Miles speaks again

[BGIF]

Everything you wrote is true.

No, it's not.

Some of it is.

 

[Black Irish]

ND may not rip off an undefeated season and win the BCS, but I do not believe that the Irish are never going to get out of the valley of mediocrity they've been in since Holtz left. People like to grouse about what we don't have, but think about all we have going for us: committed fans, nationally televised games every week, big endowment. If the university can preserve the good traditions while modernizing, they can win.

 

[IrishLax]

Former QB Terry Hanratty just posted on 247....

It was a story of when he was going to commit to Michigan State but at the last minute got an offer from ND, had a meeting with Ara, and then called MSU to tell the coach there that he was going to Notre Dame. He said he was nervous to the point where his hands were shaking.

What did the MSU coach do? He reassured Hanratty, told him he was making a good decision, and that Notre Dame was a great school.

Compare that to the petulant child that is Les Miles. Makes me want to vomit when you think about the way college football has "evolved"... the SEC/Miami/FSU culture has completely removed class and respect from the game.

 

[Patulski]

The best athletes are in many cases located near SEC schools. Not exactly where the dome is.

During the Holtz era, how did ND get Pat Terrell from Memphis, Rodney Culver and Derek Brown from Florida, Mike Stonebreaker from Louisiana, Tony Rice from South Carolina etc. etc. etc? I'll tell you what changed: Lou Holtz was an experienced premier coach who knew how to win at the highest levels and knew how to recruit, and ND loosened the academic noose it had on the program. Then, Monk put the noose back on and to make matters even worse hired a bunch of inexperienced and incompetent Head Coach's. It has been a self inflicted wound.

In addition, we as a University put a premium on graduating student athletes, we also put a premium on honoring our scholarship commitment for four years regardless of injury or lack of development.

We don't do this for academic scholarships. They are reviewed annually according to financial need and academic performance. If ND cuts academic nonperformers from a scholarship to keep its academic ranking high, why shouldn't it cut athletic nonperformers?

 

[military_irish]

Miles still can not get over Kiel for some reason. Not as strong of a jab but still a subtle one.

Scott Rabalais@ScottRabalais
Miles on Kiel: To step into our stadium ... takes a different breed of cat. I wish Gunner all the best and I mean that very honestly. #LSU

 

[woolybug25]

Scott Rabalais@ScottRabalais
Miles on Kiel: To step into our stadium ... takes a different breed of cat. I wish Gunner all the best and I mean that very honestly. #LSU

This kind of cat?

 

[beryirish]

One that is comfortable in their own skin.....and has nice hair curls

 

[woolybug25]

He wants cats with chest

 

[beryirish]

^i lost it

 

[Cackalacky]

I have to admit I did not follow the whole Keil/LSU thing. I know the big stuff like Kiel did not report to LSU and the whole time he enrolling at ND etc., but for Miles to keep going on about this makes me think something about this stinks. Maybe it is just a case of Miles whining.... IDK

He does not seem like the sour grapes kind of guy. Say what you want about him as a coach but I have never heard of him doing stuff like this before. Really, when has a coach ever done stuff like this to a kid that publicly?

I am by no means defending Miles BTW. Just curious on yalls thoughts.

 

[DomeLover3]

Can we expect anything more from a "Michigan Man"?

 

[dshans]

He wants cats with chest]

Isn't that pic more suited to The Gentleman's Club?

 

[Me2SouthBend]

It's insulting to a douche when you call it a Miles.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

This is clearly building into a giant karmic gut punch for Miles.

ND will meet LSU in a bowl sometime in the next 4-5 years. After leading the Irish to victory, Gunner will exclaim: "It just feels really good to get that off my chest."

Fin.

 

[yankeeND]

In the next couple of years Gunner is going to be putting up huge numbers! In Kelly's offense he is going to have an opportunity to really sling it. The personnel is starting to take shape and with development I fully expect to see Gunner in NY waiting on the Heisman announcement. I think Les keeps saying these things because he knows Gunner will be there. Don't think for one second that this isn't a cop out. Walking into Notre Dame stadium as the starting QB takes balls, not "the chest".

