[NBA] vBook: Cavaliers at Warriors

[KPENN]

*Bet vbucks*

NBA Finals Game 1
Cleveland Cavaliers at Golden State Warriors
9:00 PM ET, May 31, 2018
TV Coverage: ABC

Oracle Arena
Oakland, CA

Favorite: Warriors -12.5
Over/Under: 218
Moneylines: Cavaliers +614 Warriors -900

Using scoresandodds.com

Good luck!

 

[loomis41973]

That's some good return on a Cavs bet.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

How many times do we hear:

"There goes that man"?

 

[loomis41973]

whodatman?

 

[greyhammer90]

How many times do we hear:

"There goes that man"?

Over/Under x1000

 

[BGIF]

#34 tripped the defender on that back screen. Clearly extended his leg for the trip.

 

[IrishLion]

I feel really bad for LeBron. Four bad calls in the 4th/OT, plus his own guys missing opportunities for game-winning shots.

50 points on the road in the finals, and it’s still not enough.

 

[NDRock]

I feel really bad for LeBron. Four bad calls in the 4th/OT, plus his own guys missing opportunities for game-winning shots.

50 points on the road in the finals, and it’s still not enough.

I’d feel worse if he wasn’t the defacto GM of the Cavs. All time great player, poor GM.

 

[greyhammer90]

I’d feel worse if he wasn’t the defacto GM of the Cavs. All time great player, poor GM.

Because Cleveland was always a flagship franchise before Lebron came in and screwed up their brilliant long term strategy of "inexplicably win the draft lottery every year and then squander it by drafting a mediocre talent."

Maybe Lebron isn't the best player for picking talent, but even if you are going to lay their entire roster at his feet for some reason, based on the Cavs franchise I wouldn't say he's much worse than the guys they hired to actually do it.

 

[Circa]

The fix has been in fellas. Do you guys really watch the NBA and think It's not rigged in some shotty way? It border's on straight silliness.

 

[loomis41973]

Great game...wish I coulda laid off the 6+

 

[Crazy Balki]

Because Cleveland was always a flagship franchise before Lebron came in and screwed up their brilliant long term strategy of "inexplicably win the draft lottery every year and then squander it by drafting a mediocre talent."

Maybe Lebron isn't the best player for picking talent, but even if you are going to lay their entire roster at his feet for some reason, based on the Cavs franchise I wouldn't say he's much worse than the guys they hired to actually do it.

You can make the same argument about the Bulls pre-Jordan.

The Cavs weren't anything to write home about in the 80's and 90's, but they had some quality squads and good years; granted few and far between.

This is where my sympathy for LeBron's "situation" dies. Yes, Cleveland has been poorly run, but A) he LEFT Cleveland to pursue rings elsewhere, in an organization that is well run. B) he returned to Cleveland when the talent was right for him to compete for titles. C) He drove the best talent that team has seen minus himself in the last 20 years out of Cleveland. D) The East has sucked so much ass since he was drafted that Cleveland being a dumpster fire organization is hardly an excuse.

 

[Woneone]

I just got home, here in Ohio from a Cavs viewing party, and laugh at the conspiracy talk. NBA officiating is what it is, bad. And yes, that was a block. You shouldn't have overturned the original call, that's crap, but it should have been a block to begin with.

LeBron James - His legacy? Compare his success as a player to MJ, builds a team like Matt Millen.

 

[Irish#1]

I feel really bad for LeBron. Four bad calls in the 4th/OT, plus his own guys missing opportunities for game-winning shots.

50 points on the road in the finals, and it’s still not enough.

No doubt he put on one heck of a performance, but I'm not sure about four bad calls. He did get his hand hit on the one drive to the basket, but the charging that was reversed was the right call. When James drives he's always pushing off with his forearm and never getting called for a foul.

To the goof who kept tweeting about Jordan scoring against soft defenses or going against the slow white guy, the Warriors defense in the lane parted like the red sea last night.

Smith blew the Cavs best chance to grab a win on the road. Green needs to keep his trap shut sometimes.

 

[koonja]

Sorry I can't embed, but this is was good:

https://twitter.com/charliekacz/status/1002415051402248192?s=19

 

[NDdomer2]

I’d feel worse if he wasn’t the defacto GM of the Cavs. All time great player, poor GM.

i dont know if you caught his interview after the game but he even said "my players" then corrected himself to say "my teammates"

 

[koonja]

JR is a moron, but I do think it's funny that everyone's blaming JR Smith for the loss, because that's an absolute joke and a classic response from the LeScuses crowd.

If he doesn't come out of no where to make a great unexpected offensive rebound, this is 100% a moot point.

