Game of Thrones

[ND NYC]

https://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-details-missed-easter-eggs-2019-5

some good stuff here, best to just watch the video not read the actual article

 

[IrishLion]

Varys was sending out letters across the land about Jon being the rightful heir. That was his treason (he didn't disappear after that, which doesn't make sense, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯).

However, when Greyworm came for him, he was reading a response from someone, and then burned it.

THEORY TIME!

It was a response from Howland Reed, who was confirming that he will show up in King's Landing to back up the claim that Ned Stark took Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen's infant child, and rightful heir to the Iron Throne, from the Tower of Joy, and that said child is Jon Snow, actually named Aegon Targaryen.

Bran knows, and Sam corroborated via maester's scroll, but Dany could tell everyone at her victory coronation that it's a misinformation campaign... it's key that someone who KNOWS via first-person account would show up to back Jon's claim, should a situation arise where Jon decides to stake his claim, against his own will (aka, when the prospective Queen has decided to burn hundreds of thousands of innocent people for no reason, so you gotta step up and take the throne just so she can't have it, so you can then give up that same throne almost immediately).

Howland Reed is Expert Witness #1 being called to the stand in Dany's coronation/trial.

 

[ACamp1900]

Varys was sending out letters across the land about Jon being the rightful heir. That was his treason (he didn't disappear after that, which doesn't make sense, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯).

However, when Greyworm came for him, he was reading a response from someone, and then burned it.

THEORY TIME!

It was a response from Howland Reed, who was confirming that he will show up in King's Landing to back up the claim that Ned Stark took Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen's infant child, and rightful heir to the Iron Throne, from the Tower of Joy, and that said child is Jon Snow, actually named Aegon Targaryen.

Bran knows, and Sam corroborated via maester's scroll, but Dany could tell everyone at her victory coronation that it's a misinformation campaign... it's key that someone who KNOWS via first-person account would show up to back Jon's claim, should a situation arise where Jon decides to stake his claim, against his own will (aka, when the prospective Queen has decided to burn hundreds of thousands of innocent people for no reason, so you gotta step up and take the throne just so she can't have it, and then you give the throne up right away).

Howland Reed is Expert Witness #1 being called to the stand in Dany's coronation/trial.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

That would be pretty epic. Which means it probably won't happen.

In other news, I saw this twitter thread earlier. It's worth a read. Doesn't fix all the writing problems, but it helps in understanding Dany a little better:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The rushed nature of the last GoT season is messing up a lot of the big character moments, but Dany's big barbecue was more than just "Targaryens are psychos." She was furious with the people for not overthrowing Cersei when their rightful queen arrived at the gates.</p>— John Hayward (@Doc_0) <a href="https://twitter.com/Doc_0/status/1127933119359868928?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 13, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[IrishLion]

Seriously, though, they've got 80 minutes of content to fill for the post-battle fallout.

It's not gonna take a full 80 minutes to show everyone being conflicted, while Dany justifies what she did. "I had to break the wheel. Those people should have sought shelter with me."

I have no idea how they fill the remaining time based on how they've handled things to this point, while simultaneously having no idea how they can wrap up the ramifications of that battle in just 80 minutes.

20 minutes of people feeling guilty and depressed.
20 minutes of Dany justifying things and Jon rebuking her.
10 minutes of House Stark trying to convince Jon to take the throne from her.
10 minutes of consternation from Jon, who knows what needs to be done, but doesn't want it.
15 minutes of resolution, likely Jon executing Dany.
5 minutes of people just walking away, while Jon refuses to sit on the throne, probably walking away and leaving it to whoever decides to claim it.

 

[beryirish]

Seriously, though, they've got 80 minutes of content to fill for the post-battle fallout.

It's not gonna take a full 80 minutes to show everyone being conflicted, while Dany justifies what she did. "I had to break the wheel. Those people should have sought shelter with me."

I have no idea how they fill the remaining time based on how they've handled things to this point, while simultaneously having no idea how they can wrap up the ramifications of that battle in just 80 minutes.