 

[timm3117]

I'm tired of hearing about this huge talent gap. Its just another excuse for poor management.

Since 2006 if you average our recuiting class we are at 11.8, LSU is at 7.7. "per rivals" So in that time we have averaged a recruit class very close to LSU's. Our problem isnt getting recruits, its developing talents, and using talent properly. If you are getting top 20 talent, and cant finish in the top 25, there is a problem in the system.

Just a side note Miles can kiss my ***, LSU has had a nice little run, but they have 3 NC's and had a 45 year title drought that just ended a few years back.

 

[phork]

I'm tired of hearing about this huge talent gap. Its just another excuse for poor management.

Since 2006 if you average our recuiting class we are at 11.8, LSU is at 7.7. "per rivals" So in that time we have averaged a recruit class very close to LSU's. Our problem isnt getting recruits, its developing talents, and using talent properly. If you are getting top 20 talent, and cant finish in the top 25, there is a problem in the system.

Just a side note Miles can kiss my ***, LSU has had a nice little run, but they have 3 NC's and had a 45 year title drought that just ended a few years back.

You left out the part where he has also recruited the equivalent of atleast 1 extra class over us.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm tired of hearing about this huge talent gap. Its just another excuse for poor management.

Since 2006 if you average our recuiting class we are at 11.8, LSU is at 7.7. "per rivals" So in that time we have averaged a recruit class very close to LSU's. Our problem isnt getting recruits, its developing talents, and using talent properly. If you are getting top 20 talent, and cant finish in the top 25, there is a problem in the system.

Just a side note Miles can kiss my ***, LSU has had a nice little run, but they have 3 NC's and had a 45 year title drought that just ended a few years back.

As Phork alluded to, Notre Dame does not have the luxury of oversigning our classes. If a 4/5 star kid doesn't work out, he still stays for his entire college career (see Deion Walker and Tyler Stockton). In the SEC, they push them off of their team and sign another class. Look at how big each of their classes are every year. I'm not a genius, but last time I checked 24+24+26+25 does not equal 85 scholarships. Not to mention the "unranked" Juco gangsters they can add/drop at will. Our coaching staff has a much more difficult job. Notre Dame needs top ten classes every year, and have the majority of them turn out, just to have close to comparable talent level to SEC schools.

I've said before, and i'll say it again, every school should have to offer 4 year scholarships. Not what essentially amounts to a year by year scholarship.

 

[timm3117]

As Phork alluded to, Notre Dame does not have the luxury of oversigning our classes. If a 4/5 star kid doesn't work out, he still stays for his entire college career (see Deion Walker and Tyler Stockton). In the SEC, they push them off of their team and sign another class. Look at how big each of their classes are every year. I'm not a genius, but last time I checked 24+24+26+25 does not equal 85 scholarships. Not to mention the "unranked" Juco gangsters they can add/drop at will. Our coaching staff has a much more difficult job. Notre Dame needs top ten classes every year, and have the majority of them turn out, just to have close to comparable talent level to SEC schools.

I've said before, and i'll say it again, every school should have to offer 4 year scholarships. Not what essentially amounts to a year by year scholarship.

My point wasn't just about recruiting. I understand LSU and schools like them have advantages, but our problem is deeper then talent, we have to change the football culture at ND. Its just like a company, if you hire a CEO who believes in the company but everyone else sits around making excuses for the failure, then that CEO will fail. Notre Dame may not be getting SEC talent, but we have talent, top 25 talent, yet we haven't played at Top 25 level since Charles 2nd year. Something is broken.

 

[woolybug25]

My point wasn't just about recruiting. I understand LSU and schools like them have advantages, but our problem is deeper then talent, we have to change the football culture at ND. Its just like a company, if you hire a CEO who believes in the company but everyone else sits around making excuses for the failure, then that CEO will fail. Notre Dame may not be getting SEC talent, but we have talent, top 25 talent, yet we haven't played at Top 25 level since Charles 2nd year. Something is broken.

