Gender & Politics

irishff1014

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LA City is about to use taxpayer dollars to convert all restroom at their fire houses to gender neutral. The workers doing the work will be paid a prevailing wage so it will come at a considerable cost. This is being done without any cause. No known transgender people currently employed at a station nor any complaints from citizens trying to use a restroom at a fire station. So I guess this is when it leaves "their bedroom" and hits my pocket book.

Because you mentioned this there is some counties,cities and states that don't let fire/ems sleep in one large bunk room instead they made individual bunk rooms or put curtains up and separated the room.
 
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Buster Bluth

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I remember when the Supreme Court ruled on gay marriage and commenting that Tranny's and 'others' were going to be next. While I feel that I was right, I am really concerned about where our country is going.

How many transgender people are there? Last I've read, it's <1%, something like 0.6%. That's compared to 4% who identify as homosexual.

If you lined 100 Americans up, fittingly half of one person would be the wrong sex for what their mind thinks.

This is not some national emergency. It's another failure of our media system. While I can't show you how wrong Americans are on the prevalence of transgender people, it's worth noting that last year only 9% of Americans accurately selected the "<5%" when asked the size of the homosexual population in this country:

xmzmomy3wukj_s0fqk3yfq.png


Americans Greatly Overestimate Percent Gay, Lesbian in U.S. | Gallup

It seems like Americans are being scared of a nonexistent problem, yet again. It happens too often.

I present the January 2017 Issue of National Geographic:

gender-revolution-ngm-covers.ngsversion.1482248469304.png

The best thing about this is that the same guy who owns National Geographic owns Fox News and he is trolling the dollars right out of the social conservatives who will turn on his cable news channel to hear the rallying cries against this perceived social decay.

How did we get here? Where is this going?

Generations in our country have taken on great pursuits in building a nation, great wars, technology, and an industrial revolution that propelled us to being a global superpower.

We have now moved on from defeating communism, putting a man on the moon, globalization, and the internet generation to coming up with a better way to come to terms with our penis.

Ours will be the generation to put up that new 3rd, 4th, and 5th bathroom option!

This deserves one big "are you serious chief?"

We have now moved on from defeating communism, blah blah blah to a bunch of softie old guys who are scared of a tiny percentage of people having issues with their gender and not being afraid to have to hide it anymore.
 
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gkIrish

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How many transgender people are there? Last I've read, it's <1%, something like 0.6%. That's compared to 4% who identify as homosexual.

If you lined 100 Americans up, fittingly half of one person would be the wrong sex for what their mind thinks.

This is not some national emergency.

I find the way you phrased that interesting. It seems to me that either (a) the brain knows what's up and something went wrong anatomically or (b) the anatomy is right and the brain is not thinking clearly.

I personally think (b) is the much more likely scenario and gender identity is a major mental disorder. I think the focus should be on figuring out how to treat that disorder rather than accepting it as a choice.

Does this logic also apply to homosexuality? I'm not sure. I think there are enough differences between homosexuality and transgenderism that you can "accept" the first but not the second. I view homosexuality as a the person/mind choosing to use their anatomy in a way that it was not really intended to be used. That's very different from believing you have the wrong anatomy in the first place.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Many people are, but enabling and encouraging mental illness is really not Libertarian.

You don't enable or encourage a mental illness, by the definition of a mental illness. It simply exists. The difference now is this 0.6% of the population with this condition is refusing to live their entire lives hiding it.

To add to Bishop's post, there's something happening in the middle- and high schools that goes far beyond "gender-atypical thoughts." A lot of these kids aren't having gender atypical thoughts at all. This has become the new nonconformity, a way for awkward and/or antisocial kids to express how different they are. The kids that are identifying as trans today are the same kids that would have identified as "goth" or "emo" ten years ago. Pumping those kids full of hormones and validating their delusions are locking them into what would otherwise be a phase they'd grow out of with maturity.

I don't agree with your generalization on goths and whatnot but I think you're correct that the introduction of hormones and such to children should be a cause for concern. It should be a last resort, if it isn't already. Given how we over prescribe drugs to kids for ADHD, etc...I'm not optimistic and I think the pendulum will swing too far for a time. That's an unfortunate side effect of recognizing legitimate transgender mental issues within our population.
 
