Everything Soccer

[stlnd01]

I think the trouble is that you have such wildly different pay structures for the men’s team and the women’s team that you can slice the numbers however best fits your argument (and both sides here have).

I’m not sure why they wouldn’t just both get, say, a $100k base salary, and let the bonuses and such fall as they may. People understand there’s far more money in global men’s soccer, so the bonuses are going to be bigger when the men’s team earns them, but also that the women’s team is better, relatively speaking, and they’re going to earn bonuses more often because they’re going to win more international games.

Also the fact that US Soccer pays the professional-team salaries of the women, but not the men, makes apples-to-apples comparisons hard. Take that part out and do the women still earn more? (But, if you take that out, do you still even have professional women’s soccer?)

 

[stlnd01]

We all know that in sports pay is determined by revenue generated. Revenue generated is determined by attendance and sponsors pay more for teams that have higher attendance and are more popular. Women's soccer doesn't want that because they won't be able to justify their demands when it's pointed out the men's game generates a lot more money than the women's.
.

Don’t tell college football that.

 

[Irish#1]

I think the trouble is that you have such wildly different pay structures for the men’s team and the women’s team that you can slice the numbers however best fits your argument (and both sides here have).

I’m not sure why they wouldn’t just both get, say, a $100k base salary, and let the bonuses and such fall as they may. People understand there’s far more money in global men’s soccer, so the bonuses are going to be bigger when the men’s team earns them, but also that the women’s team is better, relatively speaking, and they’re going to earn bonuses more often because they’re going to win more international games.

Also the fact that US Soccer pays the professional-team salaries of the women, but not the men, makes apples-to-apples comparisons hard. Take that part out and do the women still earn more? (But, if you take that out, do you still even have professional women’s soccer?)

Equal base salaries isn't a bad idea, but highly unlikely to happen because each generates a different level of revenue and each has its own union representation.

 

[Irish Joe]

Maybe I'm over-simplifying this debate and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but is this whole argument akin to WNBA players complaining they don't make Lebron wages? Same sport, employed by the same entity.

I know nothing about the NBA or WNBA structures, is the WNBA is on its own?

 

[notredomer23]

the USWNT has to be careful-- they're gonna mess around and it'll be the end of the NWSL in 2 years.

 

[ACamp1900]

the USWNT has to be careful-- they're gonna mess around and it'll be the end of the NWSL in 2 years.

I've been thinking this too...

 

[stlnd01]

Equal base salaries isn't a bad idea, but highly unlikely to happen because each generates a different level of revenue and each has its own union representation.

I’m by no means expert on global soccer economics, and don’t know the answer to this, but how much of the difference in revenue is really generated by GLOBAL soccer - chiefly men’s World Cup TV/sponsorship deals that are split by all participating nations - vs by domestic US sources (friendlies ticket sales, sponsorships, US TV rights).

In other words, how much of the difference in revenue comes from higher interest in USMNT vs from USMNT drafting on US fan/consumer interest in, say, Brazil and the European powers and international soccer in general?

 

[NorthDakota]

the USWNT has to be careful-- they're gonna mess around and it'll be the end of the NWSL in 2 years.

Yep. I hope they get their funding pulled.

 

[IrishLax]

Maybe I'm over-simplifying this debate and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but is this whole argument akin to WNBA players complaining they don't make Lebron wages? Same sport, employed by the same entity.

I know nothing about the NBA or WNBA structures, is the WNBA is on its own?

There are some parallels, but I don't think it's a great apples-to-apples. Yes, the WNBA is subsidized by the NBA and completely incapable of turning a profit. It's a charity case. In 2018 there were a lot of articles on this topic, because WNBA players were complaining about their pay and CBA negotiations were looming.

The WNBA -- despite all of the institutional support from the NBA -- gets only a small percentage of the viewers of major women's college basketball games. They run up a huge debt and are nowhere close to turn a profit. And professional sports leagues are ostensibly profit making enterprises.

But what's different is that -- while, arguably, US Soccer still "loses money" -- the USWNT team does generate ratings in the Olympics and World Cup. They do sell jerseys. And the main purpose of US Soccer is not to run at a profit. So it's easier to make a case that they're "underpaid" relative to TV ratings, etc. within the country... whereas there is literally no case to be made by anyone with half a brain that the WNBA players are "underpaid."

 

[Rogue219]

Still need someone (or more) to sure up the back line though.

Yeah, that's a considerably greater need for that club.

Pepe is great but he doesn't start for Liverpool. For most clubs, it's Hard to justify spending that much on a guy that isn't in your starting 11. Great player, though. Gives Arsenal a very good attack in the front. Back four is still a bigger need.

