Everything Soccer

[calvegas04]

They are moving D1 to a Fall and Spring season to spread out games...soccer is a pretty intense game and the fitness level is top notch.

I'm taking about with getting eyes on the game. Could be a great atmosphere if they moved the games to spring time

 

[NorthDakota]

I think it's good in theory, but how would you find those kids. Once you realize you aren't going pro, you're probably to old to switch to soccer. But maybe not.

That's the biggest issue and I'm not sure you can really solve for it. Need the interest level there from early childhood

 

[Dale]

The WC will help, Messi’s presence in America in general I think helps (besides burying MLS on Apple TV). Frankly as we see with many European teams develop, immigration patterns certainly impact things. But yes dedication needs to be established in grade school. This isn’t about funding varsity HS or college coaching, it’s too late at that point when talking WC level play.

 

[IrishLax]

FWIW, soccer is also by FAR the weakest at the college level. Especially for men. There's no money in it. Until recently they were capped at 10 scholarships. A surprising number of P4 schools don't even field varsity men's soccer teams. I get why - Europe dominates the sport and the European mind can't really conceive of college athletics as we know it - but it removes a major pipeline for higher-level development, and exposure, that is present in those other sports.

This is a huge issue, and to compound the problem the coaches at D1 schools are recruiting "semi pro" players from South America and Europe instead of HS Americans. I had a kid on my team a few years ago who was OK at lacrosse but a *top* player on a top club for soccer and got ZERO traction from major colleges in recruiting because the spots are all going to "proven" players from outside the country.

All of this downstream from the MLS being a horribly run league that protects its ownership over going to a European pro/rel setup that incentivizes winning and development.

 

[NDPhilly]

I think having an actual American star (not Pulisic / Donovan / Dempsey level but true top 10 plater in the world) would go much further than a run to a quarter final to grow the game

 

[Dale]

I think having an actual American star (not Pulisic / Donovan / Dempsey level but true top 10 plater in the world) would go much further than a run to a quarter final to grow the game

IMO it is unofficially Messi. We know we don’t want to pigeonhole young Americans to MLS anymore. Just keep chipping away at getting over the hump superstars to MLS until a savior is born.

 

[thekid33]

I think it's good in theory, but how would you find those kids. Once you realize you aren't going pro, you're probably to old to switch to soccer. But maybe not.

No question that they way we do things now it would be too late.

Whatever the solution is involves changing the mindset of kids/parents at an earlier age to accept that they don't need to specialize in one sport.

I teach HS and the number of kids that are very good 2-3 sport athletes in 9th grade that drop down to only one by 10th or 11th because that is what club/college coaches are telling them to do is very high.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I am going to try to summarize my thoughts as best as I can. The overarching reaction to last night from US soccer fans seems to be "more of the same". But I'd argue this World Cup was quite different from prior iterations of the USMNT. We've seen our style morph into a proper possession and counter pressing European model. This is not something that happens overnight. It takes players with high level technical abilities and high level tactical awareness, as well as a coach who understands how to get all the pieces to fit.

The performance against Belgium last night was so bizarre and disappointing to me precisely  because this wasnt a "more of the same" type of team. But on the surface it does appear that way, we just got smacked around by a top 10 European team like we always do. Why?

-There was poor energy to start the game, we did the opposite in the prior 4 games.
-Our first touch was terrible, across the board, which lead to repeated give aways in the middle of the field.
-Passing was off, we saw very little one/two touch combination passing in the attacking third.
-Defensive marking and general close outs on players with the ball in the defensive third. First two goals were a direct result of poor closeouts and/or poor tracking of runners.
-2nd balls, we just didn't anticipate to win enough of them
-The last 2 goals were just poor decision making from our defense, period. No other explanations for those.

