Game of Thrones

[woolybug25]

Ya'll just glossing over Melisandre blowing Varys' mind with that whole "you know we both need to die in Westeros in the end" thing?

That's an end-game setup with lights, sirens, and neon signs.

Please Lion... it's far too important to think about how unlikely that uniforms would be clean and we still don't know who made the damn chess pieces.

 

[IrishLax]

FTFY. Maybe wasting the audience's time with go nowhere plots for the last 3 seasons wasn't a great idea?

Btw its possible to believe both of those sentences at once.

Yeah, here's the thing that makes literally no sense about what we've seen this season:
-The Iron Fleet stuff is basically nonsense at this point. When you look at a map, has to sail past Dragonstone to get to King's Landing. But it's possible they'd sail about 100 miles away from the island and not come into contact with anyone... you can only see a few miles out over open water, depending on your elevation. The presumed order of events is Dany lands on Dragonstone -> Euron arrives at KL's sailing -> Dan'y fleet leaves for Sunspear -> Euron's fleet chases them down somehow. The most plausible way this goes down is that he has his fleet sitting at Massey's Hook waiting to see which way everyone goes (with some carefully placed, very fast scout ships and Westeros' infallible ravens) and then moves to intercept Yara.
-What makes no sense is that Greyworm and Yara would presumably be sailing together all the way down to Dorne as that's the only way to get to Casterly Rock. Even if they left at different times, the order of events gets quite murky because...
-Getting from there back to King's Landing and then off to Casterly Rock in time to sink Greyworm's fleet is actually impossible. You're talking about thousands of miles and months of travel... so unless Greyworm left weeks before Yara (which would make no sense given what the show presented... or it's possible that Yara was on her way back from Dorne when they got intercepted?) they both would've run into Euron's fleet. If he left week's after Yara then they would've already known that Yara's fleet got sunk and never would've sent them. In short:
1. If they left same time (what is implied) they would've both hit Euron's fleet.
2. If Greyworm left first, he'd have thousands of miles of head start on Euron and be uncatchable.
3. If Greyworm left later, it wouldn't make sense as Yara's fleet would've already been burned and the timeline would be off by months.
4. If Euron got Yara's fleet on the way back, they'd have the same problem as #2.
... most annoyingly, they could've avoided all of this by saying "Euron left part of his fleet behind in the Iron Islands to wait for the Unsullied to show up"... but instead they show Euron's boat specifically.

-The Tyrell's were regarded as (currently) the most powerful house in Westeros with the most food, men, and gold. And the castle falls in one day to an army no siege required. Makes literally no sense.

Lazy writing and storytelling.

 

[dublinirish]

Yeah, here's the thing that makes literally no sense about what we've seen this season:
-The Iron Fleet stuff is basically nonsense at this point. When you look at a map, has to sail past Dragonstone to get to King's Landing. But it's possible they'd sail about 100 miles away from the island and not come into contact with anyone... you can only see a few miles out over open water, depending on your elevation. The presumed order of events is Dany lands on Dragonstone -> Euron arrives at KL's sailing -> Dan'y fleet leaves for Sunspear -> Euron's fleet chases them down somehow. The most plausible way this goes down is that he has his fleet sitting at Massey's Hook waiting to see which way everyone goes (with some carefully placed, very fast scout ships and Westeros' infallible ravens) and then moves to intercept Yara.
-What makes no sense is that Greyworm and Yara would presumably be sailing together all the way down to Dorne as that's the only way to get to Casterly Rock. Even if they left at different times, the order of events gets quite murky because...
-Getting from there back to King's Landing and then off to Casterly Rock in time to sink Greyworm's fleet is actually impossible. You're talking about thousands of miles and months of travel... so unless Greyworm left weeks before Yara (which would make no sense given what the show presented... or it's possible that Yara was on her way back from Dorne when they got intercepted?) they both would've run into Euron's fleet. If he left week's after Yara then they would've already known that Yara's fleet got sunk and never would've sent them. In short:
1. If they left same time (what is implied) they would've both hit Euron's fleet.
2. If Greyworm left first, he'd have thousands of miles of head start on Euron and be uncatchable.
3. If Greyworm left later, it wouldn't make sense as Yara's fleet would've already been burned and the timeline would be off by months.
4. If Euron got Yara's fleet on the way back, they'd have the same problem as #2.
... most annoyingly, they could've avoided all of this by saying "Euron left part of his fleet behind in the Iron Islands to wait for the Unsullied to show up"... but instead they show Euron's boat specifically.

