Mike Gundy Wears an OAN Shirt

[TorontoGold]

I think the push back against OAN (imo it's justified) is that they are complicit in the craziness that they foster. By not calling it out or reprimanding the members that promote inflammatory/racist stuff they become complicit in it. The Pizzagate stuff, Seth Rich, and ties to Sputnik (Russian state media) are past the comparison to MSNBC. Maddow is a certified kook but nothing she's peddled can measure up to the insanity that OAN peddles on a regular basis.

 

[zelezo vlk]

His ideas and thinking go far beyond various political movements that associated with some of his ideas. He played a seminal role in founding the fields of sociology and economics. Again he is one of the most important thinkers in human history. He’s right there with Aristotle, Socrates, Smith etc...equating him to the likes of. Sean Hannity is peak stupidity.

Marx has undoubtedly influenced one of the world's greatest living philosophers in Alasdair MacIntyre, who just so happens to be a practicing Catholic and an emeritus professor/senior research fellow at...the University of Notre Dame. One can be vehemently opposed to communism while also still taking Marx's critiques of capital at face value.

 

[ACamp1900]

My point is this: A college kid read about what's going on around the country, probably read about the supportive statements/march attendance from other coaches around the country, and then saw a picture of his silent on the issue coach doing a leisure activity and wearing a shirt of a news network that is, by all accounts, a total conspiracy theorist rag that falsely claims that the marchers are setting up bombs at memorials and that the now infamous knocked-over elderly man was attempting to scramble police radio waves.

If you equate a kid seeing that picture in the context of the last two weeks and publicly saying "I don't want to be a part of his organization" with someone saying "Anyone who wears a conservative t shirt is racist", you're building a strawman.

I was responding directly to Dublin stating the shirt itself is racist. Lots of strawmans being built apparently.

 

[ACamp1900]

I think the push back against OAN (imo it's justified) is that they are complicit in the craziness that they foster. By not calling it out or reprimanding the members that promote inflammatory/racist stuff they become complicit in it. The Pizzagate stuff, Seth Rich, and ties to Sputnik (Russian state media) are past the comparison to MSNBC. Maddow is a certified kook but nothing she's peddled can measure up to the insanity that OAN peddles on a regular basis.

I think your last sentence is where the majority of the divide is in this thread,...

 

[PANDFAN]

coaching carousel 2019 has become the new politics thread

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/7JC6PQoeXMgo16fQFK" width="480" height="480" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/raydonovan-season-6-ray-donovan-donova-7JC6PQoeXMgo16fQFK">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[dublinirish]

I think your last sentence is where the majority of the divide is in this thread,...

So what you are saying is OAN's content is completely fine and comparable to MSNBC or CNN and promoting OAN in any form should not a problem for anyone?

 

[greyhammer90]

I was responding directly to Dublin stating the shirt itself is racist. Lots of strawmans being built apparently.

It doesn't feel that's all you were saying in the larger context of the conversation, as the original question posed that Dublin was responding to was similarly reductionist, but if that's truly all you were saying with your comment then I agree that the act of wearing a conservative t shirt is not inherently racist. We'll file that take in the "cold" category.

 

[irishff1014]

I've been showing people that picture of Gundy and asking them why this triggered people and nobody has guessed right so far. Most people don't know OAN. This one was absolutely ridiculous.

I didn’t know what it was until this whole deal came about. I looked it and was oh ok. And I know some people that are all right of the isle and we talk about politics and never heard them mention this group.

 

[Irish2155]

Who dafaq is Seaturtle????

I saw him not too long ago in FL.

[/IMG]

 

[Legacy]

Originally Posted by ACamp1900 View Post

Who dafaq is Seaturtle????

I saw him not too long ago in FL.

[/IMG]

Who are the two on either side?

 

[TorontoGold]

Originally Posted by ACamp1900 View Post




Who are the two on either side?

I think you know who the IE Davy Jones is (think collusion delusion...)

Does this make us Will and Jack?

 

[Wild Bill]

So what you are saying is OAN's content is completely fine and comparable to MSNBC or CNN and promoting OAN in any form should not a problem for anyone?

Yes.

 

[NDRock]

They just torn down a 3 foot by 3 foot plaque in our county because the local NAACP was offered and they protested til they got the there way. 2 day later the city its located is changing a street name from. Broad St to BLM BLVD. It just goes to show you how stupid this world and people are right now.

What was the plaque?

