Game of Thrones

Whiskeyjack · May 9, 2016

ACamp1900 said:
I guess the basic overall facial look fits but he wasn't short huh? interesting. Was his fighting style unique or anything? I always got the impression they ( crannogmen) have this very unique/different/funky way....

Howland's on the left. From a few angles later in the scene, it looks like he might even be taller than Ned.

Irish YJ · May 9, 2016

koonja said:
To me she's the hottest woman in the world

Like her, but I'd take Dormer.

ACamp1900 · May 9, 2016

koonja said:
To me she's the hottest woman in the world

well, on second thought I guess that fits since you're into dudes....

NOLAIrish · May 9, 2016

Whiskeyjack said:
Apologies in advance for the pendantry, but I hated their portrayal of Dayne. Sure, it's a low-budget way to tell the Shownlies that "this is an exceptionally skilled knight". But for a series that prides itself on its gritty medieval realism, it's just so lazy and unnecessary; "dual-wielding" is the sole province of video-games and bad fantasy flicks, particularly with all the twirling bullshit. How much more difficult would it have been to just give him a great-sword, make it glow via CGI, and have him body people that way instead?

I agree with you. It also forces really unrealistic choreography into the fight. They did about as good of a job on this one as possible, but the wires are still showing. Focus on Ned from about 2:30 on in the clip you linked (he's at Dayne's back). He's swinging at the sword for that entire clip. It really hamstrings their ability to shoot a "real" looking fight.

ACamp1900 said:
I guess the basic overall facial look fits but he wasn't short huh? interesting. Was his fighting style unique or anything? I always got the impression they ( crannogmen) have this very unique/different/funky way....

I was surprised, too. I really thought the crannogmen would look like a leather-armored retiarius -- the iconic gladiator with the trident and net.

gkIrish · May 9, 2016

Whiskeyjack said:
Clarke had several scenes of full-frontal nudity in Season 1, which are easily found online. But she was a nobody then. Now she's a big deal, so I wouldn't expect any more scenes like that.

I totally get that she won't be doing it. My point was that the whole "let's hide her boobs during a scene whose sole point is to show her being stripped down" just doesn't mesh with the overall style of the show. I would have preferred that they didn't show her being stripped down at all.

ACamp1900 · May 9, 2016

NOLAIrish said:
I agree with you. It also forces really unrealistic choreography into the fight. They did about as good of a job on this one as possible, but the wires are still showing. Focus on Ned from about 2:30 on in the clip you linked (he's at Dayne's back). He's swinging at the sword for that entire clip. It really hamstrings their ability to shoot a "real" looking fight.

I was surprised, too. I really thought the crannogmen would look like a leather-armored retiarius -- the iconic gladiator with the trident and net.

For sure, I always pictured the net as a main weapon as well... can't remember that being mentioned in the books but since we both went there maybe it was????

As far as the clip, yeah, wasn't "The Morning"s big thing a single sword?? I remember something about that too (figure me if I'm all over the place) it's been a dozen or more other books and topics since I last picked up DwD...

ND NYC · May 9, 2016

I guess now we are finding out that the "tales" and "the stories" we've read bout or have seen depicted in the show can differ from what ACTUALLY happened in the Westeros past/collective memory...which opens up a lot of things for the show to do IMO.

GATTACA! · May 9, 2016

koonja said:
To me she's the hottest woman in the world

I've been beating this drum for quite a while and Acamp keeps telling me she looks like a boy.....seems like he's got a lot of experience looking at guys

But for real though come on

GATTACA! · May 9, 2016

gkIrish said:
I totally get that she won't be doing it. My point was that the whole "let's hide her boobs during a scene whose sole point is to show her being stripped down" just doesn't mesh with the overall style of the show. I would have preferred that they didn't show her being stripped down at all.

Yeah I agree it was odd. That wasn't actually Lena Heady's body during the walk of shame last season. I'm surprised they didn't do the same thing with Daenerys last night. Just bc the actress doesn't want to get naked doesn't mean they have to not show anything.

NOLAIrish · May 9, 2016

ACamp1900 said:
For sure, I always pictured the net as a main weapon as well... can't remember that being mentioned in the books but since we both went there maybe it was????

As far as the clip, yeah, wasn't "The Morning"s big thing a single sword?? I remember something about that too (figure me if I'm all over the place) it's been a dozen or more other books and topics since I last picked up DwD...

