ND Men BB Recruiting

[GoIrish399]

Mercer also had 12 rebounds:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Demetrius Jackson had 19p & 11r, but team lost 59-57 in sectional semifinal Fri. Mack Mercer (ND's looking) led winners 11p, 12r, 5b, 4a.</p>— Notre Dame Hoops (@NDHoopsRecruits) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDHoopsRecruits/status/307859889387089920">March 2, 2013</a></blockquote>
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Sounds like all of our commits are doing well.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>High schools playoffs continue nationally. VJ Beachem had 23 points in his team's (16-5) 81-62 sectional semifinal win Fri.</p>— Notre Dame Hoops (@NDHoopsRecruits) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDHoopsRecruits/status/307857983763779585">March 2, 2013</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Steve Vasturia had 32 points, 6 rebounds, and 5 steals as his team advanced in the PA state playoffs.</p>— Notre Dame Hoops (@NDHoopsRecruits) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDHoopsRecruits/status/307466612326428672">March 1, 2013</a></blockquote>
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[FightingIrishLover7]

Steve is the sleeper in this class.
He might not be the best day 1, but he'll end up being a prolific scorer for us in the future. Imo

 

[arrowryan]

Hoping for Paul White and Mack Mercer for 2014. Both are big guys

 

[Patulski]

I watched Austin Torres last night in the Sectional final where he scored 11 points in a losing effort. There were two Adams players that were better basketball players than he is.

He is a stiff and slow 6-7 for the college game, where he'll have to be a swing man. He is much less agile and athletic than Cameron Biedsheid and Pat Connaughton. Having season tickets, I watched both Biedschied and Connaughton as true freshman. Torres isn't nearly as good as they were when they stepped on campus. I predict that Torres will not make enough improvement in 6 months to come up to their level. So, I think he'll redshirt. I will be very surprised if he is ever a strong contributor at ND. I am surprised that he received a scholarship. He has MAC talent or below in my opinion.

 

[GoIrish399]

I watched Austin Torres last night in the Sectional final where he scored 11 points in a losing effort. There were two Adams players that were better basketball players than he is.

He is a stiff and slow 6-7 for the college game, where he'll have to be a swing man. He is much less agile and athletic than Cameron Biedsheid and Pat Connaughton. Having season tickets, I watched both Biedschied and Connaughton as true freshman. Torres isn't nearly as good as they were when they stepped on campus. I predict that Torres will not make enough improvement in 6 months to come up to their level. So, I think he'll redshirt. I will be very surprised if he is ever a strong contributor at ND. I am surprised that he received a scholarship. He has MAC talent or below in my opinion.

Is that the only game that you have watched of him?

 

[clashmore_mike]

I believe Brey said when Torres signed that he would be going the 5 year route and it was already understood by Torres. He is more of a project, definitely.

 

[Patulski]

I believe Brey said when Torres signed that he would be going the 5 year route and it was already understood by Torres. He is more of a project, definitely.

Why are we recruiting projects?

My family and I have have had season tickets since the ACC (now Purcell) was built. I just don't understand why (a) we gave Brey a 10 year contract and (b) why we recruit projects.

The only conclusion I have reached is that ND really doesn't care all that much about winning.

It's a frikken shame. For awhile there with Digger- when the building was first built- we really were an elite program that routinely reached the sweet 16 and reached the elite 8 and the Final Four. It was a great venue with constant sellouts. Now, we play for the regular season, where for the first 14 or so "buy" games the arena is like a tomb. Then we have a few good crowds and an occasional great one. We play for the regular season, while all the elite teams play for the tournament.

I'll still go to the games, because there's not much to do in SB in the winter. However, lots of other people are dumping their season tickets- and other than a few games that are televised- the students don't show up. It's pathetic how weak student support is. The arena is half full for more than half of the games.

I expect a quick exit again this year. When you play for the regular season, you burn out your players. But they'll keep saying Brey is a great coach, even as he can't win two tournament games.

 

[DillonHall]

It's very difficult to recruit elite basketball players to ND; it's a vastly different situation from football because of the 3-year post-high school requirement vs the 1-year requirement in basketball. Most elite basketball players are focused on getting to the NBA, not on earning a college degree.

Frankly, students have more important things to be doing than attending a basketball game against DePaul.

 

[arrowryan]

Demetrius and Torres both made First Team All-NIC

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Why are we recruiting projects?

My family and I have have had season tickets since the ACC (now Purcell) was built. I just don't understand why (a) we gave Brey a 10 year contract and (b) why we recruit projects.

The only conclusion I have reached is that ND really doesn't care all that much about winning.