20 minutes of people feeling guilty and depressed.
20 minutes of Dany justifying things and Jon rebuking her.
10 minutes of House Stark trying to convince Jon to take the throne from her.
10 minutes of consternation from Jon, who knows what needs to be done, but doesn't want it.
15 minutes of resolution, likely Jon executing Dany.
5 minutes of people just walking away, while Jon refuses to sit on the throne, probably walking away and leaving it to whoever decides to claim it.

Varys was sending out letters across the land about Jon being the rightful heir. That was his treason (he didn't disappear after that, which doesn't make sense, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯).

However, when Greyworm came for him, he was reading a response from someone, and then burned it.

THEORY TIME!

It was a response from Howland Reed, who was confirming that he will show up in King's Landing to back up the claim that Ned Stark took Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen's infant child, and rightful heir to the Iron Throne, from the Tower of Joy, and that said child is Jon Snow, actually named Aegon Targaryen.

Bran knows, and Sam corroborated via maester's scroll, but Dany could tell everyone at her victory coronation that it's a misinformation campaign... it's key that someone who KNOWS via first-person account would show up to back Jon's claim, should a situation arise where Jon decides to stake his claim, against his own will (aka, when the prospective Queen has decided to burn hundreds of thousands of innocent people for no reason, so you gotta step up and take the throne just so she can't have it, so you can then give up that same throne almost immediately).

Howland Reed is Expert Witness #1 being called to the stand in Dany's coronation/trial.

Where is Drogon in all of this? Reading these theories makes it sound like they would just easily say Dany get out of the way for the ruler we want.

 

[ACamp1900]

Where is Drogon in all of this? Reading these theories makes it sound like they would just easily say Dany get out of the way for the ruler we want.

Yeah it's going to be interesting how they deal with the remaining dragon (assuming Dany doesn't sit on the throne w her dragon at the end) after it just destroyed KL with ease.

 

[gkIrish]

Varys was sending out letters across the land about Jon being the rightful heir. That was his treason (he didn't disappear after that, which doesn't make sense, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯).

However, when Greyworm came for him, he was reading a response from someone, and then burned it.

THEORY TIME!

It was a response from Howland Reed, who was confirming that he will show up in King's Landing to back up the claim that Ned Stark took Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen's infant child, and rightful heir to the Iron Throne, from the Tower of Joy, and that said child is Jon Snow, actually named Aegon Targaryen.

Bran knows, and Sam corroborated via maester's scroll, but Dany could tell everyone at her victory coronation that it's a misinformation campaign... it's key that someone who KNOWS via first-person account would show up to back Jon's claim, should a situation arise where Jon decides to stake his claim, against his own will (aka, when the prospective Queen has decided to burn hundreds of thousands of innocent people for no reason, so you gotta step up and take the throne just so she can't have it, so you can then give up that same throne almost immediately).

Howland Reed is Expert Witness #1 being called to the stand in Dany's coronation/trial.

This would be beautiful because Howland Reed is relatively unknown to most show watchers but book readers would get super hyped and immediately know what's going down. They could show a 30 second flashback of the Tower of Joy or something and then show watchers would be like OHHHHHH.

 

[IrishLax]

Varys was sending out letters across the land about Jon being the rightful heir. That was his treason (he didn't disappear after that, which doesn't make sense, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯).

However, when Greyworm came for him, he was reading a response from someone, and then burned it.

THEORY TIME!

It was a response from Howland Reed, who was confirming that he will show up in King's Landing to back up the claim that Ned Stark took Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen's infant child, and rightful heir to the Iron Throne, from the Tower of Joy, and that said child is Jon Snow, actually named Aegon Targaryen.

Bran knows, and Sam corroborated via maester's scroll, but Dany could tell everyone at her victory coronation that it's a misinformation campaign... it's key that someone who KNOWS via first-person account would show up to back Jon's claim, should a situation arise where Jon decides to stake his claim, against his own will (aka, when the prospective Queen has decided to burn hundreds of thousands of innocent people for no reason, so you gotta step up and take the throne just so she can't have it, so you can then give up that same throne almost immediately).

