How do I get this job?

woolybug25

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I don't know what I would do if I had to have a job where I had to be in the office at a specific time each morning. I am never late to meetings, but an 8-5 schedule would literally ravage my soul.
 
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koonja

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Maybe he's a great defense against the dark arts teacher, but happens to be a werewolf which causes his early morning tardiness.
 

wizards8507

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is this

is this

I don't know what I would do if I had to have a job where I had to be in the office at a specific time each morning. I am never late to meetings, but an 8-5 schedule would literally ravage my soul.
Leaving at 5 every day is amazing when you have a baby at home.

Maybe he's a great defense against the dark arts teacher, but happens to be a werewolf which causes his early morning tardiness.
tumblr_inline_n530lvYvfz1qbygev.gif
 

woolybug25

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This sounds like something Koon would do to his employer.

"but but but... they didn't stop me from being late every day... ;)
 

woolybug25

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Leaving at 5 every day is amazing when you have a baby at home.

Why is that? I can be home at any given time. I would rather have the flexibility to be home whenever I schedule it than being guaranteed being home by 5:30-6pm every day.
 
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koonja

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This sounds like something Koon would do to his employer.

"but but but... they didn't stop me from being late every day... ;)

I'm actually completely anal about being on time and never late for a meeting, lol. I have flex hours where I work and can work from home (although I don't because I'm new). So as long as I'm available between 9am-3pm, I'm OK. But I never show up later 8am. Late people bother the H out of me.

Couple times is OK, but the person who habitually shows up late is disrespectful, IDC how good they are.
 

wizards8507

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Why is that? I can be home at any given time. I would rather have the flexibility to be home whenever I schedule it than being guaranteed being home by 5:30-6pm every day.
Well yeah I can leave when I want but I don't think I've ever worked past 5:00 in this job. I usually get here early, work through lunch, and I'm out by 4:30.

I just meant that my schedule is generally 9 to 5ish, as opposed to my wife when she was an animal keeper for example. She worked all sorts of hours and random days of the week.
 

IrishLax

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I don't know what I would do if I had to have a job where I had to be in the office at a specific time each morning. I am never late to meetings, but an 8-5 schedule would literally ravage my soul.

I'm the same way, I pretty much start work at 7AM every day doing something somewhere... but I have no set time to be in the office. There are times when I won't set foot in there more than once in a week. As long as you're billing minimum 40 hours a week that's all that really matters and you build a schedule to fit your projects. If I had to work 8 to 6 not moving from my desk like people do in our new design group, I'd probably want to kill myself.

The part that cracks me up is that he makes $90k/year for 180 days of onsite work. So he basically gets $500 a day to show up at school, and he can't manage more than a 70% on time rate? Especially when school really does have a firm start time?And then worst of all... they try to fire him and can't, because of policy and bureaucracy.

I'd love to hear from teachers on this board:
1) How common it is for teachers to make that much money.
2) How common it is for teachers that are deficient at their jobs not to get fired even though they should.
 
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koonja

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I'm the same way, I pretty much start work at 7AM every day doing something somewhere... but I have no set time to be in the office. There are times when I won't set foot in there more than once in a week. As long as you're billing minimum 40 hours a week that's all that really matters and you build a schedule to fit your projects. If I had to work 8 to 6 not moving from my desk like people do in our new design group, I'd probably want to kill myself.

The part that cracks me up is that he makes $90k/year for 180 days of onsite work. So he basically gets $500 a day to show up at school, and he can't manage more than a 70% on time rate? Especially when school really does have a firm start time?And then worst of all... they try to fire him and can't, because of policy and bureaucracy.

I'd love to hear from teachers on this board:
1) How common it is for teachers to make that much money.
2) How common it is for teachers that are deficient at their jobs not to get fired even though they should.

Are you a consultant? You sound like a consultant.
 
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Wingman Ray

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Jeez. Im at the office every day by 630 and here til 530 with a lunch at my desk. This is after going to the gym at 5am.

Cant believe an elementary teacher gets paid 90k. An elementary teacher...wow.
 

tussin

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I'd love to hear from teachers on this board:
1) How common it is for teachers to make that much money.
2) How common it is for teachers that are deficient at their jobs not to get fired even though they should.

My parents are teachers... 1 is not common (at least in PA); 2 is very common.
 

ColinKSU

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I don't know what I would do if I had to have a job where I had to be in the office at a specific time each morning. I am never late to meetings, but an 8-5 schedule would literally ravage my soul.