It's a frikken shame. For awhile there with Digger- when the building was first built- we really were an elite program that routinely reached the sweet 16 and reached the elite 8 and the Final Four. It was a great venue with constant sellouts. Now, we play for the regular season, where for the first 14 or so "buy" games the arena is like a tomb. Then we have a few good crowds and an occasional great one. We play for the regular season, while all the elite teams play for the tournament.

I'll still go to the games, because there's not much to do in SB in the winter. However, lots of other people are dumping their season tickets- and other than a few games that are televised- the students don't show up. It's pathetic how weak student support is. The arena is half full for more than half of the games.

I expect a quick exit again this year. When you play for the regular season, you burn out your players. But they'll keep saying Brey is a great coach, even as he can't win two tournament games.

Not a great conclusion, I'd go explore alternative hypotheses if I were you. Because, clearly, yours is incorrect.

 

[arrowryan]

Not a great conclusion, I'd go explore alternative hypotheses if I were you. Because, clearly, yours is incorrect.

Totally agree. Has had 7 straight 20+ win seasons now and they don't care about winning? I understand

 

[IrishLax]

I really don't understand the Brey hate sometimes. It's incredibly difficult... bordering on impossible... to be a truly elite school in both basketball and football. The only teams in recent memory we've seen do it are Ohio State and Florida.

Brey continually puts a top 25 team on the floor that wins a lot of games in what is (was?) the toughest conference in basketball and regularly finishes in the top 4 in the league. He's made the tournament 5/6 last years and is about to make it 4 in a row. Upset about no deep tourney runs? Those are sheer dumb luck. Anything can happen in a singular game of basketball.

I question who people would want instead of Brey that we could get. The only person I can really think of is Shaka Smart... who would in turn probably leave us for a big time job when it came open. Butler coach wouldn't take the job. No blue chip coaches at blue chip programs would take the job.

Oh, and Mike Brey is a 3x Big East Coach of the Year and 2x NATIONAL Coach of the Year... who has ultimately taken ND to 8 NCAA tournaments in 11 seasons when the team previously hadn't been to a single effing tourney in over a decade.

But... yeah let's totally kick him to the curb for someone better.......

 

[GowerND11]

I really don't understand the Brey hate sometimes. It's incredibly difficult... bordering on impossible... to be a truly elite school in both basketball and football. The only teams in recent memory we've seen do it are Ohio State and Florida.

Brey continually puts a top 25 team on the floor that wins a lot of games in what is (was?) the toughest conference in basketball and regularly finishes in the top 4 in the league. He's made the tournament 5/6 last years and is about to make it 4 in a row. Upset about no deep tourney runs? Those are sheer dumb luck. Anything can happen in a singular game of basketball.

I question who people would want instead of Brey that we could get. The only person I can really think of is Shaka Smart... who would in turn probably leave us for a big time job when it came open. Butler coach wouldn't take the job. No blue chip coaches at blue chip programs would take the job.

Oh, and Mike Brey is a 3x Big East Coach of the Year and 2x NATIONAL Coach of the Year... who has ultimately taken ND to 8 NCAA tournaments in 11 seasons when the team previously hadn't been to a single effing tourney in over a decade.

But... yeah let's totally kick him to the curb for someone better.......

^ All of this. Brey has even said he would love to get one of those 1 and done players if he could, but there is no chance in ever getting one of them at Notre Dame. Instead, Brey has churned out very good teams in his tenure. This team fights.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I really don't understand the Brey hate sometimes. It's incredibly difficult... bordering on impossible... to be a truly elite school in both basketball and football. The only teams in recent memory we've seen do it are Ohio State and Florida.

Brey continually puts a top 25 team on the floor that wins a lot of games in what is (was?) the toughest conference in basketball and regularly finishes in the top 4 in the league. He's made the tournament 5/6 last years and is about to make it 4 in a row. Upset about no deep tourney runs? Those are sheer dumb luck. Anything can happen in a singular game of basketball.

I question who people would want instead of Brey that we could get. The only person I can really think of is Shaka Smart... who would in turn probably leave us for a big time job when it came open. Butler coach wouldn't take the job. No blue chip coaches at blue chip programs would take the job.

Oh, and Mike Brey is a 3x Big East Coach of the Year and 2x NATIONAL Coach of the Year... who has ultimately taken ND to 8 NCAA tournaments in 11 seasons when the team previously hadn't been to a single effing tourney in over a decade.

But... yeah let's totally kick him to the curb for someone better.......

I like Brey, but I don't think runs in March are dumb luck. The way he plays is geared towards winning a BE title, not a NCAA title IMO. I understand and appreciate the difficulties he has in putting a product on the floor that can reach the sweet 16 on a regular basis. He has many barriers to overcome. But, I also think his coaching strategy could play a role in not getting far in March. He has normally had a large reliance on jump shooting and when you play your key guards 30+ minutes a night, tired legs make it difficult come March.

