Next year's coach!

[IrishLax]

Whoa, really? You know that?

If Kelly is initiating conversations with NFL franchises, then jumping to the NFL is a more serious possibility than I realized. I thought his name was being thrown around based on nothing but idle speculation.

Yes. In short, through work stuff I've got a decent connection to a franchise, and unless someone is just straight up lying to me (or misinformed) I know that his agent at minimum called that team to express interest/gauge options. And I'm guessing he did similar stuff for other teams.

Now, this is what agents are supposed to do. They're supposed to behind the scenes keep options on the table for their client. This doesn't necessarily mean Kelly actually has interest in moving on or that it's probable or anything like that. But his agent is at least making the calls.

 

[bkess8]

You said Willingham. I assume you meant Wittingham.

My choices would be Wittingham and Mendenhal.

Thanks and yes that is what I meant, sorry for the confusion!

 

[NDohio]

Yes. In short, through work stuff I've got a decent connection to a franchise, and unless someone is just straight up lying to me (or misinformed) I know that his agent at minimum called that team to express interest/gauge options. And I'm guessing he did similar stuff for other teams.

Now, this is what agents are supposed to do. They're supposed to behind the scenes keep options on the table for their client. This doesn't necessarily mean Kelly actually has interest in moving on or that it's probable or anything like that. But his agent is at least making the calls.

Yes. Whether BK has interest in the NFL or not doesn't matter. His agent is supposed to find his client opportunities whether the client wants those opportunities or not.

That being said, this could be an interesting off-season. Again ...

 

[Nick Setta]

Trestman is available him at HC/OC and Rex Ryan as the DC.

 

[IrishLax]

Ok with all this talk about Kelly possibly leaving, who are legitimate candidates to replace him? Not people you want like Gruden or Stoops, who could we get is what I'm asking. Could Willingham be a possibility?

So the EASY option is Whittingham. We could get him with 100% certainty, and for not a lot of money. Because he's done with Utah's admin and their AD is being a little bitch to him, too. I think the buck stops here. Guy went 13-0 at Utah and beat a 12-1 Nick Saban led Alabama team in a BCS Bowl. And was a coach of the year. And has a ranked team in the PAC12 despite tons of injuries and a HUGE talent disparity. Flat out good coach.

After that, Dan Mullen has purposely not signed an extension with MSU. They say all the politically correct things in Starkville about it "taking time" but the truth is he wants to keep his options open and move on for the right $$ and the right Tier 1 job. Mississippi State is a Tier 3 dead end job.

Then you have the other guys...
-Fuente at Memphis is a huge reach but he's a heck of a coach, and his buyout even after his extension is meh.
-Sumlin has positioned his contract at Texas A&M such that it's not hard for him to get out. He reportedly wants the NFL, but would also be interested in another college job that gets him out of the SEC West.
-Mendenhall... expressed interest in getting out of BYU for Wisconsin.
-Rex Ryan. Enough said, we could pay him more than he'd make as a DC in the NFL.
-Tom Clements. Your "stop gap" option.
-Mike McCoy. Darkhorse.

 

[bkess8]

So the EASY option is Whittingham. We could get him with 100% certainty, and for not a lot of money. Because he's done with Utah's admin and their AD is being a little bitch to him, too. I think the buck stops here. Guy went 13-0 at Utah and beat a 12-1 Nick Saban led Alabama team in a BCS Bowl. And was a coach of the year. And has a ranked team in the PAC12 despite tons of injuries and a HUGE talent disparity. Flat out good coach.

After that, Dan Mullen has purposely not signed an extension with MSU. They say all the politically correct things in Starkville about it "taking time" but the truth is he wants to keep his options open and move on for the right $$ and the right Tier 1 job. Mississippi State is a Tier 3 dead end job.

Then you have the other guys...
-Fuente at Memphis is a huge reach but he's a heck of a coach, and his buyout even after his extension is meh.
-Sumlin has positioned his contract at Texas A&M such that it's not hard for him to get out. He reportedly wants the NFL, but would also be interested in another college job that gets him out of the SEC West.
-Mendenhall... expressed interest in getting out of BYU for Wisconsin.
-Rex Ryan. Enough said, we could pay him more than he'd make as a DC in the NFL.
-Tom Clements. Your "stop gap" option.
-Mike McCoy. Darkhorse.

Thank you, this was the information I was looking for. I would like to see someone like Dan Mullen also, I think that his offensive style would be easy to recruit at ND and wouldn't take that much time to get on track.