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Buster Bluth

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I find the way you phrased that interesting. It seems to me that either (a) the brain knows what's up and something went wrong anatomically or (b) the anatomy is right and the brain is not thinking clearly.

I personally think (b) is the much more likely scenario and gender identity is a major mental disorder. I think the focus should be on figuring out how to treat that disorder rather than accepting it as a choice.

Does this logic also apply to homosexuality? I'm not sure. I think there are enough differences between homosexuality and transgenderism that you can "accept" the first but not the second. I view homosexuality as a the person/mind choosing to use their anatomy in a way that it was not really intended to be used. That's very different from believing you have the wrong anatomy in the first place.

My assumption is that homosexuality and transgenderism are the result of some wires crossed up in the ol' brain. I mean clearly it's a biological mistake... But given that there isn't a victim like with pedophilia (and that's a key difference for all of the slippery slope people...), it doesn't bother me at all.
 

gkIrish

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My assumption is that homosexuality and transgenderism are the result of some wires crossed up in the ol' brain. I mean clearly it's a biological mistake... But given that there isn't a victim like with pedophilia (and that's a key difference for all of the slippery slope people...), it doesn't bother me at all.

What about people who don't disclose all the facts when dating/sleeping with others? I think I would be pretty upset if I found out after the fact that the person I slept with did not originally have a vagina.

The trans community would probably tell you they have no ethical duty to disclose anything but I would say their partner could potentially be a victim.
 

connor_in

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What about people who don't disclose all the facts when dating/sleeping with others? I think I would be pretty upset if I found out after the fact that the person I slept with did not originally have a vagina.

The trans community would probably tell you they have no ethical duty to disclose anything but I would say their partner could potentially be a victim.

Have any of you ever watched Bachelor Party with Tom Hanks?...cue the scene with his short friend...
 

NDPhilly

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Homosexuals and homosexuality as a whole would be a lot more accepted if some of them weren't running around naked at gay pride parades. Love to hear what someone like Peter Thiel thinks of "LGBT culture".
 

Booslum31

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I honestly don't care what gender someone chooses to identify as. 99% of the time it has absolutely no effect on my life. Maybe there is a 1%... like the stupid bathroom fights... that might effect me and my family some day, but meh.

IMO, people spend way too much time focused on media-driven fake problems than actual shit affecting our current lives and the future for our families.


Totally agree. This falls at about 300th on the list of most pressing issues facing our nation. I know it's important to those tangled up in it but the media (who no longer even pretends to be unbiased) jams it in our face like it's the second coming of Rubella. UGH!
 

BobbyMac

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Does anybody even know who this is? If not right click, select search Google for image.

He was driving parents crazy back in the 80's.

Whatever happened to a mohawk, a neck tat, a barbell in your eye brow or a hula hoop in your earlobe?

Newsflash: If this guy looks like this now, give your kids a chance to grow out of their phase.

2691F20500000578-2991701-image-m-149_1426174028363.jpg
 

ulukinatme

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What about people who don't disclose all the facts when dating/sleeping with others? I think I would be pretty upset if I found out after the fact that the person I slept with did not originally have a vagina.

The trans community would probably tell you they have no ethical duty to disclose anything but I would say their partner could potentially be a victim.

Have any of you ever watched Bachelor Party with Tom Hanks?...cue the scene with his short friend...

I was thinking the Dundee Sexuality Test, hopefully it doesn't come to that

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bsW3LkcYtD4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Of course, that does nothing for post-op identification.
Also, to comment on an individual being a victim if their partner didn't disclose their original sexuality, most definitely they would be a victim.
 
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Buster Bluth

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What about people who don't disclose all the facts when dating/sleeping with others? I think I would be pretty upset if I found out after the fact that the person I slept with did not originally have a vagina.

The trans community would probably tell you they have no ethical duty to disclose anything but I would say their partner could potentially be a victim.

That's a fascinating legal question.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Homosexuals and homosexuality as a whole would be a lot more accepted if some of them weren't running around naked at gay pride parades. Love to hear what someone like Peter Thiel thinks of "LGBT culture".

Homosexuals would be a lot more accepted if people stopped generalizing the actions of a few loud clowns as representing the whole?

