How many more chances does Golson get?

[pkt77242]

Did you ever think that Zaire is not game ready? And Golson gives ND the best chance to win every week? ND is still playing for bowl positions the season is not lost yet.



Yah ND lost because of turnovers. 2 pick sixes that should have been caught by the receivers but weren't and subsequently were by the D. The D played OK but when the score was 34-3 the dogs were called off and put back on once the score got close.

NW put up 547 yards on ND. That alone would lose you the game. The offence didn't decide to go for 2 or not run out the clock or have Cam fumble it. Thats on Kelly.

What I am saying is that while Golsons TO issues are a problem, with an average D we aren't even talking about it because ND wins those games. And yes I get the D is hurt, suspended etc etc, thats why I said FIX the D first it is NDs greatest area of need right now.

Only 1 should have been caught by the WR, the other never made it past the line of scrimmage. As for the dogs being called off you could say the same thing about ASU's defense which backed off with a large lead which let the offense score some points.

In the NW game it isn't just the 2 point conversion, or Cam's fumble or not running the clock out, there is also Golson's int, and Brown's fumble, along with the special teams issues.

I disagree with that we need to fix the D first (partially), we need to fix the D and stop turning the damn ball over. I think our D played ok against ASU (not great or even good but ok) and we would probably have won had our offense not turned it over. Against NW our defense was very bad, but our Offense turned the ball over way too much as well.

Both are issues and both need to be fixed. It should be easy to fix the turnovers as they are mostly controllable but it takes time for people to heal from injuries and for the young players to get better. That is why I disagree with you on which should be fixed first because one is very controllable and the other isn't.

 

[TDHeysus]

Blame Golson all you want. But Chris Brown fumbled at the goal-line. Cam fumbled trying to ice the game. Brindza missed two FG's. Maliki dropped the snap on an extra point that turned into a 3 point swing. Oh and the defense was horrendous.

...and I will...whats it, 20 turnovers this season alone? He has matched or exceeded Tommy's turonvers from a previous year? You better believe I'm blaming Golson.


Jameis winston even knows that his 6 int's in the previous 3 games was a problem; I laughed when I heard him say that because Golson had like 16, or 17 turnovers at the time.....Jameis knows something that Golson doesn't (big red flag there!!!!!!)

Mailk cant possibly be any worse....cant possibly; as i said before lose with Zaire and score 20, or lose with Golson and score 40 with 4+ TO's, end result is the same. at least one of them doesnt have a history turning the ball over.


Golson is 19-4 as a starter? great, as soon as the playoff committee determines who gets in the playoff based on starting QB record then we'll be looking good, but until then ND cant win with Golson.

 

[Emcee77]

Blame Golson all you want. But Chris Brown fumbled at the goal-line. Cam fumbled trying to ice the game. Brindza missed two FG's. Maliki dropped the snap on an extra point that turned into a 3 point swing. Oh and the defense was horrendous.

Exactly. People can say what they want about ASU. In the first half of that game, Golson was careless and it really hurt the team. But NW just wasn't Golson's fault.

 

[TDHeysus]

Exactly. People can say what they want about ASU. In the first half of that game, Golson was careless and it really hurt the team. But NW just wasn't Golson's fault.

if the ASU game was an anomaly for Golson, he would get a pass. But that game just fit in line with a string of games he has had; he no longer gets the benefit of the doubt with me. maybe its unfair, but it is what it is.

 

[pkt77242]

Blame Golson all you want. But Chris Brown fumbled at the goal-line. Cam fumbled trying to ice the game. Brindza missed two FG's. Maliki dropped the snap on an extra point that turned into a 3 point swing. Oh and the defense was horrendous.

Most people aren't just blaming Golson, the whole team needs to cut down turnovers, but Golson has committed a ton of them this year. Also no one is saying the D played well in the NW game and most people have been bitching about the D for the past few games.

