Hazing...Thoughts?

[GoldenDomer15]

I'm sure it has been discussed before, but as one who works in collegiate athletics I'm interested on everyone's take on hazing. The policy at my institution (and most institutions) is a zero tolerance policy. I know that hazing happens, but to what extent I don't know. I'm around athletes all day and see certain things happen that some may see as hazing, but as a former collegiate athlete myself, I see it a different way. With that being said I have professional responsibility to report anything that I see as hazing. I draw the line at anything that may put the athletes in danger or will reflect negatively on the university. I have yet to see anything like this.

"I heard they took shirts, put them in toilets and made them put them on," he said. "But stuff like that goes on sometimes. There is a certain amount of hazing, I guess, that is just acceptable, but this is to the extreme. ... It's just gotten real contentious." "In addition to putting T-shirts in toilets, this dad said his son told him that several older players urinated or defecated in or on the backpacks of younger players."

Parents Fear Retaliation Over Hazing Allegations - Athletic Business

^^This kind of stuff is just dumb and I don't see how this builds the relationships.^^

When I was participating in sports I saw hazing as a way to have fun at the younger athletes expense and see what they are made of. Some of the people that hazed me in high school/college became life long friends. Then again, they didn't take deuce in my backpack...

Anyways, wanted to get some dialogue going on this because I can't deal with looking at that "Rumored Violations" thread anymore.

 

[BobbyMac]

Hazing is great (no italics) when done with a purpose.

Hazing that puts someone in harm's way or goes against the building of a team is counter productive and should be eliminated.

I received it, I dished it out. It was the cost of admission to the team.

.

 

[MNIrishman]

Yeah I'm all in favor of light hazing that builds relationships. In scouting, I remember my first year the youngest scouts had to cook more than their share or go and get firewood when it was needed. That was good for team building even though it sucked sometimes.

On another occasion someone came into my tent while we were sleeping, poured a bunch of toothpaste into my friend's sleeping bag (he's a heavy sleeper), and dragged my gear into the woods where it got soaked by the rain. That was less ok.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

It is what it is, just can't let it get out of hand. My wrestlers throughout the years have hazed the new guys from one degree to another, some being silly right of passage stuff, and others being way across the line type stuff.

At the beginning of my time, I'd just let it go, remembering going through the same stuff as a kid, but now draw a firm line in the sand. When you watch enough of it, you notice patterns, like a guy trying to motivate younger guys to work hard and earn their keep, and bullies trying to make the younger guys miserable. The former is a leader, the latter is an a-sshole. No team needs a-ssholes......

Physical sports are always going to have fights at practice, older guys with a chip on their shoulder, younger guys with entitlement issues, etc. but it is the coach's job to keep everything at an acceptable level, and instill leadership in veterans to not be a-ssholes...

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

 

[greyhammer90]

Reps.

 

[WaveDomer]

The problem with hazing, to me, is that there is always going to be a cat that takes it too far. Then it's a cycle "Oh, this happened to me when I was first on the team, so now I'm going to do it."

 

[IrishinTN]

My fraternity had hard hazing, but it was more like military boot camp. We did a lot of physical units for weeks and it made us tighter as a pledge class to see each other pushed to the edge. You really get to know each other when you are pushed that hard physically and really learn to count on each other. Plus older brothers respect you knowing you did the same things they did. We had the tightest brotherhood on campus, knew everything about our brothers and our fraternity (can't stand fraternities that don't even know each others names) and it was all driven to that purpose.

No forced drinking, getting naked or any paddles, etc. And I was in the best shape of my life, too.

And we are all still in contact and very involved in the Fraternity affairs even 20 years later.

 

[GoldenDomer15]

My fraternity had hard hazing, but it was more like military boot camp. We did a lot of physical units for weeks and it made us tighter as a pledge class to see each other pushed to the edge. You really get to know each other when you are pushed that hard physically and really learn to count on each other. Plus older brothers respect you knowing you did the same things they did. We had the tightest brotherhood on campus, knew everything about our brothers and our fraternity (can't stand fraternities that don't even know each others names) and it was all driven to that purpose.