 

[TK22867]

Yes. Whether BK has interest in the NFL or not doesn't matter. His agent is supposed to find his client opportunities whether the client wants those opportunities or not.

But in reality, if BK does not have any NFL interest his agent would simply use the NFL "rumors" for nothing more than more leverage with the University. Not sure he would get much leverage based on this season's results.

I'm not sure who the replacement should be. We tried the "proven college coach" with BK and the results have been a mixed bag so far.

With that said, I hope BK stays. Let's see what he does with "his guys" in 2015 and then re-evaluate. Hopefully we spray for injury bugs next year.

 

[IrishLax]

Also, FWIW, next year I think the crop of potential hires is going to be a lot better with respect to poaching an NFL guy if that is the goal.

If Chip Kelly misses the playoffs again in Philly, he'll be on the hot seat. Especially for how much they're paying him. And if you throw $7-8mil/year at him you could probably get him back to college.

Fuente will have another year of proving himself at Memphis. I'm telling you that guy is a heck of a coach.

Jason Garret... if the Cowboys fail in the playoffs again this year and stumble next year... could be out in Dallas.

Doug Marrone from Buffalo. Was really highly regarded despite mixed results at Syracuse. Good coach, players at Cuse loved him.

Mike McCoy will be more realistic if Chargers miss playoffs again. There is a lot to like about that guy.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Thanks and yes that is what I meant, sorry for the confusion!

That makes much more sense. I no longer deem thee a troll.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I think ND has the ability to be a great academic institution AND have an elite football program, but they just refuse to allow it to happen.

I disagree. Top tier CFB is an amoral, hyper-competitive, multi-billion dollar industry. It's not possible to stay on top in such a sphere with quaint concepts like "student-athletes" and "academic integrity" holding you back.

It's no coincidence that ND athletics is elite in most areas except the revenue sports.

If they make some small changes w/o completely selling out, it's possible.

This is a persistent fantasy among ND fans-- if the BoT would just open up their wallets, or if we'd just modernize our program a bit more, etc. then ND would be back to winning titles. And it's understandable. No fan wants to hear that there are insuperable obstacles to his favorite team getting back on top.

But we aren't a few small changes away from sustained success. Granting Kelly the same sort of control over his roster that Harbaugh will enjoy at UM would require completely compromising the academic and disciplinary integrity of the program. We'd become just like everyone else. But until the BoT is willing to make peace with that compromise--ceding control over the program in exchange for more success/ money-- then we're in for more of the same.

But until then, regardless of who is coach, I think ND is cemented in upper-mediocrity with the occasional magical season.

It's worse than that, I'm afraid. As TV money continues to corrupt top tier CFB (making it even more competitive than it is now), the gulf between ND and the elite programs is only going to widen.

"No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." Matthew 6:24

 

[wizards8507]

I missed a week, what'd I miss? He gone?

 

[NorthDakota]

I disagree. Top tier CFB is an amoral, hyper-competitive, multi-billion dollar industry. It's not possible to stay on top in such a sphere with quaint concepts like "student-athletes" and "academic integrity" holding you back.

It's no coincidence that ND athletics is elite in most areas except the revenue sports.



This is a persistent fantasy among ND fans-- if the BoT would just open up their wallets, or if we'd just modernize our program a bit more, etc. then ND would be back to winning titles. And it's understandable. No fan wants to hear that there are insuperable obstacles to his favorite team getting back on top.

But we aren't a few small changes away from sustained success. Granting Kelly the same sort of control over his roster that Harbaugh will enjoy at UM would require completely compromising the academic and disciplinary integrity of the program. We'd become just like everyone else. But until the BoT is willing to make peace with that compromise--ceding control over the program in exchange for more success/ money-- then we're in for more of the same.



It's worse than that, I'm afraid. As TV money continues to corrupt top tier CFB (making it even more competitive than it is now), the gulf between ND and the elite programs is only going to widen.

If this is really the case, then ND has some tough questions to answer. I'm not a student or alum. Feel like that question should be answered by those directly tied to the school.

 

[IrishLax]

I disagree. Top tier CFB is an amoral, hyper-competitive, multi-billion dollar industry. It's not possible to stay on top in such a sphere with quaint concepts like "student-athletes" and "academic integrity" holding you back.

It's no coincidence that ND athletics is elite in most areas except the revenue sports.

This is a persistent fantasy among ND fans-- if the BoT would just open up their wallets, or if we'd just modernize our program a bit more, etc. then ND would be back to winning titles. And it's understandable. No fan wants to hear that there are insuperable obstacles to his favorite team getting back on top.