While I agree with this premise and feel that this has been Kelly's biggest challenge with Notre Dame, how is your first point not about recruiting?

I'm tired of hearing about this huge talent gap. Its just another excuse for poor management.

Since 2006 if you average our recuiting class we are at 11.8, LSU is at 7.7. "per rivals" So in that time we have averaged a recruit class very close to LSU's.

Your original point stated that there hasn't been this "talent gap" that people talk about. I am telling you that there certainly has been one. The depth desparancy has been noticeable and will always be a concern for our team as long as other teams are oversigning. Until that practice stops, we have to hit on the majority of our top recruits. It is a lot harder for Notre Dame to overcome a blue chip recruit flopping than it is for an SEC team.

 

[timm3117]

While I agree with this premise and feel that this has been Kelly's biggest challenge with Notre Dame, how is your first point not about recruiting?



Your original point stated that there hasn't been this "talent gap" that people talk about. I am telling you that there certainly has been one. The depth desparancy has been noticeable and will always be a concern for our team as long as other teams are oversigning. Until that practice stops, we have to hit on the majority of our top recruits. It is a lot harder for Notre Dame to overcome a blue chip recruit flopping than it is for an SEC team.

Well I agree there is a talent gap. My arguement was that although there is a gap, Its not as huge as some like to think. Some guys like to act like we havent been successful because of recruiting. Like we have been bringing in the 35th class. Where in real life we have had top 15 talent, but haven't finished in the top 15 in years. Which means our problems the last 20 years weren't just talent, it was much deeper. Although I do believe we are heading back in the right direction, and I believe when we can start winning 9+ games a season you'll see our recruiting ranking get much better.

As for the SEC, they will always have an advantage, I mean you can play football at Georgia with an 800 on the SAT. An 800 wont even get you on the ND campus. The good news is a Smart, Well Coached, Disciplined team, can compete with a more talented team, Just watch Boise St vs Uga, Boise St vs Oregon, or Boise St vs Oklahoma.

 

[phork]

Well I agree there is a talent gap. My arguement was that although there is a gap, Its not as huge as some like to think. Some guys like to act like we havent been successful because of recruiting. Like we have been bringing in the 35th class. Where in real life we have had top 15 talent, but haven't finished in the top 15 in years. Which means our problems the last 20 years weren't just talent, it was much deeper. Although I do believe we are heading back in the right direction, and I believe when we can start winning 9+ games a season you'll see our recruiting ranking get much better.

As for the SEC, they will always have an advantage, I mean you can play football at Georgia with an 800 on the SAT. An 800 wont even get you on the ND campus. The good news is a Smart, Well Coached, Disciplined team, can compete with a more talented team, Just watch Boise St vs Uga, Boise St vs Oregon, or Boise St vs Oklahoma.

I don't think you totally understand the talent gap. While we have our token 5 star kids, they have them everywhere. Their 2 deep is 4 star, 3 deep is 4 star...

 

[General Colon Bowel]

I don't think you totally understand the talent gap. While we have our token 5 star kids, they have them everywhere. Their 2 deep is 4 star, 3 deep is 4 star...

A study of the team's depth charts (according to rivals) would seem to indicate that it's not so much about depth as it is about big time 5* guys.
ND and LSU both have 25 4*s in their depth chart.
The difference is we have 3 5*s and LSU has 7, every one being a starter.
Which essentially means we have 4 positions on the field where we're starting 3* players where LSU is starting 5* players. That's the difference between going 8-5 and 13-1.

 

[ACamp1900]

remember also that when LSU has a key transfer or injury/lack of depth they can just jump on the nearest capable JUCO... that can make a huge difference over four years in many ways.

 

[mgriff]

remember also that when LSU has a key transfer or injury/lack of depth they can just jump on the nearest capable JUCO... that can make a huge difference over four years in many ways.

Bam, this all the way. If they have a poor developmental cycle at a position as in many kids don't pan out, or a rash of injuries, they can plug and play a JUCO transfer. They have developed physically and are seasoned in the college game. It's a huuuuuuuge advantage that can't be stated enough. If we get injuries or fall short or don't develop properly, we're ****ed. Wouldn't it be great to go get some corners to plug and play in this team, or some seasoned wide outs? LSU can plug the problems we have now, we can't.