 

[BeauBenken]

What was the plaque?

Also they named a street BLM Blvd or MLK Jr. Blvd? Haven't heard of anyone trying to name streets after Black Lives Matter but almost any city in the country with a significant black population has a Martin Luther King Jr Blvd.


I should point out that I realize that IrishFF put BLM, but I am just wondering if it was a typo or he misread.

 

[ulukinatme]

I don't watch OAN, in fact I've never heard of it till now. I don't watch Fox News, CNN, or any other news related outlets other than Reuters. That said, Gundy shouldn't have been bullied into ditching the shirt and providing an apology. If he wants to wear a shirt that represents a crazy conspiracy group, that should be his right to do so under the 1st amendment. Instead we're finding that free speech is dead, public opinion trumps the law now. Speaking of which, suppressing opinion is a rather fascist move, I thought that was supposed to be Trump's territory?

 

[fightingirish26]

I don't watch OAN, in fact I've never heard of it till now. I don't watch Fox News, CNN, or any other news related outlets other than Reuters. That said, Gundy shouldn't have been bullied into ditching the shirt and providing an apology. If he wants to wear a shirt that represents a crazy conspiracy group, that should be his right to do so under the 1st amendment. Instead we're finding that free speech is dead, public opinion trumps the law now. Speaking of which, suppressing opinion is a rather fascist move, I thought that was supposed to be Trump's territory?

First of all, Gundy didn't apologize at all, in fact the only one who ever said sorry was Hubbard, amazingly.

Next, do you even know what free speech is? He can wear that shirt, and voice his support for that channel, without fearing imprisonment. It doesn't guarantee that his players have to support him, no questions asked.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

That's great for them... but what some people *might* have done in the past doesn't really have anything to do with this, because...



Hubbard DID speak up, and now Gundy is on the hook for listening to his players and working with them on figuring out how everyone should proceed. Maybe that means Gundy listens to his players' concerns, maybe it means the players learn to keep things in house and appreciate their privilege as college athletes.

Idk what form the 'change' is supposed to take, but the best player on the team spoke up and started a process of change. He spoke up for his beliefs and created action.

Isn't that what we're supposed to be looking for?

Even if it's ridiculous to get mad at a tshirt (it is!)... I can understand WHY he was upset, and I respect him for using his (limited) power to force the issue.

And to be 100% honest, if it were a different program, I'd be the first to say "whoa dude that's crazy, don't upset the cart." But the fact is that Gundy has always been an overreactive dunce who puts his foot in his mouth about a lot of things (and I don't mean that in terms of politics, I mean it in terms of everything), so it's not surprising to me that someone finally turned the tables on him.

Dude...you completely missed the most important point. Too many of these kids, especially entitled D1 athletes, think by taking to social media they're changing the world and they aren't. If you have an issue with a teammate or coach, you handle it internally. Gundy didn't do anything to Hubbard. He wasn't discriminated against or treated poorly like Iowa players were by Doyle.

He was triggered by a Tshirt, threw a tantrum on Twitter, and forced the university to produce a fake video of Gundy being sorry. He could've avoided a huge PR disaster for HIS coach and HIS school but he couldn't be stopped by his feelings.

This whole thing could have been avoided if he had a face to face sit down with Gundy. I can guarantee you schools all over the country have already started these conversations and meetings and "processes of change" without the entire debacle OKST has gone through in the past 48 hours.

What a crock of shit. If this kid's feelings are hurt by a Tshirt, he's in for a rough stretch in the NFL...

 

[greyhammer90]

I don't watch OAN, in fact I've never heard of it till now. I don't watch Fox News, CNN, or any other news related outlets other than Reuters. That said, Gundy shouldn't have been bullied into ditching the shirt and providing an apology. If he wants to wear a shirt that represents a crazy conspiracy group, that should be his right to do so under the 1st amendment. Instead we're finding that free speech is dead, public opinion trumps the law now. Speaking of which, suppressing opinion is a rather fascist move, I thought that was supposed to be Trump's territory?

The first amendment protects you from the Government censoring your speech, not from other citizens saying "I don't like you." Gundy exercised his speech by supporting an extreme right outlet, and the people he relies on professionally are 18 year old Democrat leaning black guys who exercised their free speech by telling him they didn't want to play for him anymore. Gundy is backing off his opinion because it makes financial sense for him to do that. There's no suppression, unless you consider "consequences of being unpopular because people don't agree with you" suppression.

