MIT Shooting

IrishinTN

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There is probable cause to search the houses when a terrorist is on the loose. They just couldn't charge anyone for anything that they find

If a) consent was freely given; and b) they see something criminal "in plain view," I'm pretty sure that the one giving consent could be prosecuted.

Even if there was no consent but they were in "hot pursuit" of someone and ran through someone's apartment, you could still get that person for any illegalities.

Someone correct if I'm wrong.

They don't really have probable cause to search just any house even with a suspect on the run. They could certainly ask for permission to search a house, but unless I just heard incorrectly they might not have been "searching" every house but rather just going door to door making sure everything is ok. The only way that they could get in without a warrant or permission is if there was some kind of exigent circumstance, such as hot pursuit or if there was a reasonable belief that some kind of harm would occur if they didn't enter the dwelling.

Also, as far as not being able to charge anyone for anything they could find, if any illicit activity is in plain sight and the cops entered the home legally, they could certainly be charged.

Interesting. Thanks for the explanations. I understand having to operate by our rights for sure and I also understand the public good sometimes overriding it. That is obviously a very difficult legal question and precedence. We don't get this very often, thank God.

The other thing is if they knock on someone's door but they say no because this whacko tells them to and he is wearing a suicide vest.
 

Zwidmanio

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However if they could even think he was in a house the judge would give them a warrant in a heart beat.

Well, the standard is a little higher than what an officer might "think," they would still need probable cause. However, I just don't see that issue coming up under present circumstances. I think the odds are that any entering of a dwelling in this case could probably be categorized under an exigent circumstance.
 

Zwidmanio

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Seems that there's an argument for possible harm to those inside...

Yeah, well, harm to persons, imminent loss of evidence would work so, as I was trying to explain briefly above, I doubt there would be any issue with law enforcement getting to the suspect in this matter.
 

Redbar

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The problem I have with this thinking is that it shows an us-or-them mentality. There's not much difference to me between Dzhokar Tsarnaev and Timothy McVeigh. By all appearances at this point, Tsarnaev has a lot more in common with McVeigh than he does al-Qaeda. Pending further investigation/information, both are American wackos who got ahold of a radical ideology and came to hate their country -- the ideologies were different, but it's the same sickness that drives a person to embrace radical ideology and engage in terrorism, whatever the ideology is. I really don't see why we keep talking about their race or ethnicity. I didn't read that Slate article that Pat seems to have found so objectionable, but if it's point was that it would be better if the bomber was a white guy so that millions of dark and olive-skinned people weren't subjected to racism by ignorant people, all other things being equal, I'm not sure I see what the fuss is about.



This does seem a little racist. I'll give pat the benefit of the doubt and say that the "lol" means that this was tongue in cheek, but subtract that lol and you have the very ignorance the writer of that Slate article was worried about, I'll wager. I mean, you said it, about Italians ... to look at me now, after a generation of intermarriage with Irish chicks, I look like a pale white guy, but half my family came from southern Italy, and my Italian ancestors looked at lot like the Tsarnaevs. Dzokhar Tsarnaev looks a lot like my younger brother, actually. So Pat sees these guys as some kind of bad weird other ... but we'll look at their kids as white. It shows the emptiness and bankruptcy of the thinking. These dudes are us, bro.

I mean really, they are from the CAUCASUS. Literally. If by 'white' you mean 'CAUCASIAN,' then they are white. IT'S WHERE WE GET THE EFFING WORD.

Are they pale skinned Scandinavians? No. But they aren't black, they aren't Arab, they aren't East Asian, they aren't South Asian. To whatever extent Greeks or Russians are white, these dudes are white.

To the first bolded- So very true. Extremist share many more traits than they realize regardless of their ideology. Moral of that story, try to avoid extreme viewpoints and fanaticism, it probably moves you closer to what it is you think you hate.

As to the second bolded- I don't think anyone could say it better than you just did, "It shows the emptiness and bankruptcy of the thinking."

Thanks for the post, great stuff.
 

WakeUpEchoes

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Thank you. This is the same suspect that said "I don't have one American friend because I don't understand them"

They're not Americans.

So wait, all people who have lived in the United States for 10 years, but are not from the U.S., are not Americans?
 

Rhode Irish

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You kept leaving out the cop in your rant about how they "could've killed more people"...Kept going with the 3 people...they killed 4.

You make yourself seem like a sympathizer. But if you say you're not, I believe you. I won't argue.

And I'm calling it like I see it. It's you and a few others that want this, with every fiber of your being, to just be a white guy from America.

Well it wasn't. So now people, including yourself, went on the campaign to hopefully dig up something to grasp onto (well they ARRREEEE citizens, he looks like a"white" guy)...in the meantime, anyone that mentions foreign terrorist, is a "racist" and only concerned with race. Ignoring the fact that it's much more likely that guys with foreign names and connections, with slightly darker skin and features, that just got done blowing up innocent people, are radicals that hate America.

We have different ways of thinking. I'd rather assume that he's not an american, and an enemy of the state from the get go, giving my country the benefit of the doubt. Then, if he's proven to be some crazy, redneck in a cabin somewhere? I'll be the first to chastize him.