-The Tyrell's were regarded as (currently) the most powerful house in Westeros with the most food, men, and gold. And the castle falls in one day to an army no siege required. Makes literally no sense.

Lazy writing and storytelling.

with supposedly an army capable of sacking King's Landing but they can't defend their own castle??

 

[woolybug25]

Agreed. I'm over it when the show contradicts the books, I really am. But the show has begun to contradict itself on a regular basis. Compare a military campaign from Season 2 with last night's sack of Highgarden. The entire Lannister army was dressed like Jamie the Kingslayer. There were no tents or siege equipment or supplies of any kind. No evidence of the grueling march from King's Landing (760 miles) or Casterly Rock (closer, but still far). Just a golden army like you'd see in an Age of Empires video game.

You've been saying that "you're done" for going on 4 seasons now. Will you gtfo out already?

I truly feel that if someone can only watch the show with intentions of picking it apart negatively each week, then you aren't very sophisticated. It's super easy to use negativity and pick apart any minute detail that isn't EXACTLY to scale. There has never once been a tv show in the history of time that doesn't have small items that aren't perfect. But that is what you spend your entire time evaluating with this show. It is a character flaw in my opinion. One you should work on....

 

[IrishLion]

with supposedly an army capable of sacking King's Landing but they can't defend their own castle??

Wasn't most of the Tyrell army on the ships with the Dornish that got decimated by Euron?

 

[woolybug25]

Wasn't most of the Tyrell army on the ships with the Dornish that got decimated by Euron?

C'mon Lion... these guys don't need this kind of negativity in their life... It's unrealistic damn it!

 

[IrishLion]

C'mon Lion... these guys don't need this kind of negativity in their life... It's unrealistic damn it!

Next, we will analyze realistic distances for dragon flight on a per-day basis.

After that, we will analyze the rate of travel for the Ice Zombies, and how much time the Northern lords realistically have to prepare the dragonglass weapons.

 

[IrishLax]

Wasn't most of the Tyrell army on the ships with the Dornish that got decimated by Euron?

I don't think so, or at least they shouldn't have been. The ships were intercepted on their way to Dorne... Ellaria says something to the effect of "when we get to Dorne, I'll give you some red wine" or whatever if I'm remembering right.

Wouldn't make any sense for the Tyrell army to be on the ships when the entire point is sending them to Dorne empty to pick up an army.

The best counter would be the idea that the Tyrell's actually have only a limited number (let's call it 10k out of the 40k they were reported to have) loyal to their house and the other 30k are loyal to the other Reach lords... so you had 40k (Tarly and the other Reach lords + Lannisters) versus 10k (Tyrell only)... it makes sense they'd lose that battle, especially if there wasn't a large contingent garrisoned at Highgarden because they were off somewhere else like marching to King's Landing.

 

[woolybug25]

Next, we will analyze realistic distances for dragon flight on a per-day basis.

After that, we will analyze the rate of travel for the Ice Zombies, and how much time the Northern lords realistically have to prepare the dragonglass weapons.

YES. If we are to believe that dragonglass is an alkaline rock, then we also must all agree that it is characterized by a high content of Na2O and K2O relative to the other oxides. They occur throughout the range from ultrabasic to acid, but have their strongest expression in the acid-intermediate part of the range. So how in bloody hell did it end up on Dragonstone? Pfft.... there is no way in hell that a fan-shaped deposit formed where a fast flowing stream flattens, slows, and spreads typically at the exit of a canyon onto a flatter plain.... Dragonstone doesn't have that... it just isn't REALISTIC!!!!

