Johnny Football

[gkIrish]

I don't think an SEC team could score on an NFL defense. And they definitely wouldn't stop them 90% of the time on defense.

I could see an Oregon score maybe 10 pts on the worst NFL defense just because they are bound to break one or two screens off. But I'm not even sure about that.

You gotta remember NFL teams have 10 years worth of the beat players on their squads. Beating a collection of some of the best players from one season is a totally different animal.

 

[MNIrishman]

There are many elite players in the SEC. But the NFL has the best players in the world. There are plenty of SEC defensive stars who can't make a roster (e.g., SEC defensive player of the year, Michael Sam). Man for man, it's not even close. Manziel was getting run down by NFL defensive ends today.

Now, again, he might adjust and be pretty good. I wouldn't personally put money on that.

I think it's all his teammates. That pick he threw was entirely on his WR because the WR was too slow to beat his defender and catch it. The NFL shouldn't even draft from schools outside the SEC. Sick and tired of watching guys get beat.

 

[anarin]

No way man, do you even watch SEC football and nothing else? If Johnny can handle Bama, he can handle the NFL. Just gotta give him time to adjust to the slowness of his teammates who were drafted from other conferences and he'll be fine.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Am I the one getting wooshed? No way y'all still think he's serious, right?

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I think it's all his teammates. That pick he threw was entirely on his WR because the WR was too slow to beat his defender and catch it. The NFL shouldn't even draft from schools outside the SEC. Sick and tired of watching guys get beat.

Okay. Now I know you're trolling.

Right?

 

[MNIrishman]

Okay. Now I know you're trolling.

Right?

Mebbe.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Am I the one getting wooshed? No way y'all still think he's serious, right?

I rely on the italics pretty heavily.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Mebbe.

Jerk.

 

[IrishLion]

Manziel wasn't ready for a full game at NFL speed. He had a couple of opportunities to do amazing JFF things, but he either made a mistake (the first INT), missed his mark (avoided a sack nicely on third down, but overthrows receiver), or simply didn't fall back on his athleticism (couldve scrambled for a few first downs, tried to stay in and throw instead). Those are all things he can work on, IF he can adjust to the speed of the game, and also realizes that he can'the throw prayers to the middle of the field.

As a Bengals fan, I fully expected him to go cartoon mode and make dudes look silly wbile scrambling around and throwing the ball against breakdowns. But, it's tough to try and adjust to game speed when your WR drops your first third down throw of the day, and when your OL lets a third string DT into the backfield so fast that he gets a sack with one arm before you've dropped to your third step.

 

[dshans]

I rely on the italics pretty heavily.

Ya gots no SEC speed.

Well ...

Maybe mentally!!!

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Ya gots no SEC speed.

Well ...

Maybe mentally!!!

I should have known after the second post. But the first one was totally believable.

 

[GATTACA!]

Manziel wasn't ready for a full game at NFL speed. He had a couple of opportunities to do amazing JFF things, but he either made a mistake (the first INT), missed his mark (avoided a sack nicely on third down, but overthrows receiver), or simply didn't fall back on his athleticism (couldve scrambled for a few first downs, tried to stay in and throw instead). Those are all things he can work on, IF he can adjust to the speed of the game, and also realizes that he can'the throw prayers to the middle of the field.

As a Bengals fan, I fully expected him to go cartoon mode and make dudes look silly wbile scrambling around and throwing the ball against breakdowns. But, it's tough to try and adjust to game speed when your WR drops your first third down throw of the day, and when your OL lets a third string DT into the backfield so fast that he gets a sack with one arm before you've dropped to your third step.

Shhhhhhhhh no, no, no. You are supposed to talk about how bad he is and what a bust he is going to be.

 

[BeauBenken]

Shhhhhhhhh no, no, no. You are supposed to talk about how bad he is and what a bust he is going to be.

Have you always been a Manziel fan?

 

[GATTACA!]

Have you always been a Manziel fan?

No. Idk if i would even consider myself a "Manziel fan" now, but of course im rooting for him because he's a Brown. I just can't stand people criticizing him for shit every 21 yo does and/or now crucifying him over 1 game. Maybe he will be a bust and be terrible, maybe he will be a hall of famer and win 5 super bowls. But anyone that thinks they can decide based off one game is a moron.