Howland Reed is Expert Witness #1 being called to the stand in Dany's coronation/trial.

Would love it, which means it won't happen.

 

[Emcee77]

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martins-last-two-books-a/1100-6466841/

This feels like a trick.

As flagged on Reddit, Barristan Selmy actor Ian McElhinney made a claim during a panel in April at Epic Con in St. Petersburg, Russia, that will have book fans screaming: Supposedly, Martin has finished the last two books of the series, "The Winds of Winter" and "A Dream of Spring." He just hasn't published them yet due to a deal he struck.

"I don't know if you know more than me about this, but what I've been told is that George has already written books six and seven," McElhinney said. "And as far as he's concerned, there only are seven books. But he struck an agreement with David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss], the showrunners of the series, that he would not publish the final two books until the series has completed. So all goes well, in another month or two, we might get books six and seven, and I'm intrigued to know how Barristan, for instance, ends up going through those final two books."

 

[IrishLion]

Don't do that to me.

Not now.

 

[greyhammer90]

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martins-last-two-books-a/1100-6466841/

This feels like a trick.

On the one hand, this would be a betrayal and I would be furious.

On the other hand, it means that Book 6 and 7 actually exist and I'm going to get to read them.

 

[IrishLion]

On the one hand, this would be a betrayal and I would be furious.

On the other hand, it means that Book 6 and 7 actually exist and I'm going to get to read them.

Could it explain why he's been able to work on and complete so many pet projects? And why he's been able to focus on editing the Wildcards series, and getting that show produced, and the prequel GoT shows, too?

No. I refuse to believe.

It's much more likely that he knows he can't finish ASoIaF, so he's given up and moved on to everything else.

 

[zelezo vlk]

The show could end poorly if it means that Books 6 and 7 are done.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

A lot of my complaints have already been registered, but I'll toss my 2c in:

• They just completely butchered Jamie's arc. There was no redemption for him, and minimal character development. How does this happen? He's easily one of the top 5 most important characters, and yet they wrote him like they'd never even read the books.
• How did no one end up killing Cersei!? There's a whole prophecy about who kills her and how. Is it Jamie? Tyrion? Arya? Nope. They chose to ignore the GRRM's obvious setup in favor of a totally anticlimactic ending that ruined Jamie as well.
• So Drogon destroys Euron's ship while he's standing on it, he gets blown into the water, swims at least a mile to King's Landing, and washes ashore at the exact moment that Jamie is walking by? And then has the strength to nearly defeat him in a duel, stabbing him twice in the gut with a short-sword. Jamie seems to be near death (as he should be), rallies to beat Euron, and then just walks it off to go find Cersei. Euron dies smiling because he's "the man who killed Jamie Lannister". And "fucked the queen" (though that's not a very exclusive club in KL). Just a bizarre mix of incoherent motivations.
• This was mentioned on /r/asoiaf; they only put Arya in KL to show the carnage, but Davos would have been a way better choice there. Having grown up in Flea Bottom and traumatized by the burning of Shireen, he would have been a much better vehicle for conveying what Benioff and Weiss wanted.
• How much screen time has been dedicated to "the horrors of war"? Benioff & Weiss are obviously very comfortable writing those sorts of scenes, since the bulk of several episodes have been dedicated to it. Just frustrating to keep running over the same ground with all the character development that's been cut in favor of it.
• Dany's heel turn was rushed. And her deciding to utterly destroy the city she's dreamed of retaking her whole life--after she'd just won--was tough to buy. Same with her soldiers murdering and raping while Dany is indiscriminately strafing the city with dragonfire. You'd expect their instinct for self-preservation to kick in at some point.
• So who kills Dany now? In the books, it's likely Jon. He's Azor Azhai, Dany is his Nyssa Nyssa, and he'll have to run her through with Longclaw in order to forge Lightbringer and defeat the Night King. But all that context is gone now. Perhaps Bran wargs into Drogon and kills her. Maybe she kills herself out of guilt. Or Arya could steal Tony Hawk's face, do a sweet 360 varial kickflip to land behind Dany just before her coronation, and kill her with some kewl tagline. Who cares? It's all so incredibly stupid now.

