Everything Soccer

[stlnd01]

It's basically this.

If you're an athletic kid growing up in America, you are more likely to gravitate towards basketball or football. Then behind that, soccer is fighting hockey and baseball for the bronze.

On one end, soccer is far and away the most accessible sport of the 3. On the other, baseball is MUCH higher paying on the high end and has a far more established farm system in the US than soccer does.

Baseball and Hockey also have the benefit of the US having the premier league in the world. The best players from all around the world come to the US to play in the MLB or NHL. That's not really the case with MLS. The US lacks the footprint on the sport that they have in football, basketball, baseball and hockey.

FWIW, soccer is also by FAR the weakest at the college level. Especially for men. There's no money in it. Until recently they were capped at 10 scholarships. A surprising number of P4 schools don't even field varsity men's soccer teams. I get why - Europe dominates the sport and the European mind can't really conceive of college athletics as we know it - but it removes a major pipeline for higher-level development, and exposure, that is present in those other sports.

 

[notredomer23]

FWIW, soccer is also by FAR the weakest at the college level. Especially for men. There's no money in it. Until recently they were capped at 10 scholarships. A surprising number of P4 schools don't even field varsity men's soccer teams. I get why - Europe dominates the sport and the European mind can't really conceive of college athletics as we know it - but it removes a major pipeline for higher-level development, and exposure, that is present in those other sports.

The most direct route to professional soccer is MLS academies. Majority of professional US born players get their start in MLS academies in their early teens, and can sign professional contracts as young as 14 I believe (might be 16, I forget). MLS has the USL Pro II where all the younger talents not quite ready for MLS go to. USL Pro has only been a thing for the last 2 or 3 years. Soccer is different from baseball, hockey etc where you can break into the big time much younger hence no need for college. Usually these academies have a decent idea by 17 or 18 if they’re going to pan out, and if they believe so, they can sign a rookie contract valued over $90k/year + bonuses. If they don’t sign, that’s when they go to college, so lesser (still quality, just not quite professional) talent is generally going there. Some end up developing just fine in college, but that’s becoming rarer and rarer.

 

[stlnd01]

Do you think it's bigger than lacrosse? Particularly on the east coast?

Not even close. I live just outside Boston, with two sportsy boys ages 12 and 16. I know a few kids who play lacrosse; more who play hockey. But every single kid I know plays soccer, at least at a town level if not club.

At this point it's not about participation, or probably even sheer athleticism, so much as it is about development. Our model - especially at the middle level, between town soccer and elite MLS academy type programs - is so dependent on parents having time and money to get their kids to club practice in some suburb, or some silly tournament a plane ride away. It's naturally going to filter out lots and lots of players. Particularly ones from immigrant communities where you get a soccer ball for your first birthday. They might play town soccer, they might even play in high school or for some local club. But they're not likely to get found and funnelled into the kind of development and training it takes to become an elite player. Whereas in Europe it seems like they do.

 

[Dale]

All the low level athletes play soccer is a very boomer take.

 

[greyhammer90]

All the low level athletes play soccer is a very boomer take.

These soccer kids need a good war to toughen them up.

 

[Lord Jim]

The problem soccer in the US has is that if Erling Haaland grew up here, he'd be playing tight end. Strikers with 4.3 speed that are over 5'10" will be playing cornerback. We get great soccer athletes, but not the cream of the crop and we never will.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Eight nations have won a men's World Cup. Ever. 5 Europe, 3 South America. It's incredibly hard to do.

The three who have won the most (Brazil, Germany, Italy) are all going through some things at the moment. Uruguay's last was 1950, England's last and only was 1966.

We need to keep taking small steps. We'll get there. It's going to take time, and this only comes around every four years. Having this team go on a run like this, having Messi in MLS, will only help to grow the game. It comes down to improving the infrastructure of our youth system and making the game more accessible to more kids. If you price families out, it won't work. If you're focused on 10 year olds gunning for a tournament title in Racine, WI rather than teaching them the technical aspects of the game, it's going to fail.

Just keep going. Keep supporting the team and sport year round however you can. Last night was disappointing, but not terribly shocking. A very experienced team in the top ten gave us a beating. Move on to the next tournament and learn from this.

 

[thekid33]

It comes down to improving the infrastructure of our youth system and making the game more accessible to more kids. If you price families out, it won't work. If you're focused on 10 year olds gunning for a tournament title in Racine, WI rather than teaching them the technical aspects of the game, it's going to fail.

So, it's going to fail 😂

Unfortunately, the grassroots systems aren't set up to capitalize on the momentum from the success at the international level.

But, if you drop thousands of dollars each year your kid might end up playing D3. Possibly even D2! And, there's even one kid from the past 5 years of the team that went D1!!