 

[pkt77242]

No. Idk if i would even consider myself a "Manziel fan" now, but of course im rooting for him because he's a Brown. I just can't stand people criticizing him for shit every 21 yo does and/or now crucifying him over 1 game. Maybe he will be a bust and be terrible, maybe he will be a hall of famer and win 5 super bowls. But anyone that thinks they can decide based off one game is a moron.

The problem is that it isn't one game. He is doing all the same things that he did in college (which to be fair worked for him then) but which good NFL QBs do not do. Do not turn your back to get away from the blitz, set your feet when your throw, don't throw late across the middle, don't throw jump balls close to the endzone early in the game, etc. The truth is that it isn't one game, it is just about every game that Manziel has played in.

It is true that he could develop into a good QB (though I would say it is more likely that he will be a bust) but what he showed us in this game are all the reasons that people thought he wouldn't be good in the NFL based off of what he did in college.

My prediction for Manziel for the rest of the year is that he is going to be very inconsistent. A few good or great plays mixed with many shitty plays. He needs to learn to be a QB, to step up into the pocket, to set his feet, to not throw across his body, and to not throw the damn ball late across the middle along with numerous other things.

 

[IrishinSyria]

The problem is that it isn't one game. He is doing all the same things that he did in college (which to be fair worked for him then) but which good NFL QBs do not do. Do not turn your back to get away from the blitz, set your feet when your throw, don't throw late across the middle, don't throw jump balls close to the endzone early in the game, etc. The truth is that it isn't one game, it is just about every game that Manziel has played in.

It is true that he could develop into a good QB (though I would say it is more likely that he will be a bust) but what he showed us in this game are all the reasons that people thought he wouldn't be good in the NFL based off of what he did in college.

My prediction for Manziel for the rest of the year is that he is going to be very inconsistent. A few good or great plays mixed with many shitty plays. He needs to learn to be a QB, to step up into the pocket, to set his feet, to not throw across his body, and to not throw the damn ball late across the middle along with numerous other things.

I agree with everything you said, but I think that if he does learn to do all those things you listed, he becomes average-below average. He doesn't have the arm, the size, or the mind of a great NFL QB. He's like Jackson Pollack in a coloring book contest...

 

[dshans]

I ... He's like Jackson Pollack in a coloring book contest...

"Inside the lines, dammit, INSIDE the lines!"

"Oh yeah, oh yeah?"

Whip out your bank book.

Balances matter ...

 

[Bishop2b5]

No. Idk if i would even consider myself a "Manziel fan" now, but of course im rooting for him because he's a Brown. I just can't stand people criticizing him for shit every 21 yo does and/or now crucifying him over 1 game. Maybe he will be a bust and be terrible, maybe he will be a hall of famer and win 5 super bowls. But anyone that thinks they can decide based off one game is a moron.

It's not so much that he does the same stuff most 21-year-olds do. It's that he does those things to an excessive extent and doesn't seem to grow up and stop doing them when most other people his age do. Just like with Winston. Lots of other people his age did similarly stupid things, but not over and over and over with no sign of having learned a lesson from any of those mistakes and no sign of maturing past that stage of life. Manziel was obnoxiously bratty, but understandably so a year or two ago when he was a teenaged college kid. Now he's supposed to be an adult in the professional ranks of his field and it's not cute or acceptable. He just comes across as an immature, self-centered jackass.

 

[GATTACA!]

It's not so much that he does the same stuff most 21-year-olds do. It's that he does those things to an excessive extent and doesn't seem to grow up and stop doing them when most other people his age do. Just like with Winston. Lots of other people his age did similarly stupid things, but not over and over and over with no sign of having learned a lesson from any of those mistakes and no sign of maturing past that stage of life. Manziel was obnoxiously bratty, but understandably so a year or two ago when he was a teenaged college kid. Now he's supposed to be an adult in the professional ranks of his field and it's not cute or acceptable. He just comes across as an immature, self-centered jackass.

Winston raped a girl (allegedly) there is nothing even close to that in Manziels past. But ill bite, what did Johnny do? He went out at night and partied, he went to sporting events, he took pictures with hot chicks. When did i miss the DUI, the disorderly conduct, the girls he's getting pregnant, hell even a speeding ticket? You said you dont care he does stuff 21 year olds do so i guess you really wanted to see him grow up since last weekend when he turned 22. If you dont like Johnny for this minor stuff then you should dislike 50% of the league.

What has he done since he has been with the Browns that came of as an "immature, self-centered jackass."?? I just don't get it.