Ironically, I think this garbage ending may create even more hype for TWoW, since everyone will want to see how these stories really end. Would be hilarious if GRRM gave Benioff & Weiss a fake ending, and that's what we're seeing now. But it seems more likely that they're just making this up themselves.

 

[zelezo vlk]

[*]So who kills Dany now? In the books, it's likely Jon. He's Azor Azhai, Dany is his Nyssa Nyssa, and he'll have to run her through with Longclaw in order to forge Lightbringer and defeat the Night King. But all that context is gone now. Perhaps Bran wargs into Drogon and kills her. Maybe she kills herself out of guilt. Or Arya could steal Tony Hawk's face, do a sweet 360 varial kickflip to land behind Dany just before her coronation, and kill her with some kewl tagline. Who cares? It's all so incredibly stupid now.[/LIST]

 

[ND NYC]

how great would it be if old Barristan Selmy was right

 

[ACamp1900]

[*]So who kills Dany now? In the books, it's likely Jon. He's Azor Azhai, Dany is his Nyssa Nyssa, and he'll have to run her through with Longclaw in order to forge Lightbringer and defeat the Night King.

So you are confident the NK will be a thing in the books??

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Oh, and the Cleganes. In the books, everyone thinks Sandor is dead. But there are clues that he was saved by Septon Meribald and found peace at a monastery. So when Cleganebowl actually happens, it'll be a reformed Sandor stepping forth as a Champion of the Seven versus Gregor, the undead monstrosity.

Conversely, GoT Sandor hasn't changed a bit. He's still as bitter and driven by revenge as ever. So Benioff and Weiss send him off by cutting down three Kingsguard in about 5 seconds (so much for that august institution), fighting with his brother, unleashing a scream of primal fury and tackling unGregor out of a ruined tower into an inferno below. All pretty pointless. It's not like that suicide mission to kill his brother saved lives or changed the outcome of Dany's attack.

So you are confident the NK will be a thing in the books??

Doesn't really matter. It could be a single Big Bad like the NK or a succession of Others. But the prophecies make it pretty clear that: (1) Jon is this age's Last Hero; (2) forging Lightbringer is important to defeating the Army of the Dead; and (3) that Lightbringer will have to be quenched in the heart of Jon's beloved. Lines up nicely with Dany going mad as well, because otherwise Jon would be a monster for killing her.

 

[ACamp1900]

Oh, and the Cleganes. In the books, everyone thinks Sandor is dead. But there are clues that he was saved by Septon Meribald and found peace at a monastery. So when Cleganebowl actually happens, it'll be a reformed Sandor stepping forth as a Champion of the Seven versus Gregor, the undead monstrosity.

Conversely, GoT Sandor hasn't changed a bit. He's still as bitter and driven by revenge as ever. So Benioff and Weiss send him off by cutting down three Kingsguard in about 5 seconds (so much for that august institution), fighting with his brother, unleashing a scream of primal fury and tackling unGregor out of a ruined tower into an inferno below. All pretty pointless. It's not like that suicide mission to kill his brother saved lives or changed the outcome of Dany's attack.



Doesn't really matter. It could be a single Big Bad like the NK or a succession of Others. But the prophecies make it pretty clear that: (1) Jon is this age's Last Hero; (2) forging Lightbringer is important to defeating the Army of the Dead; and (3) that Lightbringer will have to be quenched in the heart of Jon's beloved. Lines up nicely with Dany going mad as well, because otherwise Jon would be a monster for killing her.

Gotcha... on the Cleganes... it's not certain that Gregor isn't dead too if I remember right. correct?

 

[ACamp1900]

One thing that is cool about the show is it helps keep things in order in my head. I find it easier to keep all the various story-lines straight when much of them now have a visual counterpart.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Gotcha... on the Cleganes... it's not certain that Gregor isn't dead too if I remember right. correct?