 

[Dale]

The crux of the issue with US Soccer is one question IMO: did Malik Tillman look far more talented, more athletic than everyone else on the squad or far better trained?

and there is your answer.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

The crux of the issue with US Soccer is one question IMO: did Malik Tillman look far more talented, more athletic than everyone else on the squad or far better trained?

and there is your answer.

Yes

 

[ACamp1900]

Half full take, this country has only taken this sport even half serious for 30 years,… and our boys are already basically mainstays in the knockouts. I know we all wanted a round of 8 here but we’ve come a long way really freakin quickly,… nobody sees a path where we regress as a nation and issues aside the only realistic view of the future is some level of improvement.

Just win the Gold Cup next summer and go from there

 

[NDPhilly]

Seems to me that you need to get these super talented kids into dedicated soccer academies / travel programs before they turn 10 for them to have a chance of being high level professional players. Just isn’t the way US youth sports operate. I personally don’t know anyone who had their kid solely focus on one sport until at least middle school, and at that point it’s probably too late to be the type of soccer player we need (not just talking about D1 college players).

Personally, I couldn’t imagine forcing my kid into one sport at 7 when there’s so many options in the US available to them.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Sitting here waiting for someone to post a full-blown China response to generating an All-World soccer system...

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Just win the Gold Cup next summer and go from there

This.

These guys need to show up for it this time around. Musah didn't play in the last one and it probably cost him a spot on the WC team.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Still proud of the team. They gave us 3 weeks of fun and something to celebrate.

Except Pulisic. He's soft, uncommitted, shrinks in the big moments and wants to be courted like a superstar. He doesn't need to be on the team going forward. I don't care what his reputation is or what club team he plays for.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I believe that our girls (USWNT) revitalized their top-level standing by having LOTS of college level high quality opportunity/coaching as a feeder system. Others have mentioned that our guys don't really have much of this. (That's a "gift" of Title 9 --- which I'm generally a fan of but not in this "cancel-the-boys-sports" way.) Also, on a completely different dimension, our "little girls" have a raft of US "heroes" to look up to and our "little boys" don't (Pulisic hardly rates with the USWNT dream teams or even the current female stars.)

Both of these issues seem to require some time to rectify, in my intuition.

 

[calvegas04]

They need to move college soccer to a different season, can't compete with football

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I've never been a huge Pulisic fan, but some of the stuff that has been being said about him in the last 12 hours is harsh. I will always maintain that he sabotaged his own career by going to Chelsea and it ultimately hurt his trajectory. I'm not going to question anything else about him other than that decision. I realize that when certain offers come you have to go, but Chelsea has proven to be dysfunctional for a while now and Christian found this out the hard way. I don't know what else was available to him at the time, but when you look at the guys who have left Borussia Dortmund and what they've gone on to do elsewhere in Europe, he stands out as one that took a big step back.

That being said, he assisted a goal in a Champions League final that Chelsea won. Few can say that, let alone American players.

As much as we'd all love to have a squad of 24 Clint Dempseys, the reality is we're going to have a roster full of different personalities and skill sets that is up to Pochettino or whomever to manage. With the way youth soccer is set up, we probably don't see a guy like Clint Dempsey again for a while, if ever.

 

[ACamp1900]

He played one half in this tournament before getting hurt,… and looked absolutely electric in it. The player I came away from this thinking he’s done is Weah which sucks bc he was my favorite usmnt player coming into this World Cup…

 

[MPClinton22]

Another issue I've heard mentioned a few times but not discussed often is coaching. Some of the best european coaches are actually youth coaches in the academy system (or whatever the european equivalent is). Here, any decent coach moves up through the ranks, when in reality they'd be most useful teaching proper fundamentals to our kids. We have enough talent, just from a numbers perspective, to be better than this - but we don't teach the sport correctly at a young enough age. There's a reason our best players on this team are the ones that grew up in the European systems

 

[NorthDakota]

The problem soccer in the US has is that if Erling Haaland grew up here, he'd be playing tight end. Strikers with 4.3 speed that are over 5'10" will be playing cornerback. We get great soccer athletes, but not the cream of the crop and we never will.

To me it's not about the physical freaks but this is still consistent with the more broad theme.

Lots of kids who could be good simply don't play or dont play beyond little kid youth soccer at the local park. A lot stop travel ball in middle school once football is available.

The successful countries don't have this problem. Soccer is life unless/until the kid shows extreme promise at something else. In Europe and South America, that game is probably tennis. Basketball if they are tall. In Scandinavia and Russia...throw in hockey.

Here, soccer has to compete for interest from the get-go. That's a double-edged sword. It reduces development AND interest in general. I don't think any amount of feasible financial investment can really fix that.

 

[pumpdog20]

It's basically this.

If you're an athletic kid growing up in America, you are more likely to gravitate towards basketball or football. Then behind that, soccer is fighting hockey and baseball for the bronze.

