Marcus Freeman Revisited

[Giddyup]

Yeah and Jimbo with a national championship ring and $30M payroll for players just lost to App State. What's your point? All kinds of people of all different backgrounds might work out or might fail. There are maybe a half dozen "sure things," total.

Point is at ND we shouldn’t have to roll the dice. At least not with a guy who has no experience. Let Ball State/Cincy have that job and if he’s competent look at him.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Yeah and Jimbo with a national championship ring and $30M payroll for players just lost to App State. What's your point? All kinds of people of all different backgrounds might work out or might fail. There are maybe a half dozen "sure things," total.

I'm starting to think Jimbo simply struck lightening with Jameis Winston and is simply riding that 2014 wave almost a decade later. Abysmal track record of player development, QBs specifically. Worse than BK

 

[Riddickulous]

Young, inexperienced HCs work out all the time. I have no issues rolling the dice with a high upside candidate. What is the downside to it not working out? You just go make a new hire then. It's not like they passed on Nick Saban in order to hire Freeman.

Yep. If there's any possibility you can keep the current momentum of the program (2017-21) going, you take it. That was Freeman. If it doesn't work out, you can rebuild.

 

[Free Manera]

Point is at ND we shouldn’t have to roll the dice. At least not with a guy who has no experience. Let Ball State/Cincy have that job and if he’s competent look at him.

Nebraska thought they had a sure thing.

The fact is even guys that have excelled elsewhere won't necessarily cut it in the big time.

 

[Giddyup]

Holtz came after long stints at Arky/Minnesota. Parseghian after a long stint at from Northwestern.

 

[Giddyup]

At ND the successful and experienced mid level HC has worked far more often than an assistant.

 

[Giddyup]

Yep. If there's any possibility you can keep the current momentum of the program (2017-21) going, you take it. That was Freeman. If it doesn't work out, you can rebuild.

Half the guys on here say the program was in disarray that’s why Kelly left.

 

[irishff1014]

I could only name about 5, maybe 10 if you stretch it, elite coaches. There are 130 D1 programs. There are probably 5-10 more out there that are rebuilding bad programs that might get to that status at some point.

That leaves about 120-125 good, mediocre, and poor coaches (majority likely being mediocre or bad considering the vast amount of firings). The odds that MF was going to be one of the elite coaches was about 5/130 or about 3-4%. Given that it's his first time as head coach, it drops that percent even lower. What are the odds he was even going to be a good coach? Probably also pretty low if you look at the data of first time head coaches. People like to focus on the rare exceptions (i.e., Lincoln Riley), but for every Riley there are dozens of Helton's. The odds were stacked squarely against Freeman in a big way the day he was offered the job. Is MF a "good coach"? Well, how often does a new coach screw up an elite program in a matter of months? Is Ryan Day even elite? He simply maintained what Tressel and Meyer had created. It would take a hard effort to turn Ohio State into the disaster that is now ND. Day is certainly not a poor coach.

What took Brian Kelly 20 years to establish and gain enough respect and accolades to coach at ND and LSU (multiple D2 NC's, rebuilding 3 D1 programs, putting Cincy on and ND back on the map), was handed to Marcus Freeman on a silver platter at 35 years of age after never leading a program. What did we expect? The most troubling part is that he is destroying an elite program that took over a decade to build in the matter of just 3 games. I believe you have to be very very out of your league to screw up an elite program with AA's and future first round picks this bad in such a short amount of time.

Yes there is low chances that Freeman becomes a top coach.

But if we had a star Qb would we be having this conversation? If we had more WR’s would we be having the conversation? If our o line recruiting was better would we be having this conversation? If We had a different OC would we be having this conversation?

You have picked Freeman to pick apart but not looked at the other circumstances he was given. I am not saying he will be the next Dabo but he has to be given a chance.

I will say he is a little to friendly and needs to be more of a coach.

 

[stlnd01]

Holtz came after long stints at Arky/Minnesota. Parseghian after a long stint at from Northwestern.

