[NBA] vBook: Where does LeBron James sign this summer?

[greyhammer90]

Whats funny though is people are pissed, saying he doesnt want to compete, is chasing rings, etc.

WTF would signing with the Lakers, and two of the top 5 players (if Kawhi goes) be?

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... I think it's the taking the well-below market value 5.3 million for a one year stint with two of the top 5 players (no "ifs" about it like with the Lakers, Durant and Curry are already there) a Finals MVP and a Defensive player of the year on a team that has won 3 of the last 4 that rubs people the wrong way.

Even if Kawhi ended up on the Lakers, Boogie going there would only mean that they are likely contenders with Houston and GSW (assuming Boogie and Kawhi are healthy). Going to GSW is as close to "not competing" as you can get.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... I think it's the taking the well-below market value 5.3 million for a one year stint with two of the top 5 players (no "ifs" about it like with the Lakers, Durant and Curry are already there) a Finals MVP and a Defensive player of the year on a team that has won 3 of the last 4 that rubs people the wrong way.

Even if Kawhi ended up on the Lakers, Boogie going there would only mean that they are likely contenders with Houston and GSW (assuming Boogie and Kawhi are healthy). Going to GSW is as close to "not competing" as you can get.

The other whining/argument I keep seeing that cracks me up is "The NBA shouldn't allow this!!!!" Shouldn't allow what? An unrestricted free agent to choose to play for whoever he wants, for however much money he wants? Pretty sure the players might take offense to people treating them like property.

 

[greyhammer90]

The other whining/argument I keep seeing that cracks me up is "The NBA shouldn't allow this!!!!" Shouldn't allow what? An unrestricted free agent to choose to play for whoever he wants, for however much money he wants? Pretty sure the players might take offense to people treating them like property.

I will say it's funny to reminisce about the time Stern vetoed the Chris Paul to Lakers trade for "basketball reasons" because nowadays that potential team seems quaint.

I'll admit I'm salty about this outcome because I was hoping for a good fight in the West between Houston/GSW/Lakers(if they got Leonard) and it looked like we were going to finally have a real season of basketball where the outcome wasn't already known in July. Nevermind. GSW got gifted another all-star, nearly everyone else in the West is worse with Houston having lost Ariza, its very unlikely the Lakers will be anywhere close to primetime-ready, and the season outcome will never be in doubt.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I will say it's funny to reminisce about the time Stern vetoed the Chris Paul to Lakers trade for "basketball reasons" because nowadays that potential team seems quaint.

I'll admit I'm salty about this outcome because I was hoping for a good fight in the West between Houston/GSW/Lakers(if they got Leonard) and it looked like we were going to finally have a real season of basketball where the outcome wasn't already known in July. Nevermind. GSW got gifted another all-star, nearly everyone else in the West is worse with Houston having lost Ariza, and the season outcome will never be in doubt.

I'm salty Rondo went to LA. He's my NBA spirit animal, and it will be hard to root for him now. The silver lining is the 100% chance he chokes Lonzo until his face turns purple in the locker room at least once.

 

[greyhammer90]

I'm salty Rondo went to LA. He's my NBA spirit animal, and it will be hard to root for him now. The silver lining is the 100% chance he chokes Lonzo until his face turns purple in the locker room at least once.

Can't wait for him to get asked those cringey questions about how great Lebron is. He's going to lay into some reporter who does that and it's going to sustain me.

 

[Sea Turtle]

The other whining/argument I keep seeing that cracks me up is "The NBA shouldn't allow this!!!!" Shouldn't allow what? An unrestricted free agent to choose to play for whoever he wants, for however much money he wants? Pretty sure the players might take offense to people treating them like property.

I think people are just tired of seeing small market teams lose their stars to the Lakers and other glamour teams.

The NFL has the franchise tag to protect the Packers, Colts and other small market teams from this. Can you imagine how many players would have loved to jump to the Cowboys? Adrian Peterson and Randy Moss were begging to play for them for years. Earl Thomas is STILL pining for them.