But we aren't a few small changes away from sustained success. Granting Kelly the same sort of control over his roster that Harbaugh will enjoy at UM would require completely compromising the academic and disciplinary integrity of the program. We'd become just like everyone else. But until the BoT is willing to make peace with that compromise--ceding control over the program in exchange for more success/ money-- then we're in for more of the same.

It's worse than that, I'm afraid. As TV money continues to corrupt top tier CFB (making it even more competitive than it is now), the gulf between ND and the elite programs is only going to widen.

Man, I disagree with like... 99% of this post.

USC is the best counterexample. It's a great academic institution for normal students. They insulate their football program, and therefor have "academic integrity" for their general populous while still fielding a competitive team.

No USC alums give a flying fuck that their football players are dumb and some struggle to graduate. No one cares about things like foreign language requirements, or that they take JUCOs. And the fact that they have dumb football players does NOTHING to hurt their reputation.

And if you polled ND fans on whether they would rather:
1) Insulate the football players like every other major program, spend $8mil/year on a coach, have a marginal drop in graduation rates, have no impact on the overall academic integrity/prestige of the institution, and win 9+ games every year...
OR
2) Keep doing things on the cheap with self-imposed restrictions with 8 wins the typical the season...

95%+ are choosing Option A.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Man, I disagree with like... 99% of this post.

USC is the best counterexample. It's a great academic institution for normal students. They insulate their football program, and therefor have "academic integrity" for their general populous while still fielding a competitive team.

No USC alums give a flying fuck that their football players are dumb and some struggle to graduate. No one cares about things like foreign language requirements, or that they take JUCOs. And the fact that they have dumb football players does NOTHING to hurt their reputation.

I don't think we disagree at all. USC runs a typical, slimy, amoral football program. If the BoT decided tomorrow that the exposure and monetary benefits to the University would outweigh the academic/ ethical costs involved with insulating our program like everyone else does, then there'd be very little standing between us and another title. But I don't see the BoT coming to that decision soon, and I'm not sure I'd want them to.

And if you polled ND fans on whether they would rather:
1) Insulate the football players like every other major program, spend $8mil/year on a coach, have a marginal drop in graduation rates, have no impact on the overall academic integrity/prestige of the institution, and win 9+ games every year...
OR
2) Keep doing things on the cheap with self-imposed restrictions with 8 wins the typical the season...

95%+ are choosing Option A.

No doubt. Especially among the Subway Alumni, because they aren't invested in the academic and ethical integrity of the institution like graduates are. But the outcome of such a poll is irrelevant to: (1) what the BoT will do; and (2) what the BoT ought to do.

 

[IrishLax]

No doubt. Especially among the Subway Alumni, because they aren't invested in the academic and ethical integrity of the institution like graduates are. But the outcome of such a poll is irrelevant to: (1) what the BoT will do; and (2) what the BoT ought to do.

Sooooo.... how exactly does one get on the BoT? And how do we stack it with IE members?

 

[tussin]

I don't attribute 99% of our recent problems to self-imposed restrictions. The only thing that legitimately irks me is the witch-hunt, "one mistake and you're out" enforcement policies at the University. I think that is a standard that very, very few schools (regardless of Division) prescribe to.

We out-recruit Oregon every single year. Seems to me that the majority of our problems come down to depth issues (partially bad luck) and illogical scheduling. The talent is there... it's the little stuff that needs to be fixed.

 

[Irish YJ]

I disagree. Top tier CFB is an amoral, hyper-competitive, multi-billion dollar industry. It's not possible to stay on top in such a sphere with quaint concepts like "student-athletes" and "academic integrity" holding you back.

It's no coincidence that ND athletics is elite in most areas except the revenue sports.



This is a persistent fantasy among ND fans-- if the BoT would just open up their wallets, or if we'd just modernize our program a bit more, etc. then ND would be back to winning titles. And it's understandable. No fan wants to hear that there are insuperable obstacles to his favorite team getting back on top.

But we aren't a few small changes away from sustained success. Granting Kelly the same sort of control over his roster that Harbaugh will enjoy at UM would require completely compromising the academic and disciplinary integrity of the program. We'd become just like everyone else. But until the BoT is willing to make peace with that compromise--ceding control over the program in exchange for more success/ money-- then we're in for more of the same.



It's worse than that, I'm afraid. As TV money continues to corrupt top tier CFB (making it even more competitive than it is now), the gulf between ND and the elite programs is only going to widen.

Man, I disagree with like... 99% of this post.