And even though he did nothing with it, he absolutely prevented GSW from having 4.7 seconds to win the game by making a hell of a rebound.

Did he win the game? No. Did he prevent GSW from winning the game on the final possession? Maybe. Did he lose the game? Absolutely not.

 

[Rack Em]

The NBA sucks. Either make it full-on "Malice at the Palace" every night or make it real basketball because:

1) 24 second shot clock is too short to ever run an offense
2) Being able to move the ball 3/4 of the court on a TO is horseshit
3) Traveling doesn't exist
4) Continuation is stupid
5) The play is too physical
6) I'll stop here

 

[Rocket89]

51-8-8-60-91-43 while Koon and Balki are like, “Great rebounding by the Cavs!”

 

[greyhammer90]

JR is a moron, but I do think it's funny that everyone's blaming JR Smith for the loss, because that's an absolute joke and a classic response from the LeScuses crowd.

If he doesn't come out of no where to make a great unexpected offensive rebound, this is 100% a moot point.

And even though he did nothing with it, he absolutely prevented GSW from having 4.7 seconds to win the game by making a hell of a rebound.

Did he win the game? No. Did he prevent GSW from winning the game on the final possession? Maybe. Did he lose the game? Absolutely not.

It was just the most obvious thing in the final four minutes comedy of errors so everyone is jumping on it: The clean strip on Durant's drive that was called a shooting foul; the obvious arm grab on Lebron that was not called; the (at the very least) weird reviewed foul that you need a rulebook to know is possible, maybe shouldn't have been allowed to have been reviewed in the first place(?), wherein a group of highly-educated basketball minds all disagree on what the call should be; then the missed FT to take the lead; then the J.R. thing.

So yeah J.R. might be getting a raw deal by getting all of the blame, but it was definitely a colossal screw up on the biggest stage in the sport.

 

[NDdomer2]

The NBA sucks. Either make it full-on "Malice at the Palace" every night or make it real basketball because:

1) 24 second shot clock is too short to ever run an offense
2) Being able to move the ball 3/4 of the court on a TO is horseshit
3) Traveling doesn't exist
4) Continuation is stupid
5) The play is too physical
6) I'll stop here

as to the shot clock - college used to have like 40 seconds and the offenses werent any better. today's basketball at nearly all elite levels is pick and roll and find a match up. why do you need more time for that?

 

[NDdomer2]

It was just the most obvious thing in the final four minutes comedy of errors so everyone is jumping on it: The clean strip on Durant's drive that was called a shooting foul; the obvious arm grab on Lebron that was not called; the (at the very least) weird reviewed foul that you need a rulebook to know is possible, maybe shouldn't have been allowed to have been reviewed in the first place(?), wherein a group of highly-educated basketball minds all disagree on what the call should be; then the missed FT to take the lead; then the J.R. thing.

So yeah J.R. might be getting a raw deal by getting all of the blame, but it was definitely a colossal screw up on the biggest stage in the sport.

it also isnt helping JR that lebron reacted the way he did on the court. If he just puts his head down and goes back to the bench are people jumping all over JR to the same extent? we will never know but I feel like maybe not.

 

[greyhammer90]

it also isnt helping JR that lebron reacted the way he did on the court. If he just puts his head down and goes back to the bench are people jumping all over JR to the same extent? we will never know but I feel like maybe not.

Maybe, but I don't know any player that wouldn't have reacted that way. If MJ put up 46 points in a Finals game and his teammate got a rebound with 5 seconds left in a tie game and dribbled it out because he was confused about the score, I'm pretty sure MJ would've actually murdered him at half court. Same with Kobe. Same with Bird. Same with Magic. I'm pretty sure even Tim Duncan would've blinked furiously.

 

[NDdomer2]

Maybe, but I don't know any player that wouldn't have reacted that way. If MJ put up 46 points in a Finals game and his teammate got a rebound with 5 seconds left in a tie game and dribbled it out because he was confused about the score, I'm pretty sure MJ would've actually murdered him at half court. Same with Kobe. Same with Bird. Same with Magic. I'm pretty sure even Tim Duncan would've blinked furiously.

Lol no argument there,it was justified anger and a complete brain fart by JR. I just feel like in today's social media pile it on world, haf lebron went and backed at Hill for missing the free throw, that would be the conversation today instead.

As koon pointed out, at minimum JR 's rebound and derp was not worse case scenario.

 

[Ndaccountant]

JR is a moron, but I do think it's funny that everyone's blaming JR Smith for the loss, because that's an absolute joke and a classic response from the LeScuses crowd.