Dude I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't want drag this argument out, but I never ever said I hoped the suspect was white. I have repeatedly said I don't care who or what the suspect is. The only point I've argued is that people were wrong to assume it was and/or want it to be a foreign terrorist (i.e., a Muslim). Even if that was true it would have still been wrong to assume it.

As far as the number 4 or 3, the person I was responding to specifically mentioned the three people that died at the marathon. I can't endlessly explain myself in each post. I have to trust that if you are interested in what I'm saying you'll read the whole conversation.
 

Cali_domer

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http://www.interpol.int/


Interpol has issued an alert

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Zwidmanio

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So wait, all people who have lived in the United States for 10 years, but are not from the U.S., are not Americans?

Well, yeah, they're barely white and on top of that, they're Muslim...

I hope I don't need a sarcastic font here. Actually, given the tone of some of the other posts here, I suppose this disclaimer is necessary.
 

irishpat183

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Dude I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't want drag this argument out, but I never ever said I hoped the suspect was white. I have repeatedly said I don't care who or what the suspect is. The only point I've argued is that people were wrong to assume it was and/or want it to be a foreign terrorist (i.e., a Muslim). Even if that was true it would have still been wrong to assume it.

As far as the number 4 or 3, the person I was responding to specifically mentioned the three people that died at the marathon. I can't endlessly explain myself in each post. I have to trust that if you are interested in what I'm saying you'll read the whole conversation.

I'm very interested. No ill will here. I simply disagree.

Given the fear in this country associated with terrorism, I don't think it's wrong to initially jump to a conclusion based on past experiences. And remember, you can't fly planes into building full of innocent people, the worst attack in our history, and then bitch when people point to you first when something goes down. Sorry, if you're a radical, it starts with you.

And the crap they found on his computer is disturbing...definatley a radical Islamist.
 

irishpat183

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He didn't see himself as an American so why should we?

Well, yeah, they're barely white and on top of that, they're Muslim...

I hope I don't need a sarcastic font here. Actually, given the tone of some of the other posts here, I suppose this disclaimer is necessary.

Z-man, see the above post.

If someone is over here, denying they're American, how are they American?
 

Zwidmanio

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I'm very interested. No ill will here. I simply disagree.

Given the fear in this country associated with terrorism, I don't think it's wrong to initially jump to a conclusion based on past experiences. And remember, you can't fly planes into building full of innocent people, the worst attack in our history, and then bitch when people point to you first when something goes down. Sorry, if you're a radical, it starts with you.

And the crap they found on his computer is disturbing...definatley a radical Islamist.

The problem with assumptions is that when you immediately assume that radical Arab terrorists were behind the bombing you could much more easily allow a couple Caucasian individuals slip right past you while you're busy tackling Saudi nationals. Arabs might have been behind the worst terrorist attack in our nation's history, but they're certainly not the only ones attacking this country.

What's wrong with trying to gather some evidence before leaping to conclusions? Why should we allow fear to cloud our judgment and to impair our ability to think through situations clearly? Isn't that the goal of terrorism? To create fear and terror?
 

irishpat183

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I would be surprised if he managed that but I wouldn't discount anything. From my understanding, the alert was intended, in part, to help U.S. authorities gather information related to the bombing.

Somebody has got to be hiding this kid... Even more reason to think they have some kind of backin and aren't loners.

And if he made it outta the country, there's no way he did it without help
 

irishpat183

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The problem with assumptions is that when you immediately assume that radical Arab terrorists were behind the bombing you could much more easily allow a couple Caucasian individuals slip right past you while you're busy tackling Saudi nationals. Arabs might have been behind the worst terrorist attack in our nation's history, but they're certainly not the only ones attacking this country.

What's wrong with trying to gather some evidence before leaping to conclusions? Why should we allow fear to cloud our judgment and to impair our ability to think through situations clearly? Isn't that the goal of terrorism? To create fear and terror?

I'm talking about the public. I'm sure law enforcement thinks more clearly
 

Cali_domer

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NewsBreaker ‏@NewsBreaker 47s
BREAKING: WCVB reports body found on a boat in a backyard on Franklin St in Watertown
 

Cali_domer

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NewsBreaker ‏@NewsBreaker 1m
BREAKING UPDATE: Request multiple EMS being requested -
 

Cali_domer

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ewsBreaker ‏@NewsBreaker 1m
DEVELOPING: FBI running towards the scene in Watertown. Shots fired, reported another shooting. - @TimWilliamsCBS


NewsBreaker ‏@NewsBreaker 1m
BREAKING: Rapid gun fire reported in Watertown after police were moving in to check boat that had blood on it
 

Cali_domer

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NewsBreaker ‏@NewsBreaker 54s
BREAKING: Dozens of emergency vehicles rushing, lights and sirens, to area where "rapid gunfire" has been heard in Watertown, MA
 

IrishLax

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So ridiculous... whether or not they are "American" is pure semantics. Both are immigrants and not naturally born US citizens.

Reporting that the suspect is down.
 
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