFLspeak for "he/they most certainly did..."

I feel bad for pats fans and also the players because I think it is entirely possible they could have won those superbowls without resorting to spying, cheating and breaking the rules of the nfl...but we will never know. also makes one wonder what else they have done in House Gillette that we don't even know about.
 
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yankeeND

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I can't argue with anything you said regarding this issue and am pretty much in the same boat. If he truly had anything to do with it, just own up and admit to it. It is always better to be honest IMO. It doesn't change anything from me or from the haters. I'm always gonna be a fan and people who aren't are always gonna whine about everything that they do. Maybe even rightfully so, but as a fan I have to defend them just like I always do with ND lol.
 

Circa

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Do these people just think that everyone is stupid?

The balls were nearly all under the limit. Two guys texted each other about doing in. Context clues tell you that Brady knew about it and wanted it done.

And yet they're going to try and pin the NFL and the Colts for running a "sting"?

It's always somebody else's fault lol.

No. They can't understand how something that's been done countless times on 99% of the teams in The 'NFL' seems so trivial now. They pissed up the wrong tree.
 

irishfan

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Do these people just think that everyone is stupid?

The balls were nearly all under the limit. Two guys texted each other about doing in. Context clues tell you that Brady knew about it and wanted it done.

And yet they're going to try and pin the NFL and the Colts for running a "sting"?

It's always somebody else's fault lol.

You can read the context any way you want. The first texts come from the equipment guys being bitched out because the balls were at 16 PSI in week 6. This is confirmed in texts when one of the equipment guys texts his fiance saying that Brady was right that the balls were over-inflated and that they were supposed to be at 13. Not some number under 12.5, but at 13. With the amount of sh!t that the Pats equipment guys were talking, it's hard for me to believe these guys were buddy-buddy with Brady. One of them in particular makes jokes about inflating the balls even above 16 PSI to fuck with Brady even more.

Everyone (not attacking you--just opinions I've read online) with their fake-fumble stats want to believe that this great conspiracy has been going on for years. This elaborate and detailed Patriots scheme led to them having balls that were 3.5 OVER the PSI limit in week 6 this season....this pretty clearly wasn't some sort of master cheating scheme. The texts from there mention Brady wanting the balls deflated lower from that level, there is literally no mention of them being below 12.5 anywhere. There's actually a part in the report (which I've attached at the bottom) that says the opposite and that Brady wanted them at 12.5 if possible, but it wasn't headline-worthy so no media has picked up on it.

The NFL's whole argument hinges on the idea the footballs were handed into the refs at 12.5 pre-game. There is no proof this happened, and considering how lax refs seems to be in regards to PSI in general, it's fairly safe to assume that they didn't gauge the balls pre-game as there are no recordings. There is nothing illegal about handing in balls below the requirements pre-game if the refs don't catch it. This is exactly what Rodgers said he does with over-inflating. It's kin to lining up 1 foot offsides and getting blamed because the refs won't call it.

It's amusing to me you have quarterbacks openly talking about how they like the balls above or below the PSI and no one cares. You have videos of the Panthers and Vikings heating up footballs on the sideline this year....and no one cares. Now, there is very circumstantial evidence that the Patriots might have deflated the footballs, and it's time to throw the book at them since no one (besides the Giants) seems to be able to beat this team with any regularity the last 15 seasons.

http://i.imgur.com/s7yn7DR.jpg
 
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FightingIrishLover7

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You can read the context any way you want. The first texts come from the equipment guys being bitched out because the balls were at 16 PSI in week 6. This is confirmed in texts when one of the equipment guys texts his fiance saying that Brady was right that the balls were over-inflated and that they were supposed to be at 13. Not some number under 12.5, but at 13. With the amount of sh!t that the Pats equipment guys were talking, it's hard for me to believe these guys were buddy-buddy with Brady. One of them in particular makes jokes about inflating the balls even above 16 PSI to fuck with Brady even more.

Everyone (not attacking you--just opinions I've read online) with their fake-fumble stats want to believe that this great conspiracy has been going on for years. This elaborate and detailed Patriots scheme led to them having balls that were 3.5 OVER the PSI limit in week 6 this season....this pretty clearly wasn't some sort of master cheating scheme. The texts from there mention Brady wanting the balls deflated lower from that level, there is literally no mention of them being below 12.5 anywhere. There's actually a part in the report (which I've attached at the bottom) that says the opposite and that Brady wanted them at 12.5 if possible, but it wasn't headline-worthy so no media has picked up on it.