 

[Rogue219]

USWNT coach Jill Ellis is stepping down.

Good. Won Back to Back World Cups and goes out on top. Took a lot of criticism that wasn't deserved as far as I'm concerned.

Walk away now while the getting is good.

 

[Irish Joe]

There are some parallels, but I don't think it's a great apples-to-apples. Yes, the WNBA is subsidized by the NBA and completely incapable of turning a profit. It's a charity case. In 2018 there were a lot of articles on this topic, because WNBA players were complaining about their pay and CBA negotiations were looming.

The WNBA -- despite all of the institutional support from the NBA -- gets only a small percentage of the viewers of major women's college basketball games. They run up a huge debt and are nowhere close to turn a profit. And professional sports leagues are ostensibly profit making enterprises.

But what's different is that -- while, arguably, US Soccer still "loses money" -- the USWNT team does generate ratings in the Olympics and World Cup. They do sell jerseys. And the main purpose of US Soccer is not to run at a profit. So it's easier to make a case that they're "underpaid" relative to TV ratings, etc. within the country... whereas there is literally no case to be made by anyone with half a brain that the WNBA players are "underpaid."

Cool, thanks for the insight.

Knowing the USSF is a non-profit is incredibly frustrating when it comes to purchasing tickets.

 

[notredomer23]

USWNT coach Jill Ellis is stepping down.

Good. Won Back to Back World Cups and goes out on top. Took a lot of criticism that wasn't deserved as far as I'm concerned.

Walk away now while the getting is good.

Smart. She can't do anything more than she already has. The team is aging. The rest of the world is catching up.

 

[Irish#1]

I’m by no means expert on global soccer economics, and don’t know the answer to this, but how much of the difference in revenue is really generated by GLOBAL soccer - chiefly men’s World Cup TV/sponsorship deals that are split by all participating nations - vs by domestic US sources (friendlies ticket sales, sponsorships, US TV rights).

In other words, how much of the difference in revenue comes from higher interest in USMNT vs from USMNT drafting on US fan/consumer interest in, say, Brazil and the European powers and international soccer in general?

Clay Travis mentioned it this morning, but alas, it's been about 9 hours since and I've been doing performance reviews today and don't remember the exact numbers. It was pretty significant.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

Numbers are numbers, and these have been independently audited. There have also been quite a few fair articles in recent years about this, albeit no one had a complete set of audited books.

What does the audit prove? Only that they didn't break the law and no one is stealing money? Or would that include a comprehensive look at methods of attributing revenue between the two teams, because that seems to be one large point of contention.

We all know that in sports pay is determined by revenue generated. Revenue generated is determined by attendance and sponsors pay more for teams that have higher attendance and are more popular. Women's soccer doesn't want that because they won't be able to justify their demands when it's pointed out the men's game generates a lot more money than the women's.

You can't equate equal pay in sports to equal pay in business.

The women actually generated more over certain time spans than the men (it really depends on tournament cycles) and that is with some revenue which is general being counted as more for the men.

Maybe I'm over-simplifying this debate and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but is this whole argument akin to WNBA players complaining they don't make Lebron wages? Same sport, employed by the same entity.

I know nothing about the NBA or WNBA structures, is the WNBA is on its own?

IIRC, one of the largest points of the WNBA was that a much lower percent of their revenue was being given to the players, either through salary or expenses. None of them wanted LeBron wages, just an equal amount of the money they generated.

One of the biggest visuals was the teams sleeping on airport floors because they had to take commercial flights between back-to-back games. Maybe that is necessary, but when paired with the fact that less of the revenue was actually being spent, it seemed like the owners could be doing more.

 

[IrishLax]

What does the audit prove? Only that they didn't break the law and no one is stealing money? Or would that include a comprehensive look at methods of attributing revenue between the two teams, because that seems to be one large point of contention.

Just read the damn letter. Or use Google.

These are all biased sources (US Soccer, USWNT, and USMNT all have self-interest). One has provided actual breadth of data supported by a lot of independent journalism that took a look at supposed pay disparity. The other two are trying to leverage more money than they could negotiate through their CBA, and have at no point provided anything other than cherry picked numbers used for PR. You choose who to believe... and never forget, the USWNT literally signed up for their current pay structure as part of a fair, transparent union-bargained CBA.

 

[notredomer23]

Let's be real... if the USWNT played the same amount of games, had the same support that they currently do, but bowed out of the last two World Cups in the quarterfinals, no one would be talking about this.

 

[Old Man Mike]

My view is that this is fine and currently "normal" in sports. People use their prominence to try to get better compensation and playing/traveling conditions --- individual money-crazy contracts by guy superstars seem much more "deplorable" if one was arguing against that.