 

[GoldenDome]

I agree with everything you said, but I think that if he does learn to do all those things you listed, he becomes average-below average. He doesn't have the arm, the size, or the mind of a great NFL QB. He's like Jackson Pollack in a coloring book contest...

My question is, how in the f**k does the coaching staff think he is ready. Some of the worst footwork I have seen in a while. 5 step drops were sloppy, slow, and out of rhythm. Antcipation was none existent. Floating balls in the middle of the field while throwing across his body. What made the coaching staff believe he was ready?

 

[GATTACA!]

My question is, how in the f**k does the coaching staff think he is ready. Some of the worst footwork I have seen in a while. 5 step drops were sloppy, slow, and out of rhythm. Antcipation was none existent. Floating balls in the middle of the field while throwing across his body. What made the coaching staff believe he was ready?

Honestly they probably didn't. They realized that Hoyer was to the point where you were not making the playoffs with option A or B. So its better to appease the fans and get a look at what you have got in Johnny rather than ride it out with Hoyer and get the same results. I will say its tough to get a good gauge on a guys footwork when he is running for his life or getting hit by an unblocked rusher before he finishes his drop. FWIW Hoyer probably takes 3 or 4 more sacks today.

 

[Irish#1]

Winston raped a girl (allegedly) there is nothing even close to that in Manziels past. But ill bite, what did Johnny do? He went out at night and partied, he went to sporting events, he took pictures with hot chicks. When did i miss the DUI, the disorderly conduct, the girls he's getting pregnant, hell even a speeding ticket? You said you dont care he does stuff 21 year olds do so i guess you really wanted to see him grow up since last weekend when he turned 22. If you dont like Johnny for this minor stuff then you should dislike 50% of the league.

What has he done since he has been with the Browns that came of as an "immature, self-centered jackass."?? I just don't get it.

Well, he somehow managed to get everyone to believe he signed all of those helmets and footballs for free while in college.

Here's my issue with Manziel. When the Browns played the Colts, the entire week leading up to the game, the focus centered around was who was going to start. They discussed Hoyer and Manziel. They mentioned that Manziel never gets to the stadium and/or practice any earlier than the mandatory report time. If I'm given the opportunity, I think I'm working a little extra to let the staff know that I'm all in. If you want to be the man, you have to put in the extra work. Even Manning, Luck, Rodgers, Brady and Brees all put in extra time to become better. I personally don't think he's mature enough right now.

 

[koonja]

Merril Hodge said it best: "1st round pick with a 6th round grade".

 

[kmoose]

I just can't stand people criticizing him for shit every 21 yo does...

I'll tell you what; I will stop holding 21 year old professional athletes to a higher standard than their peers when they start living like their peers. This means that they can take the money that they are getting paid and put it in a trust that will pay them somewhere around $30,000 a year. That is all the money that they are allowed, and they have to figure out how to live within those means. No, wait............ they have 100% employer paid health insurance, so they can have about $27,000 a year.

 

[BeauBenken]

No. Idk if i would even consider myself a "Manziel fan" now, but of course im rooting for him because he's a Brown. I just can't stand people criticizing him for shit every 21 yo does and/or now crucifying him over 1 game. Maybe he will be a bust and be terrible, maybe he will be a hall of famer and win 5 super bowls. But anyone that thinks they can decide based off one game is a moron.

I think you should take a step back. Judging a player's likely NFL career based on his only NFL game is about all anyone can do. Don't call someone a moron for using that sort of judgement.

As well, shit that every 21 year old does? I've never taken a pornstar as a date to the biggest event of my life, and I'm 21. He catches shit because not only is he doing stupid party boy stuff, but he is doing it while on the largest stage possible. Many people before him have managed to put their careers before these party boy tendencies. You're told nowadays not to post public images of you partying...you don't even need to be a first round draft pick to know it's not a smart idea.

Winston raped a girl (allegedly) there is nothing even close to that in Manziels past.

I'm pretty sure everyone on this board would agree that Winston is a complete jackass as well. You're grasping for straws when you have to bring up how bad someone else is to make Johnny look pure.

 

[irishfan]

I like Manziel a lot. And I've always kind of defended his actions off the field. One thing that I found really interesting was listening to sports radio last week in Boston. They had Arthur Lynch (injured TE on the Dolphins and local MA kid), and they were asking what players would think about their QB (Manziel) going out to the Cavs game during the week. He pretty much that unless you're killing it on the field, you just can't do that as a QB.