I like Brey and I think ND would be foolish to think they could do much better, but I think we need to realize that Brey needs to change his style if he wants success in March.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

It's very difficult to recruit elite basketball players to ND; it's a vastly different situation from football because of the 3-year post-high school requirement vs the 1-year requirement in basketball. Most elite basketball players are focused on getting to the NBA, not on earning a college degree.

Frankly, students have more important things to be doing than attending a basketball game against DePaul.

Weak. I could understand that being said about a game against Cardinal Stirich at the beginning of the year, but not against Big East games. The only thing I really agreed with the other posters criticism is the abysmal student turnout. At the Cincy game the student section was the least full section of the arena. The student body here should definitely turnout in stronger numbers. If someone cannot even consistently make the Big East games (I understand everyone has to miss a game sometimes) then they're not a fan of the team, you can't just suddenly become a big fan when its time to play UK or Louisville.

 

[arrowryan]

Weak. I could understand that being said about a game against Cardinal Stirich at the beginning of the year, but not against Big East games. The only thing I really agreed with the other posters criticism is the abysmal student turnout. At the Cincy game the student section was the least full section of the arena. The student body here should definitely turnout in stronger numbers. If someone cannot even consistently make the Big East games (I understand everyone has to miss a game sometimes) then they're not a fan of the team, you can't just suddenly become a big fan when its time to play UK or Louisville.

So you expected a full student section against an unranked Cinci team on a Sunday afternoon when over half the student body is hungover?

 

[IrishLax]

I like Brey, but I don't think runs in March are dumb luck. The way he plays is geared towards winning a BE title, not a NCAA title IMO. I understand and appreciate the difficulties he has in putting a product on the floor that can reach the sweet 16 on a regular basis. He has many barriers to overcome. But, I also think his coaching strategy could play a role in not getting far in March. He has normally had a large reliance on jump shooting and when you play your key guards 30+ minutes a night, tired legs make it difficult come March.

I like Brey and I think ND would be foolish to think they could do much better, but I think we need to realize that Brey needs to change his style if he wants success in March.

See, I agree with this point, but have a different spin on it. I do think our style of play hampers our ability to matchup with teams we aren't used to seeing. You're right that we're typically a jump shooting team unathletic players at 1/2/3 and tweeners at 4/5 that relies on ball movement to score. I don't think tired legs causes us to lose in March (although Brey's limited rotations have always been an issue) as much as it's that we're a horrible matchup against athletic teams with length. Like all sports, but especially in basketball, winning/losing is typically predicated on matchups. Many times an "inferior" opponent can exploit good matchups against a "superior" opponent and ride that to victory.

So that's what I consider luck... with a draw that plays to our strength, we can be successful... but with a bad draw this team really doesn't stand a chance. Example: The year we were a #2 seed and got ousted by Florida State... Florida State was arguably the best defensive team in the country and extremely athletic/deep. I knew we were effed the moment I saw the draw and I was praying that Texas A&M would take care of business but they didn't. What about the other 7/10 seeds? Temple, Penn State, Washington, Georgia are all teams we likely would've whipped. UCLA, Michigan State I'm not sure about.

But even in games where you're a prohibitive favorite, outside of the first round no one but some select 1 seeds has a greater than 65% or so chance of winning. For simply"good" basketball team (4-6 seed) historical data suggests that only about 1 out of 3 teams in this range of #13 in the country to #24 gets to the Sweet 16.

Based on our seeding history, Brey under performs the expected results in a small sample... and if we made the Sweet 16 this year we would pull just about level with expected tournament results per seeding... so expecting a coach to outperform mathematical norms, like some apparently do, seems a bit odd to me. In any singular tournament run there is a large portion of chance or "luck" involved both in the individual games and the bracket seeding.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Weak. I could understand that being said about a game against Cardinal Stirich at the beginning of the year,

It's Stritch! I went to high school there!

 

[arrowryan]

It's Stritch! I went to high school there!

Cardinal Stritch is a junior college isn't it? Lol

 

[Buster Bluth]

Cardinal Stritch is a junior college isn't it? Lol

Not sure, I know there's a university in Wisconsin, but it's a high school just outside of Toledo too.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

It's Stritch! I went to high school there!

Cardinal Stritch is a junior college isn't it? Lol

Not sure, I know there's a university in Wisconsin, but it's a high school just outside of Toledo too.

My mistake! And yeah it was the university in Wisconsin. We played them during the exhibition slate. They actually brought a pretty good group of fans with them, over 100, and a lot of guys in red spandex suits or costumes. Not expecting droves of students for that but still think its reasonable to have a nearly full student section for all the Big East games.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

So you expected a full student section against an unranked Cinci team on a Sunday afternoon when over half the student body is hungover?

Yes. Unranked or not it was a really big game that we needed to win. The rest of the arena was full, pretty embarrassing when the student section is the only part of the arena not full.

