NCAA Ruling on the ND Academic Scandal

[BleedBlueGold]

Davaris Daniels, Eilar Hardy, Kendall Moore, Ishaq Williams and KeiVarae Russell played in the 2012 season and 2013 season. The 2014 season is when they were suspended.

And it's funny to hear people blame Brian Kelly when he actually had nothing to do with it. I think you can be angry at the 4-7 record, but in this case, Kelly suffered through 2014 losing 3-4-starters and then did everything right after they found out. Not sure what else you would like him or his staff to do.

Thanks, TP. You're right. I had my seasons mixed up.

Again, for me personally, it has more to do with BK being the face of the program while all of this stuff is going on. It's the total culmination of things, not just this one incident. Personally, I'm over it, and ready to move on with a new coach at this point.

 

[dad4aa]

Honest question...how will ND justify firing O'Leary and keeping BK after this?

Seriously?? One coach lied and embellished his resume and the other had a handful of students cheating off another student. No comparison.

 

[BobbyMac]

Bull shit he doesn't know that the Players are cheating. And i know for fact he didn't know about because if he did Daniels would have run his mouth just like he has done every other time!!!

He is in charge of the program, when those associated with it violate policy and create a black eye for ND on his watch, he falls on the sword.

It's not fair, but neither is life.

 

[eNDzone]

Why fire Kelly? They will have to pay 2 coaches for a season that doesn't count.

 

[Luckylucci]

Hope these guys know they disgraced themselves, their family and their university. Looks like KVR is going to need that degree (assuming he got it). I think he was the only impact player who came back a lesser player than he left. Is he on a practice squad somewhere! I will say he at least made the effort to return unlike lazy Ishaq.

Didn't Ishaq come back, get his degree, but couldn't clear himself with the NCAA?

 

[BobbyMac]

Why fire Kelly? They will have to pay 2 coaches for a season that doesn't count.

Where did you see the list of sanctions that will be administered under next year's probation?

 

[dublinirish]

Hope these guys know they disgraced themselves, their family and their university. Looks like KVR is going to need that degree (assuming he got it). I think he was the only impact player who came back a lesser player than he left. Is he on a practice squad somewhere! I will say he at least made the effort to return unlike lazy Ishaq.

he's on the Bengals practice squad, takes alot of selfies in pre game, that's about it

 

[dad4aa]

Where did you see the list of sanctions that will be administered under next year's probation?

I believe he was talking about paying Wies and Kelly for a year that will not count in the record book

 

[ACamp1900]

What kills me is they're getting hit for being open and not covering it up... Ill bet my life that at least half our opponents from those years had much worse scandals during the same time period that never saw the light of day because well, just win baby.

 

[military_irish]

Can they just end the football game for a few years. Nothing good has happened for awhile. Maybe a break would be good.

 

[gkIrish]

Wonder if this overreaction by the NCAA has anything to do with Jenkins Editorial

 

[BobbyMac]

I believe he was talking about paying Wies and Kelly for a year that will not count in the record book

As written it would mean in the future.

 

[phork]

ND Ordered To Vacate Wins From '12 & '13

ND Ordered To Vacate Wins From '12 & '13

NCAA orders Notre Dame Fighting Irish to vacate wins from 2012, 2013 seasons

And yet North Carolina gets nothing... Incredible.

 

[wizards8507]

Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool.

 

[irishff1014]

He is in charge of the program, when those associated with it violate policy and create a black eye for ND on his watch, he falls on the sword.

It's not fair, but neither is life.

That's like saying your at fault for being a good friend and letting me borrow you car because mine in in the shop. I decided to got get hammered and kill 2 people in an accident. That's not your fault nor is it his.

If you want him fired for the record fine i am ok with that but not the cheating this he had 0 control over 0.

 

[BobbyMac]

That's like saying your at fault for being a good friend and letting me borrow you car because mine in in the shop. I decided to got get hammered and kill 2 people in an accident. That's not your fault nor is it his.

If you want him fired for the record fine i am ok with that but not the cheating this he had 0 control over 0.

Not a good example. I would be responsible. If I was under or uninsured, they'd be taking my $$$, house, assets.

 

[wizards8507]

I mean, didn't ND do EXACTLY what an institution should do when it discovers potential violations?

The issue isn't what ND did or didn't do. The issue is player eligibility.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

That's like saying your at fault for being a good friend and letting me borrow you car because mine in in the shop. I decided to got get hammered and kill 2 people in an accident. That's not your fault nor is it his.

If you want him fired for the record fine i am ok with that but not the cheating this he had 0 control over 0.

I don't want to dive into tinfoil hat territory, but do you not believe that other coaches have a better grip on what their players are/are not doing outside of the field? And IF something questionable is done, a proper internal protocol takes place to prevent anything bad from happening to the program? I don't want to suggest cover ups, but if the shoe fits...

I bet greater than 75% of student athletes/universities bend the rules, some even flat out break them...but all of them keep damage control as a top priority. I'm not condoning cheating or covering it up...but sometimes internal slaps on the wrist seem to suffice and in this case they had diarrhea of the mouth the second it happened, talking about vacating wins etc, in an effort to save face.....and look how it's turned out.

 

[wizards8507]

Wonder if this overreaction by the NCAA has anything to do with Jenkins Editorial

Honestly, I hope it does. And I hope ND finally nuts up and abandons the NCAA and starts the RKG league that Swarbrick teased awhile back.

