Mike Elko - Defensive Coordinator

[Southside Sully]

Been told this by 2 unrelated big shot boosters. ND will never hire another non-HC again.

Meaning will not hire a coordinator that they wouldn't consider to be a future HC candidate? Or tie them into a line of succession?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The answer is "yes"... whether Kelly is making $10 million or $5 million he's the same coach. Whether Elko is making $1.5 million or $2.5 million he's the same coach.

Where you lose culture has nothing to do with the dollars and cents... it has to do with prioritizing wins and players over the culture. For example, "The U" in its heyday. Or FSU with Jameis Winston. Or Baylor. When schools get off the rails it has to do with the people they bring in and how they tolerate behavior.

Stanford is paying David Shaw elite money and their coordinators "very good" money... has not changed their culture, academically. It does not matter that he's making more than double what he was when he first got the job. It does not matter that his coordinators are making near triple. It wouldn't matter if he was making $10 mil. It would matter if Stanford started JUCOs like an SEC school, etc.

Stanford is absolutely a legitimate contender throughout this decade.

2010 -- 12-1
2011 -- 11-2
2012 -- 12-2
2013 -- 11-3
2014 -- 8-5
2015 -- 12-2
2016 -- 10-3
2017 -- 9-5

So they won 11+ games five of the past eight years. Won 12 games three times. ND fans would absolutely sign up for winning 11+ games in the majority of seasons... it's not even a question. And most of those years, they would've been in or on the border of the playoffs (if the playoffs existed) so that's absolutely "contending."

/cosigned

If those insufferable techbros in Palo Alto can do it, there's no reason we can't.

 

[gkIrish]

You don't set a precedent that you will match any offer. Whether we like it or not ND is only going to spend X amount of dollars on the football program because ND is fiscally responsible and has a budget/plan. TAMU clearly doesn't have fiscal responsibility (see Jimbo's contract) Every penny that ND pays a coordinator is a penny that won't be used elsewhere. It could be that 3-4 position coaches don't get a raise. It could be that the players get flank steak instead of Filet Mignon. Maybe we can't send out those fancy graphics to recruits. We don't know.

The point is it's not that simple. ND isn't going to take 500,000 from some academic fund and give that to Elko. You might think they can get a booster to pay it but then what if they need that booster next year for something more important and he is like Fuck Off? It's not our money until ticket prices go up again or ND does something else that affects our pockets.

If you want ND to start throwing money around causally (who knows what the final amount would have been) you are probably a fan of the wrong school. I am all for spending money smartly and in ways that will help ND football long term, but I don't think engaging in a bidding war for a coach that is good but was willing to leave after one year is the place to spend it.

 

[arahop]

Sherm

Originally Posted by arahop View Post
I get it. Elko apparently agreed verbally and then A&M kept offering more. I'm not saying I agree with Elko's ethics if that's how it played out.
But my career isn't college football and that's the way it's played now a day's. So your comparison isn't applicable. The market was set with Aranda and that set the market. If Notre Dame is going be serious about being a contender you can't lose these types of battles.
When it comes to battles of money Notre Dame shouldn't lose many of those and that's how it equates to winning in today's college landscape. If we can't recruit everyone we want because of academic standards then we sure as hell better pay top dollar for coaches. Whatever the perceived budget is, it needs to change for more on the field success. Notre Dame can control that


Completely disagree with this. Elko showed the type of honorable/dishonorable person he is. What's to say Notre Dame offers $2.5 and TAMU final stops and he signs with ND. Then 12 months from now another program, say Nebraska, comes in and offers $3 million. You are going to get involved in a bidding war? Clearly Elko didn't want to be at ND or is all about the money. Notre Dame needed to cut him loose now instead of 12 months from now when he would have been more ingrained in the program. Come on man.

A well written contract keeps me out of that bidding war.
Cut him loose because he's " all about the money"??
Yes we should get involved in a bidding war. We have the resources.
That's what happens when you have highly sought after Coaches. Sometimes you have to spend to hold on to pieces that are worth it.
Im not saying he handled it properly. But scenarios change and money wins out most of the time. He had two schools in a bidding war. I can let personal feelings.
aside if a guy can coach.
If I agreed to something verbally and another company offered me over half a mile more a year to do it. I can go back on my word real quick. You know why because the papers weren't drawn up. Nobility doesn't win these battles in college football. Money wins.