I worked a job for eight years out of college that was flexible and didn't demand I was at work at a certain time. I'm now about nine months into an 8-5 job *and I pray for death every day.*
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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I don't know what I would do if I had to have a job where I had to be in the office at a specific time each morning. I am never late to meetings, but an 8-5 schedule would literally ravage my soul.

I'm very much the same way. I'm an early morning person and would have no trouble being there at 8 but I enjoy flexibility. I enjoy being leisure about my mornings. If I set a time to be somewhere, I'm not truly relaxed, everything revolves around, "how much time is left".

I like routine but I also starve when I feel externally locked into a pattern. I need to feel like I have autonomy over my life and day, otherwise I become haggard quickly.

I don't know if that is oppositional disorder or just a personality quirk but my wife and I are very different in that regard.
 

IrishLax

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Are you a consultant? You sound like a consultant.

"Consulting engineering."

We have clients who contract us for specific projects... everything from "design a brand new skyscraper" to "can you come take a look at this leak we have?"
 

wizards8507

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"Consulting engineering."

We have clients who contract us for specific projects... everything from "design a brand new skyscraper" to "can you come take a look at this leak we have?"
I always wonder about the consultant mentality/mindset. Same with public accounting and other professional firms whose work revolves around a client. Do you ever feel a disconnect or lack of affinity between you and your employer because you're always out doing work for a client? I've been in corporate since I graduated and I like that I do work for the company that signs my paychecks.
 

EddytoNow

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I'm the same way, I pretty much start work at 7AM every day doing something somewhere... but I have no set time to be in the office. There are times when I won't set foot in there more than once in a week. As long as you're billing minimum 40 hours a week that's all that really matters and you build a schedule to fit your projects. If I had to work 8 to 6 not moving from my desk like people do in our new design group, I'd probably want to kill myself.

The part that cracks me up is that he makes $90k/year for 180 days of onsite work. So he basically gets $500 a day to show up at school, and he can't manage more than a 70% on time rate? Especially when school really does have a firm start time?And then worst of all... they try to fire him and can't, because of policy and bureaucracy.

I'd love to hear from teachers on this board:
1) How common it is for teachers to make that much money.
2) How common it is for teachers that are deficient at their jobs not to get fired even though they should.

1. First, you would need some clarification on what that $90,000 per year includes. Many districts include every penny spent on the cost of a teacher when they report the teacher's annual salary. That teacher could be making $45,000 per year with the rest going to a pension program, health care costs, the district's share of taxes, the cost of substitute teachers, supplies purchased for an average classroom, busing that teacher's students to school, etc., etc. It's a common practice used to make it look like teachers are over-paid.
2. Unfortunately, it is very common for incompetent teachers to remain in their jobs. However, it is not the process of removing a teacher that is keeping these teachers employed. It is the failure of the local administrators to document the teacher's incompetence that keeps them employed. Firing a teacher is normally as simple as documenting ineffective teaching over a period of two or three years and providing an improvement plan that the teacher fails to complete. Much of the time a firing is based upon a personality clash between the teacher and the administrator. The administrator has given that teacher positive evaluations over a period of years and wants to fire the teacher over a single disagreement. Having failed to document that the teacher was incompetent, the administrator has no evidence to support his or her claim that the teacher is not doing his or her job. In some cases, the administrators manufacture a reason to get rid of the teacher that by-passes the method they should be using.

True Story - A former teaching colleague of mine suffers from migraine headaches. He requested a change in lighting for his classroom because the fluorescent lights brought on his migraine headaches. He also asked for a sign to remind colleagues and students not to wear cologne or perfume into his room. These also trigger migraine headaches. The administration refused to accommodate his request even though they were obligated to under the Americans with Disabilities Act. After several requests were denied, he filed a lawsuit under the ADA. The district was forced to comply. The total costs of the requested accommodations was about $200.

This past summer the district laid off this 27-year veteran teacher by eliminating his full-time technology teaching position. One of the school board members admitted afterward that they had wanted to fire this teacher for a few years (dating back to his lawsuit). Since the teacher in question had 27 years of positive teaching evaluations they could not legally fire him under Michigan law (which requires 3 years of documented ineffective teaching and failure to follow through on a personal improvement plan). Instead, they cut a valuable student program so they could lay-off this teacher. As soon as they would no longer be forced to rehire the teacher they plan to reinstate the technology program. So, in other words, the administration, failing to document ineffective teaching, found a way to usurp the law and get rid of a teacher who had made them look bad through his lawsuit.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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I always wonder about the consultant mentality/mindset. Same with public accounting and other professional firms whose work revolves around a client. Do you ever feel a disconnect or lack of affinity between you and your employer because you're always out doing work for a client? I've been in corporate since I graduated and I like that I do work for the company that signs my paychecks.