And I agree with you, he should've stuck to his guns. He'd be fired when no player/recruit wanted to play for him, but he'd have principals. Now he's not just tone deaf, but seems spineless.

 

[Irish YJ]

His ideas and thinking go far beyond various political movements that associated with some of his ideas. He played a seminal role in founding the fields of sociology and economics. Again he is one of the most important thinkers in human history. He’s right there with Aristotle, Socrates, Smith etc...equating him to the likes of. Sean Hannity is peak stupidity.

If you want to get into some pedantic argument about “success”, China since 1980 lifted almost a billion people out of poverty and has become one of the global economic engines. Currently the US is in complete meltdown mode and the capitalist economic model we have championed is destroying the entire planet and has destroyed numerous local economies in places like Flint and Youngstown. Cuba has a fantastic medical system given the size of the economy and the size of the country and Cubans have a longer life expectancy than those in the US. It seems there might be some lessons on “success” and failure to be found in Marx’s works.

I’m not championing a Marxist system per se but I’d recommend re-reading Das Capital.

It's not pedantic, it's simple fact. Tons of failure through history. China's successful war on poverty has been more about their un-Marxist behaviors on a global scale, than their internal Marxist behavior. Without their un-Marxist external behavior, they would have no $ to spend internally. And many question the sustainability of China's growth and economic model. And that's not even addressing that Marxism has mostly been a tool of authoritarian dictators to exploit. That's a whole other topic you can go down the rabbit hole on.

But yes, I agree he is a great "thinker" which has impacted many in the world. The overwhelming impact however has been negative. I get the Utopian fantasy aspects, but it's simply not reality. Only technology can bring about a successful Marxist end state, but that's not really Marxism.

As far as re-reading Marx, no thanks. I did several papers on him in college, and had a few profs that were outward Marxist. Those core classes did little to prepare me for the realities of today, and honestly their leans and political views were counterproductive in those specific classes. It certainly wasn't what I thought I was paying for, nor was material to the class.

BTW, I'm OK with some socialistic aspects, but Marxism as a whole, nah.

 

[ulukinatme]

The first amendment protects you from the Government censoring your speech, not from other citizens saying "I don't like you." Gundy exercised his speech by supporting an extreme right outlet, and the people he relies on professionally are 18 year old Democrat leaning black guys who exercised their free speech by telling him they didn't want to play for him anymore. Gundy is backing off his opinion because it makes financial sense for him to do that. There's no suppression, unless you consider "consequences of being unpopular because people don't agree with you" suppression.

And I agree with you, he should've stuck to his guns. He'd be fired when no player/recruit wanted to play for him, but he'd have principals. Now he's not just tone deaf, but seems spineless.

That's my point, he may have the freedom from legal repercussions, but the court of public opinion today is far more damning and there's no trial. People today are bullied into thinking a certain way, and if you don't agree to the opposing side's demands you get #canceled and risk losing your job and jeopardizing your career (among other things like financial ruin, being ostracized in public, personal attacks, being doxed, etc). It's a scary time, I worry for the future of my kids.

 

[greyhammer90]

That's my point, he may have the freedom from legal repercussions, but the court of public opinion today is far more damning and there's no trial. People today are bullied into thinking a certain way, and if you don't agree to the opposing side's demands you get #canceled and risk losing your job and jeopardizing your career (among other things like financial ruin, being ostracized in public, personal attacks, being doxed, etc). It's a scary time, I worry for the future of my kids.

That's the price of freedom of speech. "Marketplace of ideas" and all that. You have to be willing to stick your nuts out there and get swatted. Lots of people weren't appreciated for sharing their perspectives in the past but did it anyway, on both the left and the right, at great personal cost. Fuckin MLK was getting death threats directly from the FBI. That's censorship through force.

I'm not going to lose sleep over the fact that a football coach feels pressured to capitulate to the subset of the population that he is paid a literal fortune to identify with. I could do that, and I could do it without being total agreement with them on every point and without looking like a slime ball. Probably couldn't grow the mullet though.

 

[Circa]

soooo Mike Gundy photographed wearing a OAN t-shirt... thats a look

https://www.12up.com/posts/oklahoma...roversial-one-america-news-shirt-01eawe0p9cw8


<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mike Gundy went fishing on Lake Texoma donning an OAN t-shirt <a href="https://t.co/gq9c2I6HGl">pic.twitter.com/gq9c2I6HGl</a></p>— Kyle Boone @ �� (@Kyle__Boone) <a href="https://twitter.com/Kyle__Boone/status/1272553163766317061?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

I wonder why a legitimate coach that has a good reputation for telling It how it is, Is all of a sudden saying something that became wrong and disagreeable... Recently?