 

[NDRock]

You don't set a precedent that you will match any offer. Whether we like it or not ND is only going to spend X amount of dollars on the football program because ND is fiscally responsible and has a budget/plan. TAMU clearly doesn't have fiscal responsibility (see Jimbo's contract) Every penny that ND pays a coordinator is a penny that won't be used elsewhere. It could be that 3-4 position coaches don't get a raise. It could be that the players get flank steak instead of Filet Mignon. Maybe we can't send out those fancy graphics to recruits. We don't know.

The point is it's not that simple. ND isn't going to take 500,000 from some academic fund and give that to Elko. You might think they can get a booster to pay it but then what if they need that booster next year for something more important and he is like Fuck Off? It's not our money until ticket prices go up again or ND does something else that affects our pockets.

If you want ND to start throwing money around causally (who knows what the final amount would have been) you are probably a fan of the wrong school. I am all for spending money smartly and in ways that will help ND football long term, but I don't think engaging in a bidding war for a coach that is good but was willing to leave after one year is the place to spend it.

It costs a lot more money when you lose. And you lose when you don't have top coaches. At one time, we were paying, Ty, Charlie, and Kelly all at the same time. How's that for being fiscally responsible? If the defense struggles this year, Kelly probably gets fired. Then we are paying buyouts to everyone, including the new D coordinator we'll have to hire. How's that for fiscal responsibility?

 

[IrishTusker]

You don't set a precedent that you will match any offer. Whether we like it or not ND is only going to spend X amount of dollars on the football program because ND is fiscally responsible and has a budget/plan. TAMU clearly doesn't have fiscal responsibility (see Jimbo's contract) Every penny that ND pays a coordinator is a penny that won't be used elsewhere. It could be that 3-4 position coaches don't get a raise. It could be that the players get flank steak instead of Filet Mignon. Maybe we can't send out those fancy graphics to recruits. We don't know.

The point is it's not that simple. ND isn't going to take 500,000 from some academic fund and give that to Elko. You might think they can get a booster to pay it but then what if they need that booster next year for something more important and he is like Fuck Off? It's not our money until ticket prices go up again or ND does something else that affects our pockets.

If you want ND to start throwing money around causally (who knows what the final amount would have been) you are probably a fan of the wrong school. I am all for spending money smartly and in ways that will help ND football long term, but I don't think engaging in a bidding war for a coach that is good but was willing to leave after one year is the place to spend it.

If you win, though, revenue goes up. The odds that we make the playoffs next year, or win 10 games next year, or even just beat Michigan next year, have gone down considerably imo.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I don't blame ND for refusing to continue bidding against aTm. 10 years and $75m guaranteed (or whatever his deal was; can't look up the most recently reported details right now) for a DC is absurd, and is obviously unsustainable in the long term.

I think the 10 years/$75m is what A&M is paying Jimbo, not Elko. Most sources are reporting that A&M will be paying Elko $1.8m/yr for 3 years. Big money for a DC.

 

[Irishman77]

Money is how ND can get back on top. ND... you have the money. Spend it. Football is what makes you special. Own it. Give a big middle finger to the peons at other schools and embrace the salary arms race.

This!

 

[gkIrish]

If you win, though, revenue goes up. The odds that we make the playoffs next year, or win 10 games next year, or even just beat Michigan next year, have gone down considerably imo.

It costs a lot more money when you lose. And you lose when you don't have top coaches. At one time, we were paying, Ty, Charlie, and Kelly all at the same time. How's that for being fiscally responsible? If the defense struggles this year, Kelly probably gets fired. Then we are paying buyouts to everyone, including the new D coordinator we'll have to hire. How's that for fiscal responsibility?

Yeah but the question is how many more games does Elko individually win compared to whoever we replace him with? And then take into account where that extra money comes from? Let say 4 position coaches don't get a raise they would otherwise get. They are now pissed off and maybe don't bust their ass as much. Paying Elko is not something that happens in a vacuum.

And it's about not setting a precedent. You pay Elko now. The team still doesn't perform that well and Kelly gets fired. The next potential HC uses what Elko did as a negotiation tactic and you end up paying him 2 million more per year than you wanted to. That's not how you run a business.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I think the 10 years/$75m is what A&M is paying Jimbo, not Elko. Most sources are reporting that A&M will be paying Elko $1.8m/yr for 3 years. Big money for a DC.