 

[IrishLax]

The other whining/argument I keep seeing that cracks me up is "The NBA shouldn't allow this!!!!" Shouldn't allow what? An unrestricted free agent to choose to play for whoever he wants, for however much money he wants? Pretty sure the players might take offense to people treating them like property.

In my opinion, there has to be a middle ground. Every other league basically has a way of preventing super-stacking of rosters. The NBA is really hamstringing it's product with how it's set up... tons of incentive to tank, no realistic ability to compete for a title for 90%+ of the league before the first tip off of the season.

Baseball -- lots of team control + arbitration for players' young years to allow you reasonable security and encourage parity for small market teams. No hard salary cap but revenue sharing + competitive balance tax + compensatory draft picks.

NFL -- hard salary cap, compensatory draft picks that matter, tools like franchise tags.

NHL -- hard salary cap in a sport that requires significant depth makes it virtually impossible for a franchise to "stack" a roster.

The problem with the NBA is the artificially low salary cap that means you either have to tank and get lucky with high draft picks or hope that a superstar picks your team for below their free market value because you can only offer a "max" deal like every other squad. So the teams that already have talent + the teams that in desirable markets will always be the only ones able to compete long term.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

[NBA] vBook: Where does LeBron James sign this summer?

I think people are just tired of seeing small market teams lose their stars to the Lakers and other glamour teams.

The NFL has the franchise tag to protect the Packers, Colts and other small market teams from this. Can you imagine how many players would have loved to jump to the Cowboys? Adrian Peterson and Randy Moss were begging to play for them for years. Earl Thomas is STILL pining for them.

The Packers are a very poor example IMO. Sure, they are small market, but they have:

-one of the largest fan bases in all of American sports
-have won plenty of titles
-is perennially a preferred destination for many free agents looking to play for a SB contender
-drafts better, treats their players better, and is internally run better than just about any American sports organization


Ugggggh. Im going to take a shower now. Screw the Packers......


Now to your actual point: you are absolutely correct, but this has been the way of professional sports for a LONG time.

It has ALWAYS been extremely rare for a small market team to be able to consistently compete. Heres basically the teams from every league that fit the criteria of being from a non-top 20 market, and have had sustained success:

NBA- Spurs
NFL- Packers, Steelers
MLB- Cardinals
NHL- Oilers, Penguins

So basically 7 small market teams out of 122 have experienced more than small splashes of success. It isnt new they struggle to consistently compete.

 

[Sea Turtle]

The Packers are a very poor example IMO. Sure, they are small market, but they have:

-one of the largest fan bases in all of American sports
-have won plenty of titles
-is perennially a preferred destination for many free agents looking to play for a SB contender
-drafts better, treats their players better, and is internally run better than just about any American sports organization


Ugggggh. Im going to take a shower now. Screw the Packers......


Now to your actual point: you are absolutely correct, but this has been the way of professional sports for a LONG time.

It has ALWAYS been extremely rare for a small market team to be able to consistently compete. Heres basically the teams from every league that fit the criteria of being a from a non-top 20 market, and have had sustained success:

NBA- Spurs
NFL- Packers, Steelers
MLB- Cardinals
NHL- Oilers, Penguins

So basically 7 small market teams out of 122 have experienced more than small splashes of success. It isnt new they struggle to consistently compete.

Yes but the Packers were dead outside of Green Bay from about 1970 until Favre and Reggie White. Nobody was wearing Packer gear in the seventies and eighties and nineties until Favre blew up in 93 or 94.

Now imagine if Favre jumps to the cowboys when Aikman retired in the late nineties to play with Emmitt and Irvin. And then Moss or pick your great offensive players at the time decides to join to 'play for the star'.

Do the Packers continue their success and become a great franchise again with its current fan base? Maybe. And maybe not. That's what would have happened by NBA rules. The NFL is so popular because every team has a fair chance imho.

