Marcus Freeman Revisited

[ulukinatme]

"they have brutal workloads"

He was talking about student athletes. Not SEC salaried employees.

Exactly. This was from 2014, but I've seen similar weekly schedules for the players. Full days like this and angry fans demanding more, spewing hate to 18-22 year olds :

 

[dublinirish]

Yeah I also heard that. I think she was not retained by ND but also didn't go with Kelly.

she was never employed directly by ND after her stint @ Mendoza right? She operates out of her own company so i'd guess she's doing same at LSU

 

[NDdomer2]

so when MF stands up there today and says

she was never employed directly by ND after her stint @ Mendoza right? She operates out of her own company so i'd guess she's doing same at LSU

this is accurate

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Who thinks Freeman intentionally threw the first two games so he could pitch to recruits that we need you?

Tanking for the first pick is genius!!!!

2007 season (2008 class): 3-9
2012 season (2013 class): 0-1

The best two classes in recent memory came after craptastic seasons!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KRM]

If Brian stayed there is no way we lose to Marshall. Might even have beaten Ohio St. Freeman sucks. Another Davie & Ty disaster. Should have waited until seasons end to hired coach. Could have gotten a lot better coach.

 

[ulukinatme]

If Brian stayed there is no way we lose to Marshall. Might even have beaten Ohio St. Freeman sucks. Another Davie & Ty disaster. Should have waited until seasons end to hired coach. Could have gotten a lot better coach.

It's way too early to make a call on Freeman. We escaped a number of games last year that we probably shouldn't have. The 2022 troubles started with the 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes.

 

[notredomer23]

Now Marcus is ready to win

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

If Brian stayed there is no way we lose to Marshall. Might even have beaten Ohio St. Freeman sucks. Another Davie & Ty disaster. Should have waited until seasons end to hired coach. Could have gotten a lot better coach.

BK was one qb slide from losing to Toledo last year. Instead the QB scored and BK was bailed out. The OSU thing is to ridiculous to answer and to easy to dispute.

 

[Irish#1]

If Brian stayed there is no way we lose to Marshall. Might even have beaten Ohio St. Freeman sucks. Another Davie & Ty disaster. Should have waited until seasons end to hired coach. Could have gotten a lot better coach.

Okay

 

[pumpdog20]

View attachment 3051483

Now Marcus is ready to win

Well, you can't say the dude ain't all in.

 

[SoIll]

Seen a tweet that he was recently baptized. Been a rough few weeks for coach, but Congratulations. Very cool.

 

[du Lac]

Well, you can't say the dude ain't all in.

Ugh. I really want this dude to be successful.

 

[Irishdrunk]

That’s the thing. He is a Head Coach - not a fucking friend or Social Worker.

You might not like Kelly but the players played better for him and the offense was not this mess.

I think Freeman is too nice.

 

[fightingirish26]

View attachment 3051483

Now Marcus is ready to win

Uhh wow!?

 

[dublinirish]

If Brian stayed there is no way we lose to Marshall. Might even have beaten Ohio St. Freeman sucks. Another Davie & Ty disaster. Should have waited until seasons end to hired coach. Could have gotten a lot better coach.

you wait for another coach (fickell?) then the 2022 recruiting class falls apart and you have no time to recover so then basically its akin to penalizing your own program with a reduction in scholarship players. No AD with a brain is ever gonna do this.

 

[IrishTusker]

That’s the thing. He is a Head Coach - not a fucking friend or Social Worker.

You might not like Kelly but the players played better for him and the offense was not this mess.

I think Freeman is too nice.

No NY6 wins in 12 years.

 

[NDPhilly]

View attachment 3051483

Now Marcus is ready to win

Damn no wonder we were losing!

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Now that he's taken a dive into the Tiber, let's see if the miraculous can be called down.

 

[du Lac]

I could only name about 5, maybe 10 if you stretch it, elite coaches. There are 130 D1 programs. There are probably 5-10 more out there that are rebuilding bad programs that might get to that status at some point.