 

[greyhammer90]

You've been saying that "you're done" for going on 4 seasons now. Will you gtfo out already?

I truly feel that if someone can only watch the show with intentions of picking it apart negatively each week, then you aren't very sophisticated. It's super easy to use negativity and pick apart any minute detail that isn't EXACTLY to scale. There has never once been a tv show in the history of time that doesn't have small items that aren't perfect. But that is what you spend your entire time evaluating with this show. It is a character flaw in my opinion. One you should work on....

Or you could stop bringing the same tired "nothing is perfect" or "you're thinking about this too much" or "it's just a fantasy show lolz" arguments you've been toting since season 4 and just allow him to have a differing opinion. It's not like Ndgrad on the ND football program where he is obviously trolling or is an incredibly small minority. Wiz has the same opinion of the show that many others on the board do, that it's entertaining but stupid, and left any semblance of realistic political intrigue behind long ago. It is possible to both enjoy the show for what it is (fun but dumb), while criticizing the myriad of things that make no sense (not just compared to books, but within the universe that has been set up by the show).

Wiz, myself, Lax, Whiskeyjack, etc. have the same ability to discuss the show as you do in the discussion thread dedicated to that show. So stop telling people to gtfo or to stop complaining just because they don't think the show is a 10/10 masterpiece.

 

[woolybug25]

I don't think so, or at least they shouldn't have been. The ships were intercepted on their way to Dorne... Ellaria says something to the effect of "when we get to Dorne, I'll give you some red wine" or whatever if I'm remembering right.

Wouldn't make any sense for the Tyrell army to be on the ships when the entire point is sending them to Dorne empty to pick up an army.

The best counter would be the idea that the Tyrell's actually have only a limited number (let's call it 10k out of the 40k they were reported to have) loyal to their house and the other 30k are loyal to the other Reach lords... so you had 40k (Tarly and the other Reach lords + Lannisters) versus 10k (Tyrell only)... it makes sense they'd lose that battle, especially if there wasn't a large contingent garrisoned at Highgarden because they were off somewhere else like marching to King's Landing.

I was just typing a response stating that we are forgetting that the Tarly army was also with the Lannisters before this edit. You hit the nail on the head on the last paragraph.

 

[Rogue219]

Jon took Stannis' ships to Hardhomme. That's the last I can remember anything about Stannis' fleet.

Where are those ships?

Not that it matters. Euron will just burn those too.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Not that it matters. Euron will just burn those too.

Ser Twenty of House Goodmen entered Euron's employ after Ramsey's death.

 

[greyhammer90]

Ser Twenty of House Goodmen entered Euron's employ after Ramsey's death.

For the last time Whiskey stop thinking or gtfo.

 

[woolybug25]

Or you could stop bringing the same tired "nothing is perfect" or "you're thinking about this too much" or "it's just a fantasy show lolz" arguments you've been toting since season 4 and just allow him to have a differing opinion. It's not like Ndgrad on the ND football program where he is obviously trolling or is an incredibly small minority. Wiz has the same opinion of the show that many others on the board do, that it's entertaining but stupid, and left any semblance of realistic political intrigue behind long ago. It is possible to both enjoy the show for what it is (fun but dumb), while criticizing the myriad of things that make no sense (not just compared to books, but within the universe that has been set up by the show).

Wiz, myself, Lax, Whiskeyjack, etc. have the same ability to discuss the show as you do in the discussion thread dedicated to that show. So stop telling people to gtfo or to stop complaining just because they don't think the show is a 10/10 masterpiece.