 

[zelezo vlk]

In my opinion, there has to be a middle ground. Every other league basically has a way of preventing super-stacking of rosters. The NBA is really hamstringing it's product with how it's set up... tons of incentive to tank, no realistic ability to compete for a title for 90%+ of the league before the first tip off of the season.
.

I see people rant and rave constantly pro these moves and even advocating anti-tanking methods that seem extreme (see The Wheel), but nobody addresses how these FA moves destroy parity. It's not that Boogie being on the Warriors makes them now a lock for the Finals as if they weren't before. But the rest of the League sees the W's team makeup and realizes there's no way to compete for a ring with the way the game is played and how stacked these rosters are.

Many fans are checking out because what's the point of watching a Finals sweep or even the first two rounds of the playoffs if we know damn near exactly who'll be in the Conference Finals if not Finals. I think the NBA might be taking notice since their salary cap actually went DOWN last year. Hopefully in the new CBA, the owners can pull something like making max contracts either a larger percent of the cap or making a hard salary cap. Clearly the repeater tax isn't punitive enough to dissuade these team ups.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[IrishSteelhead]

[NBA] vBook: Where does LeBron James sign this summer?

Yes but the Packers were dead outside of Green Bay from about 1970 until Favre and Reggie White. Nobody was wearing Packer gear in the seventies and eighties and nineties until Favre blew up in 93 or 94.

Now imagine if Favre jumps to the cowboys when Aikman retired in the late nineties to play with Emmitt and Irvin. And then Moss or pick your great offensive players at the time decides to join to 'play for the star'.

Do the Packers continue their success and become a great franchise again with its current fan base? Maybe. And maybe not. That's what would have happened by NBA rules. The NFL is so popular because every team has a fair chance imho.

Juggernaut dynasties are a double edged sword, but they are absolutely necessary for each league:


The good: I watched a lot of NBA when it was at its most unwatchable point to see the hated Lakers and Shaq dynasty lose. It was fun, because it gave me a rooting interest.

The bad: I watched a lot of NBA when it was at its most unwatchable point and saw the hated Lakers and Shaq dynasty win. It made
me mad the big market team was always winning against the Portlands/Sacramentos of the world.

Fast forward to 2003: Spurs dethrone the Lakers dynasty. Im ecstatic, but dont watch the actual Finals, because who gives a crap, its the Spurs and Nets. I have no rooting interest.


The NHL is by far the most competitively balanced league. It makes their playoffs exciting because any team can win a series against any other for the most part. The parity is ridiculous.

But that parity leaves room for fast food franchises like the Ducks, Hurricanes, etc. to win titles, which is cool, but comes at a price.

Nobody REALLY wants to see the Tampa Bay Lightning beat the Calgary Flames in a thrilling, 7 game series, but thats what you get when you have a balanced league.

The fans of those rinky dink teams enjoyed a once in a lifetime, comet type season that flew by and never came back, but it ultimately was a tree that fell in the forest, that nobody else was around to hear.

 

[Irish YJ]

I see people rant and rave constantly pro these moves and even advocating anti-tanking methods that seem extreme (see The Wheel), but nobody addresses how these FA moves destroy parity. It's not that Boogie being on the Warriors makes them now a lock for the Finals as if they weren't before. But the rest of the League sees the W's team makeup and realizes there's no way to compete for a ring with the way the game is played and how stacked these rosters are.

Many fans are checking out because what's the point of watching a Finals sweep or even the first two rounds of the playoffs if we know damn near exactly who'll be in the Conference Finals if not Finals. I think the NBA might be taking notice since their salary cap actually went DOWN last year. Hopefully in the new CBA, the owners can pull something like making max contracts either a larger percent of the cap or making a hard salary cap. Clearly the repeater tax isn't punitive enough to dissuade these team ups.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Yup. And when you have a team with 5 of it's members on the All Star team (3 starters / 2 reserves), there's really something bad going on with the cap system...