That leaves about 120-125 good, mediocre, and poor coaches (majority likely being mediocre or bad considering the vast amount of firings). The odds that MF was going to be one of the elite coaches was about 5/130 or about 3-4%. Given that it's his first time as head coach, it drops that percent even lower. What are the odds he was even going to be a good coach? Probably also pretty low if you look at the data of first time head coaches. People like to focus on the rare exceptions (i.e., Lincoln Riley), but for every Riley there are dozens of Helton's. The odds were stacked squarely against Freeman in a big way the day he was offered the job. Is MF a "good coach"? Well, how often does a new coach screw up an elite program in a matter of months? Is Ryan Day even elite? He simply maintained what Tressel and Meyer had created. It would take a hard effort to turn Ohio State into the disaster that is now ND. Day is certainly not a poor coach.

What took Brian Kelly 20 years to establish and gain enough respect and accolades to coach at ND and LSU (multiple D2 NC's, rebuilding 3 D1 programs, putting Cincy on and ND back on the map), was handed to Marcus Freeman on a silver platter at 35 years of age after never leading a program. What did we expect? The most troubling part is that he is destroying an elite program that took over a decade to build in the matter of just 3 games. I believe you have to be very very out of your league to screw up an elite program with AA's and future first round picks this bad in such a short amount of time.

 

[indianamouse]

I could only name about 5, maybe 10 if you stretch it, elite coaches. There are 130 D1 programs. There are probably 5-10 more out there that are rebuilding bad programs that might get to that status at some point.

That leaves about 120-125 good, mediocre, and poor coaches (majority likely being mediocre or bad considering the vast amount of firings). The odds that MF was going to be one of the elite coaches was about 5/130 or about 3-4%. Given that it's his first time as head coach, it drops that percent even lower. What are the odds he was even going to be a good coach? Probably also pretty low if you look at the data of first time head coaches. People like to focus on the rare exceptions (i.e., Lincoln Riley), but for every Riley there are dozens of Helton's. The odds were stacked squarely against Freeman in a big way the day he was offered the job. Is MF a "good coach"? Well, how often does a new coach screw up an elite program in a matter of months? Is Ryan Day even elite? He simply maintained what Tressel and Meyer had created. It would take a hard effort to turn Ohio State into the disaster that is now ND. Day is certainly not a poor coach.

What took Brian Kelly 20 years to establish and gain enough respect and accolades to coach at ND and LSU (multiple D2 NC's, rebuilding 3 D1 programs, putting Cincy on and ND back on the map), was handed to Marcus Freeman on a silver platter at 35 years of age after never leading a program. The most troubling part is that he is destroying an elite program that took over a decade to build in the matter of just 3 games. I believe you have to be very very out of your league to screw up an elite program with AA's and future first round picks this bad in such a short amount of time.

It’s 2 games. RELAX

 

[stlnd01]

What took Brian Kelly 20 years to establish and gain enough respect and accolades to coach at ND and LSU (multiple D2 NC's, rebuilding 3 D1 programs, putting Cincy on and ND back on the map), was handed to Marcus Freeman on a silver platter at 35 years of age after never leading a program. The most troubling part is that he is destroying an elite program that took over a decade to build in the matter of just 3 games. I believe you have to be very very out of your league to screw up an elite program with AA's and future first round picks this bad in such a short amount of time.

Yes I think a lot of people took for granted the fact that Brian Kelly was/is one of the 5-10 best coaches in college football, by almost any measure. For his various flaws and limitations and personality traits that rub some people the wrong way, Kelly knows how to build a successful program better than all but a handful of people in the sport.

Freeman is still learning that. It will take some time. And he may never be the program-builder Kelly is. But he is not “destroying an elite program” in the span of three games either. He’s doing a lot of things right. The question is does he learn from the things he’s not doing right (and how quickly). I think one needs to give him some time on that part.

 

[Giddyup]

The biggest problem is Freeman has never had to hire and test an offensive staff to find his successful O guys that he can count on. He basically got thrown into a hopper without the requisite experience and connections. Hopefully he can figure it out on the run.

 

[Free Manera]

I could only name about 5, maybe 10 if you stretch it, elite coaches. There are 130 D1 programs. There are probably 5-10 more out there that are rebuilding bad programs that might get to that status at some point.