They're definitely described as using frog spears and nets as weapons at some point in the books. It fits where they come from, too.

I remember the sword the same way, as well. Ned makes a big deal about returning it to the family after Dayne falls.

phillyirish · May 9, 2016

I don't have a problem with how Arthur Dayne died. Ned has mentioned that if it wasn't for Howland he would of died. That's exactly how I figured the scene playing out, Howland coming out of no where to save Ned. Maybe not with a stab to the neck, but and arrow, net, or somehow tripping him. What did you guys expect? Ned slaying Dayne in single combat? I guess I don't like how they tried to spin it as a dishonorable act on Ned's part. I mean it was 7v3 anyway and the war was over, what honor was there in the first place.

Whiskeyjack · May 9, 2016

ACamp1900 said:
For sure, I always pictured the net as a main weapon as well... can't remember that being mentioned in the books but since we both went there maybe it was????

From the wiki:

The crannogmen are so called for their habit of living in small villages formed of reeds and thatch that sit atop floating islands in the mire (crannogs). They are a poor people and seldom leave their lands, subsisting on fishing and frogging.

They are talented hunters and warriors and despite their short stature and somewhat primitive lifestyle, the crannogmen have proven a notoriously difficult people to conquer. They use nets, bronze knives, frog spears, and round leather shields. They fight with poison, guerrilla tactics, and a mastery of their difficult terrain. According to those who have fought them, their houses, even their castles, move. They are disparaged as frog-eaters, swamp-dwellers, mud-men, and bog devils by most other people of the Seven Kingdoms, and are looked down upon for their tactics, which are viewed as cowardly.

Some claim the crannogmen's smaller size is because of intermarriage with the children of the forest, while others attribute their size to poor nutrition.

As far as the clip, yeah, wasn't "The Morning"s big thing a single sword?? I remember something about that too (figure me if I'm all over the place) it's been a dozen or more other books and topics since I last picked up DwD...

Yep:

Dawn is the ancestral greatsword of House Dayne, whose wielder is always given the title Sword of the Morning. Dawn is largely the reason for House Dayne's fame. Its origins are lost to legend, but it seems likely that the Daynes have carried it for thousands of years. It is said to be made from metal forged from the heart of a fallen star. The blade is as pale as milkglass, looking like no Valyrian blade, yet sharing all of the properties, being incredibly strong and sharp. Unlike other houses who have ancestral swords, House Dayne does not pass its sword from lord to lord. Only a knight of House Dayne who is worthy can wield it. The name of the Daynes' castle, Starfall, and their arms, featuring a white sword and falling star, both reference Dawn.

The last known user of the sword was Ser Arthur Dayne, who died at the Tower of Joy. After the fight, Eddard Stark rode to Starfall to deliver Dawn to Arthur's sister, Ashara Dayne.

ACamp1900 · May 9, 2016

Forgive one more question... The wiki, is that just fan theory stuff or is everything there directly from the books or Martin himself? In other words who built this "canon"...?

Whiskeyjack · May 9, 2016

ACamp1900 said:
Forgive one more question... The wiki, is that just fan theory stuff or is everything there directly from the books or Martin himself? In other words who built this "canon"...?

Good question. It's all from the books. If you click through on one of those links, you'll see every article is full of citations to the exact spot in the books that discusses the subject. I just removed the footnotes to make them easier to read here.

ACamp1900 · May 9, 2016

It'd be interested to see what percentage is actually verbatim pulled and what is just sort of extrapolated...

Emcee77 · May 10, 2016

Game of Thrones

Whiskeyjack said:
Apologies in advance for the pendantry, but I hated their portrayal of Dayne. Sure, it's a low-budget way to tell the Shownlies that "this is an exceptionally skilled knight". But for a series that prides itself on its gritty medieval realism, it's just so lazy and unnecessary; "dual-wielding" is the sole province of video-games and bad fantasy flicks, particularly with all the twirling bullshit. How much more difficult would it have been to just give him a great-sword, make it glow via CGI, and have him body people that way instead.

Totally agree. I wanted and expected Dayne to fight like a knight, not a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle.

phillyirish said:
I guess I don't like how they tried to spin it as a dishonorable act on Ned's part. I mean it was 7v3 anyway and the war was over, what honor was there in the first place.