Martin's Gregor is definitely "dead". Oberyn's poison kills him slowly and painfully after their duel. Qyburn removes his head, reanimates the body, and has him wear a full suit of armor (including a greathelm to hide the fact that he's headless). Qyburn and Cersei refer to him as "Sir Robert Strong". He never says anything, but it's not obvious to anyone else that he's a zombie.

 

[ACamp1900]

Martin's Gregor is definitely "dead". Oberyn's poison kills him slowly and painfully after their duel. Qyburn removes his head, reanimates the body, and has him wear a full suit of armor (including a greathelm to hide the fact that he's headless). Qyburn and Cersei refer to him as "Sir Robert Strong". He never says anything, but it's not obvious to anyone else that he's a zombie.

Yeah that's what I thought... so you are referring to Sandor maybe battling the 'thing'.?? I guess that's how it played out in the show too? I never really kept up with the Mountain in the show so idk...

 

[IrishLion]

Martin's Gregor is definitely "dead". Oberyn's poison kills him slowly and painfully after their duel. Qyburn removes his head, reanimates the body, and has him wear a full suit of armor (including a greathelm to hide the fact that he's headless). Qyburn and Cersei refer to him as "Sir Robert Strong". He never says anything, but it's not obvious to anyone else that he's a zombie.

I don't remember any info that hinted at him being headless, but it's been a while since I've read the books.

 

[IrishLax]

I don't remember any info that hinted at him being headless, but it's been a while since I've read the books.

Me neither, thought they faked the head.

 

[ACamp1900]

His head was cut off given as a trophy to the Martell's, but they don't really believe it's him. Honestly the most I remember about that whole story line is that I was never really that into it and it took a LOOOONNGG time to play out. Wasn't he 'dying' for like three full books or some such, it felt like it anyway.

 

[GATTACA!]

Varys was sending out letters across the land about Jon being the rightful heir. That was his treason (he didn't disappear after that, which doesn't make sense, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯).

However, when Greyworm came for him, he was reading a response from someone, and then burned it.

THEORY TIME!

It was a response from Howland Reed, who was confirming that he will show up in King's Landing to back up the claim that Ned Stark took Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen's infant child, and rightful heir to the Iron Throne, from the Tower of Joy, and that said child is Jon Snow, actually named Aegon Targaryen.

Bran knows, and Sam corroborated via maester's scroll, but Dany could tell everyone at her victory coronation that it's a misinformation campaign... it's key that someone who KNOWS via first-person account would show up to back Jon's claim, should a situation arise where Jon decides to stake his claim, against his own will (aka, when the prospective Queen has decided to burn hundreds of thousands of innocent people for no reason, so you gotta step up and take the throne just so she can't have it, so you can then give up that same throne almost immediately).

Howland Reed is Expert Witness #1 being called to the stand in Dany's coronation/trial.

Why wouldn't Dany just kill Jon? It's nonsensical.

Also there's zero chance they introduce Howland Reed. They don't need him with Bran and Sam both able to corroborate, and show only viewers, who it's clear are being pandered to at this point, have no idea who that is.

 

[GATTACA!]

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martins-last-two-books-a/1100-6466841/

This feels like a trick.

I legit might cry tears of joy if that's true.

 

[zelezo vlk]

https://www.change.org/p/reddit-hire-hannah-waddingham-to-walk-behind-d-d-game-of-thrones-producers

 

[IrishLion]

Why wouldn't Dany just kill Jon? It's nonsensical.

Also there's zero chance they introduce Howland Reed. They don't need him with Bran and Sam both able to corroborate, and show only viewers, who it's clear are bei g pansered to at this point, have no idea who that is.

I thought she was going to, for sure. It would make sense for her to do so, since her madness is in large part motivated by the danger he and his potential future family present, but I don’t think the show goes that way at this point because of how things went down.

Killing Jon would’ve been her “Breaking Mad” moment, probably. Since they *wasted* it on her burning KL, I think Jon is going to bring her to justice... the man that passes the sentence should swing the sword.