Yes, I don't much care for the company that signs my checks. It feels like they simply profit from my work but they don't go above and beyond for their employees. Bench pay is rather pedestrian and their benefits are garbage.

The salary is good and the work life is great but I've struck a deal with my current client to transition over to them to do the same thing as an FTE. I much prefer being a part of a vibrant, developing ecosystem as opposed to being the outsider who comes in for a short period then leaves again.

With that said, the nice thing about consulting is the changing nature of the work. I am not a man built for monotony, probably few are. The consulting world gives fresh challenges that keep you mentally active and engaged, which my hyperactive mind appreciates. It's very easy for me to become complacent if I'm not given some free reign to do free development (find new things to fix).
 
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BeauBenken

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I'm the same way, I pretty much start work at 7AM every day doing something somewhere... but I have no set time to be in the office. There are times when I won't set foot in there more than once in a week. As long as you're billing minimum 40 hours a week that's all that really matters and you build a schedule to fit your projects. If I had to work 8 to 6 not moving from my desk like people do in our new design group, I'd probably want to kill myself.

The part that cracks me up is that he makes $90k/year for 180 days of onsite work. So he basically gets $500 a day to show up at school, and he can't manage more than a 70% on time rate? Especially when school really does have a firm start time?And then worst of all... they try to fire him and can't, because of policy and bureaucracy.

I'd love to hear from teachers on this board:
1) How common it is for teachers to make that much money.
2) How common it is for teachers that are deficient at their jobs not to get fired even though they should.

I'm not teaching yet, but...
1) Does not seem common at all, but it likely depends location and other factors.
2) Tenure.
 

IrishLax

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I always wonder about the consultant mentality/mindset. Same with public accounting and other professional firms whose work revolves around a client. Do you ever feel a disconnect or lack of affinity between you and your employer because you're always out doing work for a client? I've been in corporate since I graduated and I like that I do work for the company that signs my paychecks.

Well, I don't think it's really the same as working for a Big Four place or BAH or even the Government contracting outfit I worked for out of school. I get what you're saying for places like that, but I work on about 5-10 different projects at a time for various clients. So it's not like I'm beholden to a particular client at any given time, or for a long stretch of time... I think my situation is more akin to working at a law firm than a typical consulting company.
 
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koonja

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Well, I don't think it's really the same as working for a Big Four place or BAH or even the Government contracting outfit I worked for out of school. I get what you're saying for places like that, but I work on about 5-10 different projects at a time for various clients. So it's not like I'm beholden to a particular client at any given time, or for a long stretch of time... I think my situation is more akin to working at a law firm than a typical consulting company.

I work one one project at a time for one client, for anywhere from 3 months to 3 years (making those up, but in general). This allows me to dive in more and it feels more intimate for a lack of a better term. Also, 50% of our business is to one client.
 

ACamp1900

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I have worked with teachers and admin like this at various sites,... it's an education thing maybe? It drives me crazy. I'm very much policy driven and am always on time, I work with someone who is never on time, always leaves early and our school has a pretty lax attitude.
 

EvilleIrish

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I'm the same way, I pretty much start work at 7AM every day doing something somewhere... but I have no set time to be in the office. There are times when I won't set foot in there more than once in a week. As long as you're billing minimum 40 hours a week that's all that really matters and you build a schedule to fit your projects. If I had to work 8 to 6 not moving from my desk like people do in our new design group, I'd probably want to kill myself.

The part that cracks me up is that he makes $90k/year for 180 days of onsite work. So he basically gets $500 a day to show up at school, and he can't manage more than a 70% on time rate? Especially when school really does have a firm start time?And then worst of all... they try to fire him and can't, because of policy and bureaucracy.

I'd love to hear from teachers on this board:
1) How common it is for teachers to make that much money.
2) How common it is for teachers that are deficient at their jobs not to get fired even though they should.

1 is VERY uncommon. I make about a third of that as a history teacher. 2 is becoming much more common in Indiana. Accountability for teachers has reached extreme levels here and it's part of the reason we have such a shortage of teachers. As far as your point about teachers only working 180 days a year, you have to keep in mind that MOST teachers do much more outside of the class and even on weekends. My wife is a special education teacher and works a minimum of 60 hours a week.
 