No forced drinking, getting naked or any paddles, etc. And I was in the best shape of my life, too.

And we are all still in contact and very involved in the Fraternity affairs even 20 years later.

Had a cousin go through this and it was awful for him. Every experience is different depending on those dishing it out. Really messed him up for awhile.

 

[Emcee77]

Yeah I'm all in favor of light hazing that builds relationships. In scouting, I remember my first year the youngest scouts had to cook more than their share or go and get firewood when it was needed. That was good for team building even though it sucked sometimes.

Right. I have no problem with this type of stuff. Asking younger players to be the ones to perform certain tasks that have to be performed by someone, like filling up the water bottles or carrying gear out to the fields or whatever, that stuff I have no problem with.

On another occasion someone came into my tent while we were sleeping, poured a bunch of toothpaste into my friend's sleeping bag (he's a heavy sleeper), and dragged my gear into the woods where it got soaked by the rain. That was less ok.

Right again. This crosses the line, imo. Doing something disagreeable to a person, without fear of reprisal, merely to assert your dominance or higher status is essentially mild bulllying. Never a good reason for that.

 

[Henges24]

Report: N.J. High School Football Players Sexually Assaulted Freshmen

 

[ptrigger]

Report: N.J. High School Football Players Sexually Assaulted Freshmen

thats my old high school. Also a former ND player, I think Hoyte went there.

 

[GowerND11]

When I was a freshman in high school on the football team we were hazed. Like others said he had to do the bitch work. Clean the locker room, carry other players' should pads, get the drinks ready, etc. There were other times we were physically hazed. No one had it horrible, it wasn't like we were tortured, but we did have to run through the gauntlet, get hit every now and then, and so on. Partially, I can see how that is wrong. At the same time, it made us tougher. None of the older players went out of their way to do harm, and they also always had our backs. When another student from a rival school started trouble with me the older players immediately were there for me and had my back.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I agree that mild hazing to build teamwork, camaraderie, or to show you truly want to be part of the group is OK, but too often you get the asshole that always takes it too far and it becomes counterproductive and abusive. Saban banned all hazing at Bama, saying it didn't help build teamwork or good relationships.

When I was a 1st year football player in HS, the senior class had several bullies and their hazing did nothing to build camaraderie, a sense of team first, or anything else good. Tore the team apart and caused each class to hate the others.

As a fraternity pledge, I thought they did a good job of making us work for the privilege of becoming a member and coming together as a class. Mostly yard & house work, fetching beers for the full members, cleaning up after dinner & parties, etc. The worst they did to us was take us out into the country and drop us off with nothing but our underwear or rub Vaseline in our hair.

 

[PANDFAN]

The horrific hazing that canceled a school’s football season | New York Post

An unnamed parent told the New Jersey publication the daily incidents would begin with a howling noise from a senior football player, followed by locker room lights going off. A freshman football player would then be pinned to the floor, his arms and feet held down by upperclassmen. The victim would be lifted into the air and a finger forced in his rectum. On some occasions, that finger would then be shoved into the freshman’s mouth.

who the f#ck would put their finger in some dudes butt??? and if one of my friends had done that, i wouldn't be friends..f#cking gross

 

[IrishinTN]

The horrific hazing that canceled a school’s football season | New York Post

An unnamed parent told the New Jersey publication the daily incidents would begin with a howling noise from a senior football player, followed by locker room lights going off. A freshman football player would then be pinned to the floor, his arms and feet held down by upperclassmen. The victim would be lifted into the air and a finger forced in his rectum. On some occasions, that finger would then be shoved into the freshman’s mouth.

who the f#ck would put their finger in some dudes butt??? and if one of my friends had done that, i wouldn't be friends..f#cking gross

Yeah, that is the "crossing the line" part. Not sure why people would do some of these excessive things

 

[BGIF]

thats my old high school. Also a former ND player, I think Hoyte went there.