 

[timm3117]

I don't think you totally understand the talent gap. While we have our token 5 star kids, they have them everywhere. Their 2 deep is 4 star, 3 deep is 4 star...

I do understand, but the reason they have their 5 star guys is because they win football games! LSU wasnt grabbing up 5 star guys until Nick Saban changed that program, into a winning program. They went 45 years without a title, the same thing USC did under Pete Carroll. USC was "done",they went like 23 years without a title, I know USC fans who were saying the same things guys on this board are saying. Its all excuses, If we win, we will get more talent.

And since 2006 we have had 11token 5 star recruits while LSU has had 14. We have done a poor job developing players, since the Davie era.

 

[ACamp1900]

Bam, this all the way. If they have a poor developmental cycle at a position as in many kids don't pan out, or a rash of injuries, they can plug and play a JUCO transfer. They have developed physically and are seasoned in the college game. It's a huuuuuuuge advantage that can't be stated enough. If we get injuries or fall short or don't develop properly, we're ****ed. Wouldn't it be great to go get some corners to plug and play in this team, or some seasoned wide outs? LSU can plug the problems we have now, we can't.

YES. Just look at our quality dpeth in the secondary... JUCOs would make a huge difference... anyway

 

[Crazy Balki]

Yep, it isn't close and with what happened to us last year in recruiting it really hurts us more than any other school. LSU can go grab someone from JC(If they have down year in recruiting) to plug holes that they may have.

Les is a jack off but they do have superior talent...

Uhh...You do realize that ND finished AHEAD of LSU in recruiting last year according to 247sports.com, which is the most credible recruiting site IMO. And recruiting sites do include JUCO transfers, but they DON'T include regular transfers, such as Amir Carlisle.

 

[Crazy Balki]

YES. Just look at our quality dpeth in the secondary... JUCOs would make a huge difference... anyway

Most schools nowadays are limited in the number of JUCO players they can accept, and teams in the SEC screw themselves over now because they over-sign and that leaves them with no room to accept JUCO players. I'd love to have a couple JUCO DB's, but not only are JUCO players generally not academically eligible, they generally don't always pan out like Cam Newton and Nick Fairley do. It's like drafting a player that played at Montana State or some Div. II nowhere school. Sure, he could have a ton of athleticism, but who knows how much that is because he was playing against inferior competition. At the most, SEC schools take 1 or 2 JUCO players. Besides, I'd take a Junior CB who was on the practice squad for Notre Dame over a incoming Junior CB who started at Georgia Military College, because I know that even though that ND CB didn't play much or at all on Saturdays, you know what he's got going up against very good receivers.

 

[woolybug25]

I do understand, but the reason they have their 5 star guys is because they win football games! LSU wasnt grabbing up 5 star guys until Nick Saban changed that program, into a winning program. They went 45 years without a title, the same thing USC did under Pete Carroll. USC was "done",they went like 23 years without a title, I know USC fans who were saying the same things guys on this board are saying. Its all excuses, If we win, we will get more talent.

And since 2006 we have had 11token 5 star recruits while LSU has had 14. We have done a poor job developing players, since the Davie era.

In Saban's first year he essentially cut a bunch of players and signed class with over 30 players. You really aren't getting my point, I agree that Notre Dame does a great job of signing just as talented of classes as a lot of other schools. That being said, Our players ALL have to work out. When was the last time Notre Dame signed a JUCO or even a 30 player class? It doesn't happen because we graduate our players and honor a 4 year commitment to our players.

It's not just about the 5star blue chip players that a team signs, it is how deep a team can be in gameday talent, and the rest of college football (not just the SEC) have advantages in that respect over Notre Dame. Plus, the 3star guys the rest of college football are signing are on year to year contracts depending on their play essentially. At Notre Dame, if you miss on a 3star kid, you have to let it play out for four years. At Bama for instance, that kid is getting pushed out immediately.