USC is the best counterexample. It's a great academic institution for normal students. They insulate their football program, and therefor have "academic integrity" for their general populous while still fielding a competitive team.

No USC alums give a flying fuck that their football players are dumb and some struggle to graduate. No one cares about things like foreign language requirements, or that they take JUCOs. And the fact that they have dumb football players does NOTHING to hurt their reputation.

And if you polled ND fans on whether they would rather:
1) Insulate the football players like every other major program, spend $8mil/year on a coach, have a marginal drop in graduation rates, have no impact on the overall academic integrity/prestige of the institution, and win 9+ games every year...
OR
2) Keep doing things on the cheap with self-imposed restrictions with 8 wins the typical the season...

95%+ are choosing Option A.

You both are right. I don't see ND ever insulating the program like others do, but that does not mean they can't relax some of the academic requirements. As it stands, we'll continue to be a 15-40th ranked program 90% of the time. The other 9% of the time we'll hang 5-15th. IMO, the one percent when we are truly top 4 and have a legitimate NC shot are those years when we luck out on recruiting and have somehow stumbled into top skill players on O, and some really talented big kids on D. We'll always have a decent O-line and TE, but we will continue to struggle getting top tier DL, DBs, WRs, and RBs so long as we have the current standards.

I don't think we have to totally sell out, but relaxing academic requirements could change that 1% into 10%, and the 9% into 40%.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

The entirety of my post was to show that unless there are some changes made, Bob Stoops, Urban Meyer, etc aren't walking through that door.

I personally don't want ND to sell out 100%, but I would like to see them start to be a little more flexible and actually try to support the football team. And Whiskey, I completely disagree that ND can't have both academic prestige and football prestige. I just think the stars aren't being "allowed" to align in that manner. And I'm not talking about opening wallets. There are numerous issues that collectively cause this program to fall flat on it's face year after year.

 

[ulukinatme]

The entirety of my post was to show that unless there are some changes made, Bob Stoops, Urban Meyer, etc aren't walking through that door.

I personally don't want ND to sell out 100%, but I would like to see them start to be a little more flexible and actually try to support the football team. And Whiskey, I completely disagree that ND can't have both academic prestige and football prestige. I just think the stars aren't being "allowed" to align in that manner. And I'm not talking about opening wallets. There are numerous issues that collectively cause this program to fall flat on it's face year after year.

It would be nice if we were a little more flexible with admissions when it comes to football. If a kid like Isaiah McKenzie wants in and can get accepted at UGA, we should be able to get him too. However, I don't think we can be football prestigious and have the academic prestige. You can't expect to compete each and every year to be a playoff contender when you're consistently shooting yourself in the foot like we do. Obviously we had extenuating circumstances that hampered our season, like the ridiculous number of defensive injuries, but at the same time we sat 3 starters that most likely would have missed just a game or two at most other schools. Maybe we can still have a very good season every 5 years or so, but it's silly to think we can be playoff contenders each year when we limit the type of athletes we bring in AND we impose ridiculous sanctions on ourselves above and beyond what the NCAA punishes other schools for.

 

[TheChosen1]

Yes. In short, through work stuff I've got a decent connection to a franchise, and unless someone is just straight up lying to me (or misinformed) I know that his agent at minimum called that team to express interest/gauge options. And I'm guessing he did similar stuff for other teams.

Now, this is what agents are supposed to do. They're supposed to behind the scenes keep options on the table for their client. This doesn't necessarily mean Kelly actually has interest in moving on or that it's probable or anything like that. But his agent is at least making the calls.

While I hope I'm wrong I wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow is BK's last gane he coaches at Notre Dame and I can't say I blame him.

 

[tko]

While I hope I'm wrong I wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow is BK's last gane he coaches at Notre Dame and I can't say I blame him.

And this will be so apparent on the first series. We'll quickly see where his head is and where his team is.

 

[bkess8]

Regardless of who the coach is next season I would love to see some fire and passion in our players, hell I wouldn't mind if we racked up some celebration penalties! I want to see kids having FUN playing FOOTBALL!

 

[NDohio]

Also, FWIW, next year I think the crop of potential hires is going to be a lot better with respect to poaching an NFL guy if that is the goal.

If Chip Kelly misses the playoffs again in Philly, he'll be on the hot seat. Especially for how much they're paying him. And if you throw $7-8mil/year at him you could probably get him back to college.

Fuente will have another year of proving himself at Memphis. I'm telling you that guy is a heck of a coach.