Yes he did.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Actually, from any broad perspective point of view, hazing by "amateurs" with little scope to their experience or maturity is just asking to eliminate possible useful team members rather than somehow strengthen the whole or the potential of the team. Binding the team together is the {wise} coach's job.

In coaching, any coach with any real sense realizes that "one size fits all" is NOT the correct approach to maximizing the player's ability to contribute on and off the field. Different humans take "dominance" and embarrassment differently. It is easily possible that a relatively introverted person can be a real stud with tremendous ability, a desire for friendship and loyalty built in, and a willingness to give all he's got for the team goals. But, like so-called "kidding" [which in pre-adults always has a somewhat hurtful side aimed at a real deficiency in the kidded], this behavior of hazing is for that person a form of violence.

People who argue that they want nobody on "their" team who isn't willing to subjugate themselves to forms of dominance and aggression without rejecting the perpetrators, seems to me to forget what lining up and smashing your enemy in the face is all about.

I'm for getting all the contributing athletes that I can, handling them each as to maximize the chance that they'll be contributors, teaching them to be civilized adults off the field and aggressive semi-thugs on it. Allowing older team members to haze people for their own yucks [don't tell me that these guys are thinking deep sociological thoughts while they're doing this] does not cohere with my plans as a coach or lifeguide.

 

[BGIF]

Actually, from any broad perspective point of view, hazing by "amateurs" with little scope to their experience or maturity is just asking to eliminate possible useful team members rather than somehow strengthen the whole or the potential of the team. Binding the team together is the {wise} coach's job.

In coaching, any coach with any real sense realizes that "one size fits all" is NOT the correct approach to maximizing the player's ability to contribute on and off the field. Different humans take "dominance" and embarrassment differently. It is easily possible that a relatively introverted person can be a real stud with tremendous ability, a desire for friendship and loyalty built in, and a willingness to give all he's got for the team goals. But, like so-called "kidding" [which in pre-adults always has a somewhat hurtful side aimed at a real deficiency in the kidded], this behavior of hazing is for that person a form of violence.

People who argue that they want nobody on "their" team who isn't willing to subjugate themselves to forms of dominance and aggression without rejecting the perpetrators, seems to me to forget what lining up and smashing your enemy in the face is all about.

I'm for getting all the contributing athletes that I can, handling them each as to maximize the chance that they'll be contributors, teaching them to be civilized adults off the field and aggressive semi-thugs on it. Allowing older team members to haze people for their own yucks [don't tell me that these guys are thinking deep sociological thoughts while they're doing this] does not cohere with my plans as a coach or lifeguide.

Bravo!

 

[GoldenDomer15]

The horrific hazing that canceled a school’s football season | New York Post

An unnamed parent told the New Jersey publication the daily incidents would begin with a howling noise from a senior football player, followed by locker room lights going off. A freshman football player would then be pinned to the floor, his arms and feet held down by upperclassmen. The victim would be lifted into the air and a finger forced in his rectum. On some occasions, that finger would then be shoved into the freshman’s mouth.

who the f#ck would put their finger in some dudes butt??? and if one of my friends had done that, i wouldn't be friends..f#cking gross

Prior to moving to Grand Rapids, Michigan I lived in Fishers, IN. A rival school of ours, Carmel HS, had a similar incident involving highlighters being shoved up players butt's. Just doesn't ring team building to me...

Carmel students charged; four basketball coaches resign - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

 

[wizards8507]

Sad that "common sense" is the obvious solution to this but we seem to have lost that in our society. "Common sense" says it's okay to make freshmen clean up the tackling dummies after practice but not okay to strap a kid's penis to a Volvo and drive around to see if he can keep up.