If he doesn't come out of no where to make a great unexpected offensive rebound, this is 100% a moot point.

And even though he did nothing with it, he absolutely prevented GSW from having 4.7 seconds to win the game by making a hell of a rebound.

Did he win the game? No. Did he prevent GSW from winning the game on the final possession? Maybe. Did he lose the game? Absolutely not.

For me, it's more about how blah JR has been during the playoffs. This is just the culmination of bad play. He is shooting just touch over 30% from the field vs 50% last year in the playoffs.

This guy is getting $14m a year to play 35+ mins and produce nothing. He doesn't have to score 15 a game, but be a threat man.

 

[Ndaccountant]

as to the shot clock - college used to have like 40 seconds and the offenses werent any better. today's basketball at nearly all elite levels is pick and roll and find a match up. why do you need more time for that?

I like it. The disparity between stars and everyone else is such that you could constantly rotate screens to get the match up if you had 35 sec. At least with 24, if the D can fight for 15 seconds it usually leads to a poor shot. Gives them a chance IMO.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

JR is a moron, but I do think it's funny that everyone's blaming JR Smith for the loss, because that's an absolute joke and a classic response from the LeScuses crowd.

If he doesn't come out of no where to make a great unexpected offensive rebound, this is 100% a moot point.

And even though he did nothing with it, he absolutely prevented GSW from having 4.7 seconds to win the game by making a hell of a rebound.

Did he win the game? No. Did he prevent GSW from winning the game on the final possession? Maybe. Did he lose the game? Absolutely not.

I doubt you'll reconsider but he didn't "come out of nowhere". He was on the line and the ball took a fortuitous bounce directly into his hands. He had a great chance to put it back up and either make it or get fouled by Durant. That's the play you have to make if you want to win in the finals.

He's one of the many reasons they lost but it's a big reason. There are only a handful of things you need to know in that situation but the score is probably one of those things.

You still think the Cavs have a great supporting cast? Lebron had 51-8-8 and he still couldn't win. Kevin Love even chipped in 21-13-1. The only other person to score double digits was JR Smith, with 10 points on 3-10 shooting.

Their roster is not even top 50% in the league.

 

[koonja]

I doubt you'll reconsider but he didn't "come out of nowhere". He was on the line and the ball took a fortuitous bounce directly into his hands. He had a great chance to put it back up and either make it or get fouled by Durant. That's the play you have to make if you want to win in the finals.

He's one of the many reasons they lost but it's a big reason. There are only a handful of things you need to know in that situation but the score is probably one of those things.

You still think the Cavs have a great supporting cast? Lebron had 51-8-8 and he still couldn't win. Kevin Love even chipped in 21-13-1. The only other person to score double digits was JR Smith, with 10 points on 3-10 shooting.

Their roster is not even top 50% in the league.

JR may have lost that game for just not being good, but no one on the Cavs was thinking "alright, if we miss JR Smith is going to grab the offensive rebound and put it back in for the win".

That's why it's not on him for that final sequence. He was lucky to even be in the position to be the scapegoat. 95% of the time that rebound goes to the defense.

Like Ndaccountant said, if you want to blame JR, blame him for being below average for 48 minutes. The rebound was an unexpected gift.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Because Cleveland was always a flagship franchise before Lebron came in and screwed up their brilliant long term strategy of "inexplicably win the draft lottery every year and then squander it by drafting a mediocre talent."

Maybe Lebron isn't the best player for picking talent, but even if you are going to lay their entire roster at his feet for some reason, based on the Cavs franchise I wouldn't say he's much worse than the guys they hired to actually do it.

Wait, when did Lebron become the Browns GM?

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

JR may have lost that game for just not being good, but no one on the Cavs was thinking "alright, if we miss JR Smith is going to grab the offensive rebound and put it back in for the win".

That's why it's not on him for that final sequence. He was lucky to even be in the position to be the scapegoat. 95% of the time that rebound goes to the defense.

Like Ndaccountant said, if you want to blame JR, blame him for being below average for 48 minutes. The rebound was an unexpected gift.

The first bolded point is pointless. No one ever knows what's going to happen in a game but they are judged by how they respond to the events that unfold. JR fvcked up bigly in the final 5 seconds when he had a chance to help his team win (despite his awful shooting all night).

As to your 2nd bolded point, fine. If ND is tied in the waning seconds of a game and our secondary intercepts the ball and we have blocks set-up for a return, you can't be angry if the player just runs out of bounds as time expires because he thought we were already winning.

Assume we lose in OT as well. You have no right to complain about it because that INT was an unexpected gift.