Yeah I didn't think that worked on that level at all. I did like the idea of it being less than a glorious victory for Ned; that's how I always pictured it, with Ned winning only because of the advantage in numbers. But then for some reason they made it seem like Bran thought it was dishonorable to win because of an advantage in numbers. Where is that written in the war rulebook? Does Bran think it's like hockey, and Howland Reed should have got two minutes in the box for too many men on the ice? The moment of disillusionment D&D were trying to create just fell flat for me. And they didn't have to go that dishonorable route; Bran seeing Ned barely win would have been enough disillusionment, without trying to cast the thing in a false dishonorable light. Just my $.02 I guess.

woolybug25 · May 10, 2016

What was "dishonorable" about Dayne's death? In the same sense that nobody seems to care that he was outnumbered, it seems strange to paint it in a dishonorable light simply because he was stabbed in the back. I mean, there are tons of scenes of heroes winning a fight in that same manner (saved by unsuspected help).

I didn't mind the scene, but I also haven't read the books. I thought they did a good job of showing how much more advanced Dayne was as a fighter. I understand what you guys are saying, but if they simply showed him outdualing Ned and the gang, I don't think it would have had the emphasis they were looking for. But that's just me.

jspags10pg · May 10, 2016

You guys are all so caught up in the Tower Of Joy scene that no one has even bothered to mention the best scene in the entire series that happened to air last night as well...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vpjkM5SIsnc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Henges24 · May 10, 2016

jspags10pg said:
You guys are all so caught up in the Tower Of Joy scene that no one has even bothered to mention the best scene in the entire series that happened to air last night as well...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vpjkM5SIsnc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

IrishLion · May 10, 2016

Another part about Dayne dual-wielding is that it would have been even worse and less realistic if they tried to have him wield just one sword against all of those guys. He's a legendary swordsman, but the actor portraying him would not be able to make it look realistic enough when combating 3 or 4 guys with just one sword. There would have been even worse instances of guys waiting around in the back to "attack" in order to make it seem like Dayne wasn't being overpowered by numbers.

The only way to offset the actual limitations of the normal man portraying a legendary fighter was to create an advantage that made the fight look busy the entire time... giving him an extra blade allowed all fighters to stay busy, rather than pointing out the usual fight-scene flaw where the henchmen are just waiting around to attack for seemingly no reason other than "because TV."

dublinirish · May 10, 2016

Whiskeyjack said:
From the wiki:

Crannogs are very plentiful in the area around where I grew up. They are man made islands built on lakes with forts build on top from the European Neolithic Period. They are generally solid though, they don't float

ND NYC · May 10, 2016

jspags10pg said:
You guys are all so caught up in the Tower Of Joy scene that no one has even bothered to mention the best scene in the entire series that happened to air last night as well...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vpjkM5SIsnc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

was watching on TV with closed caption on (because i'm old and cant hear/understand half the shit they're saying ok?

)...anyway the CC actually picked up Pycelles flatulence, it said something like "Pycelle farting" in the caption I damn near lost it.

when is cersei finally going to get rid of him?

Whiskeyjack · May 10, 2016

IrishLion said:
Another part about Dayne dual-wielding is that it would have been even worse and less realistic if they tried to have him wield just one sword against all of those guys. He's a legendary swordsman, but the actor portraying him would not be able to make it look realistic enough when combating 3 or 4 guys with just one sword. There would have been even worse instances of guys waiting around in the back to "attack" in order to make it seem like Dayne wasn't being overpowered by numbers.

The only way to offset the actual limitations of the normal man portraying a legendary fighter was to create an advantage that made the fight look busy the entire time... giving him an extra blade allowed all fighters to stay busy, rather than pointing out the usual fight-scene flaw where the henchmen are just waiting around to attack for seemingly no reason other than "because TV."

Dayne is wearing plate, while the northmen aren't wearing anything heavier than leather. That fact alone would plausibly allow an average knight to end up one on one with Ned, let alone the greatest living swordsman in Westeros. Just show his opponents' blows glancing off his armor, with Dayne landing effective counters.

Actual medieval combat involved a lot more grappling and brute force than the theatrical fencing we're used to seeing in film. Not only is it historically accurate, but it's way more interesting to watch.

My neckbeard is getting itchy, so I'll finish simply by opining that Benioff & Weis could have portrayed that fight scene much more realistically and faithfully to Martin's work without confusing the Shownlies or blowing their budget. Instead, we got the medieval version of this:

phork · May 10, 2016

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