But, there is a reason Belgium, despite their aging stars, is a top 10 team. They are skilled and physical. People who don't really follow soccer closely comment how "they didn't even start their star players!" Well, yeah thats because KDB and Doku were not good against Senegal and really haven't been good all tournament. So what did their coach do? He reached into their depth chart and brought on guys who could fit the game plan vs the US. Which included shutting down the wings (Dest and Pulisic mainly) and forcing play into the middle of the field where they were confident in the ability to control. It helps they have one of the most underrated footballers in the world there in Tielemans - who had a masterclass performance last night. We didn't really start to threaten them until the 2nd half, but then the Freese disaster happened and killed any momentum for a tying goal.

It was just poor all around and perhaps just a bad matchup for us. I do think Senegal would have been much more manageable.

 

[thekid33]

 

[dublinirish]

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I agree with this actually. Its hard to find satisfying alternative explanations.

 

[FWIrish4]

Idk man you can’t tell me Jeremiyah Love deciding to play football instead of soccer at an early age doesn’t make a difference. He would be the best athlete in the entire tournament.

Also, hockey figured it out back in around 2010 with the national development team program.

I’ll also compliment them on the system they have in place to introduce kids into hockey. My son is 4 and legit knows how to skate and is in Hockey 3/4 now. Started in the Learn to Skate program and progressed through each class with specific skills he must pass before moving on. This is done across the country now with the same standards.

 

[Dale]

Idk man you can’t tell me Jeremiyah Love deciding to play football instead of soccer at an early age doesn’t make a difference. He would be the best athlete in the entire tournament.

Also, hockey figured it out back in around 2010 with the national development team program.

I’ll also compliment them on the system they have in place to introduce kids into hockey. My son is 4 and legit knows how to skate and is in Hockey 3/4 now. Started in the Learn to Skate program and progressed through each class with specific skills he must pass before moving on. This is done across the country now with the same standards.

He could also be the soccer equivalent of George Atkinson, if it was that simple, it would be that easy to field a team.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

Idk man you can’t tell me Jeremiyah Love deciding to play football instead of soccer at an early age doesn’t make a difference. He would be the best athlete in the entire tournament.

Also, hockey figured it out back in around 2010 with the national development team program.

I’ll also compliment them on the system they have in place to introduce kids into hockey. My son is 4 and legit knows how to skate and is in Hockey 3/4 now. Started in the Learn to Skate program and progressed through each class with specific skills he must pass before moving on. This is done across the country now with the same standards.

In reality, we're not in a horrible spot. I believe we are on the cusp, just need more tweaks and access. If they can bring down the cost to the local affiliates and support them than we are cooking.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Idk man you can’t tell me Jeremiyah Love deciding to play football instead of soccer at an early age doesn’t make a difference. He would be the best athlete in the entire tournament.

Also, hockey figured it out back in around 2010 with the national development team program.

I’ll also compliment them on the system they have in place to introduce kids into hockey. My son is 4 and legit knows how to skate and is in Hockey 3/4 now. Started in the Learn to Skate program and progressed through each class with specific skills he must pass before moving on. This is done across the country now with the same standards.

Not just Love. All of the Power 4 Sateties, Corners, Receivers and Running Backs.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

Not just Love. All of the Power 4 Sateties, Corners, Receivers and Running Backs.

Imagine these boys suiting up and putting on the jersey. We would be the most fearsome team in the world (We may lose every game though)

 

[FWIrish4]

He could also be the soccer equivalent of George Atkinson, if it was that simple, it would be that easy to field a team.

You’re taking it too literally. Apply the law of large numbers to every NFL skill player that probably < 10% ever played soccer in their life.

You don’t think we’d be able to hit on 15 elite athletes for a great team if they grew up playing soccer instead? There’s around 795 active NFL players at RB, WR, TE, CB and S. You just need a ~2% hit rate on some of the most athletic people on earth.