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I will say it's funny to reminisce about the time Stern vetoed the Chris Paul to Lakers trade for "basketball reasons" because nowadays that potential team seems quaint.

I'll admit I'm salty about this outcome because I was hoping for a good fight in the West between Houston/GSW/Lakers(if they got Leonard) and it looked like we were going to finally have a real season of basketball where the outcome wasn't already known in July. Nevermind. GSW got gifted another all-star, nearly everyone else in the West is worse with Houston having lost Ariza, its very unlikely the Lakers will be anywhere close to primetime-ready, and the season outcome will never be in doubt.

At some point, we need to tip our cap to GSW. Their front office is always looking for deals and no other team was pushing for Cousins. Call it a gift but it was work on their part to identify all the options and find what they needed.

And there is no guarantee that Cousins works out, he's much more of an ISO, slow offensive player. Let's see how he recovers from his achilles and how he adapts to a very different style of basketball on both sides of the court.

I hate the Lakers because of their historical success and big market brand so I'm just hoping they aren't able to compete for a championship yet because in another year, they'll probably add another 2-3 pieces.

 

[Irish YJ]

I think it's hilarious the Lakers added Lance Stephenson given his history with Lebron. I hate that the Pacers did not keep him. He definitely brought some grit and personality.

 

[greyhammer90]

At some point, we need to tip our cap to GSW. Their front office is always looking for deals and no other team was pushing for Cousins. Call it a gift but it was work on their part to identify all the options and find what they needed.

If you think that an all-star center double-double machine that can shoot 3s had nothing better than a 5 million MLE offer from one team (that juuust so happens to have four other all-stars) I have a bridge to sell you. There are several teams in the West that would have paid him double that for a year regardless of his injury just to keep him off of Golden State. Cousins' camp is trying to put out this narrative to do some PR damage control but it's obvious what this move was about: Getting a guaranteed ring.

 

[koonja]

If you think that an all-star center double-double machine that can shoot 3s had nothing better than a 5 million MLE offer from one team (that juuust so happens to have four other all-stars) I have a bridge to sell you. There are several teams in the West that would have paid him double that for a year regardless of his injury just to keep him off of Golden State. Cousins' camp is trying to put out this narrative to do some PR damage control but it's obvious what this move was about: Getting a guaranteed ring.

I don't know if that's true. It's certainly not being reported that way, but this is a 270 LB guy with an Achilles tear that likely won't be ready to play to start the season. Couple that with he's a headcase, I can see people passing.

Achilles tears on big guys end careers. Hell it killed one of the greatest mythological warrior of all time.

 

[greyhammer90]

I don't know if that's true. It's certainly not being reported that way, but this is a 270 LB guy with an Achilles tear that likely won't be ready to play to start the season. Couple that with he's a headcase, I can see people passing.

All I know is that Boogie himself has been telling reporters that he was shocked he didn't get an offer from the Pelicans. As in, he's claiming that he received no offer from them period. It appears based on the Pelicans' beat writers that the Pelicans were also shocked to hear that, since they are reporting that they offered him a larger deal than GSW did. Something smells like BS and when stuff like this happens, I tend to trust the large front office with a paper trail and longstanding relationships with local press.

Achilles tears on big guys end careers. Hell it killed one of the greatest mythological warriors of all time.

You need to get your Kobe crush under control.

 

[Irish YJ]

I don't know if that's true. It's certainly not being reported that way, but this is a 270 LB guy with an Achilles tear that likely won't be ready to play to start the season. Couple that with he's a headcase, I can see people passing.

Achilles tears on big guys end careers. Hell it killed one of the greatest mythological warrior of all time.

Durant, ring.
Boogie, ring.

GSW "how much will you pay for a ring"

 

[Irish YJ]

Cleveland is taking down the huge Lebron banner at this very moment lol.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

[NBA] vBook: Where does LeBron James sign this summer?