Wonder If the mainstream media has a spin on the story? I wonder If the people like Les Moonves think old white guys are evil????

 

[ulukinatme]

That's the price of freedom of speech. "Marketplace of ideas" and all that. You have to be willing to stick your nuts out there and get swatted. Lots of people weren't appreciated for sharing their perspectives in the past but did it anyway, on both the left and the right, at great personal cost. Fuckin MLK was getting death threats directly from the FBI. That's censorship through force.

I'm not going to lose sleep over the fact that a football coach feels pressured to capitulate to the subset of the population that he is paid a literal fortune to identify with. I could do that, and I could do it without being total agreement with them on every point and without looking like a slime ball. Probably couldn't grow the mullet though.

I can admit that I would have done the same as Gundy and reversed course, not that I support OAN. I'll admit that I'm spineless, because the alternative of sticking to your guns means you're finished. Most people don't get a second chance in the court of public opinion. It shouldn't be that way though. I will say it drives me crazy that their are rich idiots like John Schnatter that risk everything by opening their mouth and saying something stupid. Schnatter may or may not be a racist, there were conflicting reports on the context of his message, but he's certainly a dumb ass for ever using the N word in any context period. There's no reason for a white man to ever use that word in it's entirety.

 

[greyhammer90]

I can admit that I would have done the same as Gundy and reversed course, not that I support OAN. I'll admit that I'm spineless, because the alternative of sticking to your guns means you're finished. Most people don't get a second chance in the court of public opinion. It shouldn't be that way though. I will say it drives me crazy that their are rich idiots like John Schnatter that risk everything by opening their mouth and saying something stupid. Schnatter may or may not be a racist, there were conflicting reports on the context of his message, but he's certainly a dumb ass for ever using the N word in any context period. There's no reason for a white man to ever use that word in it's entirety.

Well I think the whole "you can't say anything anymore" thing is crazy overblown. There are extreme examples where someone got worse than what was coming to them, but it feels like there are three types of people that I hear this from more than anyone:

1) Conservative political commentators who make insane amounts of money talking about how you couldn't possibly make money by having their opinions,

2) Comedians who make massive amounts of money making jokes about how "nobody lets us joke about that anymore"

3) People who listen to the two above and nod their heads aggressively

Shapiro/Peterson/Dave Rubin/Charlie Kirk all seem to make great money talking about things "THEY aren't letting me say." Their entire platforms/celebrity are built around it. I like occasionally listening to some of those guys, but I'm not going to just sweep it under the rug that they often act persecuted for an identity that they have carefully manufactured to be appealing to their own base and obnoxious to anyone else.

Then you have comedians, who make it sound like we live in Nazi Germany while having more freedom to mock than ever. Sure Chappelle gets unfavorable ratings from some critics, but he's being paid millions to make fun of trans people and even the libs at reddit thought it was hilarious. Bill Burr's entire act is about saying something that makes an audience uncomfortable and then mugging for the camera and saying "That's what's wrong with this country!" Rogan frequently talks about soft the entire country is and how you can't disagree with anyone, as his numbers continue to grow and he brings on conservative political pundits to talk about the absurdity of identity politics. Again to pluck from the annals of history, this isn't exactly George Carlin being arrested for swearing.

If you have something intelligent to say, and say it in an intelligent way (or in Jordan Peterson's case, a way that seems intelligent), or have something funny to say, and say it in a funny way, you will not only not be cancelled but will be listened to by tons of people. If cancel culture was as pervasive and effective as everyone seems to think, we wouldn't have Trump as president.*

*Proving you don't even need to say it in a way that seems intelligent.

 

[irishff1014]

I can't login into twitter from work but you all should see the demands from the players to Mike Gundy. Check it out on Doug Gottlieb twitter. I know nothing about this guy but if this is true wow. If i was Gundy i would tell them to pack sand.