I have brought more, pretty much after every episode. Not sure how you can act like I haven't. I've talked about where I think the story is going, what I hope to see and discussed theories for the endgame. I've posted links to articles, etc. What have you done other than come on here each week to tell us how stupid the show is? The reason we address it with those that only post to criticize is that it makes it tough to talk about the actual show when every god damned week we have to go over each of your lists of things you don't enjoy like how they found time to make chess pieces, travel itineraries or whether soldiers uniforms should be dirty. It's an exhausting exercise that lowers the level of conversation on a weekly basis and all that we have asked is that you guys add some freaking regular discussion points, not just a bunch of armchair directing.

It's funny that you mention ndgrad, because some of you guys are exactly like him in this thread. Using every opportunity to point out flaws to confirm some bias that the show sucks. Well, it obviously doesn't suck as a show. It's averaging 25 million viewers a week. It's won 212 major awards for things you guys continuously dog them for like acting, writing and directing. Are there flaws? Of course... there hasn't been a show made in the history of man without flaws. Thanks for letting us know that hot tip every week.

 

[woolybug25]

So in efforts to make greyhammer feel all warm and fuzzy, i'll pose a question to the board.

When Bran was talking to Sansa, she mentioned that he "needed to talk to Jon". Do you think that is about the white walkers or his parentage? I would think it has to be about his parentage because they made effort to point out that he "sees everything". So if he saw Sansa's wedding, he must have seen Jon fight the White Walkers.

With Jon returning to Winterfell next episode, I assume. Does that Jon finds out next week? Will Sansa freak and try to take over?

 

[ND NYC]

ramblings, thoughts, predictions...

• is it possible/probabale Varys leaked Dany's battle plans to Cersei/Jaime thinking she was "going Mad" and they felt her a threat "to the realm" ?
• Tyrion truly sucks at military planning, anyone think he gave her a shiitty plan on purpose or in cahoots with Varys?
• Sam's book "assignment" will reveal great info for the battles ahead
• The characters are travelling at light speed all over the place (things happening at furious pace now)...agree with above posts its getting pretty unrealistic now.
• Dany will begin to go with her gut and not follow her "advisers" as per Olenna she will"be a dragon"
• Jorah will make his way back to Dany within 2 episodes
• Bran wont tell anyone except Jon about R+L=J.
• GRRM book cover for TWOW has "the Horn" on it...does that summon ALL dragons or just the ones that are up and flying about. maybe that ICE dragon gets a call?
• are we for sure arya is heading NORTH right now...have a feeling she may going in he other direction to KL. the wolf scene last week signaled to me that she was unrecognizable as a Stark to her direrwolf, and that she can only ever be the trained assassin and No One from here on out.
  • the whole white walkers=global warming angle intrigues me, but don't think it ends with them "winning" the game
    • knowing what we know now, who has the most legit claim to the throne?

 

[woolybug25]

ramblings, thoughts, predictions...

• is it possible/probabale Varys leaked Dany's battle plans to Cersei/Jaime thinking she was "going Mad" and they felt her a threat "to the realm" ?

• 
  
  I was thinking of this after the episode. It seems like they are getting info from someone. Varys is as good of a guess as anyone.
  
  

  [*]Tyrion truly sucks at military planning, anyone think he gave her a shiitty plan on purpose or in cahoots with Varys?

  
  Maybe, but Jaime didn't find out that Tyrion didn't kill Joffrey until the end of this episode. So would he really be colluding with him?
  
  

  [*]Sam's book "assignment" will reveal great info for the battles ahead

  
  Yeah, this is tasty. I literally have no clue what he will find in the scrolls, but I know damn well it's gonna be some good stuff.
  
  

  [*]The characters are travelling at light speed all over the place (things happening at furious pace now)...agree with above posts its getting pretty unrealistic now.

  
  I do too, but I'm not letting it ruin the story for me. On some level, they have a limited amount of time to connect all the players for the end game. So if I have to ignore the time commitment needed to get from Winterfell to Dragonstone, then so be it. I just don't care about that stuff enough for it to ruin a great story for me.
  