The NFL's whole argument hinges on the idea the footballs were handed into the refs at 12.5 pre-game. There is no proof this happened, and considering how lax refs seems to be in regards to PSI in general, it's fairly safe to assume that they didn't gauge the balls pre-game as there are no recordings. There is nothing illegal about handing in balls below the requirements pre-game if the refs don't catch it. This is exactly what Rodgers said he does with over-inflating. It's kin to lining up 1 foot offsides and getting blamed because the refs won't call it.

It's amusing to me you have quarterbacks openly talking about how they like the balls above or below the PSI and no one cares. You have videos of the Panthers and Vikings heating up footballs on the sideline this year....and no one cares. Now, there is very circumstantial evidence that the Patriots might have deflated the footballs, and it's time to throw the book at them since no one (besides the Giants) seems to be able to beat this team with any regularity the last 15 seasons.

http://i.imgur.com/s7yn7DR.jpg
Are you're foolish, or perhaps just playing naive?

Either way, if Brady were innocent, he wouldn't lie about knowing these staffers and he would certainly hand his phone over to the investigators.

If you want to prove your innocence, be transparent and honest.

Brady has done neither.
 

NDRock

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Are you're foolish, or perhaps just playing naive?

Either way, if Brady were innocent, he wouldn't lie about knowing these staffers and he would certainly hand his phone over to the investigators.

If you want to prove your innocence, be transparent and honest.

Brady has done neither.

Can't blame him at all for not handing over his phone. I'm sure he has a ton of personal things on there that he didn't want to be leaked (and with the way these things go, they would get leaked). Much to do about nothing but it gives the Pats haters something to hang their hat on.
 

Irish#1

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I always said it was OK. Still don't see the big deal. Literally does not bother me one bit. I will say that it was dumb that Brady didn't just come clean in January and pay a 50k fine. Now he will likely be suspended for a game, for what amounts to a silly equipment violation because he lied and caused this idiotic investigation that was handled like a congressional inquiry.

Brady preferring to doctor the football is similar to a pitcher messing with the baseball. He's trying to get that slight advantage, the same as Jerry Rice admitting to using stick 'em.

Looks like BB gets a pass on this one. I don't see Brady getting suspended for half a season like a lot of insiders think. I see 3-4 games max.
 

Irish YJ

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Brady preferring to doctor the football is similar to a pitcher messing with the baseball. He's trying to get that slight advantage, the same as Jerry Rice admitting to using stick 'em.

Looks like BB gets a pass on this one. I don't see Brady getting suspended for half a season like a lot of insiders think. I see 3-4 games max.

2 games I'm betting.
doubt that BB didn't know..
 

irishfan

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Case can be made for Tom Brady’s defense - Sports - The Boston Globe

Good article. Guy writes for the Globe, but gets a lot of crap for being anti-Pats at times. He came from being a Dolphins beat-writer and is from out of the region originally. He was also mentioned by Kravitz in Indy as being one of the only professional Boston media members. Just saying so no one says this is some Boston fanboy writing.

Let’s start off by saying I accept the premise of the Wells Report, that Tom Brady at the very least was “generally aware of the inappropriate activities” of assistant equipment manager John Jastremski and part-time locker room attendant Jim McNally in regards to deflating the Patriots’ footballs before the AFC Championship game.

Brady’s defiance during the investigation, and his sudden amnesia about league rules and his friendship with McNally, don’t help his cause. But the fact that many former NFL quarterbacks don’t buy Brady’s explanation is the most significant to me.


“I can’t imagine, for the life of me, that anyone in that organization that wanted to keep their job would tinker with the football without Tom Brady knowing about it,” former MVP quarterback Rich Gannon said in a conversation with me Wednesday on SiriusXM NFL. “That’s like me going into Rory McIlroy’s bag and adjusting his driver from a 9.5 degree loft to a 9 without him knowing. That’s insane.”

However, a fairly compelling case can be made in Brady’s defense that he really didn’t have anything to do with deflating the footballs. A lot of the evidence pointing toward Brady’s knowledge can be explained away rather rationally.