That's probably the most tame, controversial thing he's done off the field, and it still is something that is frowned upon in the locker room. The hosts (this was 98.5 in Boston) said that every player they had talked to said the same thing about JFF. Pretty much that any off-the-field press during the season wont sit well in any locker room.

I just thought it was interesting, cause I've always defended him saying he should do what he wants in his free time. And players clearly don't feel that way.

Also, for him on the field:

I watched pretty much the whole Cincy-Cleveland game. Any mistake he made was correctable IMO. Whenever Russ Wilson rolls out and avoids pressure, he sets his feet and throws a strike downfield. JFF was doing what he did in college. He'd throw off one foot and lose so much velocity. His first pick was a prime example of that. He really didn't get much help around him though. The protection sucked, and there were drops.

He should just study Russ Wilson film as much as possible. That's his best-case scenario for the QB who he could turn into.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I'll tell you what; I will stop holding 21 year old professional athletes to a higher standard than their peers when they start living like their peers. This means that they can take the money that they are getting paid and put it in a trust that will pay them somewhere around $30,000 a year. That is all the money that they are allowed, and they have to figure out how to live within those means. No, wait............ they have 100% employer paid health insurance, so they can have about $27,000 a year.

No shit. I had a buddy who was 18 years old and lost his right leg in freaking Afghanistan because he slipped on some dirt. He made $1717 a month. Forgive me if I don't fucking shed a tear for the passion of Johnny freaking football.

 

[phgreek]

Peyton Manning was not all that great...I'd say borderline bad...as a rookie. But he kept his head in the film room, and even when he was getting eaten alive, he showed love for his O-line. Andrew Luck was much the same way, only he had an O-line and mobility on his side...Russell Wilson...bout the same.

There are so many people who really gave him a blueprint...Rookies stay out of the social scene for the most part...prove something, then people don't care what ya do. No Oline is going to block for this guy like they are protecting one of their boys...they'll try because its how they get paid...but its guys just doin their job that make rookies have a very short career.

I like the kid's play to death every play mentality...but he needs to fix some shit...not the least of which is how he approaches his CAREER.

 

[GATTACA!]

I think you should take a step back. Judging a player's likely NFL career based on his only NFL game is about all anyone can do. Don't call someone a moron for using that sort of judgement.

As well, shit that every 21 year old does? I've never taken a pornstar as a date to the biggest event of my life, and I'm 21. He catches shit because not only is he doing stupid party boy stuff, but he is doing it while on the largest stage possible. Many people before him have managed to put their careers before these party boy tendencies. You're told nowadays not to post public images of you partying...you don't even need to be a first round draft pick to know it's not a smart idea.



I'm pretty sure everyone on this board would agree that Winston is a complete jackass as well. You're grasping for straws when you have to bring up how bad someone else is to make Johnny look pure.

To try and pretend that you can extrapolate a players entire career based off one game is moronic. Of course that is all you can do after one game and that was my whole point.

Edit: And reading back through my posts i wasn't even calling anyone a moron i was just using it a general term.

When did Johnny take a porn star somewhere? Must have missed that one.

Bishop was the one that brought up the comparison to Winston??? I was the one that said that was a horrible comparison.

 

[Irish#1]

Peyton Manning was not all that great...I'd say borderline bad...as a rookie. But he kept his head in the film room, and even when he was getting eaten alive, he showed love for his O-line. Andrew Luck was much the same way, only he had an O-line and mobility on his side...Russell Wilson...bout the same.

There are so many people who really gave him a blueprint...Rookies stay out of the social scene for the most part...prove something, then people don't care what ya do. No Oline is going to block for this guy like they are protecting one of their boys...they'll try because its how they get paid...but its guys just doin their job that make rookies have a very short career.

I like the kid's play to death every play mentality...but he needs to fix some shit...not the least of which is how he approaches his CAREER.

Except for the INT's, Peyton was pretty good his rookie season. Teams couldn't show him the same thing twice without him figuring it out, but I get where you're coming from. A lot of that has to do with extra time in the film room or staying after practice and getting additional coaching or reps with the players. Besides his work after practice, Manning and his receivers get together about four hours before game time and run every route they will be using in the game that day. I'm not sure if Luck does the same thing before games, but he does put in extra time after practice and in the film room.