  

  [*]Dany will begin to go with her gut and not follow her "advisers" as per Olenna she will"be a dragon"

  
  She is gonna kinda have to, as people are dying like flies around her. I have a feeling Jon is still going to do something that connects them on a deeper level. My hope is that she gets to understand the real war vs turning into the mad queen.
  
  

  [*]Jorah will make his way back to Dany within 2 episodes

  
  Agreed. Maybe even next episode.
  
  

  [*]Bran wont tell anyone except Jon about R+L=J.

  
  This was the most interesting part of the episode, imo. He made it pretty clear that he "sees all", so when he told Sansa that he had to "speak to Jon", I took that as he is going to tell him R+J=J. Which is interesting for sure.
  
  

  [*]GRRM book cover for TWOW has "the Horn" on it...does that summon ALL dragons or just the ones that are up and flying about. maybe that ICE dragon gets a call?

  
  No idea. The horn hasn't shown up as of yet. Should be interesting on how the show handles it.
  
  

  [*]are we for sure arya is heading NORTH right now...have a feeling she may going in he other direction to KL. the wolf scene last week signaled to me that she was unrecognizable as a Stark to her direrwolf, and that she can only ever be the trained assassin and No One from here on out.
  

  • 
    
    I don't know one way or the other. I didn't take the wolf scene to mean that she was unrecognizable as a Stark, as her wolf clearly recognized her and led the pack away. What she also did was stay with her pack, her new identity. I believe Sansa will be doing the same. Off to King's Landing she goes.
    
    

    [*]the whole white walkers=global warming angle intrigues me, but don't think it ends with them "winning" the game
    

    • 
      
      Interestingly enough, the books do prophesize that the world ends with the WW's.
      
      

      [*]knowing what we know now, who has the most legit claim to the throne?

Jon Snow. No question. Not only is he the only son of Rhaegar, but he is also possibly Azor Ahai. Which means he has to lead Westoros against the WW's. That has to be the ruler of the realm's role.

 

[ND NYC]

^wouldnt Rhaegar and Lyanna have to have been married (as well as his parents) for him to have the most legit claim?

also another question what was the jist of that witch prophecy for cersei's life?

do we anticipate any "new" (and important) characters as we go thru the next 2 seasons? are there any from books that may pop up? (not in a flashback Tower of Joy TER kind of way)

 

[dublinirish]

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Someone Hacked Into HBO and Is Now Releasing Game of Thrones Info

 

[woolybug25]

^wouldnt Rhaegar and Lyanna have to have been married (as well as his parents) for him to have the most legit claim?

Not necessarily. I think that if Rhaegar was truly fulfilling the prophecy of Ice and Fire, then he would have legitimized his son. I believe that they ran off and married. But that aside, Dany is a chick and Jon is a dude. The last four rulers of the realm had less than that.

also another question what was the jist of that witch prophecy for cersei's life?

1) "You'll never wed the prince, you'll wed the king." - Check. Married Robert, not Rhaegar
2) "You'll be queen, for a time. Then comes another, younger, more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear." - Check, Dany.
3) "The king will have 20 children and you will have three. Gold will be their crowns . . . gold their shrouds." Check - Robert slays poon and she had three kiddos, all died yo.
4) "And when your tears have drowned you, the Valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." - All that's left. Btw, "Valonqar" is "little brother" in Valyrian.

do we anticipate any "new" (and important) characters as we go thru the next 2 seasons? are there any from books that may pop up? (not in a flashback Tower of Joy TER kind of way)

RHAEGAR

 

[Whiskeyjack]

4) "And when your tears have drowned you, the Valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." - All that's left. Btw, "Valonqar" is "little brother" in Valyrian.

 

[IrishLion]

VARYS: So where will you go?

MELISANDRE: Volantis.

V: Good. If you don't mind my saying, I don't think you should return to Westeros. I'm not sure you'd be safe here.