Knute Rockne’s only head coaching experience was running Sorin’s interhall team.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

BK lost to effing Tulsa and Navy his first season and went 7-5.

We just seem to forget that because he ended on a positive note by beating USC for the first time in a a long time, and winning a bowl game.

Look at season two, when the optimism was pretty high pre-season:

Week 1: Shit bed in epic fashion at home against USF, we meet purple faced Kelly

Week 2: Shit bed in epic fashion against scUM under the lights

Week 3: Who gives a shit, season is toast

Don’t act like BK didn’t have growing pains at first, and stop with the stupid ass “muh cupboard isn’t bare though now” argument.

We would all love to have guys like: Allen, Gray, Floyd, Jones, Riddick, Eifert, Rudolph,Martin, Watt, etc. on offense right now


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[NDdomer2]

BK lost to effing Tulsa and Navy his first season and went 7-5.

We just seem to forget that because he ended on a positive note by beating USC for the first time in a a long time, and winning a bowl game.

Look at season two, when the optimism was pretty high pre-season:

Week 1: Shit bed in epic fashion at home against USF, we meet purple faced Kelly

Week 2: Shit bed in epic fashion against scUM under the lights

Week 3: Who gives a shit, season is toast

Don’t act like BK didn’t have growing pains at first, and stop with the stupid ass “muh cupboard isn’t bare though now” argument.

We would all love to have guys like: Allen, Gray, Floyd, Jones, Riddick, Eifert, Rudolph,Martin, Watt, etc. on offense right now


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i might even take some guys from that defense at this point right now.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

i might even take some guys from that defense at this point right now.

Off the top of my head: T’eo, Harrison Smith, Nix, Shembo.

I’m sure there was a CB on there that would be lined up right now too.

bRiAn KeLlY iNHerITed a MesS ThO


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[Domina Nostra]

That’s the thing. He is a Head Coach - not a fucking friend or Social Worker.

You might not like Kelly but the players played better for him and the offense was not this mess.

I think Freeman is too nice.

Hmmm... The FSU and Toledo games tell me (1) last year's team sucked at times too, (2) if we had Coan, Williams, and Austin, this team would be better.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Hmmm... The FSU and Toledo games tell me (1) last year's team sucked at times too, (2) if we had Coan, Williams, and Austin, this team would be better.

Better, possibly. Last year's team didn't get better offensively until Rees made play-calling adjustments and ND played softer defenses. If Coan, Williams, and Austin are on this year's team and Rees still called a game that consisted of slowing down the game and using clock at OSU, none of those three players make a big enough impact for ND to pull out that win. Against Marshall, yes, I could see them making a difference but I don't believe it would've been a blowout. Probably would've looked like Toledo again. The holes on this roster are enormous and the coaching staff seems hellbent on not adjusting to the preseason analysis that literally everyone in the industry seemed to have gotten wrong.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I think it's way too soon to be labeling Freeman as a program destroyer, just like I felt it was too soon and unwarranted to act like he was some savior that would get ND over the hump. He's coached 3 games.

This season looks to be an utter disappointment but the goal at this point should be playing better football in November than they are in September, get a bowl game and extra practice, continue to recruit at a high level, and potentially evaluate coaching changes in the off season (or don't) but either way the goal should be showing improvement on the field and filling holes via transfer portal and recruiting off the field. If he can do that, I think some of this might take care of itself.

 

[NDPhilly]

Last years team played like a borderline top 25 team for the first half of the year and then flipped the switch after the bye week. IMO they were playing like the #5 team in country going into the Fiesta Bowl, which they undoubtedly win with Kyren and KH. Might have finished at #4.

 

[ColinKSU]

Young, inexperienced HCs work out all the time. I have no issues rolling the dice with a high upside candidate. What is the downside to it not working out? You just go make a new hire then. It's not like they passed on Nick Saban in order to hire Freeman.

Absolutely. Freeman was a risk worth taking because of who he is, who he *could* be and how much success the programs Notre Dame *wishes* it was have just had doing the same thing. No one put a gun to the administration's head because this was the no-brainer decision.