On one end, soccer is far and away the most accessible sport of the 3. On the other, baseball is MUCH higher paying on the high end and has a far more established farm system in the US than soccer does.

Baseball and Hockey also have the benefit of the US having the premier league in the world. The best players from all around the world come to the US to play in the MLB or NHL. That's not really the case with MLS. The US lacks the footprint on the sport that they have in football, basketball, baseball and hockey.

Maybe... but my experience is that baseball is making a resurgence and football is taking a step back.

Soccer requires a skillset that US kids just aren't going to get because they 1) don't practice; 2) don't play pick up ball. I'm not saying US kids don't work hard. But they don't practice because they are too busy playing too many "live or die" games. The training that they do on the side is more focused on getting bigger, faster, stronger... not necessarily on skill building for the sport they are trying to get bigger faster stronger for. It's why the world is catching up in the pro leagues of various sports.

 

[NorthDakota]

They need to move college soccer to a different season, can't compete with football

Maybe. But I think the hope/expectation is that by the time a kid needs to choose, he's hopefully showed the necessary promise at soccer to stick with it.

I think making it a spring sport would be better for getting the community/school invested.

 

[Dale]

Seems to me that you need to get these super talented kids into dedicated soccer academies / travel programs before they turn 10 for them to have a chance of being high level professional players. Just isn’t the way US youth sports operate. I personally don’t know anyone who had their kid solely focus on one sport until at least middle school, and at that point it’s probably too late to be the type of soccer player we need (not just talking about D1 college players).

Personally, I couldn’t imagine forcing my kid into one sport at 7 when there’s so many options in the US available to them.

- Youth coaching costs too much
- Youth coaching is not good enough
- Americans are less likely to be willing to relocate for sports.

Odell Beckham for example said he was given US Youth and European academy looks but did not want to move.

So you can make it cheaper, sure. But the coaches aren’t gonna be good. Can you just make the better? Probably need European influence. I bet that will cost more then. Well then just move? Americans are generally unwilling to move across the ocean for anything, much less soccer. Compare that to a Spanish person moving to England, Moroccan moving to Paris or even idk a Dutch person moving to Germany. That’s just a kid from Ohio moving to Florida at that point.

Even look at University of Texas, they are training half of the Olympians worldwide in swimming. Idk just a cultural thing with Americans and willingness to relocate at all costs at a young age.

Are European clubs investing in American youth? Or they just DGAF? Because those coaches I’m sure could make a hell of a lot more here.

 

[pumpdog20]

Also, I think you people need to calm the fuck down. No, we should not be taking our elite athletes away from football, basketball, or baseball. What the hell has happened to some of you. lol

 

[NorthDakota]

- Youth coaching costs too much
- Youth coaching is not good enough
- Americans are less likely to be willing to relocate for sports.

Odell Beckham for example said he was given US Youth and European academy looks but did not want to move.

So you can make it cheaper, sure. But the coaches aren’t gonna be good. Can you just make the better? Probably need European influence. I bet that will cost more then. Well then just move? Americans are generally unwilling to move across the ocean for anything, much less soccer. Compare that to a Spanish person moving to England, Moroccan moving to Paris or even idk a Dutch person moving to Germany. That’s just a kid from Ohio moving to Florida at that point.

Sounds like hockey (moving for a child or finding them a billet). If that's what it is going to take, I think we are a long ways off from competing.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

He played one half in this tournament before getting hurt,… and looked absolutely electric in it. The player I came away from this thinking he’s done is Weah which sucks bc he was my favorite usmnt player coming into this World Cup…

I am a big Weah fan. The opportunity he was given vs Turkey was not his finest hour by any means. What he does from here is going to be key for him.

I'd say that for Musah as well, who is another favorite of mine.

When Christian is fit and he's on, not a lot needs to be said.

 

[thekid33]

Also, I think you people need to calm the fuck down. No, we should not be taking our elite athletes away from football, basketball, or baseball. What the hell has happened to some of you. lol

I don't think we need to take elite athletes away from those sports. But, perhaps we could do a better job of moving some of the kids that are one tier below that away from those sports a little sooner? The kind of athlete that might be able to play D1 but has no real chance of going pro.

 

[PolishDomer]

They need to move college soccer to a different season, can't compete with football

They are moving D1 to a Fall and Spring season to spread out games...soccer is a pretty intense game and the fitness level is top notch.

 

[pumpdog20]

I don't think we need to take elite athletes away from those sports. But, perhaps we could do a better job of moving some of the kids that are one tier below that away from those sports a little sooner? The kind of athlete that might be able to play D1 but has no real chance of going pro.

I think it's good in theory, but how would you find those kids. Once you realize you aren't going pro, you're probably to old to switch to soccer. But maybe not.