M: Oh, I will return, dear Spider. One last time. I have to die in this strange country, just like you.

V: *Mind Blown* *Extremely Unsettled* *Nonexistent Balls Recede into Body*



WHAT DOES IT MEAN

 

[zelezo vlk]

VARYS: So where will you go?

MELISANDRE: Volantis.

V: Good. If you don't mind my saying, I don't think you should return to Westeros. I'm not sure you'd be safe here.

M: Oh, I will return, dear Spider. One last time. I have to die in this strange country, just like you.

V: *Mind Blown* *Extremely Unsettled* *Nonexistent Balls Recede into Body*



WHAT DOES IT MEAN

It means that Melisandre and Varys will be burned alive by dragonfire as a sacrifice to the Lord of Light. Duh

 

[woolybug25]

VARYS: So where will you go?

MELISANDRE: Volantis.

V: Good. If you don't mind my saying, I don't think you should return to Westeros. I'm not sure you'd be safe here.

M: Oh, I will return, dear Spider. One last time. I have to die in this strange country, just like you.

V: *Mind Blown* *Extremely Unsettled* *Nonexistent Balls Recede into Body*



WHAT DOES IT MEAN

 

[IrishLion]

I always thought that Varys heard the voice of "The Other" in the magic the night he was castrated.

But now I'm thinking it was R'hollor, and that's why Melisandre seems to know his fate.

They're gonna die fighting for/protecting Dany against the Ice Zombies, somehow.

 

[greyhammer90]

WHAT DOES IT MEAN

I'm surprised you care so much about this because my honest take? Probably nothing. It simply implies that at some point in the future she will return to the continent and die there, and that she knows this. That doesn't mean it happens in this story or even this century. They've shown/hinted repeatedly that she is extremely old. I didn't take it as a "this is going to affect the story" moment. I took it more as:

Varys: You probably shouldn't return here because I hate fire sacrificers because of my castration and will kill you in the future if I get the opportunity. So leave the country and don't come back if you know whats good for you.

Melisandre: Oh I know how I die (because I'm mystical), and I know how you'll die too. So don't try to intimidate me because I'm infinitely more powerful than you. Anything you try I'm five steps ahead. So don't come at me bro. *mic drop*

Not a WHAT DOES IT MEAN moment. Just a little tit for tat argument between two passive aggressive characters IMO.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm surprised you care so much about this because my honest take? Probably nothing. It simply implies that at some point in the future she will return to the continent and die there, and that she knows this. That doesn't mean it happens in this story or even this century. They've shown/hinted repeatedly that she is extremely old. I didn't take it as a "this is going to affect the story" moment. I took it more as:

Varys: You probably shouldn't return here because I hate fire sacrificers because of my castration and will kill you in the future if I get the opportunity. So leave the country and don't come back if you know whats good for you.

Melisandre: Oh I know how I die (because I'm mystical), and I know how you'll die too. So don't try to intimidate me because I'm infinitely more powerful than you. Anything you try I'm five steps ahead. So don't come at me bro. *mic drop*

Not a WHAT DOES IT MEAN moment. Just a little tit for tat argument between two passive aggressive characters.

I'm not sure, but I could see it somewhere between you and Lion's thoughts. I can't think of any scene like that in the show that wasn't a prelude to an important scene down the road. So there's something to it, whether that is something vital to the story, I don't know.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Jamie killing Cersei--his twin and former lover-- by strangulation (wrapping his hands, one of which is gold, around her pale neck) in to order to save the people of King's Landing yet again from a psychotic monarch determined to burn them all is the climax of his redemption arc.

Valonquar doesn't refer to Tyrion, Dany, Arya, or anyone else who just happens to have an older sibling. And if you disagree with this interpretation, I will fight you IRL.

 

[dublinirish]

Game of Thrones: Explaining Melisandre’s Mysterious Goodbye | Vanity Fair