 

[phork]

...and I will...whats it, 20 turnovers this season alone? He has matched or exceeded Tommy's turonvers from a previous year? You better believe I'm blaming Golson.


Jameis winston even knows that his 6 int's in the previous 3 games was a problem; I laughed when I heard him say that because Golson had like 16, or 17 turnovers at the time.

Mailk cant possibly be any worse....cant possibly; as i said before lose with Zaire and score 20, or lose with Golson and score 40, end result is the same. at least one of them doesnt have a history turning the ball over.


Golson is 19-4 as a starter? great, as soon as the playoff committee determines who gets in the playoff based on starting QB record then we'll be looking good, but until then ND cant win with Golson.

Really? Ask Michigan how tenuous their QB situation is.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Everybody wants to dog on the defense, but do you guys realize that there have been 78 points scored on drives started because of an offensive turnover?

So sure our defense hasn't been great. But the offense has been putting them in terrible positions and on the field the whole game. Things would be a lot different right now if we weren't spotting teams more than a touchdown every game.

The may be true, but part of that is that we have one of the worst red zone defenses in the country. Yea, it doesn't help that the O keeps coughing up the ball, but once they do this D can be counted on to not do anything to mitigate the damage.

 

[Emcee77]

if the ASU game was an anomaly for Golson, he would get a pass. But that game just fit in line with a string of games he has had; he no longer gets the benefit of the doubt with me. maybe its unfair, but it is what it is.

A pass? The point is that he doesn't need a pass. His turnovers are not costing us games--with the partial exception of the ASU game (I maintain that the defense was partially responsible as well).

I don't know what the appropriate statistic is to demonstrate my point here. In basketball, the assist-to-turnover ratio is commonly cited. Is there an equivalent in football? There should be, if not. But whether or no, I think it is obvious that Golson is scoring enough points to make him the right choice at QB, even bearing in mind that he is also turning the ball more than might be expected.

 

[IRISH in MT]

...and I will...whats it, 20 turnovers this season alone? He has matched or exceeded Tommy's turonvers from a previous year? You better believe I'm blaming Golson.
Jameis winston even knows that his 6 int's in the previous 3 games was a problem; I laughed when I heard him say that because Golson had like 16, or 17 turnovers at the time.

Mailk cant possibly be any worse....cant possibly; as i said before lose with Zaire and score 20, or lose with Golson and score 40, end result is the same. at least one of them doesnt have a history turning the ball over.


Golson is 19-4 as a starter? great, as soon as the playoff committee determines who gets in the playoff based on starting QB record then we'll be looking good, but until then ND cant win with Golson.

EXACTLY!!! I used "Turnover Tommy" as our excuse for all of 2013. Couldn't wait to get Golson back... I never said EG was the reason we lost our games (although his play hasn't helped). My point of this thread is to simply state EG has too many turnovers and that he needs a break or a reality check. Maybe a light bulb would turn on watching a game or 2 from the sidelines. We all know EG can ball when he is on his game. We just need something to wake his @ss up!

 

[TDHeysus]

Really? Ask Michigan how tenuous their QB situation is.

i can give 2 f***s about michigan...it has NO bearing on Golson turning the ball over time after time. f*** michigan

 

[IrishinSyria]

A pass? The point is that he doesn't need a pass. His turnovers are not costing us games--with the partial exception of the ASU game (I maintain that the defense was partially responsible as well).

I don't know what the appropriate statistic is to demonstrate my point here. In basketball, the assist-to-turnover ratio is commonly cited. Is there an equivalent in football? There should be, if not. But whether or no, I think it is obvious that Golson is scoring enough points to make him the right choice at QB, even bearing in mind that he is also turning the ball over too much.

TD to turnover, QBR, there's a bunch of metrics out there...

Golson's good with all of them. Can't ignore how prolific he's been this season.