Seems like that sorta thing happens all too often. With political parties/views, religions, races, etc.
 

wizards8507

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My assumption is that homosexuality and transgenderism are the result of some wires crossed up in the ol' brain. I mean clearly it's a biological mistake... But given that there isn't a victim like with pedophilia (and that's a key difference for all of the slippery slope people...), it doesn't bother me at all.
The issue (my issue at least) is not with ACTUAL transgender people. My issue is with children as young as three being indulged and encouraged in the delusion that they're transgender when, in fact, they're just kids going through a phase. A female who exhibited traditionally male behaviors and interests used to be called a tomboy. Now she's given testosterone injections and breast reduction surgeries and told she's ACTUALLY a boy.

In other words, my problem is not with trans people. It's with society for using the trans issue to mess up these confused kids.
 

BGIF

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New 'Pronoun Pins' at University of Kansas to Push Proper Gender Usage | Heat Street
By Emily Zanotti | 2:32 pm, December 29, 2016

Buttons, however, are limited to only three choices, female, male, and non-conforming. The other 37 or so genders, now identified thanks to social justice warriors on Tumblr, have not yet received individualized buttons. Otherkin, digigenders, and enbyfluids will likely have to wait.




https://ageofshitlords.com/list-of-all-tumblr-genders-so-far/

By STSAdmin - January 24, 2016
Update: as at 08 October, 2016, this list has been updated with 35 new genders.
 
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Legacy

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Libertarian has nothing to do with it. The kid on that cover started his "transition" at age THREE. Libertarianism is based on the harm principle. It says you can do whatever you want and the government can't stop you unless you're causing harm to others. The three year old doesn't get to do what he wants and the parents are causing harm.

2016 Libertarian Party Platform


1.4 Personal Relationships

Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the government’s treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, license or restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships.

3.5 Rights and Discrimination

Libertarians embrace the concept that all people are born with certain inherent rights. We reject the idea that a natural right can ever impose an obligation upon others to fulfill that “right.” We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should neither deny nor abridge any individual’s human right based upon sex, wealth, ethnicity, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation. Members of private organizations retain their rights to set whatever standards of association they deem appropriate, and individuals are free to respond with ostracism, boycotts and other free-market solutions.

Should we legislate behavior by laws, for example, on bathroom access either for gender identity or for birth gender? Wouldn't a Libertarian say that neither is correct?

From Libertarian Platform Preamble:
We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.

We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

Or, as dublinirish put it,
why do you care so much what other people do with their own lives? worry about your own shit
 
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Blazers46

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The normalization and promotion of child abuse and mental illness isn't the appropriate venue for a live-and-let-live attitude.


I don't care where a 40 year old trans lady wants to take a piss, but I do care about what this whole thing is doing to our children and how the normalization of trans is going to change how the state treats parents. Mark my words, in our lifetime we will see a parent lose custody of their child because they denied hormone therapy.

Interesting story. I used to work for Child Protective Services. We had a training full of about 25-30 Protective Service workers. The state trainers had us go through scenarios and do mock safety assessments and talk about what would we should do and what the best course of action would be.

One scenario was a Christian father that had a 10 year old son that was a closet transgender. When the father found out about the kid being transgender it made him angry. The father, in the scenario, starts throwing things and throwing a tantrum. Neighbors see this and call the police. They interview the boy and the boy, in the scenario, says that he does not feel safe.


The advice the trainer gives is that since the dad had an angry outburst after finding out his son wants to be his daughter instead is that the child needs to be removed from the home. I was thinking that the trainer was thinking overnight or until dad can calm down but the trainer told the Protective Service workers that since the Dad is religious and showed an act of aggression toward his child's gender choice that the child may never feel safe or be safe in his own home and we would have to think about foster homes and getting Dad therapy to deal with his issues and that the child's gender would need to be cultivated by getting him into transgender groups so he can feel normal in these groups and learn how to handle being transgender out in the community.

I have a 7 year old son. Three years from now he will be 10. If I found out he was serious about wanting to be a girl and was dressing as a girl behind my back I could see myself throwing something and saying some bad words.