I say, go for it girls; why not? If you succeed you are just like the rest of the athletic professional community pushing for dollars and facilities. The thing that I DON'T understand is why there is so much flack (relatively) thrown at them. (I can think of a few reasons, but will not mention them due to personal wisdom in searching for a quiet life.)

 

[stlnd01]

My view is that this is fine and currently "normal" in sports. People use their prominence to try to get better compensation and playing/traveling conditions --- individual money-crazy contracts by guy superstars seem much more "deplorable" if one was arguing against that.

I say, go for it girls; why not? If you succeed you are just like the rest of the athletic professional community pushing for dollars and facilities. The thing that I DON'T understand is why there is so much flack (relatively) thrown at them. (I can think of a few reasons, but will not mention them due to personal wisdom in searching for a quiet life.)

This.

 

[Irish#1]

One of the biggest visuals was the teams sleeping on airport floors because they had to take commercial flights between back-to-back games. Maybe that is necessary, but when paired with the fact that less of the revenue was actually being spent, it seemed like the owners could be doing more.

Talk to all the guys in the minor leagues that have to ride buses everywhere. Why do the WNBA players fly commercial instead of charter? Because they aren't making money. Every business looks for ways to keep expenses down, especially when they aren't making money. This may sound callous or chauvinistic, but the WNBA players should thankful there is even a league where they can play and earn some decent money. I've been to a few Fever games and each time the attendance wasn't great. The WNBA couldn't stand on its own without the NBA supporting it. I digress, back to soccer.

 

[Irish#1]

My view is that this is fine and currently "normal" in sports. People use their prominence to try to get better compensation and playing/traveling conditions --- individual money-crazy contracts by guy superstars seem much more "deplorable" if one was arguing against that.

I say, go for it girls; why not? If you succeed you are just like the rest of the athletic professional community pushing for dollars and facilities. The thing that I DON'T understand is why there is so much flack (relatively) thrown at them. (I can think of a few reasons, but will not mention them due to personal wisdom in searching for a quiet life.)

There is no doubt salaries in pro sports have gotten outrageous. The discussion is really about the justification of the pay. It's not apples to apples.

 

[Rogue219]

Man United transfers since 2016.

Paul Pogba £89m
Romelu Lukaku £75m
Alexis Sanchez £500k a week
Fred £52m
Aaron Wan-Bissaka £50m
Harry Maguire £85m

 

[notredomer23]

Pulisic 2 goals and a drawn penalty in an 8 minute span the other day against a good RB Salzburg team.

 

[notredomer23]

Looking likely that Weah and Sargent are going to be day 1 starters for Lille and Werder at striker. And we got stuck with Gyasi Zardes in the Gold Cup

 

[NDMIA]

I think Füllkrug and Sargent will be competing for Striker at Bremen. Sargent has had a really good preseason. At worst he’ll have some games as the first sub off the bench. He’s gonna get a lot of game time this season most likely which is incredibly exciting for a 19yr old in the Bundesliga. Weah has a really good shot at being an everyday starter cause Lille just had a massive sell off of 3 of their top guys at forward positions so playing time definitely opened up big time for Weah to step in. He does have another talented youngster that Lille just bought named Osimhen but in the last friendly I think they both played up front in a 4-4-2 formation and looked good (might’ve been Remy). Either way, chances look good for both to get into 30-40 games this season and that would be huge playing in the top 5 leagues in the world.

 

[IrishLion]

So tell me about Andrew Gutman, Acamp

 

[notredomer23]

So tell me about Andrew Gutman, Acamp

Not ACamp, but if he went to the MLS draft he would have been a top 3 pick. So that's a good loan option for Cincy.

 

[NDMIA]

Another USMNT nugget. Zack Steffen has now played every minute of the last 3 friendlies for Fortuna Düsseldorf. His competitor Rensing (35yr Old captain I believe) went down with an injury and that’s made Steffen and the #4 GK (some youth prospect) the main targets for the starting job. It should be Steffen starting likely almost all of Fortuna’s Bundesliga games which is very exciting for the USMNT starting goalie. Even if they’ll be in a relegation battle all season, Steffen will be playing starting minutes in the Bundesliga which is fantastic. Better than the backup at Man City where he’d maybe play 5-10 games if he could beat out Claudio Bravo which isn’t a sure thing.

 

[ACamp1900]

So tell me about Andrew Gutman, Acamp

I'm learning too man, he just came to us. Celtic hasn't had an American in a long ass time, hopefully he changes that long term.

 

[ACamp1900]

So Rangers won their opener with a last second goal against Killie and the fans invaded the pitch like they just won a CL Semi or something. So now all of Scotland is crumbling and the SPFL is going to get even more draconian... fun times up north.