“The investigators’ assumptions and inferences are easily debunked or subject to multiple interpretations,” Brady’s agent, Don Yee, said in a statement Thursday. “Much of the report’s vulnerabilities are buried in the footnotes, which is a common legal writing tactic. It is a sad day for the league as it has abdicated the resolution of football-specific issues to people who don’t understand the context or culture of the sport.”

It would take a leap of faith to believe all of the coincidences in sum, but perhaps Brady is simply a victim of circumstance, or McNally was a rogue employee who took things too far.

For instance . . .

■ Brady never explicitly said anything about deflating the footballs under 12.5 PSI.

The report notes that McNally was very specific with referee Walt Anderson before the AFC Championship game that Brady prefers his footballs at 12.5 PSI, the lowest allowable amount.

And Brady has been very, very particular about the way he likes his footballs throughout his career.

In 2006, he and Peyton Manning were the catalysts for a rule change that allowed NFL teams to provide their own footballs for games. And Brady apparently was livid about the condition of the footballs in the Patriots’ win over the Jets last October, complaining that they felt like “bricks,” according to the report. Jastremski said he tested some of the footballs the next day, and some of them supposedly measured close to 16 PSI (although it is a bit hard to believe that the balls registered that high nearly 12 hours after the game).

But there’s not one iota of evidence in the report supporting the notion that Brady wanted his footballs below the legal limit. It’s certainly possible that McNally knew Brady’s preference for a softer football and simply let his imagination run wild, taking it upon himself to take air out of the football and curry favor from his quarterback.

Did Brady order the Code Red? Wells certainly didn’t find that out.

■ Brady giving McNally gifts doesn’t really prove much.

Wells noted that McNally received two autographed footballs and an autograph on his game-worn jersey in the week leading up to the AFC Championship game, and that McNally and Jastremski texted frequently about obtaining shoes, money, and autographs from Brady.

This could be viewed as payment for doing the dirty work of deflating footballs. Or, it could just be Brady being generous to a low-paid worker.

It is common in all professional sports for the athletes to pay clubhouse attendants, ball boys, equipment managers, and other low-wage earners with cash, gifts, autographs, and favors.

Brady’s generosity is well known. At least once a year, Patriots players find a new pair of Uggs boots or slippers at their lockers, courtesy of Brady. Brady also happily handed over his Super Bowl MVP truck to Malcolm Butler, who made league minimum last year.

And that’s just with the players. Brady has probably given out thousands of autographs, jerseys, footballs, and the like over his 15-year career.

■ The high frequency of texts to Jastremski don’t prove much, either.

Brady hadn’t called or texted Jastremski much over the previous six months, but then communicated with him multiple times a day in the three days following the Colts game. Wells took the texts to mean that Brady was conspiring with Jastremski to get their stories straight and ease Jastremski’s concerns about the investigation.

But it could have just as easily been a case of Brady looking out for his friend. Why didn’t Brady text or call Jastremski for six months? Well, he did see him in the locker room every day. The two are friends, but most likely in a business-only sense.

When Brady texted “You good Jonny boy?” maybe he was just being nice.

■ You can’t necessarily blame Brady for not handing over electronic communications.

Wells wanted to check out Brady’s texts and e-mails, as he did with Jastremski and McNally. It’s important to note that Wells didn’t explicitly asked Brady to hand over his cell phone and laptop.

“We offered to allow Brady’s counsel to screen and control the production so that it would be limited strictly to responsive materials and would not involve our taking possession of Brady’s telephone or other electronic devices,” he wrote.

That said, Brady is no ordinary human. He’s a mega superstar worth hundreds of millions, married to a mega supermodel worth hundreds millions more. He might not have wanted his cell phone number leaking out. He might have sensitive pictures of Gisele Bundchen he didn’t want leaking out. He might have photographs and cell phone numbers of famous celebrities he didn’t want leaking out.

Brady’s phone is no ordinary phone. I don’t necessarily blame him for not trusting Wells and his investigators, even if they said that they wouldn’t actually take possession of his phone.

Wells wrote that “there is less direct evidence linking Brady to tampering activities than either McNally or Jastremski.”

No kidding. If the NFL is going to punish Brady, it better make sure it believes all of Wells’s assumptions with 100 percent certainty.
 
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