NCAA Ruling on the ND Academic Scandal

[wizards8507]

Anyone else feel bad for BK? I agree that it's time for him to go but he's had such bad luck. Between Declan Sullivan, injuries, this shit, and other controversies I'm amazed he hasn't resigned. He seems to me atleast to be a pretty good guy who is unfairly cast as an asshole in the media. Idk maybe it's Stockholm syndrome.

No, he's an actual asshole. I don't lay this one on him but I find the man unpitiable.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

This is gonna kill our all time win percentage.

do they go down as losses, or just games not played? Losses would kill it much more than just removing the wins with the loss column staying the same

 

[kmoose]

No, he's an actual asshole....

You've known him personally for how long now?

 

[NDgradstudent]

I'm a grad student at ND. If I had done these players' HW for them, then apparently no wins would be vacated, because the athletic department does not employ me. Does that make sense? How would that be any different than a 'student trainer' doing their HW for them?

 

[stlnd01]

I'm a grad student at ND. If I had done these players' HW for them, then apparently no wins would be vacated, because the athletic department does not employ me. Does that make sense? How would that be any different than a 'student trainer' doing their HW for them?

No. It makes no sense. Welcome to the NCAA's Enforcement Division.

 

[IrishinSyria]

do they go down as losses, or just games not played? Losses would kill it much more than just removing the wins with the loss column staying the same

It's the latter. Won't hurt the percentage as much as it will hurt the overall number of wins.

 

[BobbyMac]

I'm a grad student at ND. If I had done these players' HW for them, then apparently no wins would be vacated, because the athletic department does not employ me. Does that make sense? How would that be any different than a 'student trainer' doing their HW for them?

As someone who ran the tutors for a DI program, I can tell you that 75% of what tutors do for the average basketball/football player is academic fraud.

 

[irishff1014]

Anyone else feel bad for BK? I agree that it's time for him to go but he's had such bad luck. Between Declan Sullivan, injuries, this shit, and other controversies I'm amazed he hasn't resigned. He seems to me atleast to be a pretty good guy who is unfairly cast as an asshole in the media. Idk maybe it's Stockholm syndrome.

The rape,frozen five and this offseason with the arrest Kelly could do absolutely nothing from preventing them. I think Kelly has earned some scars but not these.

And no matter which way he turns he is the bad guy.

 

[NDgradstudent]

As someone who ran the tutors for a DI program, I can tell you that 75% of what tutors do for the average basketball/football player is academic fraud.

It just doesn't seem to me that there are any morally relevant differences between cheating facilitated by a tutor (the kind available to any student, athlete or not) or by a TA like myself or by a professor (as at UNC) and between someone working in the athletic department. There is nothing morally significant simply about being in the athletic department. Again, this girl's job was not about academics at all as far as I know.

 

[Junkhead]

It getting too hard to be an ND football fan these days. Time for a new team. Go BAMA?

 

[ND NYC]

can someone review in laymans terms what we believe the violation to be here?

going from memory so bare with me:
we have one student using another students paper, who got busted (who we believe was davaris) for it.
the other situation is 4 guys (hardy, russell, ishaq, moore) using/getting this tutor to do assignments for them?

is this about right?

 

[BobbyMac]

It just doesn't seem to me that there are any morally relevant differences between cheating facilitated by a tutor (the kind available to any student, athlete or not) or by a TA like myself or by a professor (as at UNC) and between someone working in the athletic department. There is nothing morally significant simply about being in the athletic department. Again, this girl's job was not about academics at all as far as I know.

There isn't.

I would say though there is a difference between a player cheating with a student in their dorm and cheating with a fellow student that has some duty (paid or volunteered) in the athletic department. The potential for abuse of power is present in case #2. The second student could potentially be asked to provide extra benefits by someone in the program they see as an authority. They are also in proximity to these authority figures on a regular basis. I can see how that can get out of hand in let's say... Jerry Tarkanian's UNLV program in the 80's as well as 7/8's of the SEC.

 

[BobbyMac]

It getting too hard to be an ND football fan these days. Time for a new team. Go BAMA?

You've always got Sunday's.

lol

 

[johnnycando]

It getting too hard to be an ND football fan these days. Time for a new team. Go BAMA?

It is incredibly difficult.

Our catharsis will occur someday.

Until then, I recommend valium.

 

[NorthDakota]

Just checked on twitter, lots of support for Notre Dame from Bilas, Mandel, etc. I don't think this sticks.

 

[Butchie]

Honest question...how will ND justify firing O'Leary and keeping BK after this?

Are you kidding me. These are not even close to the same thing.

 

[Butchie]

The price you pay for forcing your football players to take real classes. No credit for graduating players of all race with REAL degrees but let's make a mountain out ornate this mole hill. It's another witch hunt because ND haters out there feel ND thinks they're better than everyone else.......well we are! Go F yourselves NCAA and your imbalanced playing field. Any reason why the players names who caused this aren't getting their names thrown out there anymore? I suppose this will be yet another reason Kelly can mention for getting run out by USC. It would be nice if the players can channel a whole seasons frustrations into a angry mailing of USC. Time for a few late hits to set a tone for this D. No one has any fear of anyone on this D. Rant on!