Some thoughts:

1. Boogie wont be back on a competitive basketball court until probably December/January at the earliest

2. He will spend his entire limited season getting re-acclimated to playing speed and getting his body confident enough to play like he did before injury

Translated: Boogie knows this season is a wash for him, and he wont physically or mentally be able to carry the load like hes used to, so he went to GS to chase a title while rehabbing.

I get why the Lebron Tots are mad, but 2/3 of his titles came the same way.

The best part of Lebron going to the Lakers is that for years, the Lebron Tots and Kobe Kids had a blood feud on message boards. Curious to see if they reconcile.

 

[koonja]

Some thoughts:

1. Boogie wont be back on a competitive basketball court until probably December/January at the earliest

2. He will spend his entire limited season getting re-acclimated to playing speed and getting his body confident enough to play like he did before injury

Translated: Boogie knows this season is a wash for him, and he wont physically or mentally be able to carry the load like hes used to, so he went to GS to chase a title while rehabbing.

Doesn't this give GW the right to sign him to best deal after this year though? Let's say he comes back in February but still looks awesome. They can then say we're going with Thompson + Green long term, Boogie + Thompson, or Boogie + Green.

They will resign 2 of the 3, and let the other walk away, all while almost guaranteeing another title during the "test" year.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Durant, ring.
Boogie, ring.

GSW "how much will you pay for a ring"

Will be fascinating to watch GSW front office moves the next two years. Thompson is signed through next year & KD, Iggy and Green are up after 2019-2020 season. If they intend to keep the team together, I have seen estimates that put their luxury tax bill on par with total salaries in 2019/2020 & $50M more than salaries in 2020/2021...over $400M in total roster cost. Yes, there is a new arena coming and they were already reportedly bringing in $350M per year in revenue today. Fun to watch.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Doesn't this give GW the right to sign him to best deal after this year though? Let's say he comes back in February but still looks awesome. They can then say we're going with Thompson + Green long term, Boogie + Thompson, or Boogie + Green.

They will resign 2 of the 3, and let the other walk away, all while almost guaranteeing another title during the "test" year.

Not sure of the exact nature, but think they would be limited to 20% increase in contract on him, so....$1M more per season? If he comes back healthy and looks 80% of what he was, he is gone the following season. Remember, teams that made idiotic contracts in 2016 spending spree will have $$ freed up starting next summer.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Doesn't this give GW the right to sign him to best deal after this year though? Let's say he comes back in February but still looks awesome. They can then say we're going with Thompson + Green long term, Boogie + Thompson, or Boogie + Green.



They will resign 2 of the 3, and let the other walk away, all while almost guaranteeing another title during the "test" year.

Hes a rental. Both parties know this Im sure.

 

[TDHeysus]

NBA big man with a lower body injury (hip, knee, ankle, Achilles, etc), the precedent is well established. He has 4 years tops, and he will be out of the league, or so useless that he can only occupy a spot on the bench.

This is nothing against Cousins, its just the natural order of things. see Andrew Bynum, Greg Oden, Yao Ming, going back to Bill Walton and before.....

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Tyreke Evans to Pacers

 

[Irish YJ]

Tyreke Evans to Pacers

nice

 

[Irish#1]

Tyreke Evans to Pacers

nice

Big pickup if..............

He can stay healthy and isn't a disruption in the locker room.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Big pickup if..............



He can stay healthy and isn't a disruption in the locker room.

The supposed health issues last year were IMO an attempt to mask the Grizzlies obvious tank job. He sat quite a few games down the stretch last season with mysterious injuries, that may not have been legit.

He also sat an entire week when they were trying to find a trade partner, and it was labeled as an injury.

 

[Irish YJ]

Big pickup if..............

He can stay healthy and isn't a disruption in the locker room.

I'm gonna be positive at this point. Evans is definitely an upgrade in shooting for the team.
McDermott is too. He can't play D, but he gives you a great 3pt threat that teams can't ignore which will create opportunity for VO and the others. Hate to see Lance go....