 

[gkIrish]

I'm not sure what's inconsistent there. Notre Dame was a top 5 TEAM in 2012 and droped 20+ spots so why isn't it fair to say the same about the coach? Jake Peavy was a Cy Young winner in 2007 and now he sucks. Things change

So NCAA coaches are ranked according to their team's rankings now? So Bob Stoops is not a top 25 coach. Got it. And Brian Kelly was the 5th best coach after week 8 but now he isn't in the top 25. You must be trolling.

 

[IrishinSyria]

35 touchdowns this season from Golson. He is the offense.

 

[wizards8507]

So NCAA coaches are ranked according to their team's rankings now? So Bob Stoops is not a top 25 coach. Got it. And Brian Kelly was the 5th best coach after week 8 but now he isn't in the top 25. You must be trolling.

It's not just you, but people have been on a real kick about taking my GENERAL points and then attacking them for not holding up in very specific, literal interpretations.

No, team ranking does not equal how good your coach is 1:1. However, IN GENERAL, a top coach with top talent would tend to have a top team. We have top talent and we do not have a top team. Therefore, I do not believe we have a top coach.

 

[irishff1014]

35 touchdowns this season from Golson. He is the offense.

Yes he gets credit for them but some of them we made by the WRS and something EG had no control over.

 

[IrishinSyria]

It's not just you, but people have been on a real kick about taking my GENERAL points and then attacking them for not holding up in very specific, literal interpretations.

No, team ranking does not equal how good your coach is 1:1. However, IN GENERAL, a top coach with top talent would tend to have a top team. We have top talent and we do not have a top team. Therefore, I do not believe we have a top coach.

What about in 2012, when we did not have top talent and did have a top team...

I'm on the record with having a couple issues with Kelly, but there's no way you can judge him as not a top coach based on the last 3 weeks of football. Also, the idea that we have top talent right now is very questionable. At the very least, you can point to several position groups (DBs and DL come to mind) where we very clearly do not have top talent playing. Unless you count Drue Tranquill and a gimpy Austin Collinsworth as "top talent"

 

[irishff1014]

What about in 2012, when we did not have top talent and did have a top team...

I'm on the record with having a couple issues with Kelly, but there's no way you can judge him as not a top coach based on the last 3 weeks of football. Also, the idea that we have top talent right now in very questionable. At the very least, you can point to several position groups (DBs and DL come to mind) where we very clearly do not have top talent playing. Unless you count Drue Tranquill and a gimpy Austin Collinsworth as "top talent"

Yes we were a good team but EVEtRYONE on this board knows we had more then average luck on our side.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Yes he gets credit for them but some of them we made by the WRS and something EG had no control over.

"we made by the WRS and something EG had no control over"

a: do you even English?

b: You could make the same argument for the turnovers. Weird deflections, balls literally hitting receivers in the chest and popping up to the other team, complete breakdowns of pass protection, etc... It doesn't matter. This team's scoring 30-50 points a game and Golson is CLEARLY the centerpiece of the offense. Even admitting that the turnovers are hurting us, Golson is a net positive for the team, and it's not even close.

c. Every QB benefits when his playmakers make plays.

 

[gkIrish]

It's not just you, but people have been on a real kick about taking my GENERAL points and then attacking them for not holding up in very specific, literal interpretations.

No, team ranking does not equal how good your coach is 1:1. However, IN GENERAL, a top coach with top talent would tend to have a top team. We have top talent and we do not have a top team. Therefore, I do not believe we have a top coach.

So again, Bob Stoops is not a top coach in your view? Because I didn't see Notre Dame ranked in the preseason top 5 and get blown out by 34 points at home.

 

[gkIrish]

Yes we were a good team but EVEtRYONE on this board knows we had more then average luck on our side.

I don't think Kansas St. losing or Ohio St. deciding to go to a bowl game during a 6-6 season is "good luck." There was a 70%+ chance we would have beat either of those teams to win the national championship.