Throw in elite college players and it’s even lower of what you would need.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

I mean, we put little to no emphasis on soccer and we're still a Top 15 team. It's not like we're dead last or something. That was the Rd of 16 at the World Cup with 48 teams in it. Hell, Italy didn't even qualify. We had a bad night, for sure. But we're certainly capable of playing them much closer. Look what Paraguya did. And we clobbered them.

 

[Dale]

You’re taking it too literally. Apply the law of large numbers to every NFL skill player that probably < 10% ever played soccer in their life.

You don’t think we’d be able to hit on 15 elite athletes for a great team if they grew up playing soccer instead? There’s around 795 active NFL players at RB, WR, TE, CB and S. You just need a ~2% hit rate on some of the most athletic people on earth.

Throw in elite college players and it’s even lower of what you would need.

By law of numbers, the US already has a far superior number thrown at soccer than most of the world. The issue isn’t number of elite athletes.

Here is my take with not liking the “our guys player other sports angle”. 500 coaches/leaders would have a bigger impact on US Soccer than 5,000 more athletes.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Meanwhile FIFA trying everything they can to make sure Egypt doesn't hold this lead against Messi.

 

[thekid33]

Corruption is a BS VAR call overturning a goal that would put Argentina down 2-0

 

[NorthDakota]

You’re taking it too literally. Apply the law of large numbers to every NFL skill player that probably < 10% ever played soccer in their life.

You don’t think we’d be able to hit on 15 elite athletes for a great team if they grew up playing soccer instead? There’s around 795 active NFL players at RB, WR, TE, CB and S. You just need a ~2% hit rate on some of the most athletic people on earth.

Throw in elite college players and it’s even lower of what you would need.

Does the US lose because we aren't athletic enough or do we lose because the other team has better players?

 

[FWIrish4]

By law of numbers, the US already has a far superior number thrown at soccer than most of the world. The issue isn’t number of elite athletes.

Are you sure? I think the plethora of options and popularity of other sports absolutely limits the upside of soccer. Kids have 4 more popular sports in the US they gravitate towards more than soccer. Soccer is easily #1 in basically every other country in the world. It’s different.

Of course development is the key component here for any future success, but I think completely dismissing that our best athletes play other sports is just being disingenuous.

 

[MacIrish75]

Does the US lose because we aren't athletic enough or do we lose because the other team has better players?

We lost because we crapped the bed. That’s it.

Came out flat, got punched in the mouth, fought back. Immediately got punched in the mouth again. Wilted.

 

[FWIrish4]

Does the US lose because we aren't athletic enough or do we lose because the other team has better players?

I’m not a soccer guy, but I would think if soccer was a top 2 sport in popularity in the US vs. #5, we would absolutely have better players on the team. That’s all I’m trying to say and this is true for every sport. I’m not picking at soccer. Hockey happened to figure it out without huge numbers, but soccer hasn’t.

 

[Dale]

Are you sure? I think the plethora of options and popularity of other sports absolutely limits the upside of soccer. Kids have 4 more popular sports in the US they gravitate towards more than soccer. Soccer is easily #1 in basically every other country in the world. It’s different.

Of course development is the key component here for any future success, but I think completely dismissing that our best athletes play other sports is just being disingenuous.

Bro we have millions more youth soccer players than Belgium lol. Numbers are just simply not the issue. We need to do something better with the mass amount we already have.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Egypt kicking the crap out of Argentina and the refs are running out of ways to stop it.

 

[thekid33]

BALL DON'T LIE

 

[jerseyborn1971]

This is what can happen when you don't show up scared. Still surprised we came out like frightened kittens last night.

 

[General Colon Bowel]

Bro we have millions more youth soccer players than Belgium lol. Numbers are just simply not the issue. We need to do something better with the mass amount we already have.

To Dale's point - if you look at the makeup of the current US squad, almost all of the best players spent all or some of their youth years in Europe. Weah, Balogun, Haji Wright, Public, Tillman, McKennie, Reyna, Robinson, Dest.

To me that makes it pretty clear it's a US development problem