 

[BobbyMac]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">No bowl ban and no scholarship reduction. <a href="https://t.co/r7qwOUpzkh">https://t.co/r7qwOUpzkh</a></p>— Mike Vorel (@mikevorel) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikevorel/status/801139531546247168">November 22, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Crazy Balki]

The issue isn't what ND did or didn't do. The issue is player eligibility.

Still is not grounds for vacating wins.

There has to be knowing involvement or egregious mishandling and lack of institutional control. The NCAA already deemed that was not the case, thus they have no leg to stand on.

And if I'm ND, and a situation like this takes place again, and the NCAA requests you to divulge information, you remind them of that time you complied with them and they tried to sanction you with no grounds, and then kindly tell them to go f*ck themselves.

 

[Luckylucci]

What kills me is they're getting hit for being open and not covering it up... Ill bet my life that at least half our opponents from those years had much worse scandals during the same time period that never saw the light of day because well, just win baby.

100%, but nobody will care about that.

 

[wizards8507]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">No bowl ban and no scholarship reduction. <a href="https://t.co/r7qwOUpzkh">https://t.co/r7qwOUpzkh</a></p>— Mike Vorel (@mikevorel) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikevorel/status/801139531546247168">November 22, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

They should have given us a one year bowl ban just to fuck with us.

 

[Irish#1]

What kills me is they're getting hit for being open and not covering it up... Ill bet my life that at least half our opponents from those years had much worse scandals during the same time period that never saw the light of day because well, just win baby.

You know that's happening all the time.

 

[Guest]

The NCAA is a useless organization. It just needs to die.

 

[BobbyMac]

 

[Legacy]

The issue isn't what ND did or didn't do. The issue is player eligibility.

The issue is exactly what ND did or did not know.

Consider the North Carolina academic fraud case which involved systemic fraudulent classes by their Athletic Department involving over 3,100 students over 18 years. That amounts to a Level 1 violation. The NCAA is treating the ND academic scandal as if it was similar.

North Carolina is arguing that theirs is a Level 2 or 3 scandal. UNC is also challenging the NCAA's authority and jurisdiction.

This goes through the Appeals process but is clearly arbitrary, not lack of institutional control issue, and fully cooperated with by ND.

If I am the NCAA, I do not want my Infractions process to crumble, confidence lost by member institutions in the fairness of the process, cooperation to be effectively discouraged and my authority to be questioned in a court should an institution have to resort to this outside of my Appeals process.

 

[Irish#1]

The issue is exactly what ND did or did not know.

Consider the North Carolina academic fraud case which involved systemic fraudulent classes by their Athletic Department involving over 3,100 students over 18 years. That amounts to a Level 1 violation. The NCAA is treating the ND academic scandal as if it was similar.

North Carolina is arguing that theirs is a Level 2 or 3 scandal. UNC is also challenging the NCAA's authority and jurisdiction.

This goes through the Appeals process but is clearly arbitrary, not lack of institutional control issue, and fully cooperated with by ND.

If I am the NCAA, I do not want my Infractions process to crumble, confidence lost by member institutions in the fairness of the process, cooperation to be effectively discouraged and my authority to be questioned in a court should an institution have to resort to this outside of my Appeals process.

Sounds like Goodell is running the NFL and the NCAA.

And of course since ESPN just lost their fight with ND, so you know they are going to play this up big time.

 

[koonja]

What I'm dealing with right now:

"I really feel for you Jake. It really hurts when the glowing reputation of a school that thinks so highly of themselves starts to realize they are no different than any other university, and should maybe join the Big 10 and get piss pounded by good teams every year instead of playing Boston College 4 times a year".

We R ND.

 

[IrishLax]

This blows.

Also Lax was on this a long time ago.

Yeah, I haven't actually had a chance to read the NCAA's statement or ND's response because I'm in the field today but here are my truncated thoughts:

1. Blame the NCAA all you want, this is ND's fault. The NCAA has shown time and time again they let the worst offenders off the hook (besides USC lol) who actually commit violations for a competitive advantage... but hammer anyone who tries to "do the right thing" being strict and self-reporting honestly. In this case, ND didn't just self-report they conducted a LUDICROUS investigation and review of electronic documents the kind of which has NEVER been done in the history of collegiate academics. This probe was not only unnecessary, it was illogical.

Scenario 1: Notre Dame discovers plagiarism by some students, gives them zeros on the assignments, moves on.

Scenario 2: Notre Dame discovers plagiarism by some students, launches a massive multi-layer investigation of any and all of their correspondence and assignments including digital forensics, also reviews documents handled by all associates, suspends all players with any transgressions uncovered, and reports a potential violation because one student also happened to have a part time job on the support staff.

Scenario 1 we never hear of any of this and life moves on. Scenario 2 we lose multiple starters for the 2014 season and vacate 21 wins. Bunch of idiots in charge.

2. The NCAA is a bunch of assholes. This is no different than Kim Dunbar where all it takes is one person that wants to "make an example" and this is what you get. If the girl is just another student there is no grounds for any sort of "violation"... but simply because of an extracurricular activity she chose to participate in, they can classify commonplace cheating as a "benefit."

3. This has been in the works for awhile. When the NCAA opens an investigation, they're like OSHA. They're going to find something. Oversight bodies want to smack you as hard as possible to feel good about themselves and justify their existence. For well over a year now (really since the beginning) I'd heard we were going to have to vacate these wins. I've posted as much here more than a few times. Notre Dame administrators were incredulous that they were getting hit with sanctions for "doing everything right"... shows how utterly stupid and incompetent they are. The very day after the Frozen Five thing first broke I wrote a post for a blog stating definitively how we were handling the situation as poorly as possible and everything I said (I think, haven't actually read the statements yet) has been proven 100% correct.