 

[Irish YJ]

Well I think the whole "you can't say anything anymore" thing is crazy overblown. There are extreme examples where someone got worse than what was coming to them, but it feels like there are three types of people that I hear this from more than anyone:

1) Conservative political commentators who make insane amounts of money talking about how you couldn't possibly make money by having their opinions,

2) Comedians who make massive amounts of money making jokes about how "nobody lets us joke about that anymore"

3) People who listen to the two above and nod their heads aggressively

Shapiro/Peterson/Dave Rubin/Charlie Kirk all seem to make great money talking about things "THEY aren't letting me say." Their entire platforms/celebrity are built around it. I like occasionally listening to some of those guys, but I'm not going to just sweep it under the rug that they often act persecuted for an identity that they have carefully manufactured to be appealing to their own base and obnoxious to anyone else.

Then you have comedians, who make it sound like we live in Nazi Germany while having more freedom to mock than ever. Sure Chappelle gets unfavorable ratings from some critics, but he's being paid millions to make fun of trans people and even the libs at reddit thought it was hilarious. Bill Burr's entire act is about saying something that makes an audience uncomfortable and then mugging for the camera and saying "That's what's wrong with this country!" Rogan frequently talks about soft the entire country is and how you can't disagree with anyone, as his numbers continue to grow and he brings on conservative political pundits to talk about the absurdity of identity politics. Again to pluck from the annals of history, this isn't exactly George Carlin being arrested for swearing.

If you have something intelligent to say, and say it in an intelligent way (or in Jordan Peterson's case, a way that seems intelligent), or have something funny to say, and say it in a funny way, you will not only not be cancelled but will be listened to by tons of people. If cancel culture was as pervasive and effective as everyone seems to think, we wouldn't have Trump as president.*

*Proving you don't even need to say it in a way that seems intelligent.

It goes farther than the above. My best friend back in Indy who is a hard core liberal (hates Trump, but happens to be late 40s) complained about the vandalizing/destruction off the Five Guys (his favorite place for shakes on Fridays) near his office, and had multiple complaints filed against him at work by 20 somethings.

They investigated, found nothing wrong with what he said, or the way he said things, yet now basically have a policy at work that you can't talk negatively about any type of protests even if violent or illegal. He's close with the owner, who is also very liberal, so no risk of losing his job or anything... but the owner behind closed doors more or less told my friend "we just have to bite our tongues right now about everything" regardless of right or wrong.

Not sure where you work, but it's egg shells everywhere. If you don't don't capitulate to certain ideology, there are risks. And that's pretty scary.

 

[Irish YJ]

I can't login into twitter from work but you all should see the demands from the players to Mike Gundy. Check it out on Doug Gottlieb twitter. I know nothing about this guy but if this is true wow. If i was Gundy i would tell them to pack sand.

Now Gottlieb is getting smashed for reporting it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is a bad tweet. It was simply relaying what I was told. It lacks feeling in the room and the real heart of what players feel and want. I was wrong to tweet (and have bad grammar) these demands w/o context or substance. I was wrong (1) <a href="https://t.co/O0eQ8SlVqL">https://t.co/O0eQ8SlVqL</a></p>— Doug Gottlieb (@GottliebShow) <a href="https://twitter.com/GottliebShow/status/1273280233886474241?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 17, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[irishff1014]

Now Gottlieb is getting smashed for reporting it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is a bad tweet. It was simply relaying what I was told. It lacks feeling in the room and the real heart of what players feel and want. I was wrong to tweet (and have bad grammar) these demands w/o context or substance. I was wrong (1) <a href="https://t.co/O0eQ8SlVqL">https://t.co/O0eQ8SlVqL</a></p>— Doug Gottlieb (@GottliebShow) <a href="https://twitter.com/GottliebShow/status/1273280233886474241?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 17, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So it must have been true than.

thanks for posting that.

 

[Bluto]

Marx has undoubtedly influenced one of the world's greatest living philosophers in Alasdair MacIntyre, who just so happens to be a practicing Catholic and an emeritus professor/senior research fellow at...the University of Notre Dame. One can be vehemently opposed to communism while also still taking Marx's critiques of capital at face value.

Imagine that. Agree completely. I doubt Laura Ingram will ever be able to say the same. Lol. Salud!

 

[greyhammer90]

If you don't don't capitulate to certain ideology, there are risks. And that's pretty scary.

My point is that the above has basically been true in every society at any point in human history. The Loyalists probably weren't super pumped about being tarred, feathered, and ridden out of town on poles for not wanting to go at war with their own country, etc.

Yes, the mass publication of public faux pas often means someone's worst moment can live forever, but often the same effect occurred before modern times. If a blacksmith was disliked by his village, it wasn't like he could just load everything into his Chevy and move on easy peasy.