 

[wizards8507]

So again, Bob Stoops is not a top coach in your view? Because I didn't see Notre Dame ranked in the preseason top 5 and get blown out by 34 points at home.

"Top coach" is not a permanent thing. This year, the 2014 football season, no, Bob Stoops has not been a top coach.

 

[irishff1014]

I don't think Kansas St. losing or Ohio St. deciding to go to a bowl game during a 6-6 season is "good luck." There was a 70%+ chance we would have beat either of those teams to win the national championship.

The stanford game and the Pitt game we had luck on our side.

 

[IrishinSyria]

"Top coach" is not a permanent thing. This year, the 2014 football season, no, Bob Stoops has not been a top coach.

This is crazy. If Stoops were to leave Oklahoma at the end of this year, the competition for his services next year would reshape the college football landscape. He easily would command top of the market $$$.

 

[Ndaccountant]

"Top coach" is not a permanent thing. This year, the 2014 football season, no, Bob Stoops has not been a top coach.

I would think being a good coach would extend much greater than one year, wouldn't you? Sure OU hasn't had the best year, but to suggest that Paul Johnson is a better coach this year than Stoops seems a bit over the top. One year doesn't make the coach, good or bad. Now, if you want to say that Kelly isn't a top coach 15 coach since his teams rarely finish the year ranked that high over the last five years.....I might side with you.

 

[irishff1014]

"we made by the WRS and something EG had no control over"

a: do you even English?

b: You could make the same argument for the turnovers. Weird deflections, balls literally hitting receivers in the chest and popping up to the other team, complete breakdowns of pass protection, etc... It doesn't matter. This team's scoring 30-50 points a game and Golson is CLEARLY the centerpiece of the offense. Even admitting that the turnovers are hurting us, Golson is a net positive for the team, and it's not even close.

c. Every QB benefits when his playmakers make plays.

I don't think every Int is but a lot are on him. What about every fumble? That's on his shoulders alone. He is a good QB but he isn't a great one.

 

[TDHeysus]

35 touchdowns this season from Golson. He is the offense.

an offense that turns the ball over 20+ times; continually puts the defense in horrible situations with picks, and fumbles, which puts the bar of winning games to just out of reach; kinda like the playoff this year, just out of reach

 

[gkIrish]

"Top coach" is not a permanent thing. This year, the 2014 football season, no, Bob Stoops has not been a top coach.

How can "top coach" be a fluid interpretation? It would literally have to change every week. Like I said earlier, Brian Kelly was a top coach up to week 8 but apparently isn't now? That's ridiculous.

Coach rankings can definitely change season to season but you absolutely have to look at the body of work.

 

[irishff1014]

How can "top coach" be a fluid interpretation? It would literally have to change every week. Like I said earlier, Brian Kelly was a top coach up to week 8 but apparently isn't now? That's ridiculous.

Coach rankings can definitely change season to season but you absolutely have to look at the body of work.

Of course he is a top 12 coach i would say. His play calling and mindset has cost this team some games.

 

[koonja]

Wiz, this is as crazy as you saying we had zero chance to be undefeated right now with KVR, Ishaq, and DD on the team.

A coach's 'talent' can change, but not year to year. Looking at it every 5 years or so would actually make sense.

 

[Grahambo]

The most beloved position on any football team is the backup QB.

I hope BVG takes Golson aside this week and tries to get him on the same page with the defensive alignments, he's been struggling with getting the front 7 in line.

I hope Coach Booker finally teaches Golson how to handle a FG snap. Tired of him dropping the ball on the FG try.

I hope Harry Hiestand teaches Golson how to block because man, the QB has been getting very little help from the OL.

Slow down with the EG kill business. Sure, he's had his fair share of mistakes but to solely blame him is misguided and if you aren't going to blame him yet still want to replace him then you're looking in the wrong spot. Its easier to blame the QB.

The defense let up 43 points to Northwestern.....I repeat, Northwestern.