So to the bolded part, I see where some child welfare agencies are already prepping for things like this. In this discussion there were many social workers that seemed very anti Christian and seemed overwhelmingly pro gay and pro trans. I got the vibe that they were all wanting to get the boy out of that house and wanting to make trans 100% of his life. Again this was just a scenario but I think it showed that Social Work and similar fields are flooded with this "free" thinking. I thought it was scary because these are the people that will be making decisions on child placements, therapies, and other needs children might have. It was a very awkward day of training.

I also noticed, while working there, that finding a Conservative/Republican Social Worker or social services worker might be as hard to find in some offices as it would be to find a dinosaur in your backyard.
 
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Buster Bluth

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The issue (my issue at least) is not with ACTUAL transgender people. My issue is with children as young as three being indulged and encouraged in the delusion that they're transgender when, in fact, they're just kids going through a phase. A female who exhibited traditionally male behaviors and interests used to be called a tomboy. Now she's given testosterone injections and breast reduction surgeries and told she's ACTUALLY a boy.

In other words, my problem is not with trans people. It's with society for using the trans issue to mess up these confused kids.

I think we probably fear the same overreaction then.
 

Irish#1

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We are at a point today where we are being forced into a physical reaction (passing very selective laws, spending money to change restrooms, etc.) by every very small minority out there simply to show we care as a community.

I don't care if a person is some form of LGBT and wants to live that way. More power to them. We can have compassion without a law telling us we have to have compassion.

BTW..........Was at a Kroger today and noticed the restrooms are now labeled uni-sex. Both restrooms had the urinal removed. Is a urinal offensive to the LGBT community?
 

wizards8507

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2016 Libertarian Party Platform


Should we legislate behavior by laws, for example, on bathroom access either for gender identity or for birth gender? Wouldn't a Libertarian say that neither is correct?

From Libertarian Platform Preamble:

Or, as dublinirish put it,
I haven't said a word about what consenting adults can or can't do, nor would I advocate any legislation on the matter. My issue, as I've said, is the affect this is having on children. To those who say this is no big deal, answer these fairly straightforward questions.

1. What would you do if your three year old son told you he was a girl?

2. Where should a fifteen year old trans male with breasts and a vagina change for gym class in a public high school?

3. What is the justification of gender-based competition from the WNBA, IOC, and NCAA if gender is determined by psychology and not biology?

4. Should the University of Notre Dame be forced to house male-to-female trans students in women's dorms?
 

Legacy

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Donald Trump’s impact on women in politics (The Daily Universe)

While president-elect Donald Trump was accused of disparaging women throughout his presidential campaign, political leaders and researchers in Utah were trying to figure out a way to get more women to run for office.

Only 19.4 percent of the current members of the U.S. Congress are women, according to the Center for American Women and Politics. Among Democratic state legislators, 33 percent are women. Among Republican state legislators, only about 15 percent are women.

“We think these messages by party leaders are really important,” Preece said. “They can spend effort in recruiting and letting women know that their voices really are valued, and they can also send signals out to voters that they care about a norm of gender equality as well.”

This research fell in line with an initiative made by the Republican Party in response to the Growth and Opportunity Report that was released after the 2012 presidential election.

“The RNC must improve its efforts to include female voters and promote women to leadership ranks within the committee,” the report said. “Additionally, when developing our party’s message, women need to be part of this process to represent some of the unique concerns that female voters may have.”

During the course of Trump’s presidential campaign, he was often criticized for his inappropriate language toward and about women. Karpowitz and Preece said they are concerned about the impact this will have on women’s propensities to run for office.

“Leaders are leaders and what they say matters,” Preece said. “How they talk about issues like sexual assault in the workplace or how they talk about their political opponents who are women matters. . . When someone has been explicitly derogatory toward women, it makes you wonder what type of leadership that person is going to show regarding these things.”
 

INLaw

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What happens when someone takes the class clown seriously.
 

BleedingGold

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I’ve found this conversation surprisingly refreshing. It’s nice to see people not be afraid to express their opinions without it becoming an attempt to resort to demonizing by those that disagree.

Disagreeing with policy or approaches should be accepted without a direct claim of some form of ism.
 

Lberry

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I’ve found this conversation surprisingly refreshing. It’s nice to see people not be afraid to express their opinions without it becoming an attempt to resort to demonizing by those that disagree.

Disagreeing with policy or approaches should be accepted without a direct claim of some form of ism.
I think Pete sucks but I 100% agree with how he responded. That's how it should be
 
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