Jason Garret... if the Cowboys fail in the playoffs again this year and stumble next year... could be out in Dallas.

Doug Marrone from Buffalo. Was really highly regarded despite mixed results at Syracuse. Good coach, players at Cuse loved him.

Mike McCoy will be more realistic if Chargers miss playoffs again. There is a lot to like about that guy.

I am drawing a blank here - Does Chip have a show cause penalty that will be assessed if he goes back to CFB?

 

[IrishLax]

I am drawing a blank here - Does Chip have a show cause penalty that will be assessed if he goes back to CFB?

My understanding of the rules, which could be wrong, is that the show cause has expired.

 

[tko]

Why on Earth would Chip Kelly consider ND?

 

[NDohio]

My understanding of the rules, which could be wrong, is that the show cause has expired.

I remember it was 18 months when it happened, but don't remember if that goes away after 18 calender months or if goes into effect when he accepts his next CFB job.

 

[ulukinatme]

Why on Earth would Chip Kelly consider ND?

I think the real question is...why would any good coach consider ND? We might be royally screwed if Kelly does leave, I can't imagine who we would get at this point in time.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't attribute 99% of our recent problems to self-imposed restrictions. The only thing that legitimately irks me is the witch-hunt, "one mistake and you're out" enforcement policies at the University. I think that is a standard that very, very few schools (regardless of Division) prescribe to.

That's because ND treats its football players like regular students, whereas virtually every other football school treats them like the high-value celebrities they are. Changing that would not be a minor thing.

We out-recruit Oregon every single year. Seems to me that the majority of our problems come down to depth issues (partially bad luck) and illogical scheduling. The talent is there... it's the little stuff that needs to be fixed.

Our depth issues are just the most obvious symptom of the unique roster management challenges our coaches faces. High academic standards, and no gray-shirts, JuCos, or oversigning means we'll always be a single injury away from disaster in at least one position group. The sort of total defensive collapse due to mounting injuries we suffered through this season simply doesn't happen at other top tier programs without roster management restrictions.

I don't think we have to totally sell out, but relaxing academic requirements could change that 1% into 10%, and the 9% into 40%.

See above. Our high academic standards are just one of many ways that ND "self-sanctions". Becoming like everyone else in this regard would not be a minor change.

There are numerous issues that collectively cause this program to fall flat on it's face year after year.

Yes, but those issues exist because of ND's ethical standards. We could toss them out and compete like everyone else, but that would require some major compromises in how ND views itself. I don't believe there's a middle ground here where ND maintains its academic and ethical integrity (with regards to the football program) while making "minor tweaks" to regain top tier competitiveness. The programs we're competing against have no ethical constraints. We can't go toe-to-toe with them without seriously compromising our identity.

If a kid like Isaiah McKenzie wants in and can get accepted at UGA, we should be able to get him too.

UGA is happy to take kids who barely squeak past the NCAA minimums for eligibility, because they park them in joke majors where class attendance is optional. Guys like McKenzie are semi-pro football players, not student-athletes.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

So Brian Kelly is gone as the head coach of Notre Dame? Can't find a press release anywhere, please paste link. Thanks.

 

[IrishLax]

Why on Earth would Chip Kelly consider ND?

Are you serious?

First of all, the only reason he left college was that he was scared of looming sanctions and a show cause penalty. He had to get out before Lache Seastrunk caught up with him.

Any discussion on Chip Kelly is entirely predicated on him failing to make the playoffs again next season, and the Eagles having no patience for a coach producing markedly worse results than Andy Reid. So a lot of it is pointless at this juncture, but you could've said the same about Harbaugh last year at this time. The stars had to align to get him out of San Francisco.

Enter the hypothetical scenario where Brian Kelly leaves next year. Chip Kelly has two choices... find another NFL team (very possible) or return to college. In the event that ND is willing to pay top dollar, there is little doubt that it would be one of if not the single best collegiate landing spot for him. Consider that you would have a roster with a talented OL, 3 extremely talented dual-threat QBs, and WRs that are better than anything he had at Oregon. He has all the pieces except stud speedster RBs to run his offense.

Chip Kelly is making $6.5mil/year with the Eagles. If he got fired, it's doubtful any other club seeking his services would pay him more than $5mil/year. If ND threw Harbaugh style money at him, it'd be an extremely enticing offer.

In short, if Chip Kelly fails with the Eagles and can't latch on somewhere else in the NFL his only route is back to college... if back to college, what other Tier 1 schools would be a better fit and hiring next year? It's a lot more plausible than you think, but he needs to fail with the Eagles first.