And like you said, they passed on Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell to hire Marcus. You can find a replacement-level coach like them every single off-season.

 

[Rack Em]

Off the top of my head: T’eo, Harrison Smith, Nix, Shembo.

I’m sure there was a CB on there that would be lined up right now too.

bRiAn KeLlY iNHerITed a MesS ThO


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Heggie

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Heggie

May his name never be forgotten

 

[PigtownIrish]

Now that he's taken a dive into the Tiber, let's see if the miraculous can be called down.

If would be nice if the defense could create a turnover. Is that a miracle for us these days?

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

If would be nice if the defense could create a turnover. Is that a miracle for us these days?

It is what you say it is.

He is who you say he is.

 

[ulukinatme]

Was he taking RCIA classes all year in addition to his new HC duties & recruiting?

 

[WildMan1]

I think we’re somewhere around 3/4 wins this year..

I’m more disappointed in myself than I am the team.. I convinced myself this team was capable of a playoff run lol

I can’t even put into words how bad the offense looks.. wtf is going on with this O line?

And JayAd.. Foskey.. complete no shows. It’s just so strange. All of it, truly bizarre.

 

[IrishBoognish]

I think we’re somewhere around 3/4 wins this year..

I’m more disappointed in myself than I am the team.. I convinced myself this team was capable of a playoff run lol

I can’t even put into words how bad the offense looks.. wtf is going on with this O line?

And JayAd.. Foskey.. complete no shows. It’s just so strange. All of it, truly bizarre.

"I'm more disappointed in myself than I am the team"


Dude... I say this with all the respect I can muster.

Get help.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I think we’re somewhere around 3/4 wins this year..

I’m more disappointed in myself than I am the team.. I convinced myself this team was capable of a playoff run lol

I can’t even put into words how bad the offense looks.. wtf is going on with this O line?

And JayAd.. Foskey.. complete no shows. It’s just so strange. All of it, truly bizarre.

Not sure how you can be disappointed in yourself. Literally everyone got this team wrong. From the national media to the local beat, everyone misevaluated the staff and the roster. It's truly jaw-dropping to me to see the kind of problems this team is facing after having been so successful the last 5 seasons. We all knew that BK was a good, but not great, coach. Many of us knew we were taking him for granted. But almost all of us didn't expect the wheels to come off the way that they have. I hope they get this turned around. I think they can. It's within the range of outcomes to still finish 9-3. But if they don't, then yeah, a 3-9 season could happen.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Why Notre Dame football coach Marcus Freeman recently joined Catholic Church

Notre Dame head coach Marcus Freeman has fully embraced the program's culture in his short time there. Now, Freeman is officially Catholic.

www.on3.com

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Why Notre Dame football coach Marcus Freeman recently joined Catholic Church

Notre Dame head coach Marcus Freeman has fully embraced the program's culture in his short time there. Now, Freeman is officially Catholic.

www.on3.com

Was it because it's 'Hail Mary' time?

 

[Irish du Nord]

Off the top of my head: T’eo, Harrison Smith, Nix, Shembo.

I’m sure there was a CB on there that would be lined up right now too.

bRiAn KeLlY iNHerITed a MesS ThO


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KLM, Gary Gray, probably Robert Blanton over Hart/Lewis, Darius Fleming started ahead of Shembo that year.

But let’s talk offense, that’s where the real talent disparity lies.

 

[Deirishpisser]

i am more upset that i catch myself asking, was Brian Kelly a better coach than I thought? I hate the guy, but sometimes the grass isnt always greener despite the early video euphoria with freeman. Its super early, but the returns so far have been pretty ugly.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

i am more upset that i catch myself asking, was Brian Kelly a better coach than I thought? I hate the guy, but sometimes the grass isnt always greener despite the early video euphoria with freeman. Its super early, but the returns so far have been pretty ugly.

BK was limited, but he was usually good for collecting the gimme games. MF is on the biggest stage in the sport, we're about to find out if he is good enough. I am happy Kelly is gone, I like MF a lot, but wins are a requirement.