ACamp1900

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90 k for a teacher isn't that uncommon, at least in Cali (I'd assume the same in NJ and NY) if you have a MA and 15 or so years put in then you're in that general ballpark.
 
C

Cackalacky

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I'm the same way, I pretty much start work at 7AM every day doing something somewhere... but I have no set time to be in the office. There are times when I won't set foot in there more than once in a week. As long as you're billing minimum 40 hours a week that's all that really matters and you build a schedule to fit your projects. If I had to work 8 to 6 not moving from my desk like people do in our new design group, I'd probably want to kill myself.

Its not so bad....sometimes its crazy on deadline day:
96809341_218661c.jpg


I did the consulting engineering for a long time and loved the schedule. My time spent was roughly 40% Office/60% Field. Work hard go home early. Keep billable hours up. Awesome.

Still doing consulting but focused on designing at the moment. Field work is down to about 10%.
 

EvilleIrish

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90 k for a teacher isn't that uncommon, at least in Cali (I'd assume the same in NJ and NY) if you have a MA and 15 or so years put in then you're in that general ballpark.

I guess it does depend on where you live and cost of living. Indiana normally tops out at around 70k.
 

pkt77242

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I'm the same way, I pretty much start work at 7AM every day doing something somewhere... but I have no set time to be in the office. There are times when I won't set foot in there more than once in a week. As long as you're billing minimum 40 hours a week that's all that really matters and you build a schedule to fit your projects. If I had to work 8 to 6 not moving from my desk like people do in our new design group, I'd probably want to kill myself.

The part that cracks me up is that he makes $90k/year for 180 days of onsite work. So he basically gets $500 a day to show up at school, and he can't manage more than a 70% on time rate? Especially when school really does have a firm start time?And then worst of all... they try to fire him and can't, because of policy and bureaucracy.

I'd love to hear from teachers on this board:
1) How common it is for teachers to make that much money.
2) How common it is for teachers that are deficient at their jobs not to get fired even though they should.

While this process is very long it seems that the school district was just stupid. They failed to give him the notice of inefficiency and (because it is collectively bargained) his 90 days to correct it. It is pretty similar for most companies but usually a shorter time frame. For example I have worked as a manager for a large national bank and if you want to fire someone for tardiness, you need to document every instance of lateness (and it needs to be at least 5 min. otherwise HR won't accept it) and then give them warning after so many (3 if I remember correctly), then usually a corrective action after 2 more, so 5 total and then you can fire them once they reach 7. It usually takes many weeks and sometimes a month or two to get rid of the employee by the time it is all said and done. Firing people for tardiness/absences was always a big pain in the ass.
 

IrishinSyria

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Yeah, it seems like a willful misreading of the article to say he can't get fired for this. If a lawsuit gets dismissed for failure to provide notice, that doesn't mean it won't win in the future when notice is given.
 

Johannes

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Right now my dream is to work an 8-5 Mon-Fri. I work for a 24-hour/365 shop that has mandatory minimum staffing based on qualifications and seniority. I've been stuck on night shift for the past two years. It wouldn't be so bad if days off were guaranteed, but inevitably there will be hours to fill and forced overtime to work on the weekend. Don't get me wrong, I love my job. There's a strong element of service to the community involved and I get satisfaction out of truly helping people in my work life. But I also get satisfaction out of going camping or knowing I can drink a beer with my friends on my days off.

So stories like this kind of piss me off. Especially when I'm up "early" on a short turn going into a 16. Fuck that guy.
 

IrishLax

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Yeah, it seems like a willful misreading of the article to say he can't get fired for this. If a lawsuit gets dismissed for failure to provide notice, that doesn't mean it won't win in the future when notice is given.

Who said can't get fired?

We're discussing a well-compensated individual who shows up late 111 times out of 360 days to a profession where punctuality is of paramount importance... and then he isn't terminated, because they didn't properly document the warnings he was give or put him on a formal "improvement plan." Part of that is a lousy job by the administrators, but the larger part of that is "it's really hard to fire someone without jumping through a bunch of hoops."

The discussion has been about those two things... his level of compensation, and the difficulty of firing a teach. Personally, I've heard of well-paid teachers in my area. And I've heard about how hard it can be to fire a teacher. But I've never heard of someone being that well paid and objectively deficient in their job and difficult to fire.

Usually when I've heard about someone being hard to fire it's because of the subjective "they're a bad teacher." The well compensated teachers I know (like my uncle) are usually very intelligent "go the extra mile" types with a documented career of scholastic accomplishment. This guy seems like a unicorn making $90k and behaving how he does.
 
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