 

[Buster Bluth]

My mistake! And yeah it was the university in Wisconsin. We played them during the exhibition slate. They actually brought a pretty good group of fans with them, over 100, and a lot of guys in red spandex suits or costumes. Not expecting droves of students for that but still think its reasonable to have a nearly full student section for all the Big East games.

haha I was just being silly anyway

 

[irishrb]

Brey has obviously done a lot of good at ND. He is obviously not a proven tournament coach, but he actually has accomplished A LOT if you consider the NBA talent he has had to work with. There are 2 things that bother me about him. One, he doesn't use his bench well. Two, he starts that burn too early. I know it has worked for him, but I hate it when he starts the burn with over ten minutes left in a game.

 

[arrowryan]

Yes. Unranked or not it was a really big game that we needed to win. The rest of the arena was full, pretty embarrassing when the student section is the only part of the arena not full.

Well I was in the student section so you can't blame me. Lol

 

[DillonHall]

Yes. Unranked or not it was a really big game that we needed to win. The rest of the arena was full, pretty embarrassing when the student section is the only part of the arena not full.

I don't understand why students have to go to anything to prove themselves as true ND fans. This post is ridiculous.

 

[Patulski]

Frankly, students have more important things to be doing than attending a basketball game against DePaul.

Like what?

My stepdaughter and son-in-law both graduated in the past 10 years. So, don't tell me that ND students can't take four hours out from studying to attend two games a week. I know that's not true.

 

[Patulski]

Not a great conclusion, I'd go explore alternative hypotheses if I were you. Because, clearly, yours is incorrect.

Well that was convincing.

But since I am a season ticket holder, here's what they could do to show me they care, since you didn't provide any evidence.

1. Reduce ticket prices for the upper concourse. Clearly the city isn't going to pay those prices. Lower the prices to get more fans in the door.

2. Make season tickets part of tuition. The students have to pay for tickets. They typically only buy a Big East package. If they can come for free, perhaps they'll show up

3. Expect better recruiting. We are far below the elite in talent. We get their castoffs. Set the academic bar to be the same as football. Hire a coach who is a dynamic recruiter as well as a good bench coach. Watch Izzo or Kryzewski work the referees and their players and then watch Brey. He's not in their league. We did it when we hired a young Digger. We can do it again.

4. Set the bar for success on the NCAA tournament. We gave Brey a 10 year extension when he accomplished (a) one sweet sixteen appearance with players he didn't recruit (b) one 3rd round (c) 5 second round (d) 3 1st round (e) 3 NIT's. The tournament is what counts. We are around a Top 40-50 program based on that track record.

 

[NDdomer2]

Patulski,

If you are so upset with the program why do you continue to buy season tickets? Taking a guess here but I would imagine basketball season tickets sales have probably been on a steady increase in Brey's tenure. Hard to say a guy isn't worth an extension.

Recruiting is getting better. Outside of a couple All - Americans we didn't use to land many national recruited kids. We are starting to do so now, and the move to the ACC should only help keep that moving in the right direction.

If you don't think the bar is set for NCAA tournament success you're crazy. What sense would it make for Jack "The Man" Swarbrick to set high bars for all ND athletics, work his tail off to get a conference alignment that not only benefited the football program perfectly but our other athletics as well, then tell Brey, "hey don't worry about the NCAA tourney."

Lastly, why do you give a guy like Brey the 10 year ext.? Because other schools will and for a program that doesn't have the same tradition as the football program does a coach needs to be able to tell these kids I am not going anywhere if you come to ND. Stability and growth, and a little keep away.

You may disagree with most if not all of what I say but that is how I look at your arguments. Is it where we would all like it to be yet, absolutely not. Can we expect Digger Phelps to put on a plaid jacket and take Brey's job away? Absolutely not. No two coaches are alike and nor should they be.

 

[dudesthisisthebest]

3. Expect better recruiting. We are far below the elite in talent. We get their castoffs. Set the academic bar to be the same as football. Hire a coach who is a dynamic recruiter as well as a good bench coach. Watch Izzo or Kryzewski work the referees and their players and then watch Brey. He's not in their league. We did it when we hired a young Digger. We can do it again.

The only problem with that is ND isn't a destination job. Young dynamic recruiters are in HIGH demand. If one opens up do you think he's choosing ND where you have limited recruiting opportunities or a place like Memphis, UCLA, Texas etc.

Even if you did get one of those guys he'd likely bounce to bigger and better as soon as he had some success ala Bill Self at Illinois.

Mike Brey is a great fit at ND imo. I don't think he'll leave once he has success. NDs recruiting has improved and NDs basketball 'brand' has improved in the last few years.

The future of the program looks good right now. So I see no reason to move on from Brey even though I wouldn't consider him a great coach at all.