That's true, but as we've continued to discuss this, I don't think Swarbrick was right because of the objective unreasonableness of the numbers involved, but because it was obvious that Elko was looking to start a bidding war and go with whoever threw the most money at him. That's a no-win situation for us.

 

[NDRock]

Yeah but the question is how many more games does Elko individually win compared to whoever we replace him with? And then take into account where that extra money comes from? Let say 4 position coaches don't get a raise they would otherwise get. They are now pissed off and maybe don't bust their ass as much. Paying Elko is not something that happens in a vacuum.

And it's about not setting a precedent. You pay Elko now. The team still doesn't perform that well and Kelly gets fired. The next potential HC uses what Elko did as a negotiation tactic and you end up paying him 2 million more per year than you wanted to. That's not how you run a business.

Letting your best people leave to the competition doesn't sound like a great way to run a business either but since you're dying for Kelly to get fired I understand why you're glad Elko is gone.

 

[snoopdog]

That's true, but as we've continued to discuss this, I don't think Swarbrick was right because of the objective unreasonableness of the numbers involved, but because it was obvious that Elko was looking to start a bidding war and go with whoever threw the most money at him. That's a no-win situation for us.

Maybe....maybe not

TAMU offers more then just money. He is a recruiter at heart and now he can recruit any High school player in the country as well as JUCO with little regard to academics.

As a professional....wanting to be a top perfprmer is all about putting yourself in the best possible position to outperform.

TAMU is showing more than any other school in the P5 that they are committed to winning right now. What highly motivated professional doesn't jump all over that????

Also if he does have success....how long before he is poached ala Kirby Smart to be a HC at an elite P5 school? two year at most is my guess.

 

[BobbyMac]

Stanford is absolutely a legitimate contender throughout this decade.

2010 -- 12-1
2011 -- 11-2
2012 -- 12-2
2013 -- 11-3
2014 -- 8-5
2015 -- 12-2
2016 -- 10-3
2017 -- 9-5

So they won 11+ games five of the past eight years. Won 12 games three times. ND fans would absolutely sign up for winning 11+ games in the majority of seasons... it's not even a question. And most of those years, they would've been in or on the border of the playoffs (if the playoffs existed) so that's absolutely "contending."

/cosigned

If those insufferable techbros in Palo Alto can do it, there's no reason we can't.

Move to Orange County, join the PAC and play MSU, UC Davis and Rice. ND would be a 2 or 3 loss team at worst for eternity.

(Actually, if ND was in Orange County they'd be St. Bama... so good they'd leave the NCAA for the NFC West.)

 

[gkIrish]

Letting your best people leave to the competition doesn't sound like a great way to run a business either but since you're dying for Kelly to get fired I understand why you're glad Elko is gone.

Since when is TAMU our competition? We will never play them anytime soon, they will never make the playoffs out of the SEC, and we compete for very few recruits. If anything, their program doing better helps us.

And Kelly has nothing to do with what I'm saying other than in hypotheticals so ...?

I am not "glad" Elko is gone. I am glad we didn't get in a bidding war.

 

[GowerND11]

Letting your best people leave to the competition doesn't sound like a great way to run a business either but since you're dying for Kelly to get fired I understand why you're glad Elko is gone.

If your best people are just continuing to leverage raises what does that say about their commitment to your business? gk never once has said he is glad Elko is gone. Don't put words in his mouth.

 

[IrishLax]

Since when is TAMU our competition? We will never play them anytime soon, they will never make the playoffs out of the SEC, and we compete for very few recruits. If anything, their program doing better helps us.

And Kelly has nothing to do with what I'm saying other than in hypotheticals so ...?

I am not "glad" Elko is gone. I am glad we didn't get in a bidding war.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...-texas-am-announce-home-and-home-for-2024-25/

I really wonder if their staff will still be in place when this rolls around.

 

[gkIrish]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...-texas-am-announce-home-and-home-for-2024-25/

I really wonder if their staff will still be in place when this rolls around.

I stand corrected on that. Forget about it. But yeah doubt either team will have any of the same staff in place by then.