WORD!

 

[Butchie]

Maybe, I'm not an expert at all. My only point was to contrast this with the strictly "off the field" stuff. If you have hookers running around campus, that's obviously lack of institutional control but it has nothing to do with the game being played on the field. Players playing who should be ineligible directly impacts the outcome of games and is thus more relevant to the vacating of wins, IMO.

I agree, But you have to KNOW! If you know then drill 'em. If they did not know & then complied WTF man. his in no way is as bad as recent scandals: OSU, Auburn, Ole MIss, USC, PSU, and even DICKROD at scUM. Look at DICKROD - he was knowingly running extended practices . . . . . KNOWINGLY! that is a benefit others following the rules do not get. What do coaches always say about bowl season - we need those extra reps - they're so important. Well, DICKROD provided that benefit ILLEGALLY. You strip the individuals of all credits earned during this time frame that you can prove & if that costs them their degree then so be it, but this is absurd to punish the athletic department & the other 95% of the football team doing it right.

 

[Butchie]

This is absolutely on point. The NCAA is vacating those wins because ND went back in time and failed them in those classes making them retroactively academically ineligible. But since UNC, after what I'm sure was careful review, meditation and much soul searching decided "fuck you" the wins still count as the athletes were eligible under their system.

I like this point. I think it is correct. Go back and award them the credit to become eligibel and state it was an oversight.

 

[Butchie]

The #1 "mover" for getting a coach fired is fan backlash. No school would ever fire its coach if the fans didn't ask for it. If you want someone else to coach this team then you better be saying it to whoever will listen. Keeping quiet isn't being "mature."

Anyway that's all I will say on that before Piombino starts harassing me again.

Great point. Give me a name outside of Meyer, Saban, Harbaugh. Can't do that? STFU.

 

[Butchie]

Do you recall that recent NYT article in which both Swarbrick and Jenkins state that ND would leave the NCAA and form its own league with other like-minded programs if the status quo devolved to the point that we could no longer maintain our integrity while remaining competitive? I worried then that we'd find ourselves there sooner than later based on current trends, and the NCAA's ruling today hasn't changed my mind at all.

We're holding ourselves to a standard that most of our peers once grudgingly respected, but now openly sneer at. We didn't get a fair hearing after the Kim Dunbar incident, we didn't get a fair hearing here, and we'll continue to get hosed in the future.

So we're faced with the choice of selling our souls and becoming no different from our peers, or trying to hold onto our integrity and making radical departure from top flight competitive football.

I agree. How Perfect. They are forcing us to conform to cheating better. Man, this world.

 

[Butchie]

No, he's an actual asshole. I don't lay this one on him but I find the man unpitiable.

He is, but so is Saban, so is Harbaugh, etc. The great ones are & I'm not saying he's a great one, but he did not forget how to coach. He did not all of a sudden forget scheme. Each good coach is their own kind of a$$hole. Really! I've played for them, I've watched them, they all have egos. It's what this game does to you. So Kelly an a$$hole - yeah I agree, but your only going to release one sphincter for another so that's not the argument. I think therea re reasons to fire him and reasons to keep him. I struggle with this. In the end I don't thin he's a NC guy, but I don't yet have a real replacement so until then . . . .

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

Sounds like Goodell is running the NFL and the NCAA.

And of course since ESPN just lost their fight with ND, so you know they are going to play this up big time.

Sorry, I'm out of the loop. Can you please expand?

 

[ulukinatme]

I've got one thing to say.

 

[NDShark]

Sorry, I'm out of the loop. Can you please expand?

ND doesn't have to release records from their police department to the public. ESPN sued for the records and ND just won the case.

 

[Black Irish]

I don't have anything to add except that the NCAA's ruling is a steaming pile of unmitigated horsesh*t.

 

[wizards8507]

You've known him personally for how long now?

Do you know Donald Trump personally? How about Hillary Clinton? Yet I'd imagine you have an opinion on both of them. Knowing them personally has nothing to do with it.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

ND doesn't have to release records from their police department to the public. ESPN sued for the records and ND just won the case.

Oh ok, that was just settled? Wow. I do recall that happening, hadn't realized that ruling was recent. Thanks

 

[kmoose]

Do you know Donald Trump personally? How about Hillary Clinton? Yet I'd imagine you have an opinion on both of them. Knowing them personally has nothing to do with it.

The difference is that I wouldn't say that Trump or Clinton is an "actual asshole" because I have never met either one of them, nor have I spent any time with them, to gauge their actual personality.

 

[tussin]

Do you know Donald Trump personally? How about Hillary Clinton? Yet I'd imagine you have an opinion on both of them. Knowing them personally has nothing to do with it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again --- kmoose is easily the most insufferable person on the board. IMO, he is the one poster that consistently detracts from the user experience.