That leaves about 120-125 good, mediocre, and poor coaches (majority likely being mediocre or bad considering the vast amount of firings). The odds that MF was going to be one of the elite coaches was about 5/130 or about 3-4%. Given that it's his first time as head coach, it drops that percent even lower. What are the odds he was even going to be a good coach? Probably also pretty low if you look at the data of first time head coaches. People like to focus on the rare exceptions (i.e., Lincoln Riley), but for every Riley there are dozens of Helton's. The odds were stacked squarely against Freeman in a big way the day he was offered the job. Is MF a "good coach"? Well, how often does a new coach screw up an elite program in a matter of months?

What took Brian Kelly 20 years to establish and gain enough respect and accolades to coach at ND and LSU (multiple D2 NC's, rebuilding 3 D1 programs, putting Cincy on and ND back on the map), was handed to Marcus Freeman on a silver platter at 35 years of age after never leading a program. The most troubling part is that he is destroying an elite program that took over a decade to build in the matter of just 3 games. I believe you have to be very very out of your league to screw up an elite program with AA's and future first round picks this bad in such a short amount of time.

I think it's a stretch to call the program elite because they are 0fer against the actual elite teams. Unless we count a Clemson team that was missing its 2 best players including the best QB to come through college football maybe ever.

Kelly brought ND back to a top 15ish program and that was a big deal, because before that it was a tire fire. However there are three big asterisks to the Kelly tenure:

1. He never recruited at an actual elite level;
2. He benefitted from USC being way down every year;
3. Whenever ND played an actual elite team, the results ranged from "doors blown off" to "took the air out of the ball enough to make it seem close even though it really wasn't".

Freeman took over a program that has the foundational elements needed to become elite, but the roster and offensive scheme right now are not elite. Frankly, the roster isn't close. QBs and WRs are one of the most important positions on the field these days. ND doesn't have a receiver that can get open let alone win a game. And the QBs well I don't think we need to rehash that.

 

[stlnd01]

The biggest problem is Freeman has never had to hire and test an offensive staff to find his successful O guys that he can count on. He basically got thrown into a hopper without the requisite experience and connections. Hopefully he can figure it out on the run.

Also the entire offensive staff except for Rees turned over. Combine that with the lack of experienced talent and no wonder things are disjointed.

 

[IrishLax]

Young, inexperienced HCs work out all the time. I have no issues rolling the dice with a high upside candidate. What is the downside to it not working out? You just go make a new hire then. It's not like they passed on Nick Saban in order to hire Freeman.

 

[Giddyup]

Young, inexperienced HCs work out all the time. I have no issues rolling the dice with a high upside candidate. What is the downside to it not working out? You just go make a new hire then. It's not like they passed on Nick Saban in order to hire Freeman.

They also fail all the time

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Yes I think a lot of people took for granted the fact that Brian Kelly was/is one of the 5-10 best coaches in college football, by almost any measure. For his various flaws and limitations and personality traits that rub some people the wrong way, Kelly knows how to build a successful program better than all but a handful of people in the sport.

Freeman is still learning that. It will take some time. And he may never be the program-builder Kelly is. But he is not “destroying an elite program” in the span of three games either. He’s doing a lot of things right. The question is does he learn from the things he’s not doing right (and how quickly). I think one needs to give him some time on that part.

you read all of that?

 

[IrishLax]

They also fail all the time

Yeah and Jimbo with a national championship ring and $30M payroll for players just lost to App State. What's your point? All kinds of people of all different backgrounds might work out or might fail. There are maybe a half dozen "sure things," total.

 

[Giddyup]

Of the last four hires, the only successful one has been Kelly who was a long established successful HC. The assistants struggled after modest success. Willingham was a HC but only had a 54% winning percentage at Stanford.

 

[tko]

Wonder how Matt Campbell would be doing here right now? I think Kelly would be 2-1 the last 3 games. He would've never let Oklahoma State steal that bowl game. ND would've lost by 35 under him in the Shoe and he would've manufactured enough to beat Marshall. I'm glad Kelly isn't here though.