 

[BobbyMac]

That's true, but as we've continued to discuss this, I don't think Swarbrick was right because of the objective unreasonableness of the numbers involved, but because it was obvious that Elko was looking to start a bidding war and go with whoever threw the most money at him. That's a no-win situation for us.

If my Mega millions OR Powerball # hits...

I will endow the DC position at ND $3M a year for the next 3 yrs IF:

1. They hire Dave Aranda

2. Name the position --> The "Elko's workin' for peanuts at Bonfire Tech" Defensive Coordinator


Seriously Mendoza doesn't have $9M laying around to do this? What's the point of being rich if you can't have fun and right wrongs throughout the world?

 

[Bishop2b5]

It costs a lot more money when you lose. And you lose when you don't have top coaches. At one time, we were paying, Ty, Charlie, and Kelly all at the same time. How's that for being fiscally responsible? If the defense struggles this year, Kelly probably gets fired. Then we are paying buyouts to everyone, including the new D coordinator we'll have to hire. How's that for fiscal responsibility?

If you win, though, revenue goes up. The odds that we make the playoffs next year, or win 10 games next year, or even just beat Michigan next year, have gone down considerably imo.

This is 100% my view of it. A program that's VERY successful becomes a license to print money, almost. Bama's been paying Saban & staff a ridiculous amount for a decade, but have gotten that money back several times over. As NDRock points out, losing and having to keep paying bad coaches to go away isn't cheap.

NOBODY, not even Texas or Bama, has the potential to be a true national team like ND could be again with over the top success. A willingness to spend what it took to be the best would likely return that investment several times over. Bama has picked up a few million casual fans across the country who love college football but don't have a successful local team or alma mater to pull for and get behind. That's translated into tens of millions in additional revenue. ND's ability to tap into that market if winning 11 or 12 games per year, going to the playoffs consistently, and winning it all every few years would dwarf Bama's share of that market. And that sort of national awareness soon translates into national recruiting success too.

 

[koonja]

Yeah but the question is how many more games does Elko individually win compared to whoever we replace him with? And then take into account where that extra money comes from? Let say 4 position coaches don't get a raise they would otherwise get. They are now pissed off and maybe don't bust their ass as much. Paying Elko is not something that happens in a vacuum.

And it's about not setting a precedent. You pay Elko now. The team still doesn't perform that well and Kelly gets fired. The next potential HC uses what Elko did as a negotiation tactic and you end up paying him 2 million more per year than you wanted to. That's not how you run a business.

IDK, probably 2 in 2018? And that can mean tens of millions. What's the payout for going 9-3 versus making the playoffs at 11-1?

Its certainly more than $500K.

 

[snoopdog]

This is 100% my view of it. A program that's VERY successful becomes a license to print money, almost. Bama's been paying Saban & staff a ridiculous amount for a decade, but have gotten that money back several times over. As NDRock points out, losing and having to keep paying bad coaches to go away isn't cheap.

NOBODY, not even Texas or Bama, has the potential to be a true national team like ND could be again with over the top success. A willingness to spend what it took to be the best would likely return that investment several times over. Bama has picked up a few million casual fans across the country who love college football but don't have a successful local team or alma mater to pull for and get behind. That's translated into tens of millions in additional revenue. ND's ability to tap into that market if winning 11 or 12 games per year, going to the playoffs consistently, and winning it all every few years would dwarf Bama's share of that market. And that sort of national awareness soon translates into national recruiting success too.

Check out the turnover of Coordinators and coaches at BAMA.

 

[NorthDakota]

If my Mega millions OR Powerball # hits...

I will endow the DC position at ND $3M a year for the next 3 yrs IF:

1. They hire Dave Aranda

2. Name the position --> The "Elko's workin' for peanuts at Bonfire Tech" Defensive Coordinator


Seriously Mendoza doesn't have $9M laying around to do this? What's the point of being rich if you can't have fun and right wrongs throughout the world?

Was literally thinking about this today on my lunch break.

The NorthDakota DC.

All I want in exchange is to get dinner with Kelly once a year.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

TAMU offers more then just money. He is a recruiter at heart and now he can recruit any High school player in the country as well as JUCO with little regard to academics.

ND fans have been pointing to these factors for decades now as to why we'll never get an elite coach again. But every time actual coaches are polled on the most desirable jobs nationwide, ND ends up at the very top of the list. We do have some unique challenges, but we've got at least as many unique advantages. Our struggles have had much more to do with the admin's poor hiring decisions/ mismanagement than with structural factors.

TAMU is showing more than any other school in the P5 that they are committed to winning right now. What highly motivated professional doesn't jump all over that????

TAMU is attempting to buy their way to top. It usually doesn't result in sustained success. How is Oregon or Okie State looking these days?

Also if he does have success....how long before he is poached ala Kirby Smart to be a HC at an elite P5 school? two year at most is my guess.

That's another good point. Elko is obviously interested first and foremost in advancing his own career. We might not have even gotten a 3rd year out of him had we won the bidding war for his services in 2018.

 

[Bishop2b5]

That's true, but as we've continued to discuss this, I don't think Swarbrick was right because of the objective unreasonableness of the numbers involved, but because it was obvious that Elko was looking to start a bidding war and go with whoever threw the most money at him. That's a no-win situation for us.

I definitely agree with you on this. Elko was pitting ND against A&M in a bidding war. Swarbrick was right to basically say, "OK, you want a raise. We'll top A&M's first offer, but we're not going to go back & forth in a bidding war."

 

[gkIrish]

IDK, probably 2 in 2018? And that can mean tens of millions. What's the payout for going 9-3 versus making the playoffs at 11-1?

Its certainly more than $500K.

I disagree that he is worth 2 wins. I mentioned earlier that teams are going to have a full year of film now. I would be very surprised if our defense performed significantly better than it did this year. He is a good coach, but we gave up like 35 or something to his former team. That tells me a lot.

 

[IrishLion]

TAMU is attempting to buy their way to top. It usually doesn't result in sustained success. How is Oregon or Okie State looking these days?

Don't forget the team ND just beat, LSU, just dropped $2.5M/yr on their d-coordinator, who coincidentally just got beat by a backup quarterback who was primarily throwing to passes to receivers 4-6 on the depth chart.

(Ignore the "lack of scouting on Book" and "not prepared for the play-action passing game" angles that LSU could use to argue with)

 

[T Town Tommy]

This is 100% my view of it. A program that's VERY successful becomes a license to print money, almost. Bama's been paying Saban & staff a ridiculous amount for a decade, but have gotten that money back several times over. As NDRock points out, losing and having to keep paying bad coaches to go away isn't cheap.

NOBODY, not even Texas or Bama, has the potential to be a true national team like ND could be again with over the top success. A willingness to spend what it took to be the best would likely return that investment several times over. Bama has picked up a few million casual fans across the country who love college football but don't have a successful local team or alma mater to pull for and get behind. That's translated into tens of millions in additional revenue. ND's ability to tap into that market if winning 11 or 12 games per year, going to the playoffs consistently, and winning it all every few years would dwarf Bama's share of that market. And that sort of national awareness soon translates into national recruiting success too.

I agree but I also don't believe that the BoT at ND looks at it as a risk/reward outcome. They have consistently acted in a manner in which the success of their football program is not on their list of highest priorities. At Texas A&M it is. Whether that's right or wrong is open for debate.

 

[IrishLion]

I disagree that he is worth 2 wins. I mentioned earlier that teams are going to have a full year of film now. I would be very surprised if our defense performed significantly better than it did this year. He is a good coach, but we gave up like 35 or something to his former team. That tells me a lot.

They'd have a full year on film, but ND was still in the basics of Elko's defense, and with zero serviceable safeties to boot.

Adding more complexities (which he is obviously capable of teaching, based on past success) and injecting more talent across the board (which this recruiting class absolutely took care of) probably results in better results over the next two or three years.

 

[koonja]

I disagree that he is worth 2 wins. I mentioned earlier that teams are going to have a full year of film now. I would be very surprised if our defense performed significantly better than it did this year. He is a good coach, but we gave up like 35 or something to his former team. That tells me a lot.

He improved at Wake every year. And they had film there, too.

What your saying could be true, but Elko's history supports the opposite progression.

 

[BobbyMac]

Was literally thinking about this today on my lunch break.

The NorthDakota DC.

All I want in exchange is to get dinner with Kelly once a year.

Which Kelly?

Carlson?

Brook?

or Gale